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You are the one who is asking to open pandora's box.

 

I suggested in the locked topic that you respond via PM if you want to appeal.

 

You have my public answer to the question ... no.

 

pubby

 

"The belief is that the political incorrectness involved in the discussion will destroy the community" - pubby on 10-22-16

No, pubby; the only thing free speech destroys are lies. - Guard dad

 

 

You are right. There is a concern that gun toting right wing people who casually call people who have never been indicted for a crime a criminal and people who tell the truth they are liars, might, like others on the right go go full "Eric Rudolf" on members of the community who, in such a discussion, may admit to participating in baby murder.

 

You do know it has happened before in counties that are less conservative than Paulding.

 

Here is a list of violent attacks associated with anti-aboortzion sentiment from the wiki.

 

 

United States Murders

In the United States, violence directed towards aboortzion providers has killed at least eleven people, including four doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, a police officer, two people (unclear of their connection), and a clinic escort;[i 1][i 2] Seven murders occurred in the 1990s.[i 3]

  • March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.[i 4]
  • July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility, the Ladies Center, in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003. The clinic in Pensacola had been bombed before in 1984 and was also bombed subsequently in 2012.[i 5]
  • December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.[i 5]
  • January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an aboortzion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Rudolph admitted responsibility; he was also charged with three Atlanta bombings: the 1997 bombing of an aboortzion center, the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, and another of a lesbian nightclub. He was charged with the crimes and received two life sentences as a result.[i 6]
  • October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death with a high-powered rifle at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Slepian's murder after being apprehended in France in 2001.[i 7]
  • May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder as Tiller served as an usher at a church in Wichita, Kansas.[i 8]
  • November 29, 2015: A shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado, left three dead and several injured, and a suspect Robert L. Dear was apprehended.[i 9][i 10][i 11] The suspect had previously acted against other clinics, and referred to himself as a "warrior for the babies" at his hearing.[i 12][i 13] Neighbors and former neighbors described the suspect as "reclusive",[i 10] and police from several states where the suspect resided described a history of run-ins dating from at least 1997.[i 11] As of December 2015, the trial of the suspect is on going;[i 12] however, on May 11, 2016, the suspect was declared by the court incompetent to stand trial.[i 14]
Attempted murder, assault, and kidnapping

According to statistics gathered by the National aboortzion Federation (NAF), an organization of aboortzion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, 13 wounded,[12] 100 butyric acid attacks, 373 physical invasions, 41 bombings, 655 anthrax threats,[13] and 3 kidnappings committed against aboortzion providers.[i 15] Between 1997 and 1990 77 death threats were made with 250 made between 1991 and 1999 .[12] Attempted murders in the U.S. included:[i 1][i 16][i 17] IN 1985 45% of clinics reported bomb threats, decreasing to 15% in 2000. One fifth of clinics in 2000 experienced some form of extreme activity. [14]

  • August 1982: Three men identifying as the Army of God kidnapped Hector Zevallos (a doctor and clinic owner) and his wife, Rosalee Jean, holding them for eight days.[15]
  • June 15, 1984: A month after he destroyed suction equipment at a Birmingham clinic, Father Edward Markley, a Benedictine priest who was the Birmingham diocesan "Coordinator for Pro-Life Activities".[i 18][i 19] (and perhaps an accomplice[citation needed]), entered the Women's Community Health Center in Huntsville, Alabama, assaulting at least three clinic workers.[citation needed] Kathryn Wood, one of the workers, received back injuries and a broken neck vertebrae while preventing Markley from splashing red paint on the clinic's equipment. Markley was convicted of first-degree criminal mischief, one count of third-degree assault, and one count of harassment in the Huntsville attack.[16]
  • August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an aboortzion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was convicted of the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence (20 years were later added for arson and acid attacks on clinics).
  • July 29, 1994: June Barrett was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.
  • December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.
  • December 18, 1996: Dr. Calvin Jackson of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood. Donald Cooper was charged with second degree attempted murder and was sentenced to 20 years. "Donald Cooper's Day of Violence", by Kara Lowentheil, Choice! Magazine, December 21, 2004.
  • October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.[i 20]
  • January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured, and lost an eye, in the bombing which also killed off-duty police officer Robert Sanderson.
Arson, bombing, and property crime

According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against aboortzion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs").[i 15]The New York Times also cites over one hundred clinic bombings and incidents of arson, over three hundred invasions, and over four hundred incidents of vandalism between 1978 and 1993.[i 21] The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio.[i 22] Incidents have included:

  • May 26, 1983: Joseph Grace set the Hillcrest clinic in Norfolk, Virginia ablaze. He was arrested while sleeping in his van a few blocks from the clinic when a patrol officer noticed the smell of kerosene.[i 23]
  • May 12, 1984: Two men entered a Birmingham, Alabama clinic on Mother's Day weekend shortly after a lone woman opened the doors at 7:25 A.M. Forcing their way into the clinic, one of the men threatened the woman if she tried to prevent the attack while the other, wielding a sledgehammer, did between $7,500 and $8,500 of damage to suction equipment. The man who damaged the equipment was later identified as Father Edward Markley. Father Markley is a Benedictine priest who was the Birmingham diocesan "Coordinator for Pro-Life Activities". Markley was convicted of first-degree criminal mischief and second-degree burglary. His accomplice has never been identified. The following month (near Father's Day), Markley entered a women's health center in Huntsville, Alabama (see above).[i 19]
  • December 25, 1984: An aboortzion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida, were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday."[i 24][i 25][i 26] The clinic, the Ladies Center, would later be the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994 and a firebombing in 2012.
  • July 27, 1987: Eight members of the Bible Missionary Fellowship, a fundamentalist church in Santee, California, attempted to bomb the Alvarado Medical Center aboortzion clinic. Church member Cheryl Sullenger procured gunpowder, bomb materials, and a disguise for co-conspirator Eric Everett Svelmoe, who planted a gasoline bomb. It was placed at the premises but failed to detonate as the fuse was blown out by wind.[17]
  • July 3, 1989: A fire was started at the Feminist Health Center clinic in Concord NH on the day U.S. Supreme Court upheld a Missouri law banning funding of public facilities as related to aboortzion. The clinic was set afire again in 2000.[i 27]
  • March 29, 1993: Blue Mountain Clinic in Missoula, Montana; at around 1 a.m., an arsonist snuck onto the premises and firebombed the clinic. The perpetrator, a Washington man, was ultimately caught, convicted and imprisoned. The facility was a near-total loss, but all of the patients' records, though damaged, survived the fire in metal file cabinets.[i 28][i 29][i 30][i 31]
  • January 1997: Eric Rudolph admitted, as part of a plea deal for the Centennial Olympic Park bombing at the 1996 Olympic Games to placing a pair of bombs that exploded at the Northside Family Planning Services clinic in the Atlanta suburb of Sandy Springs.[i 6]
  • May 21, 1998: Three people were injured when acid was poured at the entrances of five aboortzion clinics in Miami, Florida.[i 32]
  • October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.[i 33]
  • May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire, resulted in several thousand dollars' worth of damage. The case remains unsolved.[i 34][i 35][i 36] This was the second arson at the clinic.[i 37]
  • September 30, 2000: John Earl, a Catholic priest, drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being forced to the ground by the owner of the building, who fired two warning shots from a shotgun.[i 38]
  • June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington, destroyed a wall, resulting in $6,000 in damages.[i 33][i 39]
  • July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida, was the target of an arson. The case remains open.[i 33]
  • December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a "memorial lamp" for an aboortzion she had had there.[i 40]
  • September 11, 2006: David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan, crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing aboortzions; however, Edgerton is not an aboortzion clinic.[i 41]Time magazine listed the incident in a "Top 10 Inept Terrorist Plots" list.[i 42]
  • April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas, contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.[i 43]
  • May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[i 44]
  • December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Baca's girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an aboortzion at the clinic.[i 45][i 46]
  • January 22, 2009: Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness[i 47] rammed an SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.[i 48]
  • January 1, 2012: Bobby Joe Rogers, 41, firebombed the American Family Planning Clinic in Pensacola, Florida, with a Molotov cocktail; the fire gutted the building. Rogers told investigators that he was motivated to commit the crime by his opposition to aboortzion, and that what more directly prompted the act was seeing a patient enter the clinic during one of the frequent anti-aboortzion protests there. The clinic had previously been bombed at Christmas in 1984 and was the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994.[i 49]
  • April 1, 2012: A bomb exploded on the windowsill of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grand Chute, Wisconsin, resulting in a fire that damaged one of the clinic's examination rooms. No injuries were reported.
  • April 11, 2013: A Planned Parenthood clinic in Bloomington, Indiana, was vandalized with an axe.[i 50]
  • September 4, 2015: A Planned Parenthood clinic in Pullman, Washington was intentionally set on fire. No injuries were reported due to the time of day, but the FBI was involved because of a history of domestic terrorism against the clinic.[i 51]
  • October 22, 2015: A Planned Parenthood clinic in Claremont, New Hampshire was vandalized by a juvenile intruder. Damaged in the attack were computers, furniture, plumbing fixtures, office equipment, medical equipment, phone lines, windows, and walls. The flooding that resulted from the vandalism also damaged an adjacent business.[i 52][i 53]
Anthrax threats

The first hoax letters claiming to contain anthrax were mailed to U.S. clinics in October 1998, a few days after the Slepian shooting; since then, there have been 655 such bioterror threats made against aboortzion providers. None of the "anthrax" in these cases was real.[i 16][i 54]

  • November 2001: After the genuine 2001 anthrax attacks, Clayton Waagner mailed hoax letters containing a white powder to 554 clinics. On December 3, 2003, Waagner was convicted of 51 charges relating to the anthrax scare.

 

By choosing to avoid this discussion, we protect the community from that wild and crazy person who might emerge.

 

My official position on aboortzion is that I am personally against it but as it is a private matter between a woman and her doctor and I have no right to intrude into that relationship, there is no legal or moral way for me to know whether or not a woman has this procedure. Further the moment life is established in a fetus is largely a religious concept and as opinions will differ on the basis of religion and religious freedom is established by the first amendment, again, I have no say in how others act in this private realm.

 

Finally, those who think that even if a majority of the American people supported a full ban of this procedure - they don't - it would be a constitutionally protected right that was decided definitively by Roe v. Wade.

 

Current law allows for regulation of this procedure in the third trimester of pregnancy as what had been private has probably become public to those who know the woman experiencing pregnancy. Restrictions typically involve considerations such as rape, incest and the impact of the pregnancy on the health of the mother.

 

Donald Trump, in the last debate, promised to appoint judges that would overthrow Roe v. Wade which would have the companion impact of voiding all privacy considerations contained in the constitution by subsequent SCOTUS decisions. I.e. if the state can invade the privacy in the case of aboortzion without probable cause by declaring that procedure criminal, then it can invade the privacy of anyone for any reason.

 

The really sad part is we have as a society tried criminalizing this procedure and the result was a string of bloody bodies in back alleys. Oh, and the wealthy? They've always been able to afford to travel to locations where they could obtain this procedure safely and effectively meaning the result of a criminalizing this procedure does not limit the rights and freedom of the wealthy.

 

Bottom line though is this is a private matter and it is no one's business how you, I or anyone feel about it.

 

If you want to say that you think folks should vote for Donald Trump because he wants entre into every woman's bedroom in America because he doesn't believe in privacy, I would say that is a plank in his campaign. I personally believe this means he doesn't agree in any form of privacy including the privacy of teens or adults in a beauty pageant dressing rooms. I might add he also apparently likes to physically inspect whether women wearing skirts also wear panties in night clubs and airplanes. So I understand and personally reject his judgment in regard to privacy rights of all Americans including especially female Americans.

 

Whether my personal objection to abortzion will protect me from those who may act on their deplorable concepts of what it means to be an American - i.e. firebomb my property - I don't know.

 

So while I'll go out on a limb and risk expressing my opinion on Roe v. Wade, I won't provide a forum for others who may be tempted to risk being on the right of the issue, the expression of which might make them a target for some right wing crazy ... knowing that running this forum and covering the news for decades informs me there are many such individuals everywhere.

 

That said, if you want a discussion of this, go over and have one at your site.

 

pubby

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Well, you brought up a whole lot of other stuff that was more along the lines of accusations and insults.

If you're going to do that in public, then I should have the opportunity to respond.

If you prefer private conversations, that works both ways as well.

:)

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Why do you continue to foster fear and division, pubby?

I don't know Eric Rudolf, nor did I have any connection or knowledge of what he was going to do. I seriously doubt that anyone else here, regardless of their political ideology did either. Rudolph was either a nut, or a man filled with evil, or both. White people, rednecks, southerners, gun owners, pro-lifers...none of these groups represent Eric Rudolph, and being part of any of those groups don't make you a serial killer or terrorist. Indeed, pro-lifers typically believe that all human life is precious and unique, and those that have not committed a capital offense should not be put to death for any reason.

"Gun toting people" are not who we should be worried about. It's the true criminals, the nuts, the mentally ill, and those who practice evil such as ISIS who are our enemies. The failure of some to realize this has actually put us in more danger.

So please stop trying to associate good people with terrorists, racists, bigots, misogynists, or any of your other divisive terms. This country needs to be unified, not further divided.

Now...I didn't ask you for your personal beliefs regarding abooztion, but since you answered, I'm glad that you are personally opposed to it. And since you brought the subject back up in some detail above, I will assume that you are giving me permission to respond to it and expand on it some.

You say that you support free speech. I tend to think you want to be sincere about that, but the pressures of your political beliefs and/or associations sometimes seem to get in-between your support of free speech and your actual practice of it on this forum. I know that the mods originally said hell no to my request to be able to discuss aboortzion because it has become a major issue in this election. I also saw where you initially overrode them and made my thread visible again to tell us that it would be allowed in the political forum in fairness to the two candidates. I honestly was about to post and pay my respect to you for that. But then something changed, and you came back to do a flip-flop and said it would not be allowed.

So what happened, pubby? What made you change your mind? Free speech is only real if it applies to all. I have never asked for any of the Democrat's talking points to be censored, so why is this one taboo? Yes, I realize it's a volatile subject, but aren't most political issues? It really shouldn't be a political issues, but it has been made one by the opposing factions.

Candidate Clinton went out of her way to make this an issue in the last debate, prompting candidate Trump to respond in kind. So like it or not; abootzion is a MAJOR part of the presidential campaign right now. It is as important as any of the other issues, because both candidates have announced plans to stack the court so they could radically change the laws on aboortzion. One says he will appoint justices who are pro like and overturn Roe v Wade, the other says she will appoint justices who will remove any restriction on it, making it legally available up to the moment before birth.

This is HUGE! It touches most of up right down to our core values, regardless of which side of it we fall on. These two extremes of the aboortzion issue have interested a lot of people who don't usually get involved in this debate. And it seems to be affecting the polls. So if you do truly support free speech FOR ALL, I beseech you once again to allow discussion of it at least until the election is decided.

Thank you for the opportunity to respond. And please note that I didn't do any name calling, make any wild accusations or associations, and I didn't try to divert the discussion into something unrelated. I just responded honestly and from the heart. I suspect many of us here would if given the opportunity. :)



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The really sad part is we have as a society tried criminalizing this procedure and the result was a string of bloody bodies in back alleys. Oh, and the wealthy? They've always been able to afford to travel to locations where they could obtain this procedure safely and effectively meaning the result of a criminalizing this procedure does not limit the rights and freedom of the wealthy.

Even sadder is that a political party, and especially one of the current candidates for POTUS has glamorized and glorified aboortzion for the single purpose of using it as an emotional tool to influence the voters. This shouldn't be a political issue at all, it is one of morality.

 

This politicization of aboortzion has divided us and caused us to vote on this issue alone, ignoring issues such as jobs, national security, government debts, etc.

 

It has also led to an increase in the numbers of aboortzions in this country and created a cottage industry for the aboortzion providers, some of them funded by tax dollars we don't have.

 

Since Roe v Wade, almost 60 million aboortzions have been performs. That's almost 60 million potential lives that were not allowed to be born and grow into adulthood. How many taxpayers did we loose from this? How would it have affected our national debt, or our workforce production? It's a myth that most of these unborn children were from poor mothers and would have ended up on government assistance; many of them came from middle and upper class mothers who could have afforded to keep them.

 

What if one of these aborted children would have been the person who found a cure for cancer, or the real leader that most of us would love to have running for president right now? We will never know the answer to this.

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Candidate Clinton went out of her way to make this an issue in the last debate, prompting candidate Trump to respond in kind.

 

 

Went out of her way, Horse Hocky, get your facts straight. It wasn't Clinton but Chris Wallace that brought up the subject. Mostly to help fire up Trump supporters BTW.

 

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Went out of her way, Horse Hocky, get your facts straight. It wasn't Clinton but Chris Wallace that brought up the subject. Mostly to help fire up Trump supporters BTW.

 

Did I say she brought it up?

 

She pushed every emotional button she could find, and pushed them hard.

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Did I say she brought it up?

 

She pushed every emotional button she could find, and pushed them hard.

 

So just how did she "go out of her way to make it an issue" answer Wallace's question ? What was she suppose to do sit there an ignore him and give the floor to Trump with his "rip babies from womb's " bullcheeze ?

 

snapback.png

Candidate Clinton went out of her way to make this an issue in the last debate, prompting candidate Trump to respond in kind.

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So just how did she "go out of her way to make it an issue" answer Wallace's question ? What was she suppose to do sit there an ignore him and give the floor to Trump with his "rip babies from womb's " bullcheeze ?

snapback.png

I've already answered that. By intentionally pushing every emotional button she could find.
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I've already answered that. By intentionally pushing every emotional button she could find.

 

Oh that's freaking funny after Trump's ripping babies out out woman's womb comment. And let's remember it was Trump who had his turn at bat first Clinton was responding to his "emotional buttons" not the other way around.

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First, I have no doubt that the vast majority - 99.99 percent of the people who typically read this forum in a given month - would pose no threat to anyone over this issue whether or not they own a gun or not. However, that means that over 2.02 people may be close enough to the edge that they may pose a threat on this score. All it takes is one to go off the cliff on this highly emotional issue.

 

Second, you wrote:

 

Candidate Clinton went out of her way to make this an issue in the last debate, prompting candidate Trump to respond in kind. So like it or not; abootzion is a MAJOR part of the presidential campaign right now. It is as important as any of the other issues, because both candidates have announced plans to stack the court so they could radically change the laws on aboortzion. One says he will appoint justices who are pro like and overturn Roe v Wade, the other says she will appoint justices who will remove any restriction on it, making it legally available up to the moment before birth.

 

I saw that and I can only say that I'm under the impression that late term aboortzions are such an extreme case situation - no one who carries a child eight or nine months is going to want to terminate the pregnancy at that point for any but the most unique, life-threatening reasons - It is not a matter of ooops; and I can't help but think making it a law that prohibits people from these truly exceptional circumstances is like making a law saying it is against the law to hijack a spacecraft to go to space to commit suicide. I would find that circumstance unthinkable and I simply can't imagine an instance and I'm sure if there is one, it is medically a matter of life of death of the mother.

 

In that context, the child is killing its mother as surely as a teenager who goes crazy with a hatchet and beheads dear old mom. Recognize, that often this decision is made by the father and what will a loving husband do if anyone was trying to kill their wife.

 

That said, Roe v. Wade allows for reasonable regulation after the second tri-semester and certainly there are reasonable limits that can and ought to be enacted regarding the procedure after that time.

 

Beyond that, the polls show that latest poll I found on the topic shows that only 16 percent of the adults in the country feel that aboortzion should always be illegal. I would say that probably 90 percent of that 16 percent of folks are already voting for Trump. (I'm sure at least 10 percent of them recognize that he lies too often to be believed about anything.) Here are the results of this poll from pollingreport.com

aboortzione.JPG

 

finally, your trope that seeks to blame Democrats for 'popularizing' the procedure is absolute BS.

 

Everyone in the land - hell, in the world, would be tickled and elated if there were zero procedures performed. It would be absolutely wonderful and marvelous. What is also know is that this procedure has been something done by millions of women whether or not the procedure is legal. What we know is that there are bloody bodies left in back alleys if the procedure is illegal.

 

The law will not prevent the procedure, it will just drive it underground where proper post-procedure care is optional and a portion of the cost is associated with the risk to incompetent butchers who have no business in that business.

 

But to even say anyone wants the first aboortzion is a damnable lie - no one on either side of this debate wants that and those who say they do are the propagandists and liars in this discussion.

 

pubby

 

 

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Oh that's freaking funny after Trump's ripping babies out out woman's womb comment. And let's remember it was Trump who had his turn at bat first Clinton was responding to his "emotional buttons" not the other way around.

Trump got to respond to Clinton's answer, same as both candidates did for every question their opponent answered.

 

And his depiction of the partial birth aboootzion procedure was actually quite accurate. I could post it here, but I suspect pubby's grace would run out if I did.

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First, I have no doubt that the vast majority - 99.99 percent of the people who typically read this forum in a given month - would pose no threat to anyone over this issue whether or not they own a gun or not. However, that means that over 2.02 people may be close enough to the edge that they may pose a threat on this score. All it takes is one to go off the cliff on this highly emotional issue.

 

Second, you wrote:

 

I saw that and I can only say that I'm under the impression that late term aboortzions are such an extreme case situation - no one who carries a child eight or nine months is going to want to terminate the pregnancy at that point for any but the most unique, life-threatening reasons - It is not a matter of ooops; and I can't help but think making it a law that prohibits people from these truly exceptional circumstances is like making a law saying it is against the law to hijack a spacecraft to go to space to commit suicide. I would find that circumstance unthinkable and I simply can't imagine an instance and I'm sure if there is one, it is medically a matter of life of death of the mother.

 

In that context, the child is killing its mother as surely as a teenager who goes crazy with a hatchet and beheads dear old mom. Recognize, that often this decision is made by the father and what will a loving husband do if anyone was trying to kill their wife.

 

That said, Roe v. Wade allows for reasonable regulation after the second tri-semester and certainly there are reasonable limits that can and ought to be enacted regarding the procedure after that time.

 

Beyond that, the polls show that latest poll I found on the topic shows that only 16 percent of the adults in the country feel that aboortzion should always be illegal. I would say that probably 90 percent of that 16 percent of folks are already voting for Trump. (I'm sure at least 10 percent of them recognize that he lies too often to be believed about anything.) Here are the results of this poll from pollingreport.com

attachicon.gifaboortzione.JPG

 

finally, your trope that seeks to blame Democrats for 'popularizing' the procedure is absolute BS.

 

Everyone in the land - hell, in the world, would be tickled and elated if there were zero procedures performed. It would be absolutely wonderful and marvelous. What is also know is that this procedure has been something done by millions of women whether or not the procedure is legal. What we know is that there are bloody bodies left in back alleys if the procedure is illegal.

 

The law will not prevent the procedure, it will just drive it underground where proper post-procedure care is optional and a portion of the cost is associated with the risk to incompetent butchers who have no business in that business.

 

But to even say anyone wants the first aboortzion is a damnable lie - no one on either side of this debate wants that and those who say they do are the propagandists and liars in this discussion.

 

pubby

 

 

I submit that if any of your readers are that close to the edge of insanity; the cop killing posts would likely push them over the cliff quicker than this discussion would.

 

Making abootzion easy and accessible has increased the numbers of them. Making it cheap or free has further increased the numbers. Making it socially acceptable has as well. There was a speaker at the Dem's convention that pretty much said aboortzion was the greatest thing since Jesus Christ.

 

Yes, the Democrats have promoted it and glorified it, which has dramatically increased the number of abooortzions.

 

Do the Republicans use the issue for the emotional vote too? Yep. But at least they are on the side of life.

 

Are you not bothered by a politician or political party who runs on a platform of death?

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Trump got to respond to Clinton's answer, same as both candidates did for every question their opponent answered.

 

And his depiction of the partial birth aboootzion procedure was actually quite accurate. I could post it here, but I suspect pubby's grace would run out if I did.

 

So let me ask you. Say your 'Trophy Wife' were pregnant, six months in you had to rush her to the hospital because she was in horrific pain. In the waiting room the doctor told you she was in serious trouble and going to die if she took it to term what would you do. Stand on that high horse you're on right now and let her die or terminate the pregnancy ?

Edited by CitizenCain
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So let me ask you. Say your 'Trophy Wife' were pregnant, eight months in you had to rush her to the hospital because she was in horrific pain. In the waiting room the doctor told you she was in serious trouble and going to die if she took it to term what would you do. Stand on that high horse you're on right now and let her die or terminate the pregnancy ?

I suspect that this is exactly the type of mean and personal post that pubby and the mods are concerned about. And I'll just point out that it was you who made it.

 

I assume you think you know my position on abooortzion? Maybe not.

 

I am pro life. I believe human life is precious and unique. So in concept, I oppose aboootzion.

 

Admittedly, I struggle with situations such as rape, incest, life of mother, etc. Why? I dunno, maybe because I'm human and compassionate, and I realize I don't have all the answers.

 

But do you realize that such cases are but a tiny percent of total abooortzions? If we could just get people to stop having abooortzions as birth control after the fact, that would be a huge victory for us as a society.

 

But to answer your question...no worries, I'm shooting blanks these days. :rofl:

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So let me ask you. Say your 'Trophy Wife' were pregnant, six months in you had to rush her to the hospital because she was in horrific pain. In the waiting room the doctor told you she was in serious trouble and going to die if she took it to term what would you do. Stand on that high horse you're on right now and let her die or terminate the pregnancy ?

 

 

Note that he changed it from eight months to six when he realized that fetus was viable...

 

 

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I'm shutting this down. There is NO discussion of the A topic. Guard Dad, if you want to discuss the topic of aboortzion, it won't be on the open board, but you are welcome to do that in PM with Pubby. If you want to discuss why the issue is off limits, then that is what this thread was about and you can take that one up with Pubby in PM too.

This one is closed. Don't open another one.

Edited by Deputy Rafe Hollister
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