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tundra

Secret meetings, code names, forgetting about minutes

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#149

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 02:52 PM

 

I don't give up one red dime of my own money to post on this site nor will I support any business that advertises on this site and that is what is important to me - and YOU can take that to the bank. I could care less about silly little post counts.

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Actually, Whitey, boycotts in American history have a much more mixed record than you suggest.

 

You're probably remembering the boycotts of the 60s that were performed by blacks in cities like B'ham which actually were less effective than the 'sit ins' ... they were two totally different guerrilla tactics and were modest in their impacts.

 

Other boycotts, a tactic which on an "international' scale is called an embargo, have been total disasters. The embargo of Cuba, which has lasted 50 years at first pushed Cuba firmly into the arms of the Soviets and that blunder led directly to the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962 which frankly, we are all blessed to have survived. Another impact was the Cuban boat people who ran away from the island in the 80s and added to the immigration issues that extend even until today.

 

Going back to the early days of the Republic, Thomas Jefferson's use of an embargo of raw materials (Cotton) from the British in a dispute with them caused great economic hardship here and pushed the Brits to push for colonization in Egypt where cotton could also be grown. Of course that one ended with the war of 1812 and, in a little remembered fact, the American victory in that conflict - Jackson's defeat of the British in New Orleans, actually occurred after the peace treaty was signed.

 

Boycotts, by nature, are fraught with unintended consequences, many of which are irreparable.

 

But hey, we're all adults; free and independent individuals and we all do what we have to do.

 

Still, I stand by the statement, Whitey, Boycotts were a bad idea then and they're a bad idea now.

 

pubby

Do you have a better idea to bring a Chamber of Commerce under control, If so I am all ears. A non profit has no business supporting commercialization of the airport unless of course the members of that organization are in support of the planes zooming in over Hiram and Yorkville.

I have talked to several members of the chamber and most are not in support of the chamber openly supporting the airport, Fact is some have said that they will not pay dues again when they are due.

Some of my TAX DOLLARS GO to this non profit organization and I resent the use of my tax dollars going to support paying for full page ads to support something that can be so devastating to this Community.

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Well, this call for a boycott isn't making sense to me. I thought you are were banding together in order to save Paulding County. Yet here you are looking to destroy small business IN Paulding county.

 

Well, I guess that it's your way or the highway is your way of thinking.

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Well, this call for a boycott isn't making sense to me. I thought you are were banding together in order to save Paulding County. Yet here you are looking to destroy small business IN Paulding county.

 

Well, I guess that it's your way or the highway is your way of thinking.

Really..... Do you really think small business is behind the Support Paulding airport group?

 

Do you really think that small business are supporting the chamber in this endeavor??

 

So you are okay with a non profit using Paulding County tax dollars to further a project that a majority of the citizens do not want?

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Well, this call for a boycott isn't making sense to me. I thought you are were banding together in order to save Paulding County. Yet here you are looking to destroy small business IN Paulding county.

 

Well, I guess that it's your way or the highway is your way of thinking.

 

See, we don't have to do anything as a group, no group is encouraging a boycott. I was merely pointing out that many of us have done this at one time or another regarding something that affects us. Individually we make those choices all the time.

 

Destroying people's quality of life has a HUGE impact.

Edited by tundra

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Do you have a better idea to bring a Chamber of Commerce under control, If so I am all ears. A non profit has no business supporting commercialization of the airport unless of course the members of that organization are in support of the planes zooming in over Hiram and Yorkville.

I have talked to several members of the chamber and most are not in support of the chamber openly supporting the airport, Fact is some have said that they will not pay dues again when they are due.

Some of my TAX DOLLARS GO to this non profit organization and I resent the use of my tax dollars going to support paying for full page ads to support something that can be so devastating to this Community.

 

Yes, let the power and persuasiveness of your arguments sway their minds ... of course you have to have persuasive arguments.

 

When your next sentence is - parsed - set to read: A non-profit (Chamber of Commerce) has no business supporting commercialization ...(fill in the blank) it tends to leave people wondering how well you thought through your proposition.

 

You may as well say: A non-profit (Airport Authority) has no business supporting commercialization of the airport ... when it is in fact chartered to do that very thing just as the Chamber is chartered to support business and commercial interests in the community.

 

Tundra, or any Chamber member is free to renew or not renew their membership for what ever reason they choose.

 

But there is a vast difference between that and encouraging people on the street to boycott local businesses on the basis of them being a chamber member.

 

Beyond that, if you have an issue, work with the candidates of your choice. There are elections where, presumably, ideas matter.

 

pubby

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<br />Really..... Do you really think small business is behind the Support Paulding airport group?<br /><br /> Do you really think that small business are supporting the chamber in this endeavor??<br /><br />So you are okay with a non profit using Paulding County tax dollars to further a project that a majority of the citizens do not want?<br />
<br /><br /><br />

 

The Chamber's top priority is the local business community, not every citizen in the county, though hopefully the interests of both groups are similar.

 

As for what the "majority of citizens" want, neither you nor the anti-expansion people nor the pro-expansion group have been able to prove what the community at large wants. We'll see what the voters want when the BOC races are settled later this year.

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<br />Really..... Do you really think small business is behind the Support Paulding airport group?<br /><br /> Do you really think that small business are supporting the chamber in this endeavor??<br /><br />So you are okay with a non profit using Paulding County tax dollars to further a project that a majority of the citizens do not want?<br />
<br /><br /><br />

 

Whitey, what the hell are you talking about?

 

Do I really think that small business are supporting the chamber in this endeavor? I think that their focus is growing their small business PERIOD.

 

As far as a majority of the citizens not wanting the airport......bull. How many people are in your group? 10, maybe 20? Give me a break.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, I really don't think your group has an impact on ANY of it. You would like to think that they do, but they don't......not really.

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<br /><br /><br />

 

Whitey, what the hell are you talking about?

 

Do I really think that small business are supporting the chamber in this endeavor? I think that their focus is growing their small business PERIOD.

 

As far as a majority of the citizens not wanting the airport......bull. How many people are in your group? 10, maybe 20? Give me a break.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, I really don't think your group has an impact on ANY of it. You would like to think that they do, but they don't......not really.

Their is one sure way to find out... Lets vote on it winner take all.

 

Sounds pretty good to me. I don't have a group nor am I speaking for any group. I am expressing my views though.

 

next time you are out shopping/dining look for the little decal on the door and ask them what they think about the Chamber's involvement in the airport. And ask if they agree with the secret dealings the chamber was involved with, And above all ask them are they okay with their tax dollars being spent on full page ads by folks that do not even live in the County?

Then get back with me and let me know how them folks respond.... I have been out there I know.

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#149

User is offline Beach Bum

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 02:52 PM

 

I don't give up one red dime of my own money to post on this site nor will I support any business that advertises on this site and that is what is important to me - and YOU can take that to the bank. I could care less about silly little post counts.

 

Well bless your heart - you need to catch up. I already responded to this in post 26 of this VERY thread. :) I changed my mind. :)

 

Oh and by the way, I am a woman, therefore, I can change my mind often if I so choose. :)

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<br />Their is one sure way to find out... Lets vote on it winner take all. <br /><br />Sounds pretty good to me. I don't have a group nor am I speaking for any group. I am expressing my views though.<br /><br />next time you are out shopping/dining look for the little decal on the door and ask them what they think about the Chamber's involvement in the airport. And ask if they agree with the secret dealings the chamber was involved with, And above all ask them are they okay with their tax dollars being spent on full page ads by folks that do not even live in the County?<br />Then get back with me and let me know how them folks respond.... I have been out there I know.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

 

Do you have proof that tax dollars were used Whitey? I don't know what the membership fees are here in Paulding but according to what I read, the fees range between 300 - 1000.

 

Just exactly what amount do you pay to the county every year Whitey? The way you talk, I would think it would be tens of thousands!

 

You don't like the leadership Whitey, that's fine. Fight with them. Leave the people who want progress as well as local small businesses out of it.

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I have been boycotting the following business for years, Service Merchandise, Woolco, Chi-Chi's, Big Star, Richway, Zayre's and many more.

(oh yeh, Freds in Dallas)

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<br />Well bless your heart - you need to catch up.  I already responded to this in post 26 of this VERY thread. <img src='http://paulding.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />   I changed my mind. <img src='http://paulding.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /><br /><br />Oh and by the way, I am a woman, therefore, I can change my mind often if I so choose. <img src='http://paulding.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /><br />
<br /><br /><br />

 

I know,that's why I posted it again,thought you might have changed again.;-)

 

 

How come BB gets smiley's?.......She threatened to boycott and never pay!But now she pays and has smiley's?

 

Pokin at ya BB

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<br /><br /><br />

 

I know,that's why I posted it again,thought you might have changed again.;-)

 

 

How come BB gets smiley's?.......She threatened to boycott and never pay!But now she pays and has smiley's?

 

Pokin at ya BB

 

Love my smileys! :)

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<br /><br /><br />

 

I know,that's why I posted it again,thought you might have changed again.;-)

 

 

How come BB gets smiley's?.......She threatened to boycott and never pay!But now she pays and has smiley's?

 

Pokin at ya BB

 

:) Some :) of :) us :) are :) special :)

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I have been boycotting the following business for years, Service Merchandise, Woolco, Chi-Chi's, Big Star, Richway, Zayre's and many more.

(oh yeh, Freds in Dallas)

 

What do you have against Fred's in Dallas stradial? :) Wait.........did Fred's close?

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<br /><img src='http://paulding.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> <b>Some</b> <img src='http://paulding.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> <b>of</b> <img src='http://paulding.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> <b>us</b> <img src='http://paulding.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> <b>are</b> <img src='http://paulding.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> <b>special</b> <img src='http://paulding.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /><br />
<br /><br /><br />

Derned special so an so's

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Yes, let the power and persuasiveness of your arguments sway their minds ... of course you have to have persuasive arguments.

 

When your next sentence is - parsed - set to read: A non-profit (Chamber of Commerce) has no business supporting commercialization ...(fill in the blank) it tends to leave people wondering how well you thought through your proposition.

 

You may as well say: A non-profit (Airport Authority) has no business supporting commercialization of the airport ... when it is in fact chartered to do that very thing just as the Chamber is chartered to support business and commercial interests in the community.

 

Tundra, or any Chamber member is free to renew or not renew their membership for what ever reason they choose.

 

But there is a vast difference between that and encouraging people on the street to boycott local businesses on the basis of them being a chamber member.

 

Beyond that, if you have an issue, work with the candidates of your choice. There are elections where, presumably, ideas matter.

 

pubby

Well since you are a candidate are you okay with the CEO/President attending the early morning meetings and Covertly voting to lease out parts of the airport, Then voting on a coded resolution to commercialization of the airport complete with passenger service which lasted about 29 seconds ,with none of the details in any of the minutes then secretly kept it from Post commissioner Todd Pownall, And at the same time attending a two day offsite discussing the 139 certification, And by all means do not even issue minutes of that meeting until the issue was raised in a court hearing of these meetings until the time limits has ran out then run a full page ad implying how open and above board the authorities are and then sending out a e-mail attempting to dispel so called myths with facts, Them joining the Austin Brothers in loaning $1,000,000 to basically each other, And voting to change A constitutional amendment that had been in place since 1962 to circumvent a court case and to give the authorities unlimited rights to the tax payers dollars and then voting to make the tax payers responsible for paying off a contract that they made to the sum of $2,900,000 or was it $3,900,000 all the while serving on a authority that had previously PLEDGED to the citizens that no tax dollars would be used to construct the airport and above all else, there would never ever be any passenger planes.

Pubby AKA G Patton (PAT) Hughes just where do you stand today on the above issues.... I knew where you stood before you qualified last week but I am not sure where you stand today

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<br /><br /><br />

 

Do you have proof that tax dollars were used Whitey? I don't know what the membership fees are here in Paulding but according to what I read, the fees range between 300 - 1000.

 

Just exactly what amount do you pay to the county every year Whitey? The way you talk, I would think it would be tens of thousands!

 

You don't like the leadership Whitey, that's fine. Fight with them. Leave the people who want progress as well as local small businesses out of it.

Thanks for the advice but........... I believe I will handle this my way.

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<br />Thanks for the advice but........... I believe I will handle this my way.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

 

So, you have no proof that tax dollars were used? You are OK with getting on this board and saying tax dollars were used when you have no proof?

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<br />Yes there are tax dollars going to the Chamber of Commerce.  It's all right here.  <a href='http://www.paulding.gov/DocumentCenter/View/3280' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='external'>http://www.paulding....enter/View/3280</a><br />
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />141 page document.  Do you by chance know what page sets out the disbursement to the Chamber?  I would consider some tax dollars from the county to the Chamber of Commerce as a matter of the course of business.  Can your group prove that tax dollars were used for the full page ad?  You know, the one that is referenced in Whiteys post?
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<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />141 page document.  Do you by chance know what page sets out the disbursement to the Chamber?  I would consider some tax dollars from the county to the Chamber of Commerce as a matter of the course of business.  Can your group prove that tax dollars were used for the full page ad?  You know, the one that is referenced in Whiteys post?

But they are showing you proof that tax dollars were used! Can't you see??? Oh wait, you asked for proof for a specific claim they are making. Well, can't you see it? It probably doesn't even say it was used to run those adds or any other things like that but "they all know it was' ;) Oh hold on, if it isn't specified what the tax dollars were used for then it's because "it was hidden from citizens on purpose".

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<br /><br /><br />

 

So, you have no proof that tax dollars were used? You are OK with getting on this board and saying tax dollars were used when you have no proof?

Rockysmom I also have the 990 forms filed by the Paulding County Chamber of commerce that are required by law to be filed by a organization exempt from Income tax.

If the information that Tundra provided is not sufficient I will be more than happy to provide you a copy of these forms. Just let me know?

Oh BTW it appears that this organization is over spending on something.

one year even though the salaries was reduced to $318,922 The organization was $52,865 dollars in the red fact is for the years that I have copies of the organization was in the red both years, I guess that is one reason that the PCAA has never been profitable and has since day one cost the tax payers money

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<br />Rockysmom I also have the 990 forms filed by the Paulding County Chamber of commerce that are required by law to be filed by a organization exempt from Income tax.<br />If the information that Tundra provided is not sufficient I will be more than happy to provide you a copy of these forms. Just let me know?<br />Oh BTW it appears that this organization is over spending on something.<br /> one year even though the salaries was reduced to $318,922 The organization was $52,865 dollars in the red fact is for the  years that I have copies of the organization was in the red both years, I guess that is one reason that the PCAA has never been profitable and has since day one cost the tax payers money<br />
<br /><br /><br />

 

Just more smoke and mirrors Whitey. I'm sorry but you and your group has lost creditably as far as I'm concerned. The kicker was when you said 200-300 additional cars an hour would be FLOODING 278.

 

Oh well, if you are that unprofessional as well as inflammatory in your approach you really have no claim to your fame in this issue. You want the Austin's out and I believe you are using this issue as a stepping stone. Trouble is, not one of you is doing it well.

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Well since you are a candidate are you okay with the CEO/President attending the early morning meetings and Covertly voting to lease out parts of the airport, Then voting on a coded resolution to commercialization of the airport complete with passenger service which lasted about 29 seconds ,with none of the details in any of the minutes then secretly kept it from Post commissioner Todd Pownall, And at the same time attending a two day offsite discussing the 139 certification, And by all means do not even issue minutes of that meeting until the issue was raised in a court hearing of these meetings until the time limits has ran out then run a full page ad implying how open and above board the authorities are and then sending out a e-mail attempting to dispel so called myths with facts, Them joining the Austin Brothers in loaning $1,000,000 to basically each other, And voting to change A constitutional amendment that had been in place since 1962 to circumvent a court case and to give the authorities unlimited rights to the tax payers dollars and then voting to make the tax payers responsible for paying off a contract that they made to the sum of $2,900,000 or was it $3,900,000 all the while serving on a authority that had previously PLEDGED to the citizens that no tax dollars would be used to construct the airport and above all else, there would never ever be any passenger planes.

Pubby AKA G Patton (PAT) Hughes just where do you stand today on the above issues.... I knew where you stood before you qualified last week but I am not sure where you stand today

 

Whitey:

 

They did what they did. They were within their rights under the law to do what they did. I judge what they did on the merits of the project.

 

That said, I would hope - I would think - that I would be involved enough to first of all know what was going on.

 

Second, as I do believe in the public's right to know, I would have figured a way to communicate what I feel was great news more adroitly than having it announced by the AJC and TV three months after the retreat. The contract may have been written a bit differently and may have been silent on some issues at the beginning (requiring an additional contract at

 

There are two key things to keep in mind.

 

The first thing I know that you and some others would have opposed it regardless of how it would be presented.

 

Second, the inevitability of the project and its importance to the economic future of the county and its residents would have given me the courage to ask the question of approving the item be placed on the agenda, allowed it to lay on the table for two weeks and then have the authority agree to it after a period of public discussion.

 

I have no doubt that those on that board or on the county commission would endure a hellacious two weeks. They might be cajoled, threatened, argued with and more but I have confidence that those same people - those same LEADERS - who are being vilified now would understand that despite the arguments they would hear, their decision at that time is and was a good one for the future of the county. The measure would have passed by the same majority and the system would have been celebrated, rather than criticized.

 

The point is, when something needs to be done like this needs to be done, then waiting two weeks and listening to folks and not just saying you have nothing to hide but showing you have nothing to hide, will result in it happening with the least amount of drama. The best leaders have the confidence to do this.

 

This is not to say that our leadership is not good or even great; rather it is simply acknowledging that on my part, the leaders we have learned much of their leadership by seeing the sometimes not too great leaders do things the way they were done here. Heck, the entire state of Georgia, going back to its history of sole commissioners who were both executive and legislator in one body (Talk about problems with open meetings law when the sole commissioner, when awake, constitutes a quorum of one) it is no wonder.

 

The point is what I'm suggesting is simply a different way of doing business. I'm about doing a campaign differently (you'll see soon) and when it comes to governing, I'm about accomplishing what can't be accomplished with law, with process.

 

And that process is simply based on the notion that one of the main antidotes to the world of instant gratification is delayed gratification. I think government should lay every new ordinance, some of its spending requests, and some other stuff on the table two weeks ... out in the open and with the champion of the measure being either the sponsoring commissioner (or chairman) or a member of the county staff.

 

Government is supposed to be thoughtful, government is supposed to be wise, government is supposed to be deliberate and government is supposed to be deliberative and most of all, government doesn't need to be in too big a hurry as a rule.

 

Now all that said ... there are exceptions and sometimes rules need to be broken. (Recognize I use the term rule as opposed to laws.)

 

Yes, I say that we need to talk, we need to think, we need to reason, we need to think some more and then, after about two weeks, we need to act if that seems like the thing to do.

 

Even with the flood and snowmeggeddon - no county ordinances passed regarding either - which were handled appropriately by public safety and the county's executive powers; there were no extremely urgent bits of government business that couldn't be handled by the board of commissioners.

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I am thankful that our Board of Commissioners, IBA, Airport Authority, Economic Development and Chamber all work so well together for the betterment of our community.

 

I have observed other communities in which these entities did not work so well together - talk about dysfunction! I have witnessed communities that can't even hardly hold a board meeting without a fist fight breaking out. I have witnessed areas where every single board member was "at odds" with each other for one reason or another.

 

Whitey, tundra, etc., I know you would love for everyone to jump on your bandwagon and believe that "it is all bad"; however, it is not. Paulding County is very "fiscally fit" and responsible, they enjoy a great bond rating, and we are fortunate enough to have leaders who truly care about our community and its citizens. Will they always make decisions that please everybody? Absolutely not. That is simply not possible.

 

I guess (I've never really tried it), if you look long and hard enough at anything in life, you can find something wrong. I know there will always be negatives in every situation but I will continue to focus on the positives. Life is simply too short. I realize life can change in the blink of an eye but thus far, focusing on the positives has served me well. :)

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I am thankful that our Board of Commissioners, IBA, Airport Authority, Economic Development and Chamber all work so well together for the betterment of our community.

 

I have observed other communities in which these entities did not work so well together - talk about dysfunction! I have witnessed communities that can't even hardly hold a board meeting without a fist fight breaking out. I have witnessed areas where every single board member was "at odds" with each other for one reason or another.

 

Whitey, tundra, etc., I know you would love for everyone to jump on your bandwagon and believe that "it is all bad"; however, it is not. Paulding County is very "fiscally fit" and responsible, they enjoy a great bond rating, and we are fortunate enough to have leaders who truly care about our community and its citizens. Will they always make decisions that please everybody? Absolutely not. That is simply not possible.

 

I guess (I've never really tried it), if you look long and hard enough at anything in life, you can find something wrong. I know there will always be negatives in every situation but I will continue to focus on the positives. Life is simply too short. I realize life can change in the blink of an eye but thus far, focusing on the positives has served me well. :)

 

Well said BB.

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I was able to obtain this video showing the lengths that have been gone to in order to keep secrets from the public.

It is shocking to see the extreme measures they will take to keep things secret.

 

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Let me say this as well Whitey:

 

The notion that things should, as a matter of course, lay on the table for two weeks is a position I've had for some time. I've made the suggestion to David, I've made the suggestion to Todd; I've made the suggestion to Tommie ... all at least once and all going back several years. I even made the suggestion to I know Jerry Shearin and I probably did to Bill Carruth and Mike Pope when he was a post commissioner.

 

I don't recall making the suggestion to David Barnett or David Carmichael but I may have.

 

This suggestion represents a major procedural change that impacts the right of people to know.

 

The current situation is basically just how business is done. Just as you wouldn't shoot a dog for not eating with a knife, fork and spoon, you ought not condemn a politician for voting on items with little public discussion moments after they are proposed. This is how they think government is done because that is the way it always has been done here.

 

What a lot of you may not understand is that the business of government is not done like that everywhere. Heck, even the city of Dallas used to have a rule that proposed ordinances had to be introduced and had to lay on the table for 30 days before they could be voted upon. I think Mayor Boyd Austin engineered a change in that rule - it is not followed any more because it slows things down - but I personally thought it was a good rule.

 

The county used to have its planning and zoning meetings on Thursday nights with the vote being scheduled the following Tuesday. That caused an issue with the commission which when a contentious zoning project came to pass, ended up with the commissioners being lobbied by those both for and against the developments over that weekend. I believe it was in 1998 (after I left the Neighbor) that the county moved zoning meetings to the afternoon of the county's evening meeting allowing zonings to be 'heard' at 2 p.m. and passed at 7 p.m.

 

As the fumbling of papers etc. in the zoning of Palisades later proved, that too was a bad idea.

 

Government, as a rule, should be deliberate. It is more representative when it deliberates and is deliberate.

 

George Patton "Pat" Hughes (aka: pubby)

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<br /><br /><br />

 

Just more smoke and mirrors Whitey. I'm sorry but you and your group has lost creditably as far as I'm concerned. The kicker was when you said 200-300 additional cars an hour would be FLOODING 278.

 

Oh well, if you are that unprofessional as well as inflammatory in your approach you really have no claim to your fame in this issue. You want the Austin's out and I believe you are using this issue as a stepping stone. Trouble is, not one of you is doing it well.

Really I supported David Austin Both Times he ran sat beside him in the Commissioners meeting when he ran against Shearin. Stayed with David until he started breaking campaign promises and started lying to cover up his irresponsible actions.

All I am looking for is what was promised the citizens, no claim to fame for me you and David can have that.

 

One plane coming and one plane going per hour will easily put 200 to 300 vehicles per hour on 278 if you are okay with that fine with me. ..........Hey if the majority of folks in Paulding are okay with it I am fine with that also but....... I would like to have a vote on it.

I do think that tax dollars should be spent a bit more wiser.

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<br />Really I supported David Austin Both Times he ran sat beside him in the Commissioners meeting when he ran against Shearin. Stayed with David until he started breaking campaign promises and started lying to cover up his irresponsible actions.<br />All I am looking for is what was promised the citizens, no claim to fame for me you and David can have that.<br /><br /> One plane coming and one plane going per hour will easily put 200 to 300 vehicles per hour on 278 if you are okay with that fine with me. ..........Hey if the majority of folks in Paulding are okay with it I am fine with that also but....... I would like to have a vote on it.<br />I do think that tax dollars should be spent a bit more wiser.<br />
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I am more than sure that the majority of flights will be departures. We will see about arrivals.

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<br /><br /><br />

 

I am more than sure that the majority of flights will be departures. We will see about arrivals.

well if you leave from here and park your vehicle here sooner or later you got to come and pick it up.

 

How did that plane that you departed on get here??? Did it come in empty? Yea sure it did

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Pubby I was going to answer your two post tonight but........ I have decided to wait and see if you change your mind again you sure are being wishy washy., I know your position will change again before I finish

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Whitey:

 

They did what they did. They were within their rights under the law to do what they did. I judge what they did on the merits of the project.

 

That said, I would hope - I would think - that I would be involved enough to first of all know what was going on.

 

Second, as I do believe in the public's right to know, I would have figured a way to communicate what I feel was great news more adroitly than having it announced by the AJC and TV three months after the retreat.  The contract may have been written a bit differently and may have been silent on some issues at the beginning (requiring an additional contract at

 

There are two key things to keep in mind.

 

The first thing I know that you and some others would have opposed it regardless of how it would be presented.

 

Second, the inevitability of the project and its importance to the economic future of the county and its residents would have given me the courage to ask the question of approving the item be placed on the agenda, allowed it to lay on the table for two weeks and then have the authority agree to it after a period of public discussion.

 

I have no doubt that those on that board or on the county commission would endure a hellacious two weeks.  They might be cajoled, threatened, argued with and more but  I have confidence that those same people - those same LEADERS -  who are being vilified now would understand that despite the arguments they would hear, their decision at that time is and was a good one for the future of the county.  The measure would have passed by the same majority and the system would have been celebrated, rather than criticized.

 

The point is, when something needs to be done like this needs to be done, then waiting two weeks and listening to folks and not just saying you have nothing to hide but showing you have nothing to hide, will result in it happening with the least amount of drama.  The best leaders have the confidence to do this.

 

This is not to say that our leadership is not good or even great; rather it is simply acknowledging that on my part, the leaders we have learned much of their leadership by seeing the sometimes not too great leaders do things the way they were done here.  Heck, the entire state of Georgia, going back to its history of sole commissioners who were both executive and legislator in one body (Talk about problems with open meetings law when the sole commissioner, when awake, constitutes a quorum of one) it is no wonder.

 

The point is what I'm suggesting is simply a different way of doing business.  I'm about doing a campaign differently (you'll see soon) and when it comes to governing, I'm about accomplishing what can't be accomplished with law, with process.

 

And that process is simply based on the notion that one of the main antidotes to the world of instant gratification is delayed gratification. I think government should lay every new ordinance, some of its spending requests, and some other stuff on the table two weeks ... out in the open and with the champion of the measure being either the sponsoring commissioner (or chairman) or a member of the county staff.

 

Government is supposed to be thoughtful, government is supposed to be wise, government is supposed to be deliberate and government is supposed to be deliberative and most of all, government doesn't need to be in too big a hurry as a rule.

 

Now all that said ... there are exceptions and sometimes rules need to be broken. (Recognize I use the term rule as opposed to laws.)

 

Yes, I say that we need to talk, we need to think, we need to reason, we need to think some more and then, after about two weeks, we need to act if that seems like the thing to do.

 

Even with the flood and snowmeggeddon - no county ordinances passed regarding either - which were handled appropriately by public safety and the county's executive powers; there were no extremely urgent bits of government business that couldn't be handled by the board of commissioners.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope people take the time to really let your idea sink in maybe read it a second time.

I don't think people really realize the deep thought and consideration that went into your reasoning.

 

I probably know you better than most.

 

I came into local political awareness more recently than many.

I don't remember being aware of the airport before I came to work for you.

In fact the first time I was truly aware is when Bob called who lives at the end of the airport runway and told me his situation.

I had to ask Pubby about the airport.

I probably know more about the early days than some that have jumped on this cause.

Bob wanted us to tell his story and Pubby wanted Bob to tell his story directly on here.

I heard from Bob time to time over the years.

 

I always knew there would one day be many planes in and out there regardless of size they would be there.

 

I have heard plenty of stories over the years about the ugly side of progress.

I always felt compassion for those that had sad tales.

 

I have realized that those whose homes and lives are deeply and profoundly changed by the decisions of those with power need to be heard.

 

They need that pain to at least be acknowledged and respected by those that have inflicted it.

 

It does not mean that the progress or change will be stopped by giving these people a chance to speak out.

 

Not, listening, not caring, and not respecting causes those in our community to be deeply wounded and distrustful.

 

Things have got to change, every issue like this, every election leaves walking wounded, hatred, and vengeance.

 

My heart goes out to everyone that has been hurt, ignored, and disrespected as this county has progressed.

 

I still stand behind progress, I have no objection to the limited commercial service that will come with a single runway.

 

In the end the powerful always get their way. They lose nothing by listening and respecting those that feel a deep and personal loss over the progress in our community.

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Pubby I was going to answer your two post tonight but........ I have decided to wait and see if you change your mind again you sure are being wishy washy., I know your position will change again before I finish

 

Hell Whitey, I haven't changed my position.

 

It just when you see a snail, I see an escargot.

 

pubby

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The current situation is basically just how business is done. Just as you wouldn't shoot a dog for not eating with a knife, fork and spoon, you ought not condemn a politician for voting on items with little public discussion moments after they are proposed. This is how they think government is done because that is the way it always has been done here.

 

 

 

 

This very well may be the goofiest sheeze I have heard you say yet. Really? They just don't know any better? Really? They are grown-ass men for crying out loud! Any human being with just a rudimentary understanding of the legislative process knows exactly what you get when you steam roll legislation through with little to no public input: Bad legislation and a pissed off public--and you know the saying--it is much easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission.

 

It the BOC was comprised of infants then your illustration above would make sense, but it isn't. They are grown men-most of whom have a remarkable amount of business acumen under their belts.

 

With that said, I wholeheartedly agree with your vision of deliberate government conducted at such a pace that at least lends itself to be, well, for better or worse, deliberate.

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Satellite:

 

If they were handling other stuff any differently, you could make that claim.

 

They don't. It was the same when they eliminated the drive thru windows for beer in the unincorporated county back in the 1990s (a move that put Patrick Lanzo on his increasingly out-there trajectory); it was true when they wrote a zoning ordinance in violation of the ADA (opinion) requiring all houses with more than two people not married living in the same abode - a group home - even an organized one - to be on a minimum of three acres and a whole host of other hoops; it was the same when they re-wrote the taxi law; when they put in the development overlay for Bill Carruth, the 911 center software, the purchase of radios for the SO, etc. all these things are introduced and passed the same day.

 

I know that say purchasing has been in discussions with the folks in public safety and had those discussions but sometimes, after the fact, I hear that there were key decision makers that it was not though important to contact and engage in an issue until after it had become law.

 

If what is done is, to take an analogy from school, "C" work or better, you probably don't hear about it. The people complaining are left bloody on the floor and everyone can more or less muddle through.

 

And I've been observing it for two and a half decades satellite.

 

Now you're going to come here and tell me that it is great to introduce the ordinance that ... oh defines obscenity in Paulding at 10:00 am and pass it at 2 p.m. that same day because it is such a simple subject. (I mention it because it was the law that carved out the loophole for Lanzo's Georgia Peach Museum and strip bar and, the week it was enacted, the style section of the Paulding Neighbor had a woman skiing in a bikini bathing suit on its front page that appeared to be in violation of the law.) Of course you were probably four or five years old when that happened ... is the way things ought to be. That doesn't need to change because it only looks like you're shoving laws down peoples throats when you don't like the new law.

 

pubby

 

PS: Glenn Richardson was the county attorney when the ordinance closing Lanzo's drive thru window in Draketown was passed. I believe he got the order to cease selling beer through it by 5 p.m. that afternoon. It was introduced at 10, passed at 2 pm and there were orders for him to padlock by 5 p.m.

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Satellite:

 

If they were handling other stuff any differently, you could make that claim.

 

They don't. It was the same when they eliminated the drive thru windows for beer in the unincorporated county back in the 1990s (a move that put Patrick Lanzo on his increasingly out-there trajectory); it was true when they wrote a zoning ordinance in violation of the ADA (opinion) requiring all houses with more than two people not married living in the same abode - a group home - even an organized one - to be on a minimum of three acres and a whole host of other hoops; it was the same when they re-wrote the taxi law; when they put in the development overlay for Bill Carruth, the 911 center software, the purchase of radios for the SO, etc. all these things are introduced and passed the same day.

 

I know that say purchasing has been in discussions with the folks in public safety and had those discussions but sometimes, after the fact, I hear that there were key decision makers that it was not though important to contact and engage in an issue until after it had become law.

 

If what is done is, to take an analogy from school, "C" work or better, you probably don't hear about it. The people complaining are left bloody on the floor and everyone can more or less muddle through.

 

And I've been observing it for two and a half decades satellite.

 

Now you're going to come here and tell me that it is great to introduce the ordinance that ... oh defines obscenity in Paulding at 10:00 am and pass it at 2 p.m. that same day because it is such a simple subject. (I mention it because it was the law that carved out the loophole for Lanzo's Georgia Peach Museum and strip bar and, the week it was enacted, the style section of the Paulding Neighbor had a woman skiing in a bikini bathing suit on its front page that appeared to be in violation of the law.) Of course you were probably four or five years old when that happened ... is the way things ought to be. That doesn't need to change because it only looks like you're shoving laws down peoples throats when you don't like the new law.

 

pubby

 

PS: Glenn Richardson was the county attorney when the ordinance closing Lanzo's drive thru window in Draketown was passed. I believe he got the order to cease selling beer through it by 5 p.m. that afternoon. It was introduced at 10, passed at 2 pm and there were orders for him to padlock by 5 p.m.

 

 

Apparently, you grossly misinterpreted my comment--and quite frankly, I could have misinterpreted yours. I was agreeing with you that local proposals should be, just as you said, deliberate.

 

I disagreed with your statement about 'they shouldn't be condemned.'

 

I think you should probably go back and re-read exactly what I quoted from you and what I stated. Your response has be literally staring at my screen trying to figure out what on earth you are talking about (as it relates to what I said).

 

:huh:

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