The Paulding.com News for Friday, July 10 , 2009

[LPPT]

So you stated their are 5 others that sell these. Has PCOM disclosed the names of these businesses to the SO?

 

I was not saying that they are specifivally the bags that Nemie was selling, oops so sorry I gave that impression, they all sell replicas, it has to do with what is found on close inspection of these bags, if they are unlawful.

 

These tiny shops and open markets are to numerous to inspect, and as in Nemie's case unless you really know your stuff it may be hard to know if your merchandise you have ordered crosses the line.

 

Did I make myself more clear on that.

[MeWhoElse]

You're twisting her words MWE. She said she knew of 4 other Biz Members who sell purses in their shops. She didn't say they were exactly like these. (Although, I feel sure other businesses in Paulding County do indeed have these same kind of purses for sell.)

 

OK 4 businesses Soapmom. I twisted no ones words, just numbers lol and not intentionally if I in fact did.

 

I was not saying that they are specifivally the bags that Nemie was selling, oops so sorry I gave that imprssion, they all sell replicas, it has to do with what is found on close inspection of these bags, if they are unlawful.

 

These tiny shops and open markets are to numerous to inspect, and as in Nemie's case unless you really know your stuff it may be hard to know if your merchandise you have ordered crosses the line.

 

Did I make myself more clear on that.

 

Yes and thank you for the explanation.

 

Edited to remove the <hiccup>

Edited July 11, 2009 by MeWhoElse

[SoapMom]

OK 4 businesses Soapmom. I twisted no ones words, just numbers lol and not intentionally if I in fact did.

 

 

Yes and thank you for the explanation.

 

Edited to remove the <hiccup>

 

 

I was just pointing out that she didn't say they sold the *same* purses, just that they did indeed sell purses.

[MeWhoElse]

I was just pointing out that she didn't say they sold the *same* purses, just that they did indeed sell purses.

 

Gotcha ...

[gpatt0n]

I understand your point regarding the restaurant scenario but now that you know that the counterfeit goods are illegal, I would still suspend them to uphold the integrity of my site... (but again, it is not my site)

 

To do that would mean in all practicality that we become advertising free Consider banks (just think the late '80's and early 90's in this point) and any of the old timers that lost big on stock of the local Citizens Bank and Trust will remember that fiasco that was a county building and now is going to be a school campus. I should prevent all banks from advertising? Or I should conduct a full forensic audit at a cost of $150,000 to determine if they can by a $150 commerce membership?

 

That would be absurd even iIf our fee for membership was $15,000 and banner ads $700/mo. That is also just not how the system works.

 

Me, who Else, at this point, one of the possible defenses still available to Steve and Nemie is that the merchandise they were 'reselling' did not, in fact, violate the Intellectual property rights of the IP holders. If it comes to court they may be able to find some experts to testify to that. I don't know if they have a chance on that point but if I were on the jury, before I judge them guilty, I'd want to know why selling a handbag that holds stuff like the tens of thousands of other handbags that hang on shelves and are sold each and every day is illegal. And if the 'issue' is the shape of an impression of ink or fabric, ... the variation of a half-millimeter this way and that would render it legal ... I'd want to know before I not only sent some folks I knew off to the slammer, but had me paying for their roof, their clothes and three squares for however long ... especially when the folks making the accusation don't have a place of business here, don't pay local taxes and want me to absorb all that expense to protect them.

 

I know I have a duty to do that under the law but what I also know is that I'm not so eager to see it their way that I don't want convincing.

 

And that is the fact of this case. The facts have not be established beyond doubt. There is the allegation that the merchandise is illegal but right now those boxes sitting at the SO impound are is nothing more (or less) than possible evidence of a crime.

 

It can't and won't be destroyed until there is a disposition in the case and if it were, then Steve and Nemie would walk free as that merchandise is 'the case' against them. And as they are presumed innocent, so the presumption that it is legal to sell merchandise remains, at least theoretically.

 

We are dealing with other people's property ... those bags are property, you know.

 

Just so you know the court cannot determine that merchandise is a violation without reviewing it, reviewing the statute, looking closely at the merchandise and tags associated, and even hearing the testimony of expert witnessees... unless the defense counsel agrees to stipulate that it is. Indeed, if the court, after hearing all the evidence, rules that the particular items seized for evidence, are indeed legal items, they would returned to Steve and Nemie along with the apologies of the court

And as Deputy Gurley said when talking about the list of persons who bought the merchandise, they don't expect typical consumers to be able to tell the difference between legal and illegal product.

 

Indeed ... do know that it didn't become a story until the SO executed a warrant and confiscated goods and put the state - the state that cannot be sued for libel - on the record saying that the merchandise was illegal. Until then our position is and was the true presumption of innocence ... that the property owner knew what they had and it was legal.

 

The same presumption applies to the other folks as I'm not competent to judge whether this or that product is illegal but it is the word of the property owner and merchant that the goods being offered are what they are.

 

And, I don't think that there is any argument that these products weren't designed as replicas nor were they being sold as genuine goods. The operative question being "were these legal replicas being sold legally or illegal replicas being sold illegally? Yes or No" ...

 

That question may be ultimately up to a jury to decide as that group of folks is given the authority to make these often tough judgments in our system of government.

 

pubby

[ScarletIndulgence]

I was not saying that they are specifivally the bags that Nemie was selling, oops so sorry I gave that impression, they all sell replicas, it has to do with what is found on close inspection of these bags, if they are unlawful.

 

These tiny shops and open markets are to numerous to inspect, and as in Nemie's case unless you really know your stuff it may be hard to know if your merchandise you have ordered crosses the line.

 

Did I make myself more clear on that.

 

 

Yes and thank you, your other comment unexplained crossed the line of defaming ones character. We get turned in all of time, they check us out and all is well, not just manufactures but the county and city of Hiram. Luckily for us we have a large pool of friends in the legal business so we have been able to keep on the up and up since our issues with sales tax and having to pay back taxes and fines.

 

WE DO NOT CARRY ILLEGAL PURSES OR OTHER ILLEGAL PRODUCTS PERIOD. The big difference as shown in the galleries Pubby posted in the news is that they had THE NAME GUCCI, COACH AND SO ON WHICH WE STAY AWAY FROM. Like Nemi we got on Tradekey.com looking for more direct suppliers and got slammed with emails trying to sell us counterfeit items. There are many close that we don't carry even though they are legal, for US it is a matter of integrity.

 

I knew we were being watched as about a month ago the same person came in almost demanding we get them one and we said hell no. I guess she thought we were dumb, would forget her the next time and try to make a few dollars. This was Scarlet's dream and I am not going to do anything illegal even if I have to close due to low sales. For those who have been in you know even our scents that are like major names are not called what they call them. A good example is our Pure Indulgence that does come close to Victoria's Secret Pure Seduction. We have read in DETAIL the law on doing this and we don't even try to run just barely on the right side off the law, we run within the law!

 

This was a somber time for us as like many of you they have been folks we knew for years and sent many customers their way if we thought they had it and we did not. We also did the same with Purses and More before they closed.

 

In closing I will say we wish the absolute best to Steve and Nemi. I would like to personally welcome the PCSO or any other law enforcement agency to stop in and see what we have. You need no warrant, this may act as my written permission to come check us out.

 

 

I will not reply to this anymore as I am used to the constant bashing that we get and I know the haters that hide behind screen names out there will jump on this. I am a person of integrity and choose to side with the majority on this site that read and don't do the drama.

 

 

Bruce T. Hilicus

[Combatboots]

I've been sitting here reading through trying to bite my tongue in regards to some of the snarky comments on here. I feel like people are confused and being misled and led to believe this is an issue of WHO when it is an issue instead of GREED.

 

What I mean is, when people see they can make money through something, they tend to get greedy. It is only human nature. When you get greedy you tend to slip up, in this case it was by selling counterfit merchandise. It is widely known that it is illegal. I can't tell you who is a name brand and I don't buy the crap either but I do know if someone offers you something at a good deal, its probably not legit. End of story. Also, whether you claim you knew the law or didn't, its your job as a citizen and business to know the laws. Not knowing will not get you out of trouble.

 

Big companies hire people to look out for this stuff and as you know, paulding.com gets out there in the interweb and google. Nemie & Steve did not make it hard for an investigator to find their info such as their shop location, phone number, products available etc.

 

Also, I see people mentioning that the timing is ironic because they just mentioned the sale of their shop and their upcoming move. I don't feel like it is ironic, it takes time to make this stuff happen. I highly doubt that in 3 or 4 days they were investigated and a search warrant was issued. It is more likely they have been being looked into for longer than that, infact I'm willing to bet they had a feeling they were being looked into and that is what prompted the "sale" and news of moving to England. But thats just my opinion, like yours, its not worth anything. And frankly I don't care.

 

And as far as the "why are the other purse sellers not getting in trouble" cry baby stuff, because they are obviously not selling illegal goods. For example, the animal print purses. As long as they don't carry any copyrighted or trademarked names or designs, they are legal. When you take that animal print bag and add a logo on it, thats when it become illegal.

 

 

Will this clear anything up? Probably not for some seeing as how they seem hell bent on blaming everyone else for everyones problems. Take responsibility for your own actions for once people. Not everything is a big conspiracy.

[melbelle]

I've been sitting here reading through trying to bite my tongue in regards to some of the snarky comments on here. I feel like people are confused and being misled and led to believe this is an issue of WHO when it is an issue instead of GREED.

 

What I mean is, when people see they can make money through something, they tend to get greedy. It is only human nature. When you get greedy you tend to slip up, in this case it was by selling counterfit merchandise. It is widely known that it is illegal. I can't tell you who is a name brand and I don't buy the crap either but I do know if someone offers you something at a good deal, its probably not legit. End of story. Also, whether you claim you knew the law or didn't, its your job as a citizen and business to know the laws. Not knowing will not get you out of trouble.

 

Big companies hire people to look out for this stuff and as you know, paulding.com gets out there in the interweb and google. Nemie & Steve did not make it hard for an investigator to find their info such as their shop location, phone number, products available etc.

 

Also, I see people mentioning that the timing is ironic because they just mentioned the sale of their shop and their upcoming move. I don't feel like it is ironic, it takes time to make this stuff happen. I highly doubt that in 3 or 4 days they were investigated and a search warrant was issued. It is more likely they have been being looked into for longer than that, infact I'm willing to bet they had a feeling they were being looked into and that is what prompted the "sale" and news of moving to England. But thats just my opinion, like yours, its not worth anything. And frankly I don't care.

 

And as far as the "why are the other purse sellers not getting in trouble" cry baby stuff, because they are obviously not selling illegal goods. For example, the animal print purses. As long as they don't carry any copyrighted or trademarked names or designs, they are legal. When you take that animal print bag and add a logo on it, thats when it become illegal.

 

 

Will this clear anything up? Probably not for some seeing as how they seem hell bent on blaming everyone else for everyones problems. Take responsibility for your own actions for once people. Not everything is a big conspiracy.

 

 

I think you are right. As mad as it will make people, it's all true. I'm sorry, but it is.

 

[DoubleRose]

I don't really see any "gray area". If the "replica" has the actual name brand, ie: COACH, printed on it anywhere, it is counterfeit and ILLEGAL. I don't understand how anyone who sells handbags (and even has the word "bags" in their business name), could not know that they were selling counterfeit merchandise. I really don't. I do believe they are probably great people (never met them) but I highly doubt they did not know what they were selling. If they didn't then they should not be selling handbags in the first place.

[Lady Raider]

Good Gawd

[smy34]

Certainly we have something else that is more important than a bunch of handbags...give me a break....

[rockster]

Well, that's happened before.

 

Yep, it has

 

[dawneykids]

I have to say this whole issue confuses me to no end.

The retail stores will be flooded with some of the ugly purses I have ever seen in my life, and I can't for the life of me figure out why you see people carrying these ugly things everywhere.

 

I am told they are knock offs or replica's of designer bags, the market is flooded with these things every season.

 

The way I understand it, is there are people out there that desire there fake bag to look so much like the real thing that people will believe that you have spent $500.00 on a purse when you step out of your minivan.

 

I would assume that there are certain degrees as to how much it can look like the real thing, and from what I understand it takes an expert to figure out if the line has been crossed'

 

Well Steve is a carpenter by trade, and Nemie has always marketed pet things.

 

I have never seen Nemie prance around in designer anything, and like me she probably wouldn't know it if she saw it.

 

She chose the merchandise based on the popularity of it to make a profit.

 

I can tell you that I see the copy cats everywhere and did not realize the issues involved, because everything you see in fashion is modeled after designer fashion.

 

I am just so sorry that it got them in so much trouble.

That is exactly right. Even if someone had a REAL designer bag, I would think it's a fake because the circles in which I run, nobody could or would pay the price of a real one. I seriously doubt they were trying to pass them off as real and even if they did, who would believe you could get a real Chanel or Ed Hardy bay for $15.00 or $20.00? This is just unbelievable.

 

So the post about them selling to a larger company and going back to England, is that off now or was the offer from the same people who turned them in?

 

[confederaterose]

Just wanted to give a special thanks to CPL Gurley. Everytime I saw Bruce Harris on TV, in his golf shirt and jeans, looking like he just crawled out of bed, it made me chringe.

 

With CPL Gurley as the spokesperson for the Sheriff's Dept., it really makes me proud. We no longer look like the redneck, hicks of the Metro area.

 

I also have a couple of questions. What was Steve with Barks and Bags charged with? I read somewhere that Nemie would not be charged. Why is Nemie not being charged? Was this not a joint effort? Is this selective prosecution?

[LPPT]

That is exactly right. Even if someone had a REAL designer bag, I would think it's a fake because the circles in which I run, nobody could or would pay the price of a real one. I seriously doubt they were trying to pass them off as real and even if they did, who would believe you could get a real Chanel or Ed Hardy bay for $15.00 or $20.00? This is just unbelievable.

 

So the post about them selling to a larger company and going back to England, is that off now or was the offer from the same people who turned them in?

 

 

Momof 3 the truth is that there are many large investigations from various agencies that are chasing down counterfiet designer merchandise, these companies have their own private investigators that try to find the people doing so they can be prosecuted.

 

Some of these products sell for 1/2 of the original that still adds up to millions.

 

The investigators do visit flea markets, small retail stores, check ads in local papers and use search engines to track people down selling.

 

Unfortunately Nemie made it very easy for them with her ad on here with pictures of the purses, they decided to pursue it.

 

There is little or no reason to believe that anyone local turned them in, because this is very common.

 

We have even been contacted about copyright infringement, the bigger the company the more seriously they take this, it ads up to billions in lost income to legitimate corporations every year.

 

As I said these are ongoing investigations all over the country, they follow up on every lead like an internet post or newspaper ad.

 

They are more than likely after who sold the merchandise to them, this is how they bust the bigger fish, they had to arrest them to confiscate the evidence.

 

I hope this helps everyone to understand how a tiny little shop in Hiram got in so much trouble over this.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ugadawgs98]

I don't really see any "gray area". If the "replica" has the actual name brand, ie: COACH, printed on it anywhere, it is counterfeit and ILLEGAL. I don't understand how anyone who sells handbags (and even has the word "bags" in their business name), could not know that they were selling counterfeit merchandise. I really don't. I do believe they are probably great people (never met them) but I highly doubt they did not know what they were selling. If they didn't then they should not be selling handbags in the first place.

 

Exactly....there is a huge difference between selling an item which is similar to other products and selling that item another companies logo on it. It should not be that hard to figure out that is very very wrong.

 

[gpatt0n]

Just wanted to give a special thanks to CPL Gurley. Everytime I saw Bruce Harris on TV, in his golf shirt and jeans, looking like he just crawled out of bed, it made me chringe.

 

With CPL Gurley as the spokesperson for the Sheriff's Dept., it really makes me proud. We no longer look like the redneck, hicks of the Metro area.

 

I also have a couple of questions. What was Steve with Barks and Bags charged with? I read somewhere that Nemie would not be charged. Why is Nemie not being charged? Was this not a joint effort? Is this selective prosecution?

 

Nemie is not charged and according to the SO there is no plan or expectation to charge her. She was not at the shop and frankly, if you know Nemie, you know that her eyesight is so bad she can't drive or hardly even work on a computer. I don't know if she sees well enough to be able to tell the difference. Steve, of course, is about like me... as a carpenter and building contractor, he wouldn't know the difference between a legal knockoff, the real deal and a counterfeit unless it was pointed out to him.

 

To me those circumstances makes them the perfect victim of the person who sold them this merchandise. I have no doubt that the seller of the counterfeit merchandise promised up and down and a month of Sunday's that it was 'legal' merchandise and their 'crime' was to believe this person. And since there is no statute that they can be charged with that says it is a crime to be conned, they charged them with the crime this other guy committed. Steven was charged because, well he was the one left holding the bag.

 

Regardless, ignorance of the law is no excuse. The law is black and white.

 

Justice, however, takes into account a lot more than the black and white of the law; and that is why judges and juries are the one's who dispense justice.

 

Let me conclude this with notice that Steve is out of jail on bond, has an attorney (Mason Rountree) and both, I understand, would like the tongue wagging to cease.

 

pubby

 

 

[lowrider]

Let me conclude this with notice that Steve is out of jail on bond, has an attorney (Mason Rountree) and both, I understand, would like the tongue wagging to cease.

 

pubby

 

 

Thank you Pubby, and Mason is an excellent attorney. And a great guy too!

 

 

I wish them well.

[Lady Raider]

I love me some steve and Nemie and that is all I am gonna wag my tail about LOL

 

 

[NumberCruncher]

Nemie is not charged and according to the SO there is no plan or expectation to charge her. She was not at the shop and frankly, if you know Nemie, you know that her eyesight is so bad she can't drive or hardly even work on a computer. I don't know if she sees well enough to be able to tell the difference. Steve, of course, is about like me... as a carpenter and building contractor, he wouldn't know the difference between a legal knockoff, the real deal and a counterfeit unless it was pointed out to him.

 

To me those circumstances makes them the perfect victim of the person who sold them this merchandise. I have no doubt that the seller of the counterfeit merchandise promised up and down and a month of Sunday's that it was 'legal' merchandise and their 'crime' was to believe this person. And since there is no statute that they can be charged with that says it is a crime to be conned, they charged them with the crime this other guy committed. Steven was charged because, well he was the one left holding the bag.

 

Regardless, ignorance of the law is no excuse. The law is black and white.

 

Justice, however, takes into account a lot more than the black and white of the law; and that is why judges and juries are the one's who dispense justice.

 

Let me conclude this with notice that Steve is out of jail on bond, has an attorney (Mason Rountree) and both, I understand, would like the tongue wagging to cease.

 

pubby

 

 

how's your cake taste?

 

you want to publish a news story about an event, but don't want anyone to talk about it?

[GRAYCE]

Wow, that's why you read the fine print. You see this on the TV all the time.

 

You would think people would know you can't buy a $300.00 purse for a fraction of the price. Knock offs are a big business but not big enough to go to jail over

JMO.

[gpatt0n]

how's your cake taste?

 

you want to publish a news story about an event, but don't want anyone to talk about it?

 

Your reading comprehension is pretty weak, eh?

 

I'm going to have to change your no-name, I see.

 

pubby

[JDPennock]

how's your cake taste?

 

you want to publish a news story about an event, but don't want anyone to talk about it?

 

Let me conclude this with notice that Steve is out of jail on bond, has an attorney (Mason Rountree) and both, I understand, would like the tongue wagging to cease.

 

Both, in reference to the attorney and his client.

 

edit to add- talk it up (awareness is a good thing) but please keep them in your thoughts.