The sad truth about the regional tsplost

[LPPT]

If you watched the video you know I had the chance to talk to Scott Green about the tsplost.

 

I learned a lot about how road work is funded.

I also believe that because this was an election year that this failed.

We had too many people that put winning an election before the good of the people.

The facts clearly point to legislatures all over the state that don't trust their constituents enough to give them all the facts.

Or maybe they thought we would turn on them if we knew them I don't know.

 

The fact sheets used to market the Tsplost as people suspected really covered up some facts that were more important. I don't expect to change anyone's mind but you do deserve to hear some of the things we discussed.

 

The first thing that you need to know is the tax breaks given to industry was only 2-3 percent of the over all revenue from fuel. Everyone gets the same exemptions you only pay the penny on 5000 dollars of large expenditures.

 

The second thing you need to know is that those of you that object to paying for public transportation and express ways is the bulk of what the feds give back of our money is earmarked for those things.

 

Know that most of our road improvement comes out of the general county funds, not what we get back from the state of our fuel tax.

 

For all of you that wonder why 92 has not been widened in 20 years since the project was started, it is a state project.

Formulas are used to study our roads and traffic then sent to the state along with thousands more from all over the state. It is then rated by need.

We will never be able to show a greater need than Cobb and Atlanta. The truth is don't hold your breath.

 

We fortunately will see the work completed on 92, but without the tsplost we will never see any significant road improvement in Paulding.

We have an existing splost, it is not a tplost, this is divided among the schools, general county maintenance, and road work.

 

People didn't think shaving off 5 minutes of a commute was enough, what was not said is what will happen without it. You can not predict future growth in a recession, but what there is of it will make them longer.

I am not sure why the situation was not truthfully presented well outside of region 3, perhaps it was the anger and frustration that people would experience when they knew that they would not see their tax dollars coming into their region no matter how much gas taxes went up.

 

I was very depressed yesterday after talking to Scott and learning the truth of transportation funding in the state of Georgia.

The only way we will ever see significant road improvement is through a Tsplost if not this one, then another one.

This one is absolutely no different than had we done one locally were the funds had gone into an account and only used for road improvement.

The one we are voting down would have been better for us because we would have paid about 12% in and gotten 14% back through the region.

 

All of the safeguards that we were told are there I will give you the link.

I am done discussing it, it is going to fail for lack of understanding what it was and why it was the way it was. As I said the entire issue is very depressing, from the reality of our tax dollars not coming back to us and the fact that road improvement is not going to happen.

 

http://www.grta.org/about_us/pdf/HB277.pdf

 

PS I looked over the maps for the projects yesterday, they were amazing in what they were going to do within our county. The plans put together by Scott and his people showed that they live and work here. They knew what was important to the people in every corner of their hometown.

 

Even if this does not pass, we have a great group of folks working for the PDOT that put our quality of life first in every project on that list.

[missytater]

I do not have time to watch this entire video. Is there somewhere that you can just see the maps of what they "are going to do with the money"?

[Coppertop's Pop]

I voted NO and it felt GREAT! just sayin'

[thedeerslayer]

Everyone already pays app.27 cents per gallon of gas on taxes.On a 30 gallon fill up that is over $8 in taxes every time I fill up...Where is that money going?

 

I have not gotten a raise in over 4 years.....and the state wants me to vote them a raise?

[champsbbcoach]

The biggest reason for the tax not passing is total distrust of the political machine we have running local towns, cities, counties, states and the federal gov't. Too many lies, too much propaganda.

[LPPT]

I do not have time to watch this entire video. Is there somewhere that you can just see the maps of what they "are going to do with the money"?

 

The maps are on my office computer and I will be glad to put them up when I get there this afternoon.

The by-passes are fantastic I got excited and sad at the same time knowing we would never see them done in our lifetime.

[halo 2]

Everyone already pays app.27 cents per gallon of gas on taxes.On a 30 gallon fill up that is over $8 in taxes every time I fill up...Where is that money going?

 

I have not gotten a raise in over 4 years.....and the state wants me to vote them a raise?

I understand that its a Tax.. and it is... the difference is that its a sales tax and those that go through our area help pay for this expense as well as us a penny at a time. I too am saddened that people just say.. TAX I VOTE NO.. instead of really looking at the projects and how they will benefit the county and us as well. When the federal economy was going full force there were taxes that were being paid down to the smaller DOT's to add to a very small budget to get things done locally. Could there be some financial things to save money with our government... YES but this is small in the scale of project costs to simply widen a road, or Create a proper "AND SAFE" intersection... What we fail to realize as a whole is that to do things properly "so when there is an accident and people try and sue the county/state" it takes a lot of extra money to assure that its properly built, timed, graded, drained and wind tested. Just adding a traffic signal to an existing intersection will have an estimated cost of over 90,000 dollars. When i started with PCDOT we had 2 traffic signals and when I left PCDOT we had 18 of them. Multiply this times 90,000 and you will see where Local Tax or TSPLOST specific taxes would greatly improve our roads and drive times. Think of how many minutes per day is spent at the Hwy 92& HWY78 intersection in Douglas county. This was going to be corrected by realigning the road and creating a tunnel UNDER the RR Tracks. Thats a LOT of money there.. I am not big on taxes and never will be. But when it comes to the greater good of the counties people "even if they dont realize it" or if its better for my family, environment, and drive times for everyone... Im good with that. Of course this is JMO and doesnt mean much.

[LPPT]

I understand that its a Tax.. and it is... the difference is that its a sales tax and those that go through our area help pay for this expense as well as us a penny at a time. I too am saddened that people just say.. TAX I VOTE NO.. instead of really looking at the projects and how they will benefit the county and us as well. When the federal economy was going full force there were taxes that were being paid down to the smaller DOT's to add to a very small budget to get things done locally. Could there be some financial things to save money with our government... YES but this is small in the scale of project costs to simply widen a road, or Create a proper "AND SAFE" intersection... What we fail to realize as a whole is that to do things properly "so when there is an accident and people try and sue the county/state" it takes a lot of extra money to assure that its properly built, timed, graded, drained and wind tested. Just adding a traffic signal to an existing intersection will have an estimated cost of over 90,000 dollars. When i started with PCDOT we had 2 traffic signals and when I left PCDOT we had 18 of them. Multiply this times 90,000 and you will see where Local Tax or TSPLOST specific taxes would greatly improve our roads and drive times. Think of how many minutes per day is spent at the Hwy 92& HWY78 intersection in Douglas county. This was going to be corrected by realigning the road and creating a tunnel UNDER the RR Tracks. Thats a LOT of money there.. I am not big on taxes and never will be. But when it comes to the greater good of the counties people "even if they dont realize it" or if its better for my family, environment, and drive times for everyone... Im good with that. Of course this is JMO and doesnt mean much.

 

The studies on 92 are complete and the money allocated by the state. That is why it is not on our local list, after 20 years the state is coming through with that one.

 

Scott and I talked extensively about hwy 61 especially from a safety point of view.

It has the highest fatality rate of any hwy in the county. The biggest factor in that is the lack of turning lanes. The state has been hesitant in doing the turning lanes even though it would lower the fatality rate. They hope to take it on as a full project with widening so that they would not have to rip out the work done on turning lanes. Without the tsplost we won't see any significant changes to it in our lifetime.

[lowrider]

And Nathan Deal announced yesterday he will do away with the GA 400 toll ( a campaign promise) just in time for the TSPLOST vote. Really? Like that's going to help.

 

And then he will use it for his re-election campaign. LOOK! I GOT RID OF THE 400 TOLL!

 

I'm sorry too Laurie but it's all politics and I'll be damed if I vote myself another tax.

 

I voted early and I voted NO.

 

And just to add: this TSPLOST really shows the

 

public distrust of government to do the right thing.

[LPPT]

Everyone already pays app.27 cents per gallon of gas on taxes.On a 30 gallon fill up that is over $8 in taxes every time I fill up...Where is that money going?

 

I have not gotten a raise in over 4 years.....and the state wants me to vote them a raise?

 

My understanding after I had the off camera conversation with Scott, is that it won't matter to the people of Paulding if we pay a dollar more a gallon in taxes we will never see it come here for the projects on that list. It is formulas and calculations that will keep us close to the bottom of that list indefinitely.

[mrshoward]

It is not a "lack of understanding" that compels me to vote NO,

it is a COMPLETE understanding of the FULL economic impact.

 

 

That Which Is Seen, And That Which Is Not Seen

[LPPT]

And Nathan Deal announced yesterday he will do away with the GA 400 toll ( a campaign promise) just in time for the TSPLOST vote. Really? Like that's going to help.

 

And then he will use it for his re-election campaign. LOOK! I GOT RID OF THE 400 TOLL!

 

I'm sorry too Laurie but it's all politics and I'll be damed if I vote myself another tax.

 

I voted early and I voted NO.

 

I am done trying to persuade anybody about this,I really don't care because this was a failure from the get go.

But I am going to make sure everyone knows the truth about transportation in Georgia.

 

It is not a "lack of understanding" that compels me to vote NO,

it is a COMPLETE understanding of the FULL economic impact.

 

 

That Which Is Seen, And That Which Is Not Seen

 

That has nothing to do with the fact that we are being force to pay a tax that we never see any benefit from.

And that was not the basis of the conversation about the tsplost as it should have been from the get go.

[halo 2]

I am done trying to persuade anybody about this,I really don't care because this was a failure from the get go.

But I am going to make sure everyone knows the truth about transportation in Georgia.

[/quote

 

 

Its sad that all we do in Paulding is vote NO on everything. No matter what it is.. If its a Vote... Its a NO... We dont want improvement and we dont want business here. We dont want sewers and water to support business or business parks.. PC VOTES NO... Its simple... No new roads, No Toll Roads, No funding, No,No, NO!!!!!!! And then we Citizens wonder why the ones voted in RAM SHIOT DOWN OUR THROATS without a vote if its possible... I understand it LTTP and I know that you and I can see past our typical views a lot of time for the betterment of the community. But were few and far between

[lowrider]

Again, it's total distrust of government and politicians to do the right thing.

 

In my case anyway. I would love to see progress and industry move to PAULDING but who's going to be in charge of the piggy bank?

 

Sidewalks to nowhere, a $65M courthouse with empty rooms and inferior products, an airport to where? And a movie studio for what?

 

Sorry.

[feelip]

Its sad that all we do in Paulding is vote NO on everything. No matter what it is.. If its a Vote... Its a NO... We dont want improvement and we dont want business here. We dont want sewers and water to support business or business parks.. PC VOTES NO... Its simple... No new roads, No Toll Roads, No funding, No,No, NO!!!!!!! And then we Citizens wonder why the ones voted in RAM SHIOT DOWN OUR THROATS without a vote if its possible... I understand it LTTP and I know that you and I can see past our typical views a lot of time for the betterment of the community. But were few and far between

 

Yeah BOY! You and LPPT are way the hell smarter than all us dumbass hillbillies. Now you have belittled me to the point of where I am going to vote yes for this wonderful tax. Because if you and LPPT say it is a good thing, who am I to argue?

 

Just kidding. I AM STILL VOTING NO. But I get a kick out of people that talk down their noses to me.

Edited July 20, 2012 by feelip

[FreeBird]

feelip, you would have been better to stick to your spot-lighting parkers activities in an effort to improve the county!

[halo 2]

Yeah BOY! You and LPPT are way the hell smarter than all us dumbass hillbillies. Now you have belittled me to the point of where I am going to vote yes for this wonderful tax. Because if you and LPPT say it is a good thing, who am I to argue?

 

Just kidding. I AM STILL VOTING NO. But I get a kick out of people that talk down their noses to me.

Just speaking in General.. I am not Book smarter than 75% of everyone here... I just realize the difference in taxing as a whole and how those taxes do not reach the local government. Ad I dont purposely look down my nose but please let me know if I am wrong in stating that PC CITIZENS vote NO for almost 95% of anything that could benefit the county? If you can, then i will apologize for that statement.. I am sorry for seeming like I am "smarter" because that wasnt my intention. Its just discouraging to see this place with tremendous potential to keep voting for no progress.

[WHITEY]

Just speaking in General.. I am not Book smarter than 75% of everyone here... I just realize the difference in taxing as a whole and how those taxes do not reach the local government. Ad I dont purposely look down my nose but please let me know if I am wrong in stating that PC CITIZENS vote NO for almost 95% of anything that could benefit the county? If you can, then i will apologize for that statement.. I am sorry for seeming like I am "smarter" because that wasnt my intention. Its just discouraging to see this place with tremendous potential to keep voting for no progress.

The paulding County Citizens voted for a Fire Tax Levy, Green Space,most recently for a County SPLOST that will provide for new roads, sidewalks,fire sations parks etc. ( I believe this has passed four times) A $ 120 million dollar School Bond, In the past couple of years voted to extend the Education SPLOST (I believe this also has passed four times) A permanent one cent sales tax.

Fact is the only thing that was voted down was the airport and the community center and we still got the airport. Did I miss something?

[halo 2]

The paulding County Citizens voted for a Fire Tax Levy, Green Space,most recently for a County SPLOST that will provide for new roads, sidewalks,fire sations parks etc. ( I believe this has passed four times) A $ 120 million dollar School Bond, In the past couple of years voted to extend the Education SPLOST (I believe this also has passed four times) A permanent one cent sales tax.

Fact is the only thing that was voted down was the airport and the community center and we still got the airport. Did I miss something?

The Privately funded Toll Road for Connecting 75 and I-20...

[WHITEY]

The Privately funded Toll Road for Connecting 75 and I-20...

No vote was ever taken on this issue

[Lady Raider]

I will be voting NO i do not care what they promise, we live on a road that we can not even get paved and it is a county maintained road... no matter how many tsplost or splost or taxes are passed we have lived here 30 years (on this road) and it has always been the same excuse* we do not have the money* if they have not had the money in 30 years they sure will not put it to good use when they do get it if they get it.. <_>

[LPPT]

I am not talking down to anyone and hope it is not being taken like that by anyone,I have worked very hard at researching this.I have worked hard to find the real facts behind a glossy marketing package that has failed miserably.

 

I think that it was cowardly not to tell the people the truth behind the lack of road improvement in every region but region 3.

[FreeBird]

I am not talking down to anyone and hope it is not being taken like that by anyone,I have worked very hard at researching this.I have worked hard to find the real facts behind a glossy marketing package that has failed miserably.

 

I think that it was cowardly not to tell the people the truth behind the lack of road improvement in every region but region 3.

 

 

I think you need to first take your beef with the elected officials that don't work hard enough for Paulding. Heath doesn't care about us. Braddock seems to be clueless and Maxwell is just a good ole guy that I don't think has done anything since being elected.

[feelip]

The paulding County Citizens voted for a Fire Tax Levy, Green Space,most recently for a County SPLOST that will provide for new roads, sidewalks,fire sations parks etc. ( I believe this has passed four times) A $ 120 million dollar School Bond, In the past couple of years voted to extend the Education SPLOST (I believe this also has passed four times) A permanent one cent sales tax.

Fact is the only thing that was voted down was the airport and the community center and we still got the airport. Did I miss something?

 

 

We did vote down the School Bond once. Then outside money was brought in by Jerry Shearin to force it on us on the second double jeopardy vote. Paulette Braddock played a pert in that as well. Cost Shearin his job but he made his owners happy.......for a minute.

[MrsB]

Everyone already pays app.27 cents per gallon of gas on taxes.On a 30 gallon fill up that is over $8 in taxes every time I fill up...Where is that money going?

 

I have not gotten a raise in over 4 years.....and the state wants me to vote them a raise?

Where does my car tax go every time I renew my tags? I hate it. Every year almost $500 we have to pay.

 

In TN it's $25 a year. No income tax, either. I'm voting NO.

[FreeBird]

 

In TN it's $25 a year. No income tax, either. I'm voting NO.

 

 

I was wondering about this one last night - 6% state tax plus %8 sales tax. In TN most areas are 9.75% sales tax. They still make it and have roads, etc.

[lowrider]

The Privately funded Toll Road for Connecting 75 and I-20...

 

 

I would have voted yes for that one, but we the taxpayers didn't get a chance.

[LisaC]

Let's see, we're voting for a TSPLOT that could raise about $8.4 BILLION over 10 years? Not a chance! The fatal flaw of the TSPLOST vote IMO is that what they are selling as traffic relief is, in reality, a bail out for MARTA and a funding mechanism for billion dollar mass transit projects that only 2% of us will ever use. 52% of the money is designated for rail transit projects, MANY of which are initial phases of multi-DECADE projects. The TSPLOST brazenly commits $600 million to bail out the existing MARTA system, a concept that the legislature intentionally tried to prohibit in passing the enabling act.

 

Even the AJC reported on May 20, 2012, that regional planners concede that the TSPLOST project list will do little to reduce commute times.

 

They need to take this one back to the drawing board...

[LPPT]

Let's see, we're voting for a TSPLOT that could raise about $8.4 BILLION over 10 years? Not a chance! The fatal flaw of the TSPLOST vote IMO is that what they are selling as traffic relief is, in reality, a bail out for MARTA and a funding mechanism for billion dollar mass transit projects that only 2% of us will ever use. 52% of the money is designated for rail transit projects, MANY of which are initial phases of multi-DECADE projects. The TSPLOST brazenly commits $600 million to bail out the existing MARTA system, a concept that the legislature intentionally tried to prohibit in passing the enabling act.

 

Even the AJC reported on May 20, 2012, that regional planners concede that the TSPLOST project list will do little to reduce commute times.

 

They need to take this one back to the drawing board...

 

Lisa the money collected in Paulding's region will never fund anything you mentioned. It would sonud rather threatening had they said that the increase in commute times might be 10 -15 minutes if we don't do it.

The studies only addressed normal days of commute, if you start adding up the hours spent in traffic jams and the fact that our surface roads are just as congested you start to see the time spent in a car add up very quickly over ten years of your life.

 

The bottom line is that the message can not penetrated the rhetoric.

[LisaC]

Lisa the money collected in Paulding's region will never fund anything you mentioned. It would sonud rather threatening had they said that the increase in commute times might be 10 -15 minutes if we don't do it.

The studies only addressed normal days of commute, if you start adding up the hours spent in traffic jams and the fact that our surface roads are just as congested you start to see the time spent in a car add up very quickly over ten years of your life.

 

The bottom line is that the message can not penetrated the rhetoric.

 

I work in Atlanta, live in Paulding, and shop some in Cobb so for me to vote purely on what Paulding might OR MIGHT NOT get, doesn't make sense. My TAX money will be distributed throughout the region and I refuse to vote for a sales tax that is flawed.

[MrsB]

I was wondering about this one last night - 6% state tax plus %8 sales tax. In TN most areas are 9.75% sales tax. They still make it and have roads, etc.

I know. I grew up there, and moved here about 10 years ago. I was 21, and went from making $8.25 to $13/hr. I thought I was going o be rolling in money. After taxes I brought home little less. I don't understand how TN can do it, but GA can. I'd gladly pay 9.25% sales tax if we didn't have the car tax or income tax.

[The Sound Guy]

I think I'm still voting no.

 

It's a band aid. How many times have we been told that adding a lane to I20, I285, I75, I85 etc would fix the traffic problems. And what happens? Because it's now easier to get to Atlanta, more people build homes in the suburbs and traffic goes to crap again.

 

You guys like paying high property taxes? Well then the TSPLOST is for you. By widening 278, it will make it easier for more homes to be sold here in Paulding that are a drain on the school system and they will have to increase the tax rate to pay for it all. More Bonds to build more buildings because Heath and What's her name are owned by the builders that don't want to pay impact fees. More bonds for sewer and water projects for the new homes. Yee haw!!

 

No, I'd pay 1% in Paulding for a LOCAL tax that would build industry here and bring jobs. We have the local homes and good workers, all they need is local jobs and poof, all the traffic to Atlanta and Cobb goes away.

 

Nope, this is a useless band aid created by our useless representatives in the Gold dome. Clean them all out I say.

[mei lan]

I would have voted yes for that one, but we the taxpayers didn't get a chance.

 

Ditto here.

 

And I can confirm the TN information. My brother lives there, and pays no state income tax, no ad valorem tax, and his property taxes IN THE CITY on a house that's worth THREE TIMES what mine is are lower than mine are. Sorry, but I'm voting NO. lowrider is correct on another point - EXTREME distrust of government. EXTREME.

[MrsB]

Ditto here.

 

And I can confirm the TN information. My brother lives there, and pays no state income tax, no ad valorem tax, and his property taxes IN THE CITY on a house that's worth THREE TIMES what mine is are lower than mine are. Sorry, but I'm voting NO. lowrider is correct on another point - EXTREME distrust of government. EXTREME.

Yep. I'll never, ever understand it.