wcso84
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Posts posted by wcso84
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They guy posted it on youtube? He broke into the cop's car and stole the video equipment?
The only way this video has a happy ending is if the pregnant woman jumps out of the car and puts one in the head and two in the chest. That cop would have deserved it.
Yes he was able to obtain a copy through a legal process called “discovery.
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The cop told the motorist that he TASE'ed him for not signing the ticket. You claim he was TASE'ed for not putting his hands behind his back. You only put your hands behind your back and get handcuffed if you are being arrested. The State of Utah never arrested this guy. The article clearly states all he was given was a speeding ticket. So he was not TASE'd for resisting arrest; because he was NEVER arrested. As such, the cop was telling the truth - he was TASE'ed for not signing a speeding ticket.
So it's back to you - is it legal to TASE someone for not signing a speeding ticket? And does someone being TASE'ed for not signing a speeding ticket have a right to defend themselves?
Not once did I hear the officer state that he tased him for not signing the ticket. What I did hear was under arrest why? And a reply of, for not signing the citation and not following my instructions. Ant then this person who is obviously not familiar with Miranda wants his rights read to him. And states that the officer can not arrest him without reading him his rights. And the fact that the officer did not charge him with resisting arrest tells me that he was trying to cut the guy some slack. The officer has two years to file the misdemeanor charge and after this guy post this on you tube I hope he files them. But we will see how it plays out.
The news article says that other charges were dropped but we know how news media skew things. The fact that no other charges were filed or on record may have been presented by the media as, other charges were dropped. Now I don’t know one way or another on that but if they weren’t filed I hope they are now. But I doubt they will
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Sorry, I only made a 167 on the LSAT. Can you tell me where it talks about the tasing?
Thanks.
It justifies the officers attempt to make a physical arrest to which the subject resisted. This authorized the use of force to affect the LAWFUL arrest.
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My implied method? I didn't know you were a juris doctor. Tell me - what are you LEGALLY allowed to do when a cop tasers you for not signing a speeding ticket? Show us all your academic training with a consise and substantiated response. State Code and State Supreme Court opinions will be fine, thank you. Your personal opinion would also be taken as credible if you have a license to practice law by the Georgia or Utah bar; at which point there is no need to show State Code and Utah or Georgia SC opinion.
AGAIN….
From F.B.I. le bulletin.
"Finally, the court stated: "Police officers...are not required to use the least intrusive degree of force possible....Whether officers hypothetically could have used less painful, less injurious, or more effective force in executing an arrest is simply not the issue.""
CONCLUSION The Supreme Court has held that the level of force law enforcement officers may use to effect arrests or investigative detentions of suspects must be "reasonable" to comport with the Fourth Amendment. As the Court has stated and these cases illustrate, "reasonableness" is not conducive to "precise definition or mechanical application." Law enforcement policy makers and instructors must avoid the natural temptation to reduce these critical issues to overly simple and rigid rules of application. Apparent gains in clarity most likely will be offset by loss of flexibility and practicality in the face of the realities of law enforcement. As an alternate approach, consideration should be given to carefully crafting guidelines that provide officers with a range of options within which to make decisions regarding the appropriate level of force in particular situations. In addition, sustained training sessions that include practical application of the principles to realistic scenarios will increase officer skill and confidence in making the tough decisions. Policy and training should strike an appropriate balance between the rights of citizens to be free from "unreasonable" seizures and the interests of society in maintaining effective law enforcement while protecting the officers who must perform that duty.
He was not tased for not signing the citation. He was tased because he failed to obey a lawful order to place his hands behind his back and started walking to his vehicle.
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We must be watching two completely different videos.
The guy wasn't beligerent at all. I saw a guy that was scared because the cop was going off the deep end. The cop escalated this one, not the guy in the car. All he had to do was write "refused to sign" & leave it at that. The cop is one who told the guy to get out & the guy did not start moving away until the cop pulled the taser. I don't blame the guy: I would have been in mortal fear of a crazy guy with a badge & deadly force at his disposal. It was reasonable for the guy to think the cop was off his rocker for the whole incident.
Being a cop doesn't mean being a bully is is an option.
In this case, the video is quite telling. Hope there is lots of $$$ going the way of the guy because what happened to him is a cop using the law as an excuse to bully.
Did you read the excerpt from the utah traffic code I posted? It is plain as day.
53-3-705. Procedures for issuing traffic citation.
The following is the procedure of the issuing jurisdiction:
(1) When issuing a citation for a traffic violation, a peace officer shall issue the citation to a motorist who possesses a driver license issued by a party jurisdiction and shall not, subject to the exceptions noted in Subsection (2), require the motorist to post collateral to secure appearance if the officer receives the motorist's personal recognizance that he or she will comply with the terms of the citation
That means signing the citation.
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Cite your source for this information please.
Still waiting.....
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It does not appear the he used excessive/illegal force (Oklahoma video) tasing is just ugly like that.
It's hard to hear everything on the video so I may be missing something the suspect or cop said that would mitigate this.
The driver will probably have to pay a speeding fine based on statements made on the video.
The cop was careless throughout the stop (approaching vehicle on traffic side, not controlling all occupants,requesting assistance, etc) and there were numerous opportunities for harm to come his way throughout the event. The passenger could have easily brandished and used a weapon while the cop was playing with his taser and suspect.
Don' buy all of the subterfuge being presented as to how he was concerned for his safety in light of this flagrant dis-regard for his own safety.
There are a lot of people out there that would of killed him before he got near his taser.
He appears to be very lazy, un-professional and untrained but this is not criminal or negligent in the absence of any injury/death.
Probably won't last too long in this job due to his lack of professionalism and training.
Fifteen years on the job without any prior use of use of force complaints. He Must be doing something right
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I disagree.
He had been on a plane for 14 hours. He had been sitting at the airport for 10. He did not speak one word of English -- he was exhausted, confused, and scared. It was *OBVIOUS* even to bystanders (who tried to help) that the man was scared, breathing abnormally, and generally delirious.
Well I do not know a lot about what happened up there so I can not make any qualified judgment on it. But I DO know better than to show my a$$ in an airport. And would expect to be treated without kid gloves if I was doing so. Why must we justify these folks inappropriate behavior in a setting such as this that is already on edge as far as security goes? Is it the officer’s fault that the person did not understand English? I have a feeling the guy was not totally devoid of any English knowledge. Even if his English was perfect I think he would have still acted the same way.
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I disagree.
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Between this video, and the incident that happened recently in an airport -- where a traveler from Europe who didn't speak a word of English and had been up for over 24 hours -- was tased and died right there on the spot, on video -- it just makes me sick.
I think more training should be required for areas where tasers are used. I think they are way too easy to ABUSE as we are seeing more and more of. I think that they might need to have lowered voltage as well.
That poor guy just sitting there minding his business and gets tased.I don’t think so. The fact that he is throwing tables and cases at windows and other people does not come into the equation. I would think a gun and a badge and uniform is a universal symbol of authority. I do not speak Russian but If I happen to be showing my A$$ in an airport in Russia I would take it as a given that the guys heading my direction in uniform with guns and badges are some sort of authority and I am going to straighten my act up for fear of the consequences. Not once has the taser been proven as the cause of death, there has always been an underlying factor as cause of death.
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Yes, I watched the link you gave & there =no= comparison to what happened in the OP video. None. The link you gave showed the guy was belligerent & threatening even before he pulled out the rifle. The OP was not any of that.
The bottom line is the officer let him return to the vehicle with tragic results. NOW I ask you…. If Deputy Dinkheller had deployed the taser while the subject was dancing around in the street would it not be the same argument? OH the guy did not need to taser him, all he was doing was dancing and being obnoxious he was a car length away he was not a threat, all the deputy needed to do was wait for backup. Well that is what Deputy Dinkheller did. He exercised restraint and now he is dead. The driver in the Utah incident WAS being belligerent he states something to the effect “no your going to tell me what I did and then we are going back to find the speed limit sign” the trooper states again for him sign and again he refuses. The trooper gives a lawful order to exit the vehicle, and then gives another lawful order “more than once” to place his hands behind his back. He refuses and is taken into custody using the force necessary to gain compliance. You state the guy was in fear of what the trooper was going to do? Most reasonable people associate “place your hands behind your back” with being arrested, nothing more. So if I attempt to make a lawful arrest and the person is in fear of being arrested that justifies resistance? But it is like you said the side of the road is not the place to argue, let it play out and take care of any injustice real or perceived in court
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I watched it several times & this is bogus. The guy pointed to the sign & told the officer to look where the speed limit began & the cop pulled the taser. I don't blame the guy for backing up at that point because the cop was overboard . . . the guy was even saying, "What is wrong with you?" He was reacting as any reasonable person would.
I understand the point about protecting the officer, but in this case the officer was acting, IMHO, unlawfully & the guy was in fear for his life, as any reasonable observer in the same situation would conclude. Really. I tried putting myself in the same situation & I have to say I would have probably done the same thing.
What this video did teach me is to simply refuse to answer any questions but comply 100% even to the point of an arrest & let the lawyers sort it all out.
Just wondering if you watched the video I linked. I’d also be interested in your take on it in Comparison to the Utah incident.
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So in your view the guy deserved to be tasered. I will have to remember that if I ever get stopped by the police. Comply within 8 seconds of a command or you will get tasered. They will not try to talk to you and explain your options. It is straight to the taser no other options.
Heck forget the taser just shot them, after all you never know when things might escalate out of hand so just kill them right out.
From F.B.I. le bulletin.
"Finally, the court stated: "Police officers...are not required to use the least intrusive degree of force possible....Whether officers hypothetically could have used less painful, less injurious, or more effective force in executing an arrest is simply not the issue.""
CONCLUSION The Supreme Court has held that the level of force law enforcement officers may use to effect arrests or investigative detentions of suspects must be "reasonable" to comport with the Fourth Amendment. As the Court has stated and these cases illustrate, "reasonableness" is not conducive to "precise definition or mechanical application." Law enforcement policy makers and instructors must avoid the natural temptation to reduce these critical issues to overly simple and rigid rules of application. Apparent gains in clarity most likely will be offset by loss of flexibility and practicality in the face of the realities of law enforcement. As an alternate approach, consideration should be given to carefully crafting guidelines that provide officers with a range of options within which to make decisions regarding the appropriate level of force in particular situations. In addition, sustained training sessions that include practical application of the principles to realistic scenarios will increase officer skill and confidence in making the tough decisions. Policy and training should strike an appropriate balance between the rights of citizens to be free from "unreasonable" seizures and the interests of society in maintaining effective law enforcement while protecting the officers who must perform that duty
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So in your view the guy deserved to be tasered. I will have to remember that if I ever get stopped by the police. Comply within 8 seconds of a command or you will get tasered. They will not try to talk to you and explain your options. It is straight to the taser no other options.
Heck forget the taser just shot them, after all you never know when things might escalate out of hand so just kill them right out.
Like I said, I may have handled it differently. But the issue here is “did the officer act inappropriately in regard to use of force continuum, violate any law or civil rights.” Bottom line no he didn’t. You may not like the way it looks on video but if you are not there and it is not your tail on the line it is really not a call any one of us should be trying to second guess. Did you watch that video of Dep. Dinkheller or have you seen it before? I would really like to get your take on it in comparison to the Utah incident.
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]Dude, I understand your position but you are totally reading into it to much.No…. you are not reading enough into it.
Total Line of Duty Deaths 2007: 158
Accidental: 3
Aircraft accident: 3
Animal related: 1
Automobile accident: 43
Boating accident: 1
Bomb: 5
Drowned: 3
Exposure to toxins: 1
Fall: 1
Gunfire: 59
Gunfire (Accidental): 3
Heart attack: 5
Heat exhaustion: 1
Motorcycle accident: 5
Struck by vehicle: 7
Vehicle pursuit: 6
Vehicular assault: 9
Weather/Natural disaster: 2
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Dude, I understand your position but you are totally reading into it to much.
There was no escalation of the situation. He said sign the ticket, the guy said no, the trooper said step out of the car, then he tasered him. All in 18 seconds.
The trooper never even gave the driver another option. The trooper could have easily been nice and just explained the situation to the driver and then if the driver still did not want to sign take it a step further and explain he can be arrested. At least give the guy a chance.
There was no need for force escalation because the officer should have been able to control the situation.
Don't give me this bull crap about incompliant subjects because it is apples and oranges. This guy was not a threat to himself or the officer at any time. If he was the officer would have radioed for backup and waited till it arrived. He also would not have turned his back on him when he walked back to his patrol car to set his ticket book down.
Also if the guy was a threat he would not have been standing right in front of the drivers door. That is a rookie mistake and this guy was a 15 year veteran? come on.
Bottom line is the officer should have handled the situation in a better manner and maybe there would be a better outcome. Officers have to also be diplomatic, not just forceful.
Every minute you allow a non compliant subject not to comply you are putting yourself at greater risk of bodily harm. While you are being diplomatic the subject is plotting his next move. The officer does not know this guy from jack. While the driver is stalling who knows what his intentions are. Bottom line the guy resisted arrest, officer took appropriate action. Every non compliant person I encounter is a threat. Just curious did you watch the video in the link? I do not know what experience you have with law enforcement or LOEs although I believe you stated you had a few years experience in a previous post if I remember correctly. But I would invite anyone in this forum to come on a ride along with me and see first hand what is going on out here. Things you just cannot get a grasp on until you experience it first hand. Things you just don’t see on cops.
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Sigh....
A citation is an arrest....you can choose to sign the ticket and agree to appear in court or you can be booked at the jail and post a cash bond. He was not arrested or tased for speeding...he was tased for resisting a lawful arrest.
Yes. But in some states traffic infractions are a “no physical arrest” offence.
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The trooper should have tried to control the situation and calmly explained to the driver that they were not going to discuss whether he was guilty or not on the side of the road.
It went start from sign the ticket, no I am not going to sign, to step out of the car, then taser. All in a matter of 18 seconds. I did not see it escalating one iota.
Officers die when they let the situation escalate. Once a situation has escalated beyond control of one officer things go bad fast. The officer is not obligated to do any more than he did. He made several lawful requests and there was no indication of the driver complying so the trooper went up to the next step on the use of force continuum. If you have looked at the video in the link I posted you can see how not getting an non compliant subject under control in a timely manner results in tragedy. In my opinion, the action that prompted the deployment of the taser was the refeusl to comply with the officer telling him to turn around and attempting to return to his vehicle. YOU NEVER LET A SUBJECT RETURN TO THEIR VEHICLE once you have removed them. It comes down to the old saying “if we hit you first we are bullies, if you hit us first we are chumps”. Bottom line is I am going home at the end of the shift if I have any control over it.
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Cops. UGH. Some are great, some are not so great. I am convinced some (read: MOST) become cops because they have issues with their manhood and just want to be bullies. I read a study a long time ago that indicated that the majority of police officers are actually gay or bisexual. and battling thier internal demons about their sexuality. Sure explains why they need to be big and bad bullies with guns and TASER's.Horrible story, Tea. Sorry that happened to your mom. The cops in Paulding County are as bad or worse than the bully she ran into. I hope she doesn't get on the bad side of those agressive maniacs.If you haven't done anything illegal; you should not have to submit to a bogus arrest. In Georgia; if an officer violates your Fourth Amendment and does not have a warrant; if you are on you own property you are within your right to use deadly force to repel the officer trying to gain entry.
Cite your source for this information please.
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"If someone refuses to sign the citation, they're refusing to appear in court."
"Refusing to sign a ticket is not a crime under Utah state law. Signing a citation but then failing to show up in court, however, is a class B misdemeanor."
Sounds to me like they contradict themselves.
All the trooper had to do was calmly explain that it was not an admission of guilt is simply meant the guy agreed to show up in court and he can explain his case to the judge.
I agree with the trooper that the side of the road is not the place to try to explain what you did or did not do. But the trooper should have explained that to the driver and handled the situation. There was no need to taser the guy for refusing to sign a citation especially when it is not a crime.
53-3-705. Procedures for issuing traffic citation.
The following is the procedure of the issuing jurisdiction:
(1) When issuing a citation for a traffic violation, a peace officer shall issue the citation to a motorist who possesses a driver license issued by a party jurisdiction and shall not, subject to the exceptions noted in Subsection (2), require the motorist to post collateral to secure appearance if the officer receives the motorist's personal recognizance that he or she will comply with the terms of the citation.
By refusing to sign the citation the driver did not promise to appear as required under Utah law. If the officer cannot secure the “signature or “own recognizance bond” the officer has no choice to book him in. Florida is the same way except there is a specific misdemeanor statute for failure to sign. Each state is different. In Kansas it is not a violation of any law not to sign. We write “REFEUSED” in the box. That impresses the judge. The excerpt I posted previously was taken from Utah’s traffic statutes. Again if you have not seen the video of deputy Dinkheller I urge you follow the link below. And then maybe you may see things in a different light. Maybe not change your mind but just a different perspective. I do not think I would have handled the Utah situation the same way but I sure am not going to second guess the trooper. And just for the record my department issues tasers but I do not carry one. I am not against them I just don’t have room on my belt and I have gotten by just fine with my pr24 “yes I still carry one” and pepper spray. I will also say I have been sprayed and taserd and if I had to do one of them again it would most Definitely be the taser.
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Utah trooper tasers a driver because he refused to sign a speeding ticket. Not signing a speeding ticket is not against the law. All the trooper had to do was mark "refused to sign" on the ticket.
There was no need to taser the guy. You can hear for the troopers voice that he has nothing but attitude. Maybe he needs to find another line of work. Of course after this he probably will need to.
ETA: Nice how the Trooper perjury's himself at the end. I would love to be on that jury when it goes to court.
The side of the road is not the place to debate the issue. The trooper requested the driver sign the citation in lieu of posting bond and the driver refused. Instead the driver was telling the trooper what they were going to do. It doesn’t work like that. Under Utah law that means that the officer must secure bond. That means going to jail and being booked in. The trooper gave a lawful order and the driver refused. The result was quick and decisive action by the officer to maintain control of the situation. The trooper appeared to be in a remote area with no backup. If you think this action was inappropriate I suggest you look up the video of Deputy Kyle Dinkheller of the Laurens County Sheriff's Office.. Bottom line is don’t be an ass on the side of the road. Odds are you will not win that battle. Instead, go to court and fight it there.
53-3-705. Procedures for issuing traffic citation.
The following is the procedure of the issuing jurisdiction:
(1) When issuing a citation for a traffic violation, a peace officer shall issue the citation to a motorist who possesses a driver license issued by a party jurisdiction and shall not, subject to the exceptions noted in Subsection (2), require the motorist to post collateral to secure appearance if the officer receives the motorist's personal recognizance that he or she will comply with the terms of the citation.
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Thanks for having me
I wouldn't be able to build a new one for that much unfortunately, the cheapest I could build without a monitor would be ~$200. I'd be using new parts though.
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Another potential cause is your drivers, if Panasonic has general drivers for their touchscreens/touchpads, then you may want to look for ones that were released up to a year after your machine was released instead of the newest. You have to have a Toughbook to access their support/drivers website, so I'm not able to take a peek to see how they have things set up there.
The same 1-year rule applies if they have drivers listed for each specific model... newer drivers may include more revisions of the same product, turning them into a more "general" driver and therefore less reliable for your model.
On top of the driver issue, I have another question- Are you using WinXP Professional or WinXP Pro with Tablet Edition? After doing some investigating around the net, making sure you're using Tablet edition has been offered up as a way to fixing strange cursor issues.
Then again, I may be barking up the wrong tree in blaming how the cursors are interacting with your hardware/software- it's (very) remotely possible it's a virus/spyware problem. Is your antivirus/antispyware up to date?
Also, does this occur in safe mode?
I can not remember if it did it in safe mode I’ll go check. Virus should not be an issue as this is a new hard drive and never been connected to the net. All drivers downloaded from Panasonics web site are cf28 specific and all versions are a few years old.
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Sounds like your input devices are interfering with each other (I've seen this before on laptops with mice attached).
PS/2 Wheel Mouse Jumps Around Screen on Laptops with Touchpads
Since you're at the point where you have up to 3+ potential input devices, your chances of this happening are very large. While it's talking about PS/2 mice, the same concept of different input signals conflicting in cursor movement would easily apply here.
Follow the Microsoft rabbit into the hole to see if you can fix it this way:
How To Create Hardware Profiles on Windows-Based Mobile Computers
You'll want to disable the mouse (if listed as a device), and see if that fixes it. If it doesn't, try disabling the touchpad and keeping the touchscreen functionality. If the cursor jumping around is keeping you from making the profile, try doing this in safe mode.
Done all that with no positive results. "remember i have been at this the better part of 2 days."
But what would explain the movement of the cursor even when no input device is being used or manipulated? The computer is sitting there with nothing / no one touching it and the cursor is still flying around the screen.
More Facist Police
in Internet Cafe
Posted
Don’t know. That is what I was told by another trooper from that area. It appears that this incident is several months old. So it is feasible, if this guy has filed any action in reference to this incident or he could have just requested a copy of it. It is up to individual departments if they release the video. I do not know UHP’s policy on it.