bvrat5199 Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 120,000 jobs will be lost, and this is only the tip of that iceburg. For those that like to use Delta as an example please click the link in this link and notice they aren't in the same class. I hate bailouts, but this may be the final nail in America's coffin in terms of unemployment. If you think someone you know won't be affected by this you are kidding yourself. There are many to blame, the UAW, poor CEOs, the gov't regulating a business, hippie tree huggers, and the American public's complete failure to understand that buying a foriegn car does not support American workers as much as buying an American one does. http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/01/news/compa...sion=2009060110 Link to post Share on other sites
Cabe Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Nope, not ready. Link to post Share on other sites
ThornwoodMom Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 A sad day, for sure. A lot of folks will be hurt. But I strongly believe that GM will be back better than before someday. It's a new beginning, not the beginning of the end. It ain't over 'til it's over. -Yogi Berra Link to post Share on other sites
Cabe Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 A sad day, for sure. A lot of folks will be hurt. But I strongly believe that GM will be back better than before someday. It's a new beginning, not the beginning of the end. It ain't over 'til it's over. -Yogi Berra You do realize the federal government will be a 60% shareholder and the unions 17%? Link to post Share on other sites
AustinPlantation Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 I feel terrible, not just because I own a piece of GM Preferred stock in my IRA (they offered stockholders what would have amounted to 0-10% or less of their holdings after giving 50% to the union and required 90% to accept the offer --- know it wasn't going to happen.) or because I recently bought a GM car. The AP article says that only 21,000 employees will lose jobs, and GM is expected to come out of bankruptcy in a few months with the gov't having a 60% stake. I'm sure several feeder industires will also have to reduce emplyees. Maybe the gov't will make some moneyon the deal. Link to post Share on other sites
EagleWings Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 GM has or will get 50 Billion in tax payers dollars. We will never see that money again. What else do you suggest happen? Bankruptcy should have occurred way before any money was given to them. All the smart people knew this was inevitable. Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 I feel terrible, not just because I own a piece of GM Preferred stock in my IRA (they offered stockholders what would have amounted to 0-10% or less of their holdings after giving 50% to the union and required 90% to accept the offer --- know it wasn't going to happen.) or because I recently bought a GM car. The AP article says that only 21,000 employees will lose jobs, and GM is expected to come out of bankruptcy in a few months with the gov't having a 60% stake. I'm sure several feeder industires will also have to reduce emplyees. Maybe the gov't will make some moneyon the deal. The 21,000 is the first wave from GM themselves - the other 100,000 will be in dealership closings. They have not even factored in supplier cuts etc. yet. GM has or will get 50 Billion in tax payers dollars. We will never see that money again. What else do you suggest happen? Bankruptcy should have occurred way before any money was given to them. All the smart people knew this was inevitable. Guess I'm just a dumbass then. There are things that could have been done to help, Things that would have cost the American public very little. Things that would have allowed people that work hard to earn a decent wage and not 14 bucks an hour. I've documented them before, experts have documented them. They were ignored - and now we have this. I pray I'm wrong, but I doubt it. Who do you think is going to pay the unemployment for all these workers? How much do you think that will cost? Who do you think will suffer when the small suppliers go belly up and lay off their workers because GM isn't paying them what they owe? We WILL pay in the end no matter what - the difference is now we will pay and there is little hope of getting the money back. Link to post Share on other sites
ThornwoodMom Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 You do realize the federal government will be a 60% shareholder and the unions 17%? I know. The same gvnmt & union that drove it in the ditch in the first place. But I still believe in someday. BS is right, should have been done long ago. Link to post Share on other sites
mom2dachs Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 The President is having a press conference on this. Many of the experts have stated GM should have been allowed to work through it themselves without interference from the government. It is the way the country has always been run. Link to post Share on other sites
Quick Cuisine Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Detroit has had this coming for years...UAW cost and demands have led to American automakers inability to compete with Japanese or Korean cars. I believe this could be a good thing if the government would stay out of it and let GM restructure like every-one else. If they dont, then Americans will continue to buy Toyotas, Honda, and Kias. Just a fact of life and value. Link to post Share on other sites
Cabe Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Detroit has had this coming for years...UAW cost and demands have led to American automakers inability to compete with Japanese or Korean cars. I believe this could be a good thing if the government would stay out of it and let GM restructure like every-one else. If they dont, then Americans will continue to buy Toyotas, Honda, and Kias. Just a fact of life and value. Link to post Share on other sites
flamez Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Can't beat sweeping the floor for 25$ an hour plus a great pension. Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Can't beat sweeping the floor for 25$ an hour plus a great pension. Show me one person that makes that for sweeping the floor. You may want to look at how this "huge" 25 dollar an hour salary is calculated first. This affects more then just the line workers by the way. It's actually the middle managers in the offices that are going to be hurt the worst. They have no pension, at least not anymore. Link to post Share on other sites
NewsJunky Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 120,000 jobs will be lost, and this is only the tip of that iceburg. For those that like to use Delta as an example please click the link in this link and notice they aren't in the same class. I hate bailouts, but this may be the final nail in America's coffin in terms of unemployment. If you think someone you know won't be affected by this you are kidding yourself. There are many to blame, the UAW, poor CEOs, the gov't regulating a business, hippie tree huggers, and the American public's complete failure to understand that buying a foriegn car does not support American workers as much as buying an American one does. http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/01/news/compa...sion=2009060110 Sad day for the real owners who had the company taken away from them by the Obama Administration, the workers who will lose their jobs, and for the tax payers who have to pay for the bailout money that could just as well have been burned! We will soon have no choice in the kind of car that is available to us to buy! Does this Administration want a complete economic collapse? Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Sad day for the real owners who had the company taken away from them by the Obama Administration, the workers who will lose their jobs, and for the tax payers who have to pay for the bailout money that could just as well have been burned! We will soon have no choice in the kind of car that is available to us to buy! Does this Administration want a complete economic collapse? ...and now we will end up in the political forum. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
NewsJunky Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 ...and now we will end up in the political forum. Thanks. You are welcome! Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 You are welcome! Link to post Share on other sites
tow2topgun Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Can't beat sweeping the floor for 25$ an hour plus a great pension. You got that right! Greed is what got them in their current pickle! Not sure GM employes anyone that only makes 25 bucks an hour though. I don't really blame the individual employee. However their gravy train has hit the end of the track! Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 You got that right! Greed is what got them in their current pickle! Not sure GM employes anyone that only makes 25 bucks an hour though. I don't really blame the individual employee. However their gravy train has hit the end of the track! Gotta love people that run their mouth based on what they hear on the news. You want some people to talk to about their "25 dollars an hour" they would like to know where the rest of their paycheck has been these past years, that is for sure. Link to post Share on other sites
mrshoward Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Show me one person that makes that for sweeping the floor. You may want to look at how this "huge" 25 dollar an hour salary is calculated first. This affects more then just the line workers by the way. It's actually the middle managers in the offices that are going to be hurt the worst. They have no pension, at least not anymore. Automakers Job Bank Pays Workers To Do Nothing Thousands of laid-off auto workers get paid $31 an hour to sit around and do nothing all year under a controversial program that could continue even if American taxpayers bail out the American auto industry. Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaTornado Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 I don't think this is turning political.... but when the guberment starts passing out the money like this... it MAKES it turn political. I think this is just good discussion about what's happening right now... Thanks for posting that mrshoward...... I was about to. Link to post Share on other sites
EagleWings Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 The 21,000 is the first wave from GM themselves - the other 100,000 will be in dealership closings. They have not even factored in supplier cuts etc. yet. Guess I'm just a dumbass then. There are things that could have been done to help, Things that would have cost the American public very little. Things that would have allowed people that work hard to earn a decent wage and not 14 bucks an hour. I've documented them before, experts have documented them. They were ignored - and now we have this. I pray I'm wrong, but I doubt it. Who do you think is going to pay the unemployment for all these workers? How much do you think that will cost? Who do you think will suffer when the small suppliers go belly up and lay off their workers because GM isn't paying them what they owe? We WILL pay in the end no matter what - the difference is now we will pay and there is little hope of getting the money back. MCMM, you are a smart man and you knew this was coming. EVERYONE new this was coming. GM and a host of other players are to blame. Sorry this hits so close to home and sorry about alot of your family getting hit hard with this one but the plain fact is, OUR gov't poured and is pouring money down a rat hole and WE will never see our tax dollars again. They should have filed months ago before the 50 bil went right out the back door. I guess union bosses and upper management needed bonuses for a job not well done. Link to post Share on other sites
EagleWings Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Check out this snippet from what Ms Howard posted. "Do I think it's been a good thing? Yeah, absolutely," Brian Fredline, President of UAW Local 602, told FOXNews.com. "Now I'm not sure if Wall Street would agree. But I think it's saved the income security of a lot of workers." UAW and GM officials are also quick to point out that the program has already been scaled back significantly in the last year. Before then, workers could stay in jobs banks indefinitely -- some were there for more than 15 years -- but now there is a two-year limit. In addition, jobs bank employees at GM may turn down only one company offer to go back to work at a plant within 80 miles of home, and they cannot turn down more than four offers to work for the company elsewhere in the country. In the 2007 GM contract, workers get full pay if they report to a jobs bank and 85 percent if they stay home. Currently, 3,500 workers are in jobs bank programs, according to the Detroit News. Dan Simon, a former GM worker who was paid by a jobs bank in Lansing for seven years before he retired two years ago, said that his old bank has been closed. "They had to get rid of the jobs bank," Simon said. "There was no real production coming out of that. I'm surprised that they managed to keep it going as long as they did." Most of the workers in the program accepted buyouts to leave it, and new work was found for the rest. Earlier this year, GM offered buyouts ranging from a $45,000 bonus for those who simply agreed to retire early to a $140,000 payment for employees with at least 10 years of experience who agreed to retire early and forgo pension and health benefits. What I would like know...........................10 years experience of doing what? Sitting there playing checkers are starring at a wall? Can you imagine sitting around telling folks you took early retirement from doing crossword puzzles? Only in a union. How can you defend that. Link to post Share on other sites
jet_man1969 Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 I don't think this is turning political.... but when the guberment starts passing out the money like this... it MAKES it turn political. I think this is just good discussion about what's happening right now... Thanks for posting that mrshoward...... I was about to. Discssion is good Its my opinion that if the govt did not step in when it did the auto makers and banks would have collasped at the same time sending us straight to a depression with out passing go. It bought time to avoid the perfect storm and to allow the economy to weather one storm out at a time. Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Automakers Job Bank Pays Workers To Do Nothing Thousands of laid-off auto workers get paid $31 an hour to sit around and do nothing all year under a controversial program that could continue even if American taxpayers bail out the American auto industry. Now for the other side of the story, and no I don't have a link - its direct from the source, see I have family that was laid off - that "stare at the wall to get their riches" . These workers had a contract, the pay is no different then anyone else that has a contract. GM closed their plant, those that couldn't be relocated are given the money they are owed based on their contracts. The "dollar an hour rate" that keeps getting thrown around is a total value package. It includes health benifts, vacation time, stock options etc - it isn't straight cash as is implyed with all these articles. Go to your employer and get your "total value" per hour and see if you are as shocked by the number as I was. I'm against the unions, and I think a lot of the issues are due to these contracts but the contracts were signed, and should be honored. The media should report the real numbers not the ones that are spun to get everyone all hot and bothered. Again, show me one actual person that takes home 25 dollars and hour their first day on the line as a grunt. You can't. Detroit and Michigan are part of the backbone of this country, the manufacturing spine, the heart of the middle class -- heck, we invented the middle class, we invented the idea that a factory worker can put in 40 hours a week and actually buy a house and send a kid to college. What? You have a problem with that? You think only lawyers and hedge-fund kings deserve to live decently? - Mitch Albom Link to post Share on other sites
Guest amazed Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 120,000 jobs will be lost, and this is only the tip of that iceburg. For those that like to use Delta as an example please click the link in this link and notice they aren't in the same class. I hate bailouts, but this may be the final nail in America's coffin in terms of unemployment. If you think someone you know won't be affected by this you are kidding yourself. There are many to blame, the UAW, poor CEOs, the gov't regulating a business, hippie tree huggers, and the American public's complete failure to understand that buying a foriegn car does not support American workers as much as buying an American one does. Maybe if the over-paid auto workers would build automobiles that lasted as long as the foreign cars then I might have spent my money supporting the American automotive industry. All the UAW cared about was strangling the industry with their demands for "better everything" for their union paying members. I'm not the least bit sorry that I spent my money on quality, foreign automobiles. Don't you want the best for your money? Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Maybe if the over-paid auto workers would build automobiles that lasted as long as the foreign cars then I might have spent my money supporting the American automotive industry. All the UAW cared about was strangling the industry with their demands for "better everything" for their union paying members. I'm not the least bit sorry that I spent my money on quality, foreign automobiles. Don't you want the best for your money? Yup - its why I drive an AMERICAN car. This isn't the 80s anymore - that excuse doesn't hold water. One other little point to MrsH's article. While they were sitting around collecting their fat checks they WEREN't collect unemployment benifts. Just something to think about. Link to post Share on other sites
NewsJunky Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Discssion is good Its my opinion that if the govt did not step in when it did the auto makers and banks would have collasped at the same time sending us straight to a depression with out passing go. It bought time to avoid the perfect storm and to allow the economy to weather one storm out at a time. And what makes you think all that money has stopped it? The result will be the same it will just take longer for the economy to correct itself! If it ever can now! The only thing that has happened is that the Government and the Unions own GM! And the Gov. owns the Banks! Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 And what makes you think all that money has stopped it? The result will be the same it will just take longer for the economy to correct itself! If it ever can now! The only thing that has happened is that the Government and the Unions own GM! And the Gov. owns the Banks! do you really think we would have survived a collapse of both the auto and banking industry happening at the same time? Link to post Share on other sites
tess Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 THIS IS MY OWN OPINION & DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANY INSIDE INFO I THINK IN THE NEXT 10-15 YEARS THERE WILL BE A GM DEALERSHIP ...IT WILL SELL ALL THE PRODUCTS THAT GM MAKES AT THAT LOCATION...NO MORE CHEV. BUICK. CAD. ETC.AND YOU WILL ORDER OR PICK A VEHICLE [THEY ARE STORED AT A CENTER LOACATION & THEY WILL BE DELIVERIED TO THE DEALERSHIP] THEN YOU GO BACK THERE WHEN IT IS READY ...KIND OF LIKE WHEN YOU ORDER SOMETHING FROM A STORE & IT IS DELIVERED AT THAT STORE AND YOU GO PICK IT UP...LIKE SEARS/PENNEYS USE TO HAVE... A CENTRAL LOCATION DEPENDING ON THE POPULATION & GEOGRAPHICS ALSO THERE WILL BE A SERVICE DEPT ....AT DIFFERENT LOCATIONS ...WHERE YOU TAKE ANY GM PRODUCT FOR SERVICE....THE SERVICE WILL NOT BE AT THE DEALERSHIP... THE SERVICE CENTERS WILL BE CLOSER SINCE MORE GET THEIR CARS SERVICED THAN BUY .. WHO KNOWS WHAT REALLY WILL HAPPEN ...THERE ARE TOO MANY VARIABLES NOW TO BE SURE OF ANYTHING Link to post Share on other sites
Guest amazed Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Yup - its why I drive an AMERICAN car. This isn't the 80s anymore - that excuse doesn't hold water. Well obviously it doesn't hold water with you because you drive an 'American car". Apparently the excuse, as you call it, holds water with many other thousands of Americans who bought foreign because they want the best for their money. Link to post Share on other sites
NewsJunky Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 do you really think we would have survived a collapse of both the auto and banking industry happening at the same time? I don't think AMERICA has survived this one! I think AMERICA would have survived if the government had not taken control! Link to post Share on other sites
Garypro Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Yup - its why I drive an AMERICAN car. This isn't the 80s anymore - that excuse doesn't hold water. One other little point to MrsH's article. While they were sitting around collecting their fat checks they WEREN't collect unemployment benifts. Just something to think about. Lets start a poll Civic vs. Cobalt and see which one people choose. You might be surprised MCMM Link to post Share on other sites
mrshoward Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 do you really think we would have survived a collapse of both the auto and banking industry happening at the same time? You are assuming that both industries would have collapsed without copious government infusions of cash... Do you really think we will survive a QUADRUPLE DEFICIT and HYPERINFLATION ? Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Lets start a poll Civic vs. Cobalt and see which one people choose. You might be surprised MCMM Your right. Now, ask yourself why GM builds the Cobalt at all.....CAFE standards. Your starting to get to the root of the issue - good job. Compare cars that Americans actually want to buy in mass and see who sells the best in those classes, JD Power can be your guide. You are assuming that both industries would have collapsed without copious government infusions of cash... Do you really think we will survive a QUADRUPLE DEFICIT and HYPERINFLATION ? You actually think they would not have - you don't pay attention much do you? No we won't so I guess it was 6 in one half dozen in the other. Link to post Share on other sites
Garypro Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Your right. Now, ask yourself why GM builds the Cobalt at all.....CAFE standards. Your starting to get to the root of the issue - good job. You actually think they would not have - you don't pay attention much do you? No we won't so I guess it was 6 in one half dozen in the other. Gravy trains over GM employees . Link to post Share on other sites
AcworthDad Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Maybe if the over-paid auto workers would build automobiles that lasted as long as the foreign cars then I might have spent my money supporting the American automotive industry. All the UAW cared about was strangling the industry with their demands for "better everything" for their union paying members. I'm not the least bit sorry that I spent my money on quality, foreign automobiles. Don't you want the best for your money? I suspect that the UAW is the major cause of the problem with the US auto manufacturing market. Their labor rates are not competitive. However, I would guess that at least some former UAW workers, who were laid off, are now final assembling Japanese cars. I want the best for my money and that excludes all Asian cars. My 12 year old Crown Vic is running just fine, thank you. My 42 year old Dodge and 40 year old Plymouth are appreciating in value. I do not see much in the way of collector interest directed at Asian cars. Link to post Share on other sites
bvrat5199 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Gravy trains over GM employees . Better be careful - your job maybe too when this is said and done. Karma is a fical bitch. I don't think people realize how deep these roots go. It isn't just the UAW workers either - its the white collar middle managers that will be hurting the most. Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaTornado Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 PS dad....... it's NOT true about the UAW workers working for Asian plants...... they REFUSE to hire them. Just ask the one's trying to get a job at West Pointe Kia....... they aren't having any part of it! Link to post Share on other sites
NewsJunky Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Bet be careful - your job maybe too when this is said and done. Karma is a fical bitch. This WILL have far reaching effects on other businesses! Link to post Share on other sites
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