How does the financial bail out make you feel

[gpatt0n]

The word was that the world-wide financial system was within hours of, according to some, a catastrophic collapse.

 

Whether that is true or not is certainly debatable but we all know that both the President and the Congress were impressed enough to cough up another $700 billion in addition to the bail out of AIG and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

 

So, this poll is designed to access your confidence. Your comments are welcome.

[JohnnyJ]

Pubby.

 

The poll did not record my vote.

 

The economic mess will result in the election of Obama [ 0 ] [0.00%]

[lilgallowsmama]

Pubby.

 

The poll did not record my vote.

 

The economic mess will result in the election of Obama [ 0 ] [0.00%]

 

That's ok...it let me vote twice.

[jet_man1969]

You guys worry to much, The foundations of the economy are strong!!

 

Maybe if we say it enough we can convince ourselves it is true.

[lowrider]

I voted and it didn't take mine either.

 

Think PUBBY is out of pocket, again

 

 

 

Regardless, I think Obama will be a shoo-in.

 

Like that's going to fix anything.

[gpatt0n]

I see what was wrong. I included the two votes that Obama will win as noted above. The last question will now take multiple answers. Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

pubby

[Cabe]

Maybe you should combine the two posts while you are at it.

[Baileybleu]

Maybe you should combine the two posts while you are at it.

 

 

 

hahaha you tell him

[Lady Raider]

ok I know I am in for a long explaination of words I will not understand, but PUBBY what do you think?

[PauldingPeach]

Long recession!

[LPPT]

Honestly,

I am am more than a little nervous.

I understand that nobody in this election is going to be a savior for this country.

Our economy effects the world economy.

 

The bottom line is it comes down to individuals, and our acceptance of the leadership in this country, whether it be corporate or government, I see clearly the trickle down effect and that is sh*t flows down hill.

 

When I try to see us pulling out of this, I see darker days ahead before it gets any better.

 

We have several generations that have never seen true hardship.

Broke is when you can't eat out a couple of times a week. Broke is when you can't throw the geegaws in your buggy at the super market. Broke is when you can't buy the new car cause you are so far upside down in the one you are driving.

 

Almost busted is maxed out credit cards, truly broke is not being able to to get out of it by selling the equity in your home.

 

The absolute belief, that their is going to be some type of safety net there if you find yourself in that predicament.

 

The government, a parent, a friend, a church something.

 

And if worse comes to worse you could even work in retail or fastfood.

 

Our housing industry has taotally tanked in this country, and we are now looking at an extremely slow recovery.

 

That leaves us the service industry well guess what, it is totally dependant upon the spending habits of many Americans that now have to stop to keep the roof over their head, or not.

 

We are in the last quarter of the year when retail makes most of it's yearly profits.

The folks working this industry are living on the edge, not making a living wage most times and no benefits, or affordable can not afford benefits, these people will be the ones that may hit the street when sales are down.

 

Many small businesses are also in debt. Mismanagement, corruption, and greed reach all they way to boardrooms of our largest corporations.

 

Like I said, from a practical point of view it doesn't look good. We are here, the day of reckoning for this nation and it's people.

There are no easy solutoins or quick answers to bail us out, we are going to have to tighten up, and change on some very basic levels. We are going to have to start thinking for ourselves, and think a lot differently.

 

I have zero and I mean zero confidence in the leaders of this country, and even less for those running for office now.

 

I can only make a bad decision in november. because it will only be more of the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PauldingPeach]

Honestly,

I am am more than a little nervous.

I understand that nobody in this election is going to be a savior for this country.

Our economy effects the world economy.

 

The bottom line is it comes down to individuals, and our acceptance of the leadership in this country, whether it be corporate or government, I see clearly the trickle down effect and that is sh*t flows down hill.

 

When I try to see us pulling out of this, I see darker days ahead before it gets any better.

 

We have several generations that have never seen true hardship.

Broke is when you can't eat out a couple of times a week. Broke is when you can't throw the geegaws in your buggy at the super market. Broke is when you can't buy the new car cause you are so far upside down in the one you are driving.

 

Almost busted is maxed out credit cards, truly broke is not being able to to get out of it by selling the equity in your home.

 

The absolute belief, that their is going to be some type of safety net there if you find yourself in that predicament.

 

The government, a parent, a friend, a church something.

 

And if worse comes to worse you could even work in retail or fastfood.

 

Our housing industry has taotally tanked in this country, and we are now looking at an extremely slow recovery.

 

That leaves us the service industry well guess what, it is totally dependant upon the spending habits of many Americans that now have to stop to keep the roof over their head, or not.

 

We are in the last quarter of the year when retail makes most of it's yearly profits.

The folks working this industry are living on the edge, not making a living wage most times and no benefits, or affordable can not afford benefits, these people will be the ones that may hit the street when sales are down.

 

Many small businesses are also in debt. Mismanagement, corruption, and greed reach all they way to boardrooms of our largest corporations.

 

Like I said, from a practical point of view it doesn't look good. We are here, the day of reckoning for this nation and it's people.

There are no easy solutoins or quick answers to bail us out, we are going to have to tighten up, and change on some very basic levels. We are going to have to start thinking for ourselves, and think a lot differently.

 

I have zero and I mean zero confidence in the leaders of this country, and even less for those running for office now.

 

I can only make a bad decision in november. because it will only be more of the same.

 

Yeah, what she said.

 

I've already taken the equity out of our home to pay off debt. We have nothing left to fall back on. This economy sucks. It is only going to get worse.

 

[LPPT]

Yeah, what she said.

 

I've already taken the equity out of our home to pay off debt. We have nothing left to fall back on. This economy sucks. It is only going to get worse.

 

What bothers me the most, is I don't want to see people truly suffer, like going without heat, electricity, a roof over their heads, medical care, and food.

This really upsets me that it could come to that.

 

[NewsJunky]

What bothers me the most, is I don't want to see people truly suffer, like going without heat, electricity, a roof over their heads, medical care, and food.

This really upsets me that it could come to that.

 

Those things bother me too. They are happening to people that I know and care about already. I hope our leaders stop throwing stones at each other long enough find a way to get the country back on track!

[JohnnyJ]

What bothers me the most, is I don't want to see people truly suffer, like going without heat, electricity, a roof over their heads, medical care, and food.

This really upsets me that it could come to that.

 

We must have jobs for everyone that pay a decent wage so people can live. Without jobs, the economy will only get worse. Jobs = wages for the people = taxes for the government.

Sadly, the bottom and top wages must be controlled. No one should work all week and be below the poverty level, neither should one's wage be 100 times the bottom wage.

 

[NewsJunky]

We must have jobs for everyone that pay a decent wage so people can live. Without jobs, the economy will only get worse. Jobs = wages for the people = taxes for the government.

Sadly, the bottom and top wages must be controlled. No one should work all week and be below the poverty level, neither should one's wage be 100 times the bottom wage.

People should get paid what their skills are worth. The market is what determines that. Why would a person want to work 16 to 18 hours a day to build a business and then have his money taken away and given to someone else? If I were that person I would just slow down and save my energy.

 

[solosoul]

If Obama gets the office because of this it will be because a great many people do not understand economics

[gpatt0n]

I've messed up somehow. oh well. Apparently once a poll has votes, you can't change it without zero'ing out all the choices and then there is the problem with those who have voted are not allowed to re-vote ...

 

I don't normally play with polls I put up but now we all know that poll tampering (I was trying to add some responses to cover some objections) can have consequences.

 

pubby

[NewsJunky]

I've messed up somehow. oh well. Apparently once a poll has votes, you can't change it without zero'ing out all the choices and then there is the problem with those who have voted are not allowed to re-vote ...

 

I don't normally play with polls I put up but now we all know that poll tampering (I was trying to add some responses to cover some objections) can have consequences.

 

pubby

 

That's OK Pubby! You are allowed.

[LPPT]

People should get paid what their skills are worth. The market is what determines that. Why would a person want to work 16 to 18 hours a day to build a business and then have his money taken away and given to someone else? If I were that person I would just slow down and save my energy.

 

The problem with this is under the the good ole boy system with lobbyist in Washington, it is not about what the market will bear anymore, it is about what the politicians will allow.

 

It is running this country in the ground, that is why I have no faith or hope left, way too much power and we are to complacent to do anyhing about it.

 

[NewsJunky]

The problem with this is under the the good ole boy system with lobbyist in Washington, it is not about what the market will bear anymore, it is about what the politicians will allow.

 

It is running this country in the ground, that is why I have no faith or hope left, way too much power and we are to complacent to do anyhing about it.

 

We just have to find a way to make them clean it up. We can't stop trying and we must not lose faith in what America stands for and the principles upon which it was founded.

 

[The Sound Guy]

Note: I am an engineer, not an econ major, so feel free to argue my points, this is just MHO at this point.

 

I think that we're in trouble for the long run with several causes:

 

1) We've been shoveling debt (Both parties) onto the pile for a long time, but more and more lately as the politicians try to band aid the problems rather than be the ones that promote unpopular, but needed fixes. The debt MUST be faced.

 

2) This particular mess was partially caused by the government trying to interfere with the the free market by attempting to gather support by encouraging lending to people who normally would not qualify. Now to save the system, the government has to pay more money to fix it. Forcing risk by law is a bad idea.

 

3) The tax situation and emphasis on free trade which invites manufacturing to move offshore. Unless a country has an abundance of a raw material that everyone wants, the stronger economies are those that have lots of manufacturing. Only manufacturing creates value by taking raw materials, adding labour and creating a higher value object. When that value making is moved offshore, not only do we lose the tax money from the wages of the people that would have built it here, but since we refuse to put duties on the imported goods equal to those taxes in the name of "Free Trade", the imported goods are cheaper, which means more manufacturing is either closed down or moved. We are well on the way to killing all of our manufacturing. An entire economy cannot be supported by just the profit of reselling someone elses work. My company is failing now and one big reason (I believe) is giving up our manufacturing to another company. We need to implement duties NOW that encourage manufacturing here.

 

4) People tend to think that the past will always continue. "You can't lose! House prices always go up!!" That is a recipe for disaster.

 

Again, JMO

 

Fire away. I might learn something.

 

SG

 

 

 

 

[NewsJunky]

Note: I am an engineer, not an econ major, so feel free to argue my points, this is just MHO at this point.

 

I think that we're in trouble for the long run with several causes:

 

1) We've been shoveling debt (Both parties) onto the pile for a long time, but more and more lately as the politicians try to band aid the problems rather than be the ones that promote unpopular, but needed fixes. The debt MUST be faced.

 

2) This particular mess was partially caused by the government trying to interfere with the the free market by attempting to gather support by encouraging lending to people who normally would not qualify. Now to save the system, the government has to pay more money to fix it. Forcing risk by law is a bad idea.

 

3) The tax situation and emphasis on free trade which invites manufacturing to move offshore. Unless a country has an abundance of a raw material that everyone wants, the stronger economies are those that have lots of manufacturing. Only manufacturing creates value by taking raw materials, adding labour and creating a higher value object. When that value making is moved offshore, not only do we lose the tax money from the wages of the people that would have built it here, but since we refuse to put duties on the imported goods equal to those taxes in the name of "Free Trade", the imported goods are cheaper, which means more manufacturing is either closed down or moved. We are well on the way to killing all of our manufacturing. An entire economy cannot be supported by just the profit of reselling someone elses work. My company is failing now and one big reason (I believe) is giving up our manufacturing to another company. We need to implement duties NOW that encourage manufacturing here.

 

4) People tend to think that the past will always continue. "You can't lose! House prices always go up!!" That is a recipe for disaster.

 

Again, JMO

 

Fire away. I might learn something.

 

SG

 

This is an excellent post! I agree with everything you have said except maybe the part about duties. I may be mistaken but I think corporate taxes are the reason companies leave. I believe America has the highest rate or close to the highest in the world. I know people think the corporations should pay more but if that is why they are leaving mabe we should look at better tax deals instead of import duties!

[The Sound Guy]

This is an excellent post! I agree with everything you have said except maybe the part about duties. I may be mistaken but I think corporate taxes are the reason companies leave. I believe America has the highest rate or close to the highest in the world. I know people think the corporations should pay more but if that is why they are leaving maybe we should look at better tax deals instead of import duties!

 

Good point, corporate taxes are part of it. When the local company is required to pay taxes, but the other is not, of course their prices can be cheaper. so we can either drop the corporate tax rate to zero (the republican and Fair Tax ideal) reducing tax revenue or we can increase duties to match the difference in tax rates and balance the playing field while maintaining revenue.

 

Either one will work in keeping the jobs, and the value they create, here instead of overseas.

 

With our trade imbalance, it's obvious that what little export we lose if we had a "trade war" would be a drop in the bucket to the market we could open up in our own country. Besides, having all the extra manufacturing jobs and the wages that would create here would create demand for most of the products.

 

Its just stupid that a country with all the resources we have has to buy so many goods from overseas. Try finding a pair of shoes that is made in this country. A radio. A computer motherboard. It's insane.

 

SG

 

 

[NewsJunky]

Good point, corporate taxes are part of it. When the local company is required to pay taxes, but the other is not, of course their prices can be cheaper. so we can either drop the corporate tax rate to zero (the republican and Fair Tax ideal) reducing tax revenue or we can increase duties to match the difference in tax rates and balance the playing field while maintaining revenue.

 

Either one will work in keeping the jobs, and the value they create, here instead of overseas.

 

With our trade imbalance, it's obvious that what little export we lose if we had a "trade war" would be a drop in the bucket to the market we could open up in our own country. Besides, having all the extra manufacturing jobs and the wages that would create here would create demand for most of the products.

 

Its just stupid that a country with all the resources we have has to buy so many goods from overseas. Try finding a pair of shoes that is made in this country. A radio. A computer motherboard. It's insane.

 

SG

 

[surepip]

This is an excellent post! I agree with everything you have said except maybe the part about duties. I may be mistaken but I think corporate taxes are the reason companies leave. I believe America has the highest rate or close to the highest in the world. I know people think the corporations should pay more but if that is why they are leaving mabe we should look at better tax deals instead of import duties!

 

Unfortunately you are way off base here. Our Federal tax structure is a basic 25% on true net profits, and that is one of the lowest in the developed countries considered part of the Western World [Europe and some of South America]. We are still the capitalist haven of the western world.

 

But we are no longer competitive in the world market place for the gadgets the consumers want to buy. That has now moved to China, India, Mexico, Brasil and others. We encourage our best and brightest to sit at a keyboard and find loopholes to make obscene profits on paper that in reality do not exist. Hence, we get bonbarded by the consumer goods from other countries, with or without tarriffs, and our guys are out there hacking the systems worldwide trying to make money on paper, instead of making those profits on the sale of real goods. Our own fault, and we are paying the price now worldwide.

 

The Brasilians and Mexicans have taken over the world market on exporting chicken [my expertise] and we are now sucking hind tit trying to just dump our excess dark meat quarters against their market of what the consumers in other countries want to buy. We have been out sold by our students. The student has now surpassed the teacher and we can only blame ourselves.

 

And this translates to many other products as well. We are now selling the BS on the computer, instead of the hard goodst the rest of the world needs to buy in order to live. The Brasilians have taken 2/3 of the export market for chicken. We now settle of less than 15% of our production. And we don't even make a profit on what we export.

 

Time to rethink the whole mess. And the bail of our Wall Street to keep things on an even keel is a short term fix at best. We have to addres the root problem and that is getting back to inventing and building the products the rest of the world wants to buy. We seem to have forgotten how. Time to relearn and get back into the game.

 

And the Wall Street buyout will not fix the problem,.....it will only but a band aid on a hemoraging wound.

[NewsJunky]

Unfortunately you are way off base here. Our Federal tax structure is a basic 25% on true net profits, and that is one of the lowest in the developed countries considered part of the Western World [Europe and some of South America]. We are still the capitalist haven of the western world.

 

But we are no longer competitive in the world market place for the gadgets the consumers want to buy. That has now moved to China, India, Mexico, Brasil and others. We encourage our best and brightest to sit at a keyboard and find loopholes to make obscene profits on paper that in reality do not exist. Hence, we get bonbarded by the consumer goods from other countries, with or without tarriffs, and our guys are out there hacking the systems worldwide trying to make money on paper, instead of making those profits on the sale of real goods. Our own fault, and we are paying the price now worldwide.

 

The Brasilians and Mexicans have taken over the world market on exporting chicken [my expertise] and we are now sucking hind tit trying to just dump our excess dark meat quarters against their market of what the consumers in other countries want to buy. We have been out sold by our students. The student has now surpassed the teacher and we can only blame ourselves.

 

And this translates to many other products as well. We are now selling the BS on the computer, instead of the hard goodst the rest of the world needs to buy in order to live. The Brasilians have taken 2/3 of the export market for chicken. We now settle of less than 15% of our production. And we don't even make a profit on what we export.

 

Time to rethink the whole mess. And the bail of our Wall Street to keep things on an even keel is a short term fix at best. We have to addres the root problem and that is getting back to inventing and building the products the rest of the world wants to buy. We seem to have forgotten how. Time to relearn and get back into the game.

 

And the Wall Street buyout will not fix the problem,.....it will only but a band aid on a hemoraging wound.

 

Sounds like you have done some real homework on this issue! Do you have any ideas on how to get the jobs back for American workers?

[NewsJunky]

Unfortunately you are way off base here. Our Federal tax structure is a basic 25% on true net profits, and that is one of the lowest in the developed countries considered part of the Western World [Europe and some of South America]. We are still the capitalist haven of the western world.

 

I believe you know what you are talking about but I got my info on Corporate taxes from The Tax Foundation. If you don't believe they are correct please tell me where I can find more accurate Info! I have always found you to be very well informed.

 

The Tax Foundation

2001 L Street, N.W.

Suite 1050

Washington, D.C. 20036

 

MARCH 18, 2008

 

U.S. States Lead the World in High Corporate Taxes

by Scott A. Hodge

Fiscal Fact No. 119

America's political leadership is finally waking up to the fact that the tax rates businesses face in the U.S. are way out of step with our major economic competitors. Last year, for example, Ways and Means Chairman Charles Rangel proposed cutting the federal corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 30.5 percent. While a 5 percentage point cut in the federal corporate tax rate may sound significant, it may not be sufficient to meaningfully improve the competitiveness of the United States.

Currently, the average combined federal and state corporate tax rate in the U.S. is 39.3 percent, second among OECD countries to Japan's combined rate of 39.5 percent.1 Lowering the federal rate to 30.5 percent would only lower the U.S.'s ranking to fifth highest among industrialized countries.More recently, other members of Congress—including Sen. John McCain and Congressman Eric Cantor—have released proposals to cut the corporate rate even deeper to 25 percent. While this lower rate would improve the U.S.'s international ranking and competitiveness, that improvement would be mitigated by the high corporate tax rates imposed by many states.

Many states impose state corporate income taxes at rates above the national average of 6.6 percent. Iowa, for example, imposes the highest corporate tax rate of 12 percent, followed by Pennsylvania's 9.99 percent rate and Minnesota's 9.8 percent rate. When added to the federal rate, these states tax their businesses at rates far in excess of all other OECD countries.

When compared to other OECD countries:

• 24 U.S. states have a combined corporate tax rate higher than top-ranked Japan.

• 32 states have a combined corporate tax rate higher than third-ranked Germany.

• 46 states have a combined corporate tax rate higher than fourth-ranked Canada.

• All 50 states have a combined corporate tax rate higher than fifth-ranked France.