Why aren't we angry about this?

[hart408]

This story is from February of this year: http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/lawmakers-eye-potential-300-295246.html

 

The answer to all of our budget problems is a simple one: collect the sales taxes businesses are collecting from us and KEEPING.

 

How much is this hurting our Georgia economy? Estimates say between 300 million and 1 BILLION dollars in sales taxes go uncollected every year in our state alone. That money, that already exists and is NOT a new tax, would fix almost every problem we have in Georgia stemming from a reduced state budget.

 

There is no reason to cram kids into classrooms like cattle in a boxcar. There is no reason to furlough state and county workers. There is no reason to impose new taxes when we are already paying enough to support our state programs.

 

Why aren't we raising hell?

 

All we have to do is identify businesses that have licenses that don't pay their sales tax to the GA Dept. of Revenue. That's it. Why aren't we doing that?

 

Hall county alone found 1000 businesses that were licensed and were reporting no sales taxes. How many in Paulding?

 

This is the main reason I have decided to vote for Will Avery. He is the only candidate that I have seen address this important issue. This should be on the lips of every single candidate instead of being ignored.

[willavery]

This story is from February of this year: http://www.ajc.com/n...300-295246.html

 

The answer to all of our budget problems is a simple one: collect the sales taxes businesses are collecting from us and KEEPING.

 

How much is this hurting our Georgia economy? Estimates say between 300 million and 1 BILLION dollars in sales taxes go uncollected every year in our state alone. That money, that already exists and is NOT a new tax, would fix almost every problem we have in Georgia stemming from a reduced state budget.

 

There is no reason to cram kids into classrooms like cattle in a boxcar. There is no reason to furlough state and county workers. There is no reason to impose new taxes when we are already paying enough to support our state programs.

 

Why aren't we raising hell?

 

All we have to do is identify businesses that have licenses that don't pay their sales tax to the GA Dept. of Revenue. That's it. Why aren't we doing that?

 

Hall county alone found 1000 businesses that were licensed and were reporting no sales taxes. How many in Paulding?

 

This is the main reason I have decided to vote for Will Avery. He is the only candidate that I have seen address this important issue. This should be on the lips of every single candidate instead of being ignored.

 

 

It won't solve all budget problems, but it will be a big help in closing budget gaps that result in cuts to vital services such as education and transportation. Representative DuBose Porter, the House minority leader, proposed a bill last session that would have addressed this issue. Sales tax is something that we all already pay when we purchase things, but sometimes it is left reported. We definitely need to make sure that the sales taxes we pay are collected efficiently and put to the best uses possible.

 

 

[MrsB]

Well, the company I work for is liscensed but we collect little or no sales tax each quarter. We may file having collected $0.00 sales tax in QTR 1, but $5,000 the next, and $200.00 for QTR 3, and again $0.00 for QTR 4. This is because the majority of our sales are either for resale or the end user has a direct pay permit or is tax exempt. The majority of my customers have either direct pay or are tax exempt and do not pay tax.

 

My thinking is maybe the state's reasoning is that they would have to have people go into the field and audit these businesses, making sure they have the necessary paperwork on file (i.e. ST-5s etc.) for every sale they make.

 

IDK. I am just saying that not every business collects sales tax or very much of it even if they are selling things.

[hart408]

Well, the company I work for is liscensed but we collect little or no sales tax each quarter. We may file having collected $0.00 sales tax in QTR 1, but $5,000 the next, and $200.00 for QTR 3, and again $0.00 for QTR 4. This is because the majority of our sales are either for resale or the end user has a direct pay permit or is tax exempt. The majority of my customers have either direct pay or are tax exempt and do not pay tax.

 

My thinking is maybe the state's reasoning is that they would have to have people go into the field and audit these businesses, making sure they have the necessary paperwork on file (i.e. ST-5s etc.) for every sale they make.

 

IDK. I am just saying that not every business collects sales tax or very much of it even if they are selling things.

 

Do you mind telling what kind of business?

 

I know there are exemptions for some businesses like inventories in warehouses and heavy mahchinery and charities (there are others).

 

What do you think about people who sell on ebay? You think they are paying the state taxes they incur?

[hart408]

Here's what the Georgia Tax Commissioner had to say about it: https://etax.dor.ga.gov/TaxLawandPolicy/commletters/Letter_to_AJC_Editor_-_Local_Sales_Tax_Collection.pdf

 

And here is a list of what is owed (just the businesses they know about):

 

https://etax.dor.ga.gov/DeT/CD_WEB_FIFA_LIST_BUSINESS_COUNTY_2010_07.pdf (Paulding is pages 1703 to 1714)

 

How many businesses are flying under the radar? How much does that damage our education system if over half of a state's budget is education costs?

[MrsB]

Do you mind telling what kind of business?

 

I know there are exemptions for some businesses like inventories in warehouses and heavy mahchinery and charities (there are others).

 

What do you think about people who sell on ebay? You think they are paying the state taxes they incur?

Not at all. We are a manufacturer's representative. Our customers are manufacturers throughout the south, and we also sell to the power industry.

Mostly large corporations that we sell to have direct pay (which we have on file) meaning that they accumulate the amount of sales tax on what they buy, and pay it directly to the state. It saves them the hassle of itemizing each order on what is taxable and not based on the item's use in their plant.

 

I hope that makes sense. Hah. We have an accountant that has made very sure that our paperwork is in order and we collect and remit the appropriate tax. We file every quarter, and he audits us at the end of the year (internal audit).

[lotstodo]

Will is absolutely right in principal, we do need to collect every dime we are owed, and this is a problem here in Georgia. Cee Jay's quoted estimates, however are in question. It may also be useful to point out that Porter's proposal puts the onus for tax collection on the counties and municipalities in the hope that they will be more aggressive, in a plan similar to Alabama's. Kinda going around your butt to get to your elbow if you ask me. My belief, and that of many legislators, is that the Department of Revenue needs to be overhauled with increased enforcement personnel, less political involvement, and clearly stated policies that target the large abusers first like the hotel chain owner that just coughed up $400,000 just minutes after DOR seized his property. And he is a two time offender that just plays the system.

 

Cee Jay, not all registered businesses are required to collect sales tax. Those that provide just services for instance. Also any product that is delivered outside of the State of Georgia to a non resident of Georgia, or any casual transaction between private citizens is not subject to sales tax. Ebay is a problem for the DOR, because they have to prove that you are operating a business, and not just occasionally selling used items. In some cases it is obvious, in others it isn't.

[MrsB]

Will is absolutely right in principal, we do need to collect every dime we are owed, and this is a problem here in Georgia. Cee Jay's quoted estimates, however are in question. It may also be useful to point out that Porter's proposal puts the onus for tax collection on the counties and municipalities in the hope that they will be more aggressive, in a plan similar to Alabama's. Kinda going around your butt to get to your elbow if you ask me. My belief, and that of many legislators, is that the Department of Revenue needs to be overhauled with increased enforcement personnel, less political involvement, and clearly stated policies that target the large abusers first like the hotel chain owner that just coughed up $400,000 just minutes after DOR seized his property. And he is a two time offender that just plays the system.

 

Cee Jay, not all registered businesses are required to collect sales tax. Those that provide just services for instance. Also any product that is delivered outside of the State of Georgia to a non resident of Georgia, or any casual transaction between private citizens is not subject to sales tax. Ebay is a problem for the DOR, because they have to prove that you are operating a business, and not just occasionally selling used items. In some cases it is obvious, in others it isn't.

True. We are not required to collect outside of Georgia.

[hart408]

Not at all. We are a manufacturer's representative. Our customers are manufacturers throughout the south, and we also sell to the power industry.

Mostly large corporations that we sell to have direct pay (which we have on file) meaning that they accumulate the amount of sales tax on what they buy, and pay it directly to the state. It saves them the hassle of itemizing each order on what is taxable and not based on the item's use in their plant.

 

I hope that makes sense. Hah. We have an accountant that has made very sure that our paperwork is in order and we collect and remit the appropriate tax. We file every quarter, and he audits us at the end of the year (internal audit).

 

Thanks! Your business reports, even if the liability is zero.

 

I think the problem in Georgia stems from all the businesses that do NOT report.

 

I looked throught the Paulding individual database. There are people who owe over $300K in taxes. How does that happen? I'm the first one to complain about paying taxes, but I pay them.

 

Will is absolutely right in principal, we do need to collect every dime we are owed, and this is a problem here in Georgia. Cee Jay's quoted estimates, however are in question. It may also be useful to point out that Porter's proposal puts the onus for tax collection on the counties and municipalities in the hope that they will be more aggressive, in a plan similar to Alabama's. Kinda going around your butt to get to your elbow if you ask me. My belief, and that of many legislators, is that the Department of Revenue needs to be overhauled with increased enforcement personnel, less political involvement, and clearly stated policies that target the large abusers first like the hotel chain owner that just coughed up $400,000 just minutes after DOR seized his property. And he is a two time offender that just plays the system.

 

Cee Jay, not all registered businesses are required to collect sales tax. Those that provide just services for instance. Also any product that is delivered outside of the State of Georgia to a non resident of Georgia, or any casual transaction between private citizens is not subject to sales tax. Ebay is a problem for the DOR, because they have to prove that you are operating a business, and not just occasionally selling used items. In some cases it is obvious, in others it isn't.

 

Do you think it would help if local governments had to report every single business license issued in their district to the DOR?

 

There are individuals in Paulding that owe almost as much as that hotel chain.

 

People that provide services have to pay taxes on the money they make through income tax and self-employment tax, correct? I wonder how many report the cash money they get (I always question businesses that offer cash discounts, no paper trail)?

Edited July 30, 2010 by CeeJay

[lotstodo]

Thanks! Your business reports, even if the liability is zero.

 

I think the problem in Georgia stems from all the businesses that do NOT report.

 

I looked throught the Paulding individual database. There are people who owe over $300K in taxes. How does that happen? I'm the first one to complain about paying taxes, but I pay them.

 

 

 

Do you think it would help if local governments had to report every single business license issued in their district to the DOR?

 

There are individuals in Paulding that owe almost as much as that hotel chain.

If you are incorporated in any fashion, you have to be registered with the Secretary of State, who passes all pertinent information on the the DOR, and DOL. Only individuals using a DBA designation (should register with the clerk of the county superior court) and corporations whose primary place of business is out of state are exempt from this registration. It may however be useful for counties to forward their information as a cross reference.

 

I think that the problem isn't the casual transaction, or the small peanuts home based businesses as much as it is the intentionally fraudulent or near bankrupt operators. The DOR doesn't need to snoop around more as much as they need to enforce a very clear set of regulations across the board. In some cases, businesses have flaunted the system for years without penalty, declared immediate bankruptcy when finally confronted, and open the next week under a new name. The goal should be not letting individual violations get too out of hand. I know it's bad PR to put a business gainfully employing people out of business, but they can't be allowed to just slide because someone in the DOR has tried to cooperate in the collection of taxes or was too busy to do a proper job of enforcement. A guy is far more likely to pay up for a few hundred bucks than several thousand, and if he can't afford to pay taxes now, he is unlikely to be able to pay in the future. Payment plans may be called for in some situations, but miss a payment and like the IRS, adios.

 

Some of the bills you see may be disputed, or may be awaiting a court proceeding, but I'm sure some may need more attention.

 

Any business activity that generates income for a corporation or individual is subject to income tax. We were talking about sales tax before. Some businesses don't want to pay 5% or more to the CC companies, and won't take checks because of the potential of fraud. A personal check rarely leads to a tax evasion prosecution on the recipient. They could just cash it at the liquor store for that matter.

[rednekkhikkchikk]

Given that many, if not most, of the businesses on that list are no longer operating, it's not likely the state will ever see much of the money they owe.

 

 

The DOR doesn't need to snoop around more as much as they need to enforce a very clear set of regulations across the board. In some cases, businesses have flaunted the system for years without penalty, declared immediate bankruptcy when finally confronted, and open the next week under a new name. The goal should be not letting individual violations get too out of hand. I know it's bad PR to put a business gainfully employing people out of business, but they can't be allowed to just slide because someone in the DOR has tried to cooperate in the collection of taxes or was too busy to do a proper job of enforcement. A guy is far more likely to pay up for a few hundred bucks than several thousand, and if he can't afford to pay taxes now, he is unlikely to be able to pay in the future. Payment plans may be called for in some situations, but miss a payment and like the IRS, adios.

 

Exactly.

Edited July 30, 2010 by rednekkhikkchikk

[Deepgreenlighting]

I tell you why.... As a business owner myself and one who has to pay taxes on some of my sales....

 

 

The Taxes and the way to collect taxes here in the state of Ga STINK!!!!!!

The website of the Dept of Revenue STINK!!!!!

the 1.5 hour wait time to get a live person on the phone to answer questions....STINK!!!!!

The State of Ga makes it difficult to figure out taxes and makes it a dang ALGEBRA/Trig questions to figure out what to pay to whom

 

There has GOT to be an easier way....... An Easier Form to fill out, One that i wont have to pay a CPA to do for me every Qtr.

 

Its confusing... At least it is for Me ... a new business owner who had several issues that took me over 4 months and 6 phone calls to get resolved. If it were just "simple" i promise the sales tax collection would be "simple" or at least a little easier and less costly.

[JerryLovedLSU]

This kind of goes along the same lines as the 1099 outrage.

[michelay1000]

How many businesses are flying under the radar? How much does that damage our education system if over half of a state's budget is education costs?

That is quite an interesting list

[hart408]

I tell you why.... As a business owner myself and one who has to pay taxes on some of my sales....

 

 

The Taxes and the way to collect taxes here in the state of Ga STINK!!!!!!

The website of the Dept of Revenue STINK!!!!!

the 1.5 hour wait time to get a live person on the phone to answer questions....STINK!!!!!

The State of Ga makes it difficult to figure out taxes and makes it a dang ALGEBRA/Trig questions to figure out what to pay to whom

 

There has GOT to be an easier way....... An Easier Form to fill out, One that i wont have to pay a CPA to do for me every Qtr.

 

Its confusing... At least it is for Me ... a new business owner who had several issues that took me over 4 months and 6 phone calls to get resolved. If it were just "simple" i promise the sales tax collection would be "simple" or at least a little easier and less costly.

 

Thank you for that perspective. I can understand that.

 

Is there business software that can help you with this task?

 

This kind of goes along the same lines as the 1099 outrage.

 

Why? 1099s are reported income.

 

That is quite an interesting list

 

I'm glad LTD explained that some of them are being protested and/or adjusted because if he didn't I would be screaming, "Take the boat! Take the Escalade! Take the house on the golf course!" If you can't afford to pay your taxes, you can't afford a boat.

[michelay1000]

I'm glad LTD explained that some of them are being protested and/or adjusted because if he didn't I would be screaming, "Take the boat! Take the Escalade! Take the house on the golf course!" If you can't afford to pay your taxes, you can't afford a boat.

How far back can they "protest" them? Some were from 2003 and several aren't in business anymore.

[bluebonnet]

And from the accountant's perspective: the system is broke. The Georgia Dept of Revenue makes the IRS look positively efficient! They can't audit and monitor every business. The can't even find their way to the break room. An example: a client has May sales tax due June 20th. The check is mailed in June 2nd and clears the bank June 12th. Two months later client receives a letter demanding payment for the May sales tax plus penalty and interest. Client (or client's accountant) than has to make copies of cleared checks and write a letter explaining the the (*&^^ that it was paid on time. Now clear the damned account! Now multiply this times 30 or 40 business clients every month.

 

And it takes two or three more months before it is cleared. I am now doing everything I can online with them for my clients, but my point is this: they can't post a payment correctly. They darn sure can't audit every business in the state. You have too many people who have a secure government job who don't have to do squat to keep it. So they get paid and get benefits but sit on their hands all day. (Word to the wise---is you need help call or go to the regional offices. NEVER waste your time with the main office in Atlanta.)

[hart408]

How far back can they "protest" them? Some were from 2003 and several aren't in business anymore.

 

Yeah, I was thining they maybe absconded with some money that should have been paid to the state (us, in other words).

 

I "protest" everytime I do my taxes. lol.

[michelay1000]

Yeah, I was thining they maybe absconded with some money that should have been paid to the state (us, in other words).

 

I "protest" everytime I do my taxes. lol.

One restaurant owes over $400,000 from what I saw

[lotstodo]

How far back can they "protest" them? Some were from 2003 and several aren't in business anymore.

The ones that are bankruptcies may be awaiting a judges decision on disbursement of assets, which should usually take no more than a year in most cases, or if that has already happened, they need to be written off as noncollectable.

 

Honestly sometimes the DOR won't start attempting collection until many years after the tax year. I got a letter from them in 2008 for a matter that was in 1997. It had to do with a discrepancy between my federal and state forms for that year. They probably put my name on a list somewhere. I didn't owe the money, but how do I fight an 11 year old claim? The amount they wanted was less than I would pay my accountant to go over the records and respond, so I just paid it. They cashed the check and I don't have them on my back.

 

DGLS, I feel your pain. I fought with DOR and DOL for 3 years until we came to a mutual understanding of what exactly I did for a living.