I'm Floored Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Many start up churches and even more established churches use members' homes as places to hold meetings, bible studies, and even services. This town says it is illegal. Is this the beginning? Fox News link One News Now link Link to post Share on other sites
xxrsellars Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 the town says it's the traffic, parking....etc. There are only seven members. I think you are right...It is beginning. Link to post Share on other sites
dawneykids Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 The beginning of what? Link to post Share on other sites
NewsJunky Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 The beginning of what? Some feel that there has been an attack on religion for years and that it is growing. I have to agree that this is disturbing. Link to post Share on other sites
dawneykids Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Some feel that there has been an attack on religion for years and that it is growing. I have to agree that this is disturbing. I agree that it is disturbing and if challenged will not hold up in a higher court. However, the paranoia of so many is just getting old. Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 The beginning of what? People being parnoid. The issue is that currently ANYONE can start a "church" in their home to avoid taxes, have the right to do drugs in the name of their religion etc. I don't believe that Az. is the first state to make such laws. In these economic times people will do anything to save money, including start religions. No one is banning legit religions from meeting etc. Link to post Share on other sites
NewsJunky Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 I agree that it is disturbing and if challenged will not hold up in a higher court. However, the paranoia of so many is just getting old. To some paranoia is another word for survival. Personally I think that the attack on religion has grown and now the attackers want to take the word, god, out of everything associated with the government whether it is words on money, engraved on buildings, a cross put up years ago as a memorial to those who died in this country's service, prayers, or bibles brought to school by children to read in their free time. The list goes on and on. How did it start in countries where Christianity was banned and churches and bibles burned? I have not been one of the folks who have been very concerned about it. Maybe I should rethink that. Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 To some paranoia is another word for survival. Personally I think that the attack on religion has grown and now the attackers want to take the word, god, out of everything associated with the government whether it is words on money, engraved on buildings, a cross put up years ago as a memorial to those who died in this country's service, prayers, or bibles brought to school by children to read in their free time. The list goes on and on. How did it start in countries where Christianity was banned and churches and bibles burned? I have not been one of the folks who have been very concerned about it. Maybe I should rethink that. This ban is for ALL relgions, not just Christians. Link to post Share on other sites
NewsJunky Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 This ban is for ALL relgions, not just Christians. OK. Can they really go about it any other way? Link to post Share on other sites
Thoughts from the Evil Galaxy Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 To some paranoia is another word for survival. Personally I think that the attack on religion has grown and now the attackers want to take the word, god, out of everything associated with the government whether it is words on money, engraved on buildings, a cross put up years ago as a memorial to those who died in this country's service, prayers, or bibles brought to school by children to read in their free time. The list goes on and on. How did it start in countries where Christianity was banned and churches and bibles burned? I have not been one of the folks who have been very concerned about it. Maybe I should rethink that. Oh ye of little faith, if it was that easy to stamp out Christianity, world leaders like Stalin would have eraticated it from their nations. Despite Communist best effort, Christianity continued in the old Soviet Union and large parts of Eastern Europe and now that they're gone, Christianity actually thrives (a form of it anyways). North Korea have been putting Christian leaders to death for years but they can't quite seem to stamp it out. Christianity continues, it's designed to continue even in the face of determined opposition. People will continue to meet in secret, that is happening to this very day. The only reason people start screaming the sky is falling everytime stuff like this happens is a lack of true faith and ulterior motives... Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 OK. Can they really go about it any other way? ....but that is the rub. Those that cry "they are attacking religion" really want to say they are attacking Christians. As long as the laws are equal for everyone that is no the case. The ones that cry the loudest are the same that have no issue with other faiths not being given the same rights as there own. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. There is a topic here on Pcom about Christisn Scientist (I think that was the group) not being allowed to use a building due to traffic etc, but there was little outrage and many defended the action because of zoning etc. These peoples homes are not zoned as commerical but because they are a "christian" based faith we are worried that it is a sign of the future of religion being banned. Link to post Share on other sites
+VanaDorr Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 ....but that is the rub. Those that cry "they are attacking religion" really want to say they are attacking Christians. As long as the laws are equal for everyone that is no the case. The ones that cry the loudest are the same that have no issue with other faiths not being given the same rights as there own. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. There is a topic here on Pcom about Christisn Scientist (I think that was the group) not being allowed to use a building due to traffic etc, but there was little outrage and many defended the action because of zoning etc. These peoples homes are not zoned as commerical but because they are a "christian" based faith we are worried that it is a sign of the future of religion being banned. I think I remember that thread... Link to post Share on other sites
NewsJunky Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 ....but that is the rub. Those that cry "they are attacking religion" really want to say they are attacking Christians. As long as the laws are equal for everyone that is no the case. The ones that cry the loudest are the same that have no issue with other faiths not being given the same rights as there own. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. There is a topic here on Pcom about Christisn Scientist (I think that was the group) not being allowed to use a building due to traffic etc, but there was little outrage and many defended the action because of zoning etc. These peoples homes are not zoned as commerical but because they are a "christian" based faith we are worried that it is a sign of the future of religion being banned. I am not the right person to try and make the case for Christianity here. I do believe it is the religion that most of the attacks are aimed at. I will leave the discussion to those who really know more about it than I do. I was just trying to explain the meaning of an earlier comment to momof 3. Link to post Share on other sites
C_Watkins Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 I agree that it is disturbing and if challenged will not hold up in a higher court. However, the paranoia of so many is just getting old. I would like to see the code, personally. I find it hard to believe any government body would single out 'church services' directly like that. No way I could see that sort of code holding water in any real court. Wonder how that town's officials react to birthday parties, weddings, wakes, superbowl parties, baby showers, etc... (All of which come with the same set of 'issues' that the town seems to have here) Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 I would like to see the code, personally. I find it hard to believe any government body would single out 'church services' directly like that. No way I could see that sort of code holding water in any real court. Wonder how that town's officials react to birthday parties, weddings, wakes, superbowl parties, baby showers, etc... (All of which come with the same set of 'issues' that the town seems to have here) I agree with this as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamwriter Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Many start up churches and even more established churches use members' homes as places to hold meetings, bible studies, and even services. This town says it is illegal. Is this the beginning? Fox News link One News Now link Yep but actually such things have been going on for awhile against Christians. Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 I am not the right person to try and make the case for Christianity here. I do believe it is the religion that most of the attacks are aimed at. I will leave the discussion to those who really know more about it than I do. I was just trying to explain the meaning of an earlier comment to momof 3. I hear what you are saying but ALL religions are being affected by this. You will find it easier to open a new Wal-Mart then attempting to open a Mosque in a lot of places. Religion is a touchy subject because people's faith runs so deep. As a Christian with friends and family of different religious backrounds I don't feel any more picked on then they do. Just an opinion of one. Link to post Share on other sites
mei lan Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 I'm guessing this would not hold up if challenged in court, primarily due to the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA). SCOTUS has already upheld several aspects of the law (which seeks to ensure liberty for prisoners and others who seek to practice their religion in places that are not churches), but according to the web site below, the local zoning laws portions are still in litigation. We shall see. I'm an evangelical Christian, but I believe that religious liberty applies to all - Wiccans included. Link to RLUIPA information is here: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Religious+Land+Use+and+Institutionalized+Persons+Act Link to post Share on other sites
afriendlygeek Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 People being parnoid. The issue is that currently ANYONE can start a "church" in their home to avoid taxes, have the right to do drugs in the name of their religion etc. I don't believe that Az. is the first state to make such laws. In these economic times people will do anything to save money, including start religions. No one is banning legit religions from meeting etc. How do you avoid paying taxes by starting a Church in your home? Maybe this is something we all should do. Link to post Share on other sites
NewsJunky Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 How do you avoid paying taxes by starting a Church in your home? Maybe this is something we all should do. Churches are Tax exempt and some folks have abused the status to avoid paying any taxes. I have no desire to see an IRS agent at my door so we would never think of it. We probably pay more than we need to because we want no legal issues with them. Did you see where they went after a guy for 4 cents? Maybe you posted that story. Link to post Share on other sites
afriendlygeek Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Churches are Tax exempt and some folks have abused the status to avoid paying any taxes. I have no desire to see an IRS agent at my door so we would never think of it. We probably pay more than we need to because we want no legal issues with them. Did you see where they went after a guy for 4 cents? Maybe you posted that story. I did see the story about the 4 cents. The most shocking thing about the situation to me was that the penalties and interest was over $200. I think it would be very difficult for a home based Church to gain tax exemption status for property and other taxes. I'm with you on being afraid of the IRS just like I'm afraid of a crazy man with a gun. Link to post Share on other sites
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