Schools may be prohibited from getting early August start

[Cathyhelms]

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you. I don't think a single teacher has said that they know what's best for every one of your kids. However, we're good at what we do, and we care about your children and what's best for them. If I didn't think that having frequent breaks was best for my students, I never would have voted for it. But, I see how they come back--fresh and ready to go, and I see what a difference the breaks make in terms of spreading illnesses (such as the annual Feb. flu outbreak).

 

As for the rest of your post, I'm sure with your superior to Georgia education, you can figure out how to google the answers to those questions. I will advise you, though, that there is not a set of national performance standards, so there is no fair way to determine how Georgia compares on a national level (the ITBS tests on norms, but many of those tests are so outdated that the material is no longer apart of our GPS). However, you'll find that many Paulding County schools rank high in the state--you can search this under the state report card. Hope that helps

 

I've done that, do you really want me to post where Paulding falls???

[aberdeen]

For your argument about Georgia performing as one of the worst states in the country, please read this article. It explains how misleading these facts are.

 

GA Ranks Near Bottom in SAT scores

[Cathyhelms]

I'm sorry if I offended you. There are exceptions to every rule. You obviously got more out of your summers, but it could be because there was no cable, internet, game systems or other distractions from using one's imagination, creating games, and entertaining oneself with nature and life experiences. Our children just grow too fast.

 

After spending 6 months of research on school calendars for my Ed. S. I think I know what the data shows. These are OUR children, you're right. I could care less about how summers are. Actually, I love spending them with my 2 children at home. But being a teacher, I know what's best for all of our children over all. For them to learn, they need schools with year-round education.

 

As for education being better for you than children today, I disagree again. We are teaching students much more than ever was taught in GA schools. It may be different topics than what you learned, and that's another topic entirely about what to teach, but students are getting incredible amounts of information in our schools today.

 

As for heating and cooling costs, I don't agree that it's as big of an issue or cost as you. I just want our children educated....period.

 

Thank you, you did not offend me. I generally have nothing but the utmost respect for teachers. It's the ones that insist they "know" what is best for all the children that upset me. I too want our children educated, my children are grown so it really doesn't affect me the way it does others. I just don't agree that year-round education is the answer.

[Jughaid]

I think this is more a teacher "want" than an education "need". I assure you my public school education was much better than our kids get in Georgia today. Even with our 11 weeks off in the summer. We didn't have the money for me to go to summer camp and I don't appreciate the reference to lower income kids "missing out".

 

I think it should be up to the parents and taxpayers that are footing the bills for the extra heating and cooling required for this calendar, not for the teacher's convenience.

 

That being said, I like the concept I just don't want it legislated.

 

Oh yea, in case you forgot...........these are our children not the teachers' or the Board of Educations'

Can you back up that claim with test scores? You're going to have a hard time proving that assine statement since test scores have gone UP over the last 40 years.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/26/sat-scores-stay-at-lowest_n_121611.html

[NewsJunky]

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you. I don't think a single teacher has said that they know what's best for every one of your kids. However, we're good at what we do, and we care about your children and what's best for them. If I didn't think that having frequent breaks was best for my students, I never would have voted for it. But, I see how they come back--fresh and ready to go, and I see what a difference the breaks make in terms of spreading illnesses (such as the annual Feb. flu outbreak).

 

As for the rest of your post, I'm sure with your superior to Georgia education, you can figure out how to google the answers to those questions. I will advise you, though, that there is not a set of national performance standards, so there is no fair way to determine how Georgia compares on a national level (the ITBS tests on norms, but many of those tests are so outdated that the material is no longer apart of our GPS). However, you'll find that many Paulding County schools rank high in the state--you can search this under the state report card. Hope that helps

Oops, I think the teacher posting just before your post believes she knows what's best for all school children. I am not going to say you are not good at what you do but I will say the system is failing the kids. It isn't working or we would not be at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to test scores. I really don't think that has anything to do with the school calender either.

[ktan458]

I've done that, do you really want me to post where Paulding falls???

 

Again with the rhetorical questions.

[Jughaid]

Why do you believe this? Exactly what about education is not working?

 

After you watch Stossel, I highly recommend you (and anyone who may be stuck on the idea of 'nostalgic' public education) to read Gerald Bracey's books--such as The War on Public Education. Much of what we 'believe' about public education is based on rhetoric and emotion, and not so much on facts.

Shhhh. Don't say any of that too loudly. It let's them score political points, which is more important than the education of children. The facts getting in the way is not good for their politics. Shhhh.

[Cathyhelms]

For your argument about Georgia performing as one of the worst states in the country, please read this article. It explains how misleading these facts are.

 

GA Ranks Near Bottom in SAT scores

 

Oh, I'm not talking about SAT scores. I'm talking about elementary level just compared to the rest of the state, the first Paulding County elementary school is not even ranked in the top 200.

[ktan458]

For your argument about Georgia performing as one of the worst states in the country, please read this article. It explains how misleading these facts are.

 

GA Ranks Near Bottom in SAT scores

 

I need to bookmark that site for the 1843038403293 other times that someone comes on here screaming "Do you even KNOW where GA falls?".

[NewsJunky]

For your argument about Georgia performing as one of the worst states in the country, please read this article. It explains how misleading these facts are.

 

GA Ranks Near Bottom in SAT scores

That is more spin as far as I can tell. Cathy Cox has been terrible in the job she has and she has gotten very good at spinning test results.

[Cathyhelms]

I need to bookmark that site for the 1843038403293 other times that someone comes on here screaming "Do you even KNOW where GA falls?".

 

SAT scores have nothing to do with where Paulding County elementary schools rank compared to the rest of the state.

[Jughaid]

SAT scores have nothing to do with where Paulding County elementary schools rank compared to the rest of the state.

Think that might have something to do with the demographics of our county? What about all that personal responsibility I keep hearing? Shouldn't the parents take the blame for this instead of the government?

[NewsJunky]

Why do you believe this? Exactly what about education is not working?

 

After you watch Stossel, I highly recommend you (and anyone who may be stuck on the idea of 'nostalgic' public education) to read Gerald Bracey's books--such as The War on Public Education. Much of what we 'believe' about public education is based on rhetoric and emotion, and not so much on facts.

I don't need to read that book to know what is happening in our schools. All I have to do is look at Georgia's drop out rate and the number of kids who still can't read. Test scores do help to tell the story too. I don't blame the teachers. I blame the system that has replaced real subjects and real books with standards and NCLB.

[aberdeen]

SAT scores have nothing to do with where Paulding County elementary schools rank compared to the rest of the state.

 

But have you noticed where the middle schools compare? Could it be that students start out low when compared to others in the state, then gradually start to make gains? I wonder why elementary students don't do as well. Could it be that there are less college educated parents in our county than others? There are many factors to consider.

 

I'm just playing the devil's advocate. I appreciate your opinions on education. It gives me some other viewpoints to consider.

 

Oh, and yes, I do have to pat myself on the back about education. After 3 degrees and over 15 years of experience, I do believe I know what's best for our children. I could be wrong about a few things, and I love learning from my mistakes, but they're few and far between.

[Cathyhelms]

Think that might have something to do with the demographics of our county? What about all that personal responsibility I keep hearing? Shouldn't the parents take the blame for this instead of the government?

 

There are schools in much more rural areas that rank far above Paulding County schools.

[ktan458]

SAT scores have nothing to do with where Paulding County elementary schools rank compared to the rest of the state.

 

First, let me say this--Paulding County schools are not perfect, and there is plenty to be done to make them better. However, just throwing out a list of schools and not bothering to look at any kind of disaggregation of the data is the exact same thing that the media and politicians do. Do you know why? Because they know that the public is just lazy enough to take it at face value, and never question it.

 

I'm sorry, but I find it comical how some people just trot out any bit of information to say that public schools aren't doing their jobs, as if teachers don't know that there are some serious problems out there. I've never said that Paulding is perfect and has all the answers. But, I'm damn proud of the progress that has been made in this county since I was a student here 15 years ago.

 

Are we #1? Absolutely not. But, as a district we are making great strides in getting these kids prepared for the outside world.

[NewsJunky]

SAT scores have nothing to do with where Paulding County elementary schools rank compared to the rest of the state.

 

 

You left out the fact that a good many of Georgia's schools are being looked at for (possibly) erasing and changing answers to make AYP. Thank goodness Paulding does not have that problem.

[ktan458]

That is more spin as far as I can tell. Cathy Cox has been terrible in the job she has and she has gotten very good at spinning test results.

 

She's terrible and a disgrace.

 

However, there is a difference between 'spin' and actually looking at the data beyond face value.

[Cathyhelms]

First, let me say this--Paulding County schools are not perfect, and there is plenty to be done to make them better. However, just throwing out a list of schools and not bothering to look at any kind of disaggregation of the data is the exact same thing that the media and politicians do. Do you know why? Because they know that the public is just lazy enough to take it at face value, and never question it.

 

I'm sorry, but I find it comical how some people just trot out any bit of information to say that public schools aren't doing their jobs, as if teachers don't know that there are some serious problems out there. I've never said that Paulding is perfect and has all the answers. But, I'm damn proud of the progress that has been made in this county since I was a student here 15 years ago.

 

Are we #1? Absolutely not. But, as a district we are making great strides in getting these kids prepared for the outside world.

 

I find it comical that every teacher and every school district should strive to be #1. When they are not, there is always an excuse. I will tell you that my children scored very well on the SATs, in fact my youngest had the highest english/language score in his graduating class but he was absolutely not prepared for college.

[ktan458]

I find it comical that every teacher and every school district should strive to be #1. When they are not, there is always an excuse. I will tell you that my children scored very well on the SATs, in fact my youngest had the highest english/language score in his graduating class but he was absolutely not prepared for college.

 

So then why do you believe that SAT scores should be used to rank states?

 

Why did you look to test scores in general to prove your 'point' that Paulding County schools must suck like the suckiest bunch of sucks who ever sucked?

 

I'm getting punchy and never should have opened this thread back up.

 

Have a good night Naturegirl--and remember, just because we rode around in the back of the family truckster standing tall with no seatbelt (and lived to tell about it), you shouldn't try that now

[Jughaid]

There are schools in much more rural areas that rank far above Paulding County schools.

Has nothing to do with being rural but with parental education, household income, work drive time for parents, recreational facilities, non school sports programs and a ginormous amount of other info. Checked the foreclosure information for Paulding lately?

 

You left out the fact that a good many of Georgia's schools are being looked at for (possibly) erasing and changing answers to make AYP. Thank goodness Paulding does not have that problem.

Did you say "a good many." What percentage of schhols would you say is a "good many?" Let's do some Jr High math here.

[Cathyhelms]

Has nothing to do with being rural but with parental education, household income, work drive time for parents, recreational facilities, non school sports programs and a ginormous amount of other info. Checked the foreclosure information for Paulding lately?

 

 

Did you say "a good many." What percentage of schhols would you say is a "good many?" Let's do some Jr High math here.

 

Nope, haven't checked the foreclosure info for Paulding lately, how does it compare to the drop out rate?? Inquiring minds would like to know. :rofl: :rofl:

[aberdeen]

I find it comical that every teacher and every school district should strive to be #1. When they are not, there is always an excuse. I will tell you that my children scored very well on the SATs, in fact my youngest had the highest english/language score in his graduating class but he was absolutely not prepared for college.

 

You're right, that's a huge problem. I hope that we'll keep getting better, so that situations like that do not happen. Right now the high schools are changing to GA's new standards, and while there are kinks to work out and all's not perfect, it's a step in the right direction.

 

I think with the community support of making education a priority of our youth, we'll reach the goals we've made. I love to see how much you care, even if we do disagree on some topics.

[ktan458]

Nope, haven't checked the foreclosure info for Paulding lately, how does it compare to the drop out rate?? Inquiring minds would like to know. :rofl: :rofl:

 

I lied--I do have one more thing to say.

 

If either of my children ever decided to 'drop-out', they'd be driven to school every single day, escorted into the building, and I'd get a renewed 10-12th grade education.

 

Drop-out rates absolutely should NOT be contributed solely to schools. Parents have to sign the form, and therefore bear the brunt as well.

 

However, I completely disagree with the idea that all HS students should be on the college-track. There should be plenty of alternates to help all children be successful outside of public school, even the ones that aren't choosing college as part of their career track.

Edited February 18, 2010 by lovekandj

[NewsJunky]

Has nothing to do with being rural but with parental education, household income, work drive time for parents, recreational facilities, non school sports programs and a ginormous amount of other info. Checked the foreclosure information for Paulding lately?

 

 

Did you say "a good many." What percentage of schhols would you say is a "good many?" Let's do some Jr High math here.

 

 

I would say one in five is a high number! This is really disgraceful and I hope it does not prove to be true.

 

http://www.ajc.com/news/suspicious-test-scores-widespread-296490.html

One in five Georgia public schools faces accusations of tampering with student answers on last spring’s state standardized tests, officials said Wednesday, throwing the state’s main academic measure into turmoil.

The Atlanta district is home to 58 of the 191 schools statewide that are likely to undergo investigations into potential cheating. Another 178 schools will probably see new test security mandates, such as stepped-up monitoring during testing.

[Cathyhelms]

I lied--I do have one more thing to say.

 

If either of my children ever decided to 'drop-out', they'd be driven to school every single day, escorted into the building, and I'd get a renewed 10-12th grade education.

 

Drop-out rates absolutely should NOT be contributed solely to schools. Parents have to sign the form, and therefore bear the brunt as well.

 

However, I completely disagree with the idea that all HS students should be on the college-track. There should be plenty of alternates to help all children be successful outside of public school, even the ones that aren't choosing college as part of their career track.

 

Let me say one last thing as well. When the counselors and administration tell a student there is absolutely no sense in staying in school, grades are horrible, attendance is horrible-you'll never make it, so why don't you just drop out, I guess there has to be someone to blame other than the school system. At that point it becomes the sole responsibility of the parent??

 

I work with the kids and have for over 20 years, it's a shame they feel they won't "amount to anything". Ever have everyone give up on you???

[aberdeen]

I would say one in five is a high number! This is really disgraceful and I hope it does not prove to be true.

 

http://www.ajc.com/news/suspicious-test-scores-widespread-296490.html

One in five Georgia public schools faces accusations of tampering with student answers on last spring’s state standardized tests, officials said Wednesday, throwing the state’s main academic measure into turmoil.

The Atlanta district is home to 58 of the 191 schools statewide that are likely to undergo investigations into potential cheating. Another 178 schools will probably see new test security mandates, such as stepped-up monitoring during testing.

 

OH MY GOSH!!!

 

Let's not even begin to discuss Merit Pay...will 20% of GA teachers get the wrong pay????? Good grief...what's happening to our schools?

[ktan458]

Let me say one last thing as well. When the counselors and administration tell a student there is absolutely no sense in staying in school, grades are horrible, attendance is horrible-you'll never make it, so why don't you just drop out, I guess there has to be someone to blame other than the school system. At that point it becomes the sole responsibility of the parent??

 

I work with the kids and have for over 20 years, it's a shame they feel they won't "amount to anything". Ever have everyone give up on you???

 

I realize that you don't know me, but you couldn't be more off-base when you talk about kids that others may have given up on.

 

Suffice it to say, I have gone to the ends of the world to find ways to connect with some of my kids and help them see the value of education (not just in the school but outside as well). Like many other teachers, I went on to graduate school and my M.Ed thesis was specifically targeting one group of children with special needs. I didn't get in to education for the perks--I got into it because I DID feel like I was given up on in school and I want better for the students coming up behind me, which is also why I came back to Paulding County.

 

Counselors and teachers that tell students they'll never make it should find themselves sitting on the curb with no job, no pension, and no hope of gracing the inside of a school again.

[Jughaid]

Nope, haven't checked the foreclosure info for Paulding lately, how does it compare to the drop out rate?? Inquiring minds would like to know. :rofl: :rofl:

Sure. That kinda makes my point. The higher the drop out rate, the lower the scores of those kids in the future.

[ktan458]

OH MY GOSH!!!

 

Let's not even begin to discuss Merit Pay...will 20% of GA teachers get the wrong pay????? Good grief...what's happening to our schools?

 

Administrators at both the state and local level have forgotten about educating the whole child, and are instead bowing down to the cheap, easy way that politicians, who can't even balance a budget, came up with to measure success?

 

Oh, wait--that was a rhetorical question.

[Jughaid]

I would say one in five is a high number! This is really disgraceful and I hope it does not prove to be true.

 

http://www.ajc.com/news/suspicious-test-scores-widespread-296490.html

One in five Georgia public schools faces accusations of tampering with student answers on last spring’s state standardized tests, officials said Wednesday, throwing the state’s main academic measure into turmoil.

The Atlanta district is home to 58 of the 191 schools statewide that are likely to undergo investigations into potential cheating. Another 178 schools will probably see new test security mandates, such as stepped-up monitoring during testing.

Do the Jr. High math. 58 of that 191 was from one system. One. That means the overwhelming problem is with one system. You're going to make that a statewide thing?

 

Let me say one last thing as well. When the counselors and administration tell a student there is absolutely no sense in staying in school, grades are horrible, attendance is horrible-you'll never make it, so why don't you just drop out, I guess there has to be someone to blame other than the school system. At that point it becomes the sole responsibility of the parent??

 

I work with the kids and have for over 20 years, it's a shame they feel they won't "amount to anything". Ever have everyone give up on you???

You're going to extrapolate that extreme example to every drop out situation?

[NewsJunky]

OH MY GOSH!!!

 

Let's not even begin to discuss Merit Pay...will 20% of GA teachers get the wrong pay????? Good grief...what's happening to our schools?

 

Excuse me, I am not following your thoughts here. I thought the question Jughaid asked was about the possible cheating on tests in GA. What does that have to do with Merit Pay. If you want to discuss that though, I do believe the Governor has made that proposal. It is part of the effort he is making to get more funding from the Feds for Georgia schools. The Teacher's Union is opposed to it.

[aberdeen]

Do the Jr. High math. 58 of that 191 was from one system. One. That means the overwhelming problem is with one system. You're going to make that a statewide thing?

 

 

You're going to extrapolate that extreme example to every drop out situation?

 

 

From the AJC article:

 

Statewide, more than half of elementary and middle schools had at least one classroom where erasure marks were so unusual that cheating may have occurred, the analysis shows. State and local officials will take follow-up steps in the 20 percent of schools with the most classrooms in question.

 

I think it's more than one school system.

[ktan458]

Excuse me, I am not following your thoughts here. I thought the question Jughaid asked was about the possible cheating on tests in GA. What does that have to do with Merit Pay. If you want to discuss that though, I do believe the Governor has made that proposal. It is part of the effort he is making to get more funding from the Feds for Georgia schools. The Teacher's Union is opposed to it.

 

There is no teacher's union in Georgia. There are professional organizations, but calling them a union is a misnomer, as they have no political power, outside of lobbying for the group of teachers.

[NewsJunky]

Do the Jr. High math. 58 of that 191 was from one system. One. That means the overwhelming problem is with one system. You're going to make that a statewide thing?

 

 

You're going to extrapolate that extreme example to every drop out situation?

 

 

One in 5 schools in Georgia is a problem no matter where the schools are. We shall see where the investigation leads. Drop out rates in Georgia is a huge problem and I think you know it is.

[Jughaid]

From the AJC article:

 

Statewide, more than half of elementary and middle schools had at least one classroom where erasure marks were so unusual that cheating may have occurred, the analysis shows. State and local officials will take follow-up steps in the 20 percent of schools with the most classrooms in question.

 

I think it's more than one school system.

Could be. That's what happens when the test becomes the standard instead of an education. Still, the majority of the problem was in one system, Atlanta.

[aberdeen]

Excuse me, I am not following your thoughts here. I thought the question Jughaid asked was about the possible cheating on tests in GA. What does that have to do with Merit Pay. If you want to discuss that though, I do believe the Governor has made that proposal. It is part of the effort he is making to get more funding from the Feds for Georgia schools. The Teacher's Union is opposed to it.

 

My thoughts are: If teachers or administrators are going to change test answers to make their schools look good, then they might change test answers to make each look like a better teacher. Will the scores be accurate enough? My answer: NO!

 

I'm even worried that some honest good teachers might become dishonest cheating workers out for a quick pay raise.

 

For the record, I would NEVER consider doing anything like this...it's against all that I believe in....I'm just saying, if admin will do it, I'll bet there are some bad teachers that would.

[Jughaid]

One in 5 schools in Georgia is a problem no matter where the schools are. We shall see where the investigation leads. Drop out rates in Georgia is a huge problem and I think you know it is.

Sure drop out rates are bad. They used to be much worse in the 60s and 70s.

[Cathyhelms]

Sure drop out rates are bad. They used to be much worse in the 60s and 70s.

 

 

:o WOW, some of those drop outs had the nerve to start very successful businesses, even without the sheep skin required to do most anything today. :yahoo: :yahoo:

[Jughaid]

:o WOW, some of those drop outs had the nerve to start very successful businesses, even without the sheep skin required to do most anything today. :yahoo: :yahoo:

So drop out rates are not all that big of deal, are they?