A sad day...

[jet_man1969]

I worked in Detroit for a couple of years and housing was crazy expensive and it took a big wage to live a middle class life style. Now that average house cost 18,000 dollars it will not take as much money to live a middle class life.

[FreeBird]

I'll stick with my built in America Toyota. I never liked the Mexican or Canadian built "American products."

[AcworthDad]

PS dad....... it's NOT true about the UAW workers working for Asian plants...... they REFUSE to hire them. Just ask the one's trying to get a job at West Pointe Kia....... they aren't having any part of it!

 

Understand. They would have to revoke their union status and that is what I meant.

[mrshoward]

You actually think they would not have - you don't pay attention much do you?

 

I pay attention to reputable economists.

 

Not the fear mongering rhetoric of ideological politicians...

[bvrat5199]

I'll stick with my built in America Toyota. I never liked the Mexican or Canadian built "American products."

 

The big 3 employee more Americans then any foriegn company. This isn't a hard concept to understand.

 

I pay attention to reputable economists.

 

Not the fear mongering rhetoric of ideological politicians...

 

Funny. Most reputable economist agreed that the banks and auto industry were headed for failure (not ALL, but a lot). The disagreement came in if the gov't should bail them out or not.

[FreeBird]

"...assets of $82.3 billion, and liabilities of $172.8 billion."

 

Do the math. I guess it was long over due - mismanagement strikes again.

[bvrat5199]

As does the gov't CAFE standards from the 70s are a big part of this problem, not to mention the breaks that foriegn car companies are given in building and selling their product here that American companies aren't given overseas (this last part isn't just an auto industry issue)

[lotstodo]

While the unemployment figures are daunting, I seriously doubt that they would have been any different 6 months and 50 billion dollars ago. The rightful owners of GM would have gotten equity in the new company equal to their percentage of ownership, the company would be rid of a large percentage of the horrendous legacy costs that have been preserved under the "new GM", and the government wouldn't be in the car business. The union would have negotiated a deal similar to the one that they will currently have going forward.

 

The whole mess is a huge shame compounded by Government involvement. The Government won't be able to resist forcing GM to make cars that are not ready for market and that few people want, leading to deeper taxpayer subsidies going forward for decades to come.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Lots To Do

[mrshoward]

Funny. Most reputable economist agreed that the banks and auto industry were headed for failure (not ALL, but a lot). The disagreement came in if the gov't should bail them out or not.

 

And many economists contend that through this "failure" of bankruptcy

new viable companies would have emerged without government intervention.

 

Look at how GM was created from the beginning...

 

Several "failing" companies were merged to form a long successful empire... no intervention necessary.

 

Times change, companies go out of business everyday, and new companies are created from the ashes.

 

Yes people losing jobs is very sad... regions go boom and bust... happens all the time throughout our history.

 

New companies and economic patterns emerge, and America forges ahead into a brave new future.

 

Free market capitalism 101.

 

 

 

 

[smitty]

You are assuming that both industries would have collapsed without copious government infusions of cash...

 

Do you really think we will survive a QUADRUPLE DEFICIT and HYPERINFLATION ?

 

I have a hunch that all this bailout money won't lead to inflation.....OK, I'm hoping it won't. Much of the bailout money is being thrown into a black hole isn't it? If it is, it isn't entering the economy and if it isn't entering the economy, I don't see how there can be the "free money" influx that inevitably leads to inflation.

 

 

[ThornwoodMom]

While the unemployment figures are daunting, I seriously doubt that they would have been any different 6 months and 50 billion dollars ago. The rightful owners of GM would have gotten equity in the new company equal to their percentage of ownership, the company would be rid of a large percentage of the horrendous legacy costs that have been preserved under the "new GM", and the government wouldn't be in the car business. The union would have negotiated a deal similar to the one that they will currently have going forward.

 

The whole mess is a huge shame compounded by Government involvement. The Government won't be able to resist forcing GM to make cars that are not ready for market and that few people want, leading to deeper taxpayer subsidies going forward for decades to come.

^That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Although I still have hope that somehow some common sense will prevail.

[jeassey]

The President is having a press conference on this.

 

Many of the experts have stated GM should have been allowed to work through it themselves without interference from the government. It is the way the country has always been run.

 

 

If my memory serves me correct; the car manufacturers went to the hill looking for a handout. I also agree there should have never been a bailout. Capitalism should have been allowed to work in this instance.

[Cathyhelms]

And many economists contend that through this "failure" of bankruptcy

new viable companies would have emerged without government intervention.

 

Look at how GM was created from the beginning...

 

Several "failing" companies were merged to form a long successful empire... no intervention necessary.

 

Times change, companies go out of business everyday, and new companies are created from the ashes.

 

Yes people losing jobs is very sad... regions go boom and bust... happens all the time throughout our history.

 

New companies and economic patterns emerge, and America forges ahead into a brave new future.

 

Free market capitalism 101.

 

Air Tran would be a classic example, most were/are former Eastern employees. They certainly know what not to do.

 

[ihaveadog]

Show me one person that makes that for sweeping the floor. You may want to look at how this "huge" 25 dollar an hour salary is calculated first.

 

This affects more then just the line workers by the way. It's actually the middle managers in the offices that are going to be hurt the worst. They have no pension, at least not anymore.

 

There were 'janitors' at the Doraville plant that were making over $100k a year.

[mrshoward]

I have a hunch that all this bailout money won't lead to inflation.....OK, I'm hoping it won't. Much of the bailout money is being thrown into a black hole isn't it? If it is, it isn't entering the economy and if it isn't entering the economy, I don't see how there can be the "free money" influx that inevitably leads to inflation.

 

The treasury has doubled the amount of circulating currency in just a few short months.

 

When confidence begins to recover all of those devalued greenbacks will hit the market at once.

 

The Feds will keep interest rates low for fear of maintaining liquidity in the credit markets.

 

It is a recipe for disaster...

 

[xxrsellars]

Sad day for the real owners who had the company taken away from them by the Obama Administration, the workers who will lose their jobs, and for the tax payers who have to pay for the bailout money that could just as well have been burned!

 

We will soon have no choice in the kind of car that is available to us to buy!

 

Does this Administration want a complete economic collapse?

 

 

This Administration is on the march for this country to become a pure Socialist State.

[AcworthDad]

This Administration is on the march for this country to become a pure Socialist State.

 

Surprise?!!?

[EagleWings]

This Administration is on the march for this country to become a pure Socialist State.

Careful that you don't affend WT, Dallas Red, Cuteyellowbug, Pubby, surepip, and a few others.

 

[AcworthDad]

Careful that you don't affend WT, Dallas Red, Cuteyellowbug, Pubby, surepip, and a few others.

 

Ah, what the heck. Call a socialist a socialist. Obama is a Socialist.

[lotstodo]

Ah, what the heck. Call a socialist a socialist. Obama is a Socialist.

The fact that the kid running the show at GM now is an avowed Global Social Democratist with no management experience, not even a lemonade stand, and whose last "job' was at a socialist think tank should tell you something. That something doesn't exactly instill confidence in his decisions. I hate to see GM ruined in the name of Government Mandated Motors.

[tow2topgun]

Gotta love people that run their mouth based on what they hear on the news. You want some people to talk to about their "25 dollars an hour" they would like to know where the rest of their paycheck has been these past years, that is for sure.

Daddy don't make 25 bucks an hour? Or I guess the more accurate question is did he not used to??? Awww

Don't start it and there won't be none! Runnin of the mouth that is.

[swit57]

Show me one person that makes that for sweeping the floor. You may want to look at how this "huge" 25 dollar an hour salary is calculated first.

 

This affects more then just the line workers by the way. It's actually the middle managers in the offices that are going to be hurt the worst. They have no pension, at least not anymore.

 

 

Wake up !I had friends in New York working for G.M. he worked at the Delevan Ave plant and bragged how he would go in, load the heat treat ovens for 2 hours and then sleep the rest of the night. POOR POOR Auto worker. This is the exact cause of their downfall and good for them.

[DSCRealEstate]

I suspect that the UAW is the major cause of the problem with the US auto manufacturing market. Their labor rates are not competitive. However, I would guess that at least some former UAW workers, who were laid off, are now final assembling Japanese cars. I want the best for my money and that excludes all Asian cars. My 12 year old Crown Vic is running just fine, thank you. My 42 year old Dodge and 40 year old Plymouth are appreciating in value. I do not see much in the way of collector interest directed at Asian cars.

 

I agree. My 1994 Buick Park Avenue Ultra is a great automobile. When was the last time you saw a 1994 Toyota, Nissan or Mitsubishi? Hyundais were junk. I don't think Kia was on the American scene quite yet. The Sephia was quite forgettable.

 

Everyone gives GM such a hard time. GM built vehicles people wanted. The best SUVs around. They were profitable. So, what's a company to do? Build vehicles that people want that are profitable? I was in the auto biz selling GM products for a stretch and that's all I heard. Trucks trucks trucks. I want a truck.

 

What brought this thing down was a perfect storm of a credit crisis and high gas prices. Add in a very large corporation that couldn't adjust quick enough to a market that fell off the table and the result is disaster. They did, however, in the last few years, give their division heads more autonomy. But in the end, it was the greedy punk lenders going deep with sub-prime and oil speculators that brought this company and country to its knees. If gas was what it was a year ago, I hate to think how much worse things would be. Gordon Dekko said "greed is good"...yeah, right.

 

The UAW had an effect. I saw retirees that came out of low grade jobs making $6000 a month with full health benefits. GM was a good place to work. The company just can't support that kind of atmosphere anymore. Time to re-group and pay 25-35 an hour. Lots of people would take those jobs today. Put all the plants in right to work states. Somebody turn out the light, when all the manufacturing leaves the North.

 

GM vehicles are some of best designed and best built. They have SUVs (Traverse, Acadia, Enclave and Outlook) that get excellent gas mileage for a 6000 pound vehicle. The Volt will come to market and put the fear in Opec. Nothing comes close to OnStar. The Japanese still can't build a full size truck that matches the Americans. Give me a GMC Sierra any day.

 

The demise of Saturn deeply saddens me. It was always a different kind of car company. It was a division that made excellent products (the Astra was a fine little car) and had core values to make the sales process the best experience for the consumer. When a customer bought a Saturn (most dealerships) , they would cover it up with a satin red cover and do a presentation and unveiling at delivery. In the end, it was too much duplication with other GM models. Too bad they couldn't duplicate the sales process.

 

So. I guess it's in style to beat up on GM. They only gave us the best American cars for many years. I hope they rise again. We need GM. I will buy another Buick at some point.

 

 

[bvrat5199]

Wake up !I had friends in New York working for G.M. he worked at the Delevan Ave plant and bragged how he would go in, load the heat treat ovens for 2 hours and then sleep the rest of the night. POOR POOR Auto worker. This is the exact cause of their downfall and good for them.

 

Then your friend is a lazy ass and a big part of the problem just because he was a worthless POS doesn't mean all autoworkers are. Sounds like you keep some great company.

 

Daddy don't make 25 bucks an hour? Or I guess the more accurate question is did he not used to??? Awww

Don't start it and there won't be none! Runnin of the mouth that is.

 

you really are some kind of ass. I know you take pride in it, but honestly are you a man or a jr. high aged kid?

 

I agree. My 1994 Buick Park Avenue Ultra is a great automobile. When was the last time you saw a 1994 Toyota, Nissan or Mitsubishi? Hyundais were junk. I don't think Kia was on the American scene quite yet. The Sephia was quite forgettable.

 

Everyone gives GM such a hard time. GM built vehicles people wanted. The best SUVs around. They were profitable. So, what's a company to do? Build vehicles that people want that are profitable? I was in the auto biz selling GM products for a stretch and that's all I heard. Trucks trucks trucks. I want a truck.

 

What brought this thing down was a perfect storm of a credit crisis and high gas prices. Add in a very large corporation that couldn't adjust quick enough to a market that fell off the table and the result is disaster. They did, however, in the last few years, give their division heads more autonomy. But in the end, it was the greedy punk lenders going deep with sub-prime and oil speculators that brought this company and country to its knees. If gas was what it was a year ago, I hate to think how much worse things would be. Gordon Dekko said "greed is good"...yeah, right.

 

The UAW had an effect. I saw retirees that came out of low grade jobs making $6000 a month with full health benefits. GM was a good place to work. The company just can't support that kind of atmosphere anymore. Time to re-group and pay 25-35 an hour. Lots of people would take those jobs today. Put all the plants in right to work states. Somebody turn out the light, when all the manufacturing leaves the North.

 

GM vehicles are some of best designed and best built. They have SUVs (Traverse, Acadia, Enclave and Outlook) that get excellent gas mileage for a 6000 pound vehicle. The Volt will come to market and put the fear in Opec. Nothing comes close to OnStar. The Japanese still can't build a full size truck that matches the Americans. Give me a GMC Sierra any day.

 

The demise of Saturn deeply saddens me. It was always a different kind of car company. It was a division that made excellent products (the Astra was a fine little car) and had core values to make the sales process the best experience for the consumer. When a customer bought a Saturn (most dealerships) , they would cover it up with a satin red cover and do a presentation and unveiling at delivery. In the end, it was too much duplication with other GM models. Too bad they couldn't duplicate the sales process.

 

So. I guess it's in style to beat up on GM. They only gave us the best American cars for many years. I hope they rise again. We need GM. I will buy another Buick at some point.

 

Excellent post from someone that gets it.

[ihaveadog]

Wake up !I had friends in New York working for G.M. he worked at the Delevan Ave plant and bragged how he would go in, load the heat treat ovens for 2 hours and then sleep the rest of the night. POOR POOR Auto worker. This is the exact cause of their downfall and good for them.

 

Then your friend is a lazy ass and a big part of the problem just because he was a worthless POS doesn't mean all autoworkers are. Sounds like you keep some great company.

 

That type of behavior came more out of the UAW than the worker. The workers took advantage of it. A UAW worker can get fired for doing such things as swit57's friend. The worker files a grievance and would be back on the job the next day or two with back pay for the time he was fired. Come to work drunk, same thing, the worker would then go a few AA meetings and problem solved. Those two examples and more are part of the reasons the automakers are in trouble.

[gpatt0n]

 

(rays @ Jun 1 2009, 04:52 PM) *

This Administration is on the march for this country to become a pure Socialist State.

 

 

Careful that you don't affend WT, Dallas Red, Cuteyellowbug, Pubby, surepip, and a few others.

 

Surprise:

 

We've been a socialist state since long before 1932. There is no such thing as pure capitalist state. Allusion to said 'capitalist' state is as wrong as describing our form of republican government as a pure democracy.

 

The closest we've come in modern times to pure capitalistic societies are in countries ruled by a dictator who, by being the state, acts as a 'capitalist' by maximizing his take (primarily through corruption) and avoiding costs that don't meet the 'private' interests of the dictator.

 

For instance, there was no public school system in Iraq. Rather education was provided by the mosques through madrases. There may have been a public hospital in Baghdad but obviously, Saddam preferred investing in conventional weapons to 'anything' for his people. Heck, Saddam didn't even properly maintain the primary enterprise of his desert nation - the oil industry's infrastructure - because of his private interests was to maximize his profit from oil and minimize his costs. That is how pure capitalism works and why it is not practiced in any country in the world ... save totalitarian dictatorships. .

 

As proof, even those in the Reagan administration worked hard to forge an answer to the problem it confronted with social security in 1980s. And while they gave capitalism lip service through PR - remember the movie character, "Gordon Gekko" said that greed is good - social spending continued to be a part of every budget put forth by Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, GHWB and GWB.

 

What I hear you guys suggesting is that the expeditious actions of the current administration in response to crisis circumstances is some kind of silly new excursion into socialism. Yep, I get the idea you think that we're somehow headed toward some kind of sterile 1970s' vision of pure socialism insults the intelligence of most pcom readers. What is happening may - to some - sound like socialism but you'll not find any images of gray jump suits, black and white television and yellow Yugo's where we're going at all.

 

And then you, Blazing Saddles, suggest that I would be offended by the silly suggesting that the goal of the administration is to move the nation toward some 1950's black and version of American socialism that is as rigid and programmed as a scene from Pleasantville.

 

Let me say flatly that this silliness does not offend me. No, I'm not offended at all. I'm ROFLMAO becasue the future we're headed for is so different from what you guys imagine that to call it socialism is like saying the Rapture was on 9/11/01 and today we're all really in the pit of hell and Ithy is really Satan.

 

Blazing Saddles, things happen awfully fast and there is a lot going on that, if you look at it with a closed mind, may make you wonder. But think for a moment about the rate of change in this day and time. I mean the combined knowledge of mankind, which at one time, took centuries to double, now doubles in something like a year or less.

 

To think we're somehow going back or backwards to some failed idea of socialism is silly. I mean, good luck selling that notion because anyone who has a grasp of what is really going on knows that the things that are happening now, whether it was the delay of GM going bankrupt or Chrysler coming out of bankruptcy just had to happen and actually represents a successful outcome of the issue.

 

I mean if I were you guys, I'd be more concerned about the Hulu alien conspiracy.

 

pubby

 

PS: One of you guys talked about the Weimar republic (Germany) and the hyper-inflation that they endured before Hitler came to office. Think for a minute folks ... how did Hitler get them out of this sticky wicket. Did he 'spend more?' ... Absolutely ... he spent like a maniac on armaments in the 1930's ... The 1936 Olympics Stadiums also being built in the years subsequent the hyperinflation. But the point is that tanks, machine guns, helments, uniforms, concentration camps, new weapons and weapons systems all were bought and in grand numbers by the German people paying taxes ... high taxes (much higher than ours) ... to support government spending on public works and militarism of the Third Reich.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EagleWings]

And then you, Blazing Saddles, suggest that I would be offended by the silly suggesting that the goal of the administration is to move the nation toward some 1950's black and version of American socialism that is as rigid and programmed as a scene from Pleasantville.

 

Let me say flatly that this silliness does not offend me. No, I'm not offended at all. I'm ROFLMAO becasue the future we're headed for is so different from what you guys imagine that to call it socialism is like saying the Rapture was on 9/11/01 and today we're all really in the pit of hell and Ithy is really Satan.

 

That's alot of laughing.

 

PS: One of you guys talked about the Weimar republic (Germany) and the hyper-inflation that they endured before Hitler came to office. Think for a minute folks ... how did Hitler get them out of this sticky wicket. Did he 'spend more?' ... Absolutely ... he spent like a maniac on armaments in the 1930's ... The 1936 Olympics Stadiums also being built in the years subsequent the hyperinflation. But the point is that tanks, machine guns, helments, uniforms, concentration camps, new weapons and weapons systems all were bought and in grand numbers by the German people paying taxes ... high taxes (much higher than ours) ... to support government spending on public works and militarism of the Third Reich.

 

Great analogy their pub"I have too much smoke in my eyes"by. Your racist dreamland ended up where it should have. Defeated. America can only hope this administration will follow a similiar path so we can return to freedom. Enjoy your little Germany for the time being for one day soon, the monumental EAGLE will soar soon enough.

 

[gpatt0n]

That's alot of laughing.

 

 

 

Great analogy their pub"I have too much smoke in my eyes"by. Your racist dreamland ended up where it should have. Defeated. America can only hope this administration will follow a similiar path so we can return to freedom. Enjoy your little Germany for the time being for one day soon, the monumental EAGLE will soar soon enough.

 

That would be a lot of laughing BS.

 

I do have to take umbrage at your suggestion that the successor to the Wiemar republic was in any way MY dreamland. That's hogwash ...but it totally in line with those on the right whose favorite ploy is to accuse their opponent with their own motivations.

 

The sole point was that you folks were railing against the spending habits of the Weimar Republic and sought to suggest that, like citizens there, folks would need a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread because of the inflation that is coming. You confuse the effort to maintain some semblence of a manufacturing sector in the nation as a national security issue worthy of being addressed. The suggestion was current deficit spending would have us end up having to spend literally a million dollars for a loaf of bread.

 

Of course that is fear mongering of the lowest sort but, hey, I've come to expect that kind of hyperbole in the politics forum.

 

All that I pointed out was that the Third Reich, which took on the task of rebuilding Germany after the Weimar Republic failed ... wasn't fiscally responsible (as in balancing a budget) but rather spent like a drunken sailor on building a military machine they hoped would allow them to conquer the world and prove that a party of blond-haired blue-eyed white men was superior. Oh, and like those here who a staunch members of the right, those in the Third Reich never met a military project they weren't eager to borrow money to fund.

 

Given that I'm not nearly the fan of defense spending that you and others on the right are, I'll have to suggest that pre-WWII Germany is certainly closer to your vision than mine.

 

pubby

 

 

[tow2topgun]

Pubby you claim that the republican party has spent into oblivion but are the democrats not doing just that right now? They are spending more now than any other party has at anytime in history.

[smitty]

Pubby you claim that the republican party has spent into oblivion but are the democrats not doing just that right now? They are spending more now than any other party has at anytime in history.

 

The Left's response to Socialism's conspicuous failures the world over is that the right Leftists haven't been in charge yet. Thus far it's obvious that they haven't known who the right ones are. The only thing they "know" is that it'll never work when conservatives are in the way. They do the wildest things to the perception their own characters and grant the widest concessions to their politicians to give peace a change etc.. They're probably comforted with the notion that they so deeply mean well that things can't go terribly wrong.

 

[NewsJunky]

Pubby you claim that the republican party has spent into oblivion but are the democrats not doing just that right now? They are spending more now than any other party has at anytime in history.

The Republicans at least tried to respect the ACTUAL ownership of GM and tried to help in a way that did not take it and make the government and the Unions the owners! What this Democratic controlled government is doing now is putting the government in control of what was once free enterprise!

[bvrat5199]

The Republicans at least tried to respect the ACTUAL ownership of GM and tried to help in a way that did not take it and make the government and the Unions the owners! What this Democratic controlled government is doing now is putting the government in control of what was once free enterprise!

 

The "free enterprise" of the auto industry ended with CAFE standards in the 70s.

[NewsJunky]

The "free enterprise" of the auto industry ended with CAFE standards in the 70s.

I guess I have to agree with you about the CAFE standards!

[EagleWings]

Good lord people. You all are talking to pubby right now as if he is awake. Don't you all realize what time it is? The gov't alarm clock doesn't begin to buzz until the noon hour. Give him a couple more hours and maybe you will get a response. I'm sure it will involve a comment that contains racism and how GREAT Germany was prior to WWII.

[gpatt0n]

The Republicans at least tried to respect the ACTUAL ownership of GM and tried to help in a way that did not take it and make the government and the Unions the owners! What this Democratic controlled government is doing now is putting the government in control of what was once free enterprise!

 

Huh?

 

The Republicans response was to let them go bankrupt now - wham bam in the middle of the financial crises and when the economy was teetering on the brink of collapse.

 

All the Dems have done here is give folks time to sell out of their GM stock (if they hadn't already) before it went to zero value.

 

There is, additionally, an understanding that this corporate entity was the victim of a perfect storm of collapsing economy, highly difficult financial cirumstance, overwhelming pension and health benefit costs from its legacy (and retired) workers.

 

What you guys fail to recognize is that if the factories were idled and the capital equipment were idled and scrapped, if we were to find ourselves in a situation like we were in 1942, we'd be SOL. It was a lot easier to take the existing automobile factories and adapt them to manufacture jeeps, tanks and aircraft. Having productive manufacturing capacity is critical to our national security.

 

I will say that the statements by Obama that the government will begin divesting itself of the stock of the company to recover its investment in making it possible for the company to bridge the time promises respect for our PREFERRED way of doing things.

 

If, in the event that the government decides not begin to divest its self of the stock as we move forward - something I would be willing to wager upon as I think I'll win - remind me of this. I think that Obama said they'd begin selling stock on the private market sometime in 2011, if not before.

 

pubby

 

PS: My confidence is there because you got to know that they'll want to spend that money again ... and the only way to get it is to sell the frigging stock.

 

PPS: Blazing saddles ... I didn't say that Germany was great before the second world war. What I do note is that in a relatively short period of time, Hitler and his ilk moved from the utter chaos of the Weimar Republic to the ordered and efficiency of a society organized along military heirarcy I will note, however, that some folks like Prescott Bush (GHWB's dad and GWB grand dad) did ... and was actually tied into the Nazi's as their "American banker." Many others found the 'turnaround' in the German economy from its depths in the Wiemar republic as remarkable. Here's a brief article from http://www.historycooperative.org/journals...51/pauwels.html

 

Fans of the Führer

 

 

Mussolini enjoyed a great deal of admiration in corporate America from the moment he came to power in a coup that was hailed stateside as "a fine young revolution." 2 Hitler, on the other hand, sent mixed signals. Like their German counterparts, American businessmen long worried about the intentions and the methods of this plebeian upstart, whose ideology was called National Socialism, whose party identified itself as a workers' party, and who spoke ominously of bringing about revolutionary change. 3 Some high-profile leaders of corporate America, however, such as Henry Ford liked and admired the Führer at an early stage. 4 Other precocious Hitler-admirers were press lord Randolph Hearst and Irénée Du Pont, head of the Du Pont trust, who according to Charles Higham, had already "keenly followed the career of the future Führer in the 1920s" and supported him financially. 5 Eventually, most American captains of industry learned to love the Führer. 2

It is often hinted that fascination with Hitler was a matter of personalities, a matter of psychology. Authoritarian personalities supposedly could not help but like and admire a man who preached the virtues of the "leadership principle" and practised what he preached first in his party and then in Germany as a whole. Although he cites other factors as well, it is essentially in such terms that Edwin Black, author of the otherwise excellent book IBM and the Holocaust, explains the case of IBM chairman Thomas J. Watson, who met Hitler on a number of occasions in the 1930s and became fascinated with Germany's authoritarian new ruler. But it is in the realm of political economy, not psychology, that one can most profitably understand why corporate America embraced Hitler. 3

In the 1920s many big American corporations enjoyed sizeable investments in Germany. IBM established a German subsidiary, Dehomag, before World War I; in the 1920s General Motors took over Germany's largest car manufacturer, Adam Opel AG; and Ford founded a branch plant, later known as the Ford-Werke, in Cologne. Other US firms contracted strategic partnerships with German companies. Standard Oil of New Jersey — today's Exxon — developed intimate links with the German trust IG Farben. By the early 1930s, an élite of about twenty of the largest American corporations had a German connection including Du Pont, Union Carbide, Westinghouse, General Electric, Gilette, Goodrich, Singer, Eastman Kodak, Coca-Cola, IBM, and ITT. Finally, many American law firms, investment companies, and banks were deeply involved in America's investment offensive in Germany, among them the renowned Wall Street law firm Sullivan & Cromwell, and the banks J. P. Morgan and Dillon, Read and Company, as well as the Union Bank of New York, owned by Brown Brothers & Harriman. The Union Bank was intimately linked with the financial and industrial empire of German steel magnate Thyssen, whose financial support enabled Hitler to come to power. This bank was managed by Prescott Bush, grandfather of George W. Bush. Prescott Bush was allegedly also an eager supporter of Hitler, funnelled money to him via Thyssen, and in return made considerable profits by doing business with Nazi Germany; with the profits he launched his son, the later president, in the oil business.

 

pubby

.

[NewsJunky]

Huh?

 

The Republicans response was to let them go bankrupt now - wham bam in the middle of the financial crises and when the economy was teetering on the brink of collapse.

 

All the Dems have done here is give folks time to sell out of their GM stock (if they hadn't already) before it went to zero value.

 

 

 

 

pubby

.

The Republicans wanted to see a structured bankruptcy to begin with and all of this bail out money would not have been poured down a hole! We now have bankruptcy anyway and the company was taken from the share holders and is now the property of the government and the unions!

[rednekkhikkchikk]

If my memory serves me correct; the car manufacturers went to the hill looking for a handout

 

That is correct.

 

In fact, I believe in the beginning, the Obama administration was leaning toward bankruptcy and GM (and Chrysler, for that matter) wanted no part of it; they wanted the money instead. I'm pretty sure they knew in advance the consequences of taking the money as well, so it's not as though they were forced by the government to take the money and give up ownership of the company.

 

Selective memory, ain't it convenient, though?

[DSCRealEstate]

The new GM ad campaign is right on target. They'll come out of this thing a stronger and more efficient company.

 

GM became a bloated and over-run company. They paid dearly for some poor product and labor decisions. One example was bringing the Saturn Astra to market. Unforseen market conditions blew this one out of the water. Nothing wrong with the car. In fact, it's one of the best made in the world. It's hugely popular in Europe as an Opel Astra. Problem was, it was built in Antwerp, Belgium. About the time they brought it to market here, the US dollar dropped in value and there was a severe trade difficiency, making it too expensive here. It's kind of hard to sell a $17,000 compact here. The dealers dumped the price late last year to move them off the lot and took a big loss in the process. There was talk of building the Astra here, but it's too late now. So, if you have a Saturn Astra, it may become a collector car.

 

There was too much duplication in the product line. They were essentially competing with themselves at times. For example, there are 4 nameplates for the GMC Acadia. Buick, Saturn and Chevy have one.

 

It costs a ton of money in marketing costs alone to run a division. So, I guess Pontiac is the odd man out. I shed a tear. I've had 7 Pontiacs in my lifetime. I was in a Pontiac showroom recently and saw a $41,000 G-8. I just can't see people paying that much for a Pontiac. Maybe a monster retro Trans Am or GTO. But not a G-8.

 

The upside is that GM has made great strides in technology in recent years. OnStar, advanced bluetooth and electric vehicles are some of the things that GM excels in. The Volt is coming and it will put the fear in OPEC. It's about time. They have a 6 cylinder hybrid that will blow the doors off anything else and still get phenominal mileage. This will make their SUVs more appealing. The Buick line will see some new models that will capture the public's fancy. Buick Scottish heritage will swell with pride.

 

GM will be back. It's an American company. Americans don't lay down and die.

[NewsJunky]

This is what happened!!!

 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cd00d2c6-4ee2-11...144feabdc0.html

 

The administration took a tragic situation and turned it into an expensive mess to pay a political debt. It wasted billions of dollars over many months delaying GM’s filing and then implicitly put itself on the hook for many billions more. The financial, political and social echoes of that decision will be with us for a long time. In short, they blew it.

 

 

[bvrat5199]

Hey the good news is they are selling Hummer to a Company in China so soon we will be able to buy the H3 at the local Wal-Mart.