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Oh Jeeze.......for a second I thought you were posting about me and my heart broke a little bit. :)

But you weren't, so it's all good.

Nope, not you.

Your question made sense to me.

Apparently it didn't have anything to do with the cost increase, but I thought it was a fair question, not knowing anything about that topic myself.

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Health care is indeed screwed up. Much of that is due to government over reach and regulations. Top quality health care cost money, lots of money and some one has to pay. These socialist based health

Colored?   Haitians are colored?   Is that Arkansas speak? What color are they?   I haven't heard anyone refer to the black people as colored since the 60's.   Why don't you go live in Cuba s

Is there ANY Federal program or agency that couldn't perform better if it were handled by the private sector?

The rich will always get the best. Money talks and ........

 

The burden comes from the less fortunate and the less than less fortunate. I don't believe any healthcare professional would be willing to just let a person die. So, they need care. The way it was before worked so that those people would use the ER as their doctors. That's costs big money, big money. Under this act at least they would have a policy in place and would pay at least something, i.e. Tax refund towards their healthcare.

Between me and my husband we had a combined income last year of under $25,000. My pay was under $3000 last year (I work seasonally) I am the only one of us covered by the ACA (hubby is on Medicare). We had to pay BACK over $100 of subsidy I received last year to help pay for my health insurance. Where is that "tax refund toward their healthcare"? I sure didn't see it this year when I did tax returns either. I saw many people with low middle and middle incomes having to repay portions of subsidies. Like I did.

 

I'm grateful for the insurance I have. I'm grateful the hospitals and doctors that are in network are there. Without them, I would have died. Because, yeah, the hospital closest to me probably would have let me die while they decided what was wrong with me, while they were waiting for the helicopter to come get me to take me to a decent hospital or they would have sent me home saying there was nothing wrong with me. And knowing them, they would have gotten my insurance information wrong!

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If you're inferring that it increased when I retired it did not.

I was very fortunate to have worked with a company that paid for my insurance.

As a bargained employee when I retired my insurance was $10 per month for the exact same coverage I had while working. Miminal co-pays and cheap drugs with no deductible.

As soon as obamacare was passed it jumped to $100 each month then $200 each month with increases in co-pays and deductibles, each year.

And it keeps going up.

What's your point?

My point is that you now have Medicare as well. When you were working you were part of a huge guaranteed pool of insurers so of course it would be lower. I doubt your premiums would have gone down when you had to go to the individual sector because of retirement.

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Healthcare is different. Healthcare is very different. Healthcare is life and death and quality of life and needs to be regulated.

 

Obamacare is not anything but regulation. Your coverage is still controlled by private enterprise. They either play within the rules or they don't. They are still making plenty of money. They just want more, more, more. Not when it comes to life and death.

I'll mention again that there would be oversight by the states.That IS regulation. Why aren't you getting this? Just not regulation by the feds.

 

Obamacare is far more than regulation. And it's excessive regulation. Like where it made made policies people liked illegal. Regulation that has made costs spiral out of control so much, insurance companies are losing money on it and pulling out. Regulation that is now requiring specialists for stuff that general practitioners used to do. It's a disaster! Even the non-partisan CBO knows it. They're pumping more borrowed money into it left and right, and the worst is not here yet.

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The rich will always get the best. Money talks and ........

 

The burden comes from the less fortunate and the less than less fortunate. I don't believe any healthcare professional would be willing to just let a person die. So, they need care. The way it was before worked so that those people would use the ER as their doctors. That's costs big money, big money. Under this act at least they would have a policy in place and would pay at least something, i.e. Tax refund towards their healthcare.

The rich always gets the best of everything. They get the best healthcare now. What would change?

 

In countries with 100% socialized medicine, the rich come here or go to other countries where they can buy what they want.

 

How does that hurt you? So long as everyone gets quality healthcare, it's fair.

 

Are you suggesting that the rich be made to drive the same cars as we do? Live in the same houses? As long as your car is safe and gets you where you need to go, and as long as your house keeps you warm and dry; what right do you have to have the same as what rich people have?

I'll ask a question...

 

What can government do cheaper and more efficiently than the private sector does?

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I'll mention again that there would be oversight by the states.That IS regulation. Why aren't you getting this? Just not regulation by the feds.

Obamacare is far more than regulation. And it's excessive regulation. Like where it made made policies people liked illegal. Regulation that has made costs spiral out of control so much, insurance companies are losing money on it and pulling out. Regulation that is now requiring specialists for stuff that general practitioners used to do. It's a disaster! Even the non-partisan CBO knows it. They're pumping more borrowed money into it left and right, and the worst is not here yet.

Obamacare did not make them illegal. They made themselves illegal by not agreeing to provide coverage for coverages like pre existing conditions and lifetime limits.

 

Not for nothing, the right did nothing about this when they had the chance, but once Obama got involved.......boy, all of the sudden.....they were a house on fire!

 

I don't pretend to have all the answers but what I do know is that people should be cared for by the medical community and that care should not be based on profit.

 

It's my bedtime. Have a good night.

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Well I know this much.

 

Last year I paid $1.86 for an RX. This year it's $22.00.

 

All of my prescriptions have gone up as they have since obamacare was passed.

 

It's a dismal failure.

 

I'm lucky I've got the coverage I do. But my children and grandchildren don't and they can't afford the premiums under obamacare.

 

We've done this song and dance before.

 

You all love socialism so much, enjoy because it's coming.

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Wouldn't it be great to have a federal level election where neither Republican nor Democrat can say...

The other guy will take your Social Security away if he wins

The other guy will make healthcare costs go up

The other guy will take your benefits away

The other guy take school lunches away

The other guy will let men pee in women's restrooms

Etc, etc etc

 

Seriously...doesn't it sound great? The candidates might actually talk about the real issues.

How do we get there? Take this stuff away from them. Take it out of their control and send back to the states. AS THE FOUNDERS WANTED IT.

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Obamacare did not make them illegal. They made themselves illegal by not agreeing to provide coverage for coverages like pre existing conditions and lifetime limits.

 

Not for nothing, the right did nothing about this when they had the chance, but once Obama got involved.......boy, all of the sudden.....they were a house on fire!

 

I don't pretend to have all the answers but what I do know is that people should be cared for by the medical community and that care should not be based on profit.

 

It's my bedtime. Have a good night.

Obamacare did make them illegal because they had increased levels of coverage that these policies didn't meet. A lot of people like policies that just cover the major stuff. It's what we always did; bought policies that covered real problems, not snotty noses.

 

There's nothing wrong with profit so long as long as the private sector can still do it cheaper and better than the government. And they virtually always can. Why? Because they use good people who know how to do things efficiently. You won't get people like that in healthcare unless the profit potential is there.

 

So can I assume that doctors should not make a profit after going to school for ten years? Is it bad for hospitals to make profits? Is it bad for insurance companies to make profits? Most of them are now under your Socialized system. If you like paying $40 for a Tylenol in a hospital, then stick with the program. Walgreens (profit based market driven company) gives you 24 for $5.99.

 

Damn those profiteers!!

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I'm not sure everyone else is paying so much more. You look at the Internet boards and you see outrageous quotes from people. Not sure that's correct.

 

Everyone seems to forget that premiums never did anything but increase.

 

Healthcare will continue to increase until we tell them what they can and can't get away with. WE are writing the checks.

 

 

 

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It's amazing how all there are all these news reports out there stating how health care coverage, deductibles, co-pays, and out of pocket expenses have increased significantly more each year since Obama Care was implemented, but the supporters of the left all deny it. Obama Care is failing, yet those on the left continue to support it and claim it's successful.

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Health care is indeed screwed up. Much of that is due to government over reach and regulations. Top quality health care cost money, lots of money and some one has to pay. These socialist based health care systems you hear of Canada, France, etc. have terrible very selective care paid for by unbelievably high taxes. Do you want the government to decide if your mother meets the requirement to have her heart surgery? Do you want the government to decide where, when, who and if she gets the procedure she needs to stay alive? If you do that is your prerogative but consider this. The wealthy, connected will always have first choice in any system because people can be corrupted and pressured into making decisions based on who request these services. Case in point a friend of mines brother (48) just passed away at a major US healthcare facility waiting on the same T-Cell therapy that Jimmy Carter received in a couple of weeks. He was on the list but not the top of the list with no political connections. I know a guy (51) who cannot afford Obamacare but is forced by the government to pay a penalty because he cannot afford to get healthcare. He works everyday, single handedly putting his son through college, paying his mortgage on time. Does that make any freaking sense at all? He was told if he was a dead beat dad he could qualify for assistance, really how screwed up is that. I work around doctors a lot my best accounts are healthcare facilities. To a person every one of them despise Obamacare and several have closed up private practices. Is the reason money? Yep pretty much. Is that greed? Maybe in some cases but not all. These doctors are good doctors. They invest a fortune in education, office space, staff, medicines, insurance and mountains of unnecessary regulatory requirements. The federal government should have two jobs. Common defense and foreign policy. You folks who want the government to do everything have a mind set as foreign to me as a pedophile. I just don' get it.

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During the campaign of 1980, Ronald Reagan announced a recipe to fix the nation's economic mess. He claimed an undue tax burden, excessive government regulation, and massive social spending programs hampered growth. Reagan proposed a phased 30% tax cut for the first three years of his Presidency. The bulk of the cut would be concentrated at the upper income levels. The economic theory behind the wisdom of such a plan was called SUPPLY-SIDE or TRICKLE-DOWN ECONOMICS.

 

6a9ee8c473d6d41d7a03a406fc00bdec.jpg

 

Here's the theory.

 

abe2d9633553bd8f6625647385483375.jpg

Edited by The Postman
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I don't understand why you liberals are so jealous of the rich. There will always be rich folks.

 

We can keep capitalism and folks can work hard and smart and get what they want and as rich as they want to be.

 

Or we can adept to socialism and everyone will subsist except for the rulers and dictators.

 

I prefer capitalism where at least I have a fighting chance to have something. Under socialism you will never have more than the dictator decides.

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Liberals are not socialist, Lo!

 

http://www.younghipandconservative.com/2012/06/yes-nazis-were-socialists.html

 

 

 

Over and over again I find myself clarifying that fascism and Nazism were sister movements to socialism and communism. This runs counter to the cheap political trick where modern capitalist-loving right wing movements are likened to Hitler and his followers. This is married to the false belief that free market economic policies and racism are intertwined, and therefore the Nazis must have loved capitalism because they hated Jews so much.

This is complete nonsense.

The socialist roots of Nazism doesn't require any digging; it's right there in the groups official title "The National Socialist German Workers Party." Sometimes this is waved off by saying they were "right wing socialists." As Jonah Goldberg wrote in Liberal Fascism, that remark is justified by the warmongering nature of fascism, not by its economic policies.

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Capitalism. It's a beautiful thing!

 

Drug price increases 5,000 percent overnight

The rights to Daraprim were purchased in August by a new company, Turing Pharmaceuticals, which promptly increased the price from $13.50 per tablet to $750 per tablet -- a 5,000 percent jump -- the New York Times reported.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/generic-drug-price-increases-5000-percent-overnight/

 

Doctors blast ethics of $100,000 cancer drugs

Drug companies are profiteering, the doctors say, by charging whatever the market will bear for medications that patients literally can't live without.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/25/news/economy/cancer-drug-cost/index.html

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Drug price increases 5,000 percent overnight

The rights to Daraprim were purchased in August by a new company, Turing Pharmaceuticals, which promptly increased the price from $13.50 per tablet to $750 per tablet -- a 5,000 percent jump -- the New York Times reported.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/generic-drug-price-increases-5000-percent-overnight/

 

Doctors blast ethics of $100,000 cancer drugs

Drug companies are profiteering, the doctors say, by charging whatever the market will bear for medications that patients literally can't live without.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/25/news/economy/cancer-drug-cost/index.html

 

 

Trump was not nominated by the American people, for nothing, CC! They are damned tired of the GOP doing what they've always done, while expecting different results.

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Drug price increases 5,000 percent overnight

The rights to Daraprim were purchased in August by a new company, Turing Pharmaceuticals, which promptly increased the price from $13.50 per tablet to $750 per tablet -- a 5,000 percent jump -- the New York Times reported.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/generic-drug-price-increases-5000-percent-overnight/

Doctors blast ethics of $100,000 cancer drugs

Drug companies are profiteering, the doctors say, by charging whatever the market will bear for medications that patients literally can't live without.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/25/news/economy/cancer-drug-cost/index.html

Excesses, for sure. But they will come down.

 

More importantly...without profit potential, we wouldn't have most breakthrough drugs.

 

That's what you commies don't seem to get; it's the potential rewards that drive most of out best and brightest to do these great things.

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Health care is indeed screwed up. Much of that is due to government over reach and regulations. Top quality health care cost money, lots of money and some one has to pay. These socialist based health care systems you hear of Canada, France, etc. have terrible very selective care paid for by unbelievably high taxes. Do you want the government to decide if your mother meets the requirement to have her heart surgery? Do you want the government to decide where, when, who and if she gets the procedure she needs to stay alive? If you do that is your prerogative but consider this. The wealthy, connected will always have first choice in any system because people can be corrupted and pressured into making decisions based on who request these services. Case in point a friend of mines brother (48) just passed away at a major US healthcare facility waiting on the same T-Cell therapy that Jimmy Carter received in a couple of weeks. He was on the list but not the top of the list with no political connections. I know a guy (51) who cannot afford Obamacare but is forced by the government to pay a penalty because he cannot afford to get healthcare. He works everyday, single handedly putting his son through college, paying his mortgage on time. Does that make any freaking sense at all? He was told if he was a dead beat dad he could qualify for assistance, really how screwed up is that. I work around doctors a lot my best accounts are healthcare facilities. To a person every one of them despise Obamacare and several have closed up private practices. Is the reason money? Yep pretty much. Is that greed? Maybe in some cases but not all. These doctors are good doctors. They invest a fortune in education, office space, staff, medicines, insurance and mountains of unnecessary regulatory requirements. The federal government should have two jobs. Common defense and foreign policy. You folks who want the government to do everything have a mind set as foreign to me as a pedophile. I just don' get it.

:good:

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But they will come down.

 

 

Funny I haven't seen any evidence of the price of healthcare ever going down. Forty years ago we were shocked at the 100 dollar hospital bill for Tylenol and it's been an upward spiral ever since.

 

When exactly are these 'market pressures' due to kick in ?

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Funny I haven't seen any evidence of the price of healthcare ever going down. Forty years ago we were shocked at the 100 dollar hospital bill for Tylenol and it's been an upward spiral ever since.

 

When exactly are these 'market pressures' due to kick in ?

 

You won't see prices come down until government is out of it. There's no real market competition under the current system. And a whole lot of stupid regulations.
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You won't see prices come down until government is out of it. There's no real market competition under the current system. And a whole lot of stupid regulations.

 

Never guessed that would be your response. Fact is the entire healthcare industry has been crafted to avoid competition. If you doubt that try asking your doctor what he charges for an appendectomy. Try comparing hospital prices for a colonoscopy. Drug manufactures have rock hard patent protection for the drugs they produce but try suing them for adverse effects.

 

" From now on, drug companies selling vaccines in America will not be held accountable by a jury of our peers in a court of law if those vaccines brain damage us but could have been made less toxic. 2

If you get paralyzed by a flu shot or your child has a serious reaction to a vaccine required for school and becomes learning disabled, epileptic, autistic, asthmatic, diabetic or mentally retarded, you are on your own"

 

" To understand how this happened, we have to turn the clock back to 1982. That is when four big drug companies (Merck, Wyeth, Lederle, Connaught) blackmailed Congress by threatening to stop selling vaccines in America unless a law was passed giving them complete immunity from prosecution. 21

The pharmaceutical industry knew they were in big trouble because the old, crude whooping cough vaccine in the DPT shot was causing brain inflammation and death in many children; 22 the live oral polio vaccine was crippling children and adults with vaccine strain polio; 23 and Americans were filing lawsuits to hold drug companies responsible for the safety of their products."

http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/March-2011/No-Pharma-Liability--No-Vaccine-Mandates-.aspx

If Drug companies were in the automobile business they could sell you a car whose brakes only worked 3 times without your knowing and when you crashed into an 18 wheeler on the 4th time their wouldn't be a damned thing you could do about it.

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You won't see prices come down until government is out of it. There's no real market competition under the current system. And a whole lot of stupid regulations.

 

Exactly.

 

I take a med that Medicare limits the quantity of. I am only permitted a certain quantity every 90 days. I have asked for additional meds, which I would gladly pay for out of pocket. Doc couldn't do that...says it is "insurance fraud" or against Medicare regs. I can only have whatever the "average" patient is prescribed, no matter what my doctor says or what my physical condition dictates.

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Never guessed that would be your response. Fact is the entire healthcare industry has been crafted to avoid competition. If you doubt that try asking your doctor what he charges for an appendectomy. Try comparing hospital prices for a colonoscopy. Drug manufactures have rock hard patent protection for the drugs they produce but try suing them for adverse effects.

 

" From now on, drug companies selling vaccines in America will not be held accountable by a jury of our peers in a court of law if those vaccines brain damage us but could have been made less toxic. 2

If you get paralyzed by a flu shot or your child has a serious reaction to a vaccine required for school and becomes learning disabled, epileptic, autistic, asthmatic, diabetic or mentally retarded, you are on your own"

 

" To understand how this happened, we have to turn the clock back to 1982. That is when four big drug companies (Merck, Wyeth, Lederle, Connaught) blackmailed Congress by threatening to stop selling vaccines in America unless a law was passed giving them complete immunity from prosecution. 21

The pharmaceutical industry knew they were in big trouble because the old, crude whooping cough vaccine in the DPT shot was causing brain inflammation and death in many children; 22 the live oral polio vaccine was crippling children and adults with vaccine strain polio; 23 and Americans were filing lawsuits to hold drug companies responsible for the safety of their products."

http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/March-2011/No-Pharma-Liability--No-Vaccine-Mandates-.aspx

If Drug companies were in the automobile business they could sell you a car whose brakes only worked 3 times without your knowing and when you crashed into an 18 wheeler on the 4th time their wouldn't be a damned thing you could do about it.

How are they able to do that?

 

Because it's basically one big conglomerate under government regulation. Ever notice how they all charge about the same thing? Almost all healthcare is paid for either by government or insurance companies. That's who's fixing the prices.

 

If they operated in a competitive market like most businesses do, there would be little or no price fixing. Prices would be determined by what the market would bear, same as most things are. Healthcare providers would be competing against each other to try and win your business.

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Exactly.

 

I take a med that Medicare limits the quantity of. I am only permitted a certain quantity every 90 days. I have asked for additional meds, which I would gladly pay for out of pocket. Doc couldn't do that...says it is "insurance fraud" or against Medicare regs. I can only have whatever the "average" patient is prescribed, no matter what my doctor says or what my physical condition dictates.

 

You must be proactive with your healthcare. Don't take no for an answer. This is your healthcare and you need to be diligent about it.

 

Here is some additional info. On how to get around it.

 

https://www.ehealthmedicare.com/faq-what-are-prior-authorizations-quantity-limits-and-step-therapy/?redirectFormHTTP

 

Good luck.

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You won't see prices come down until government is out of it. There's no real market competition under the current system. And a whole lot of stupid regulations.

It never went down before Obamacare, why would you think if they got out of it it would go down now?

 

BTW, I've loved Obamacare (yea, I know I am the only one). My premium dropped by 1/2. Still have the same doctors & same drugs - no changes. The deductible went up slightly but still no where near what I had paid with the premium amount and my office visit fee went from $25 to $30 for my annual visit. Made out like a bandit with these changes - saved LOTS of $$$$ :)

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You have it backwards. Congress is in their pockets not the other way around.

Well, since congressmen are making a gazillionaire dollar$ in "donations" for persuation, I consider them to be in the pockets of the congressmen. These lawmakers don't want to lose their extra chump change.

 

That's how I look at. Either way WE are paying for it.

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Never guessed that would be your response. Fact is the entire healthcare industry has been crafted to avoid competition. If you doubt that try asking your doctor what he charges for an appendectomy. Try comparing hospital prices for a colonoscopy. Drug manufactures have rock hard patent protection for the drugs they produce but try suing them for adverse effects.

 

" From now on, drug companies selling vaccines in America will not be held accountable by a jury of our peers in a court of law if those vaccines brain damage us but could have been made less toxic. 2

If you get paralyzed by a flu shot or your child has a serious reaction to a vaccine required for school and becomes learning disabled, epileptic, autistic, asthmatic, diabetic or mentally retarded, you are on your own"

 

" To understand how this happened, we have to turn the clock back to 1982. That is when four big drug companies (Merck, Wyeth, Lederle, Connaught) blackmailed Congress by threatening to stop selling vaccines in America unless a law was passed giving them complete immunity from prosecution. 21

The pharmaceutical industry knew they were in big trouble because the old, crude whooping cough vaccine in the DPT shot was causing brain inflammation and death in many children; 22 the live oral polio vaccine was crippling children and adults with vaccine strain polio; 23 and Americans were filing lawsuits to hold drug companies responsible for the safety of their products."

http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/March-2011/No-Pharma-Liability--No-Vaccine-Mandates-.aspx

If Drug companies were in the automobile business they could sell you a car whose brakes only worked 3 times without your knowing and when you crashed into an 18 wheeler on the 4th time their wouldn't be a damned thing you could do about it.

Actually, you can compare charges for various surgeries, drugs, in office care, etc. Before I had my knee replacement surgeries I was thinking about paying for them out of pocket instead of buying insurance. I compared costs at the local hospitals as well as the ones up there (Cobb, Paulding, Kennestone and Emory). Cobb was more expensive than here and Kennestone was more expensive than Cobb (yes, I know they are both Wellstar hospitals). I ended up having them done at a more expensive hospital but one with a dedicated joint center and a better track record.

 

As to the drug prices, what I'm on now varies between pharmacies here--not a lot but if it costs even $100 more a year and you can drive 1/2 mile farther from home to save that, it's well worth checking prices. Using Powder Springs (where I used to live) and the drug I'm on (Xarelto) I found that price varies $130 a month between Kroger and CVS. Would I drive a mile or so more once a month to save $1600 a year? You betcha! The price doesn't vary that much here. Less than $10 a month.

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When it comes down to life or death how much do you think the 'market will bear' ?

 

Hint; The starting bid is your entire life's savings.

Much less than what it is now.

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It never went down before Obamacare, why would you think if they got out of it it would go down now?

 

BTW, I've loved Obamacare (yea, I know I am the only one). My premium dropped by 1/2. Still have the same doctors & same drugs - no changes. The deductible went up slightly but still no where near what I had paid with the premium amount and my office visit fee went from $25 to $30 for my annual visit. Made out like a bandit with these changes - saved LOTS of $$$$ :)

The problem didn't start with Obamacare, it just got worse still.

 

The problem started years ago when you and I as individuals gave up our control. Employers started providing insurance, and government took over a huge chunk of it through the various social programs.

 

Almost all healthcare is now paid for by either the government or insurance companies. Yes, with our money, but we have no control, no decision making. They set prices, they over-regulate, they make the rules. There is virtually no market competition.

 

We are at their mercy.

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I don't understand the outrage about regulation on healthcare. We've already seen how the insurance companies would conduct business if left to their own rules. Just the pre existing conditions clause was enough of a brick wall for me. Think about all the diabetics in this country.

 

It's not perfect but I'm convinced it's better than what we had.

 

Politics don't belong in healthcare.

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It never went down before Obamacare, why would you think if they got out of it it would go down now?

 

BTW, I've loved Obamacare (yea, I know I am the only one). My premium dropped by 1/2. Still have the same doctors & same drugs - no changes. The deductible went up slightly but still no where near what I had paid with the premium amount and my office visit fee went from $25 to $30 for my annual visit. Made out like a bandit with these changes - saved LOTS of $$$$ :)

 

 

 

Is any part of your premium subsidized? Just asking.

Edited by Stonewall
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It never went down before Obamacare, why would you think if they got out of it it would go down now?

 

BTW, I've loved Obamacare (yea, I know I am the only one). My premium dropped by 1/2. Still have the same doctors & same drugs - no changes. The deductible went up slightly but still no where near what I had paid with the premium amount and my office visit fee went from $25 to $30 for my annual visit. Made out like a bandit with these changes - saved LOTS of $$$$ :)

 

 

 

 

Is any part of your premium subsidized? Just asking.

All of my policies, before and now, are through my employer - those that I'm comparing here. I've seen increases in premiums throughout all of my employers for 30 years, just happened to change with this one who I have been with for more than a decade.

All that I REALLY see changed was the name of the insurance policy they offer and the slight increase when I visit the same doctors I saw before (same thing with my husband).

I see the same things covered as before with a lower premium.

 

I will say that the 1/2 lower cost was 2014, it raised by $20 per pay cycle in 2015 and another $15 in 2016. Still WAY below what I paid in 2013. Yes, the deductible went up a bit but since I never got to it before, the new one hasn't affected me in the least.

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The problem didn't start with Obamacare, it just got worse still.

 

The problem started years ago when you and I as individuals gave up our control. Employers started providing insurance, and government took over a huge chunk of it through the various social programs.

 

Almost all healthcare is now paid for by either the government or insurance companies. Yes, with our money, but we have no control, no decision making. They set prices, they over-regulate, they make the rules. There is virtually no market competition.

 

We are at their mercy.

 

Duh ... almost all healthcare has been paid for either by the government or insurance companies since the 1940s when, under wartime wage and price controls, the offer of health care benefits was one of the tools businesses used to recruit workers.

 

The days when you dropped off a chicken in payment for your appendectomy were gone by the time I was born in the 1950s in all but the most backward of locations. Hummm ... I guess that tells us something about you.

 

The problem has been that with the insured - historically over about 80 percent of us - the medical profession started gaming the system ordering tests, etc. that had not been part of standard medical practice because they didn't exist. Those with insurance got the tests and those without did not unless they were brought to the hospital in a crisis. The trick, though, was that unlike when you go buy a car and you make the decision of what 'services' to buy, when you are under medical care it is the person selling the service that specifies largely what the service is. Hence, that new $45.00 paper pillow the hospital sells you every day, coupled with the $10 per pill aspirin tablet and $20 per pill tylenol tablet all add up whether you want them or not. Further, unlike even the restaurant that frowns when when you bring your own beverage, the hospital will deny you use of your own ten cent tylenol tablet.

 

And it has been like that since the 1970s when the cost of medical care started increasing at a rate five times that of inflation. The only other 'institution' with cost increases like that is higher education and even the rapid rise in those costs do not compare.

 

Your recollection of what was is so flawed that it is laughable GD ... seriously ... where did you grow up, Haiti?

 

pubby

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The days when you dropped off a chicken in payment for your appendectomy were gone by the time I was born in the 1950s in all but the most backward of locations. Hummm ... I guess that tells us something about you.

 

 

 

pubby

 

Is that why you Arkansawyers like fried chicken so much?

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Duh ... almost all healthcare has been paid for either by the government or insurance companies since the 1940s when, under wartime wage and price controls, the offer of health care benefits was one of the tools businesses used to recruit workers.

 

The days when you dropped off a chicken in payment for your appendectomy were gone by the time I was born in the 1950s in all but the most backward of locations. Hummm ... I guess that tells us something about you.

 

The problem has been that with the insured - historically over about 80 percent of us - the medical profession started gaming the system ordering tests, etc. that had not been part of standard medical practice because they didn't exist. Those with insurance got the tests and those without did not unless they were brought to the hospital in a crisis. The trick, though, was that unlike when you go buy a car and you make the decision of what 'services' to buy, when you are under medical care it is the person selling the service that specifies largely what the service is. Hence, that new $45.00 paper pillow the hospital sells you every day, coupled with the $10 per pill aspirin tablet and $20 per pill tylenol tablet all add up whether you want them or not. Further, unlike even the restaurant that frowns when when you bring your own beverage, the hospital will deny you use of your own ten cent tylenol tablet.

 

And it has been like that since the 1970s when the cost of medical care started increasing at a rate five times that of inflation. The only other 'institution' with cost increases like that is higher education and even the rapid rise in those costs do not compare.

 

Your recollection of what was is so flawed that it is laughable GD ... seriously ... where did you grow up, Haiti?

 

pubby

Why do you always have to be so nasty? Nothing I have posted was incorrect.

 

Besides, you're making my point for me. Government and insurance company control, excessive regulation, and lack of market competition is exactly what has caused prices to get out of hand.

 

No one is suggesting dropping a chicken off for payment, that was an ignorant comment on your part. Do you pay your mechanic with a chicken? Probably not. So why can't your mechanic charge you anything he wants? Why can't all mechanic shops get together and do price fixing? Because they have to compete with each other. You have the power to pick the mechanic you want, and the power to fire him and get another if you want. You have the power to choose which services you want, whether you want to fix that noisy bearing now or wait until next month, whether to use conventional oil or synthetic.

 

Can you do much of that with healthcare? Nope. You might can change doctors if you want, but it's gonna cost the same wherever you go and you'll get the same crap wherever you go. Why? Because it's controlled by the government and insurance companies. You have no control. Nada, zip.

 

The solution is putting power back into the hands of the individual and allowing the magic of market competition to work.

 

Speaking of oil changes...remember back when you had to go to the mechanics shop for that? It cost more, took longer, etc. Someone got the idea of opening a dedicated oil change place.Now you drive up, someone meets you with a smile, you don't even have to get out of the car at some. 10-15 minutes later you're driving out with fresh oil and a filter at a pretty reasonable price. Innovative ideas could be implemented into healthcare if the industry had the freedom to. But under the current system, they are very limited by the government and insurance companies. Basically more of the same, except the price keeps spiraling out of control.

 

BTW...I'm from the south but not from anywhere nearly as backwards as Arkansas. And I'm considerably more successful than you are, so your insults are only making you look ignorant and classless.

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