Jump to content
Paulding.com
Sign in to follow this  
CitizenCain

Two NYC Officers shot.

Recommended Posts

Have you ever been trained in and conducted investigations? I have. In this matter the Ferguson PD automatically gave the investigation to another PD. They had to leave the body where it lay for those investigators. It was the investigating agency's responsibility to collect data, take photographs, and create a sketch of the scene. I like how you try to present yourself as an authority in this matter, yet you don't have the training and expertise to make such a call.

 

Have you ever shot and killed somebody? Have you any clue what it does to the psyche of a person?

 

 

I bet he knows how to ask you if you want fries with that, though.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you ever been trained in and conducted investigations? I have. In this matter the Ferguson PD automatically gave the investigation to another PD. They had to leave the body where it lay for those investigators. It was the investigating agency's responsibility to collect data, take photographs, and create a sketch of the scene. I like how you try to present yourself as an authority in this matter, yet you don't have the training and expertise to make such a call.

 

Have you ever shot and killed somebody? Have you any clue what it does to the psyche of a person?

I know plenty of police officers who know procedures and I have spoken to them. Stop dodging the question. Why wasn't dispatch called and why did he call his supervisor on a cell phone? Why would it take 4 hours for them to start collecting data?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know plenty of police officers who know procedures and I have spoken to them. Stop dodging the question. Why wasn't dispatch called and why did he call his supervisor on a cell phone? Why would it take 4 hours for them to start collecting data?

 

That punk thug wasn't going anywhere, what difference did it make if they took 4 hours or 4 days?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I appreciate your honesty in suggesting that a bonus be offered to Darren Wilson for his shooting of the kid. The kid had committed a crime and should have been dealt with in the courts. The evidence - including the autopsies - remains less than convincing to me that the officers narrative of how the incident went down was factual. I've never said the guy is 'guilty' ... what I've noted is that he needs to defend his actions in a full court room setting for justice to prevail. I suspect that it would be tough, but not impossible, to get a conviction.

 

 

Zorrow, I'm somewhat famous on pcom for the quote "Perfection eludes us all." That pretty much acknowledges that I don't expect perfect. Overall, I've been supportive of Law Enforcement and have worked directly with numerous LEO agencies over the past 40+ years. I've only known, for instance, one bad sheriff - the first Republican Sheriff of Paulding County Perry Grogan, whom I believe was guilty of much more than the multiple counts of child molestation that sent him to prison.

 

I'm sure your familiar with the flight/fight response. We know that the kid initially was involved in a fight response; the gun was fired and his thumb was hit and the kid reacted with the flight response. In that condition, hearing and any number of other senses are constrained as the body seeks to use all of its resources to make an escape. The body is pretty much focused on that 'escape.' I'm pretty sure if the officer didn't fire again at the kid while he was running away, he probably would have kept going.

 

The point being that something entered into the moment that turned his flight response back into a fight response. I'm wondering if it wasn't a bullet that passed within inches of the fleeing kids ear that had him turn.

 

If it was, the question becomes whether the shot taken at the fleeing unarmed youth was a violation of the SCOTUS decision that made state laws allowing officers to shoot fleeing suspects unconstitutional and illegal.

 

Was the situation in the altercation at the police SUV enough to make that SCOTUS decision moot on the point of the inherent public danger of letting the kid run? If not, then the act of shooting at the kid - the witness and friend of the kid who said he was shot in the back was just, I feel, assumed that a shot hit that actually hit ... and therefore the failure of his testimony.

 

As far as the hands up, don't shoot scenario .... that would be the logical result of the decision under those circumstances to stop and turn.

 

Additional rounds to the side, arms and chest would also logically invoke the charge because, well, flight didn't work and the base-part of the human brain that finds itself in this kind of situation logically adopts the fight response when flight fails. Consider it the rat trapped in a corner response.

 

Indeed, that it what is objectionable about the officers' response to me. The altercation invoked a base-level flight-fight response and the officer didn't have the skills or inclination to avoid or diffuse it creating a situation that allowed him to treat a human being like a rabid dog. That the officer has a role in creating and escalating the situation would be the source of culpability on his part. Indeed, one might even presume that his training was so inadequate that he too was in the midst and under control of the same animal-level reactive pattern of the flight/fight response.

 

As a citizen I want and expect officers to be trained well enough that they can avoid and diffuse situations that might devolve into that instinctive level of action/reaction. That there seemed to be no care to do so in this situation seems an avoidable tragedy. We should explore it and understand it for what it is.

 

So what about the race issue? Science proves that most people - even blacks - when conducting games to determine differences based on the color of skin, show that most people are quicker to pull the trigger on people of color in a gaming situation where you are to determine from the scene, whether the images on the screen are a threat or not. The point being that the reaction time on white faces is slower - meaning more thought is put into the situation - than when people are confronted by a black face. The sense of fear, concern, etc. seems to be based on the color of the subject and, with reduced reaction times to black faces, more mistakes are made in regard to black faces.

 

(One of my favorite scenes in this regard is the selection scene in the original Men in Black in which Will Smith doesn't shoot all the various aliens - and hesitates until he unloads on the young white girl because of the clues to her 'nefarious' activities.)

 

 

 

So, have you shot or killed anyone Zorrow? Should we accept your expertise on this matter because you have?

 

pubby

 

I have never shot anyone, but I have had to pull my weapon out on a few occasions. When I pulled my weapon out, it was warranted. Had they not complied with my commands to drop theirs, I would have been justified to shoot them. Each one was a different situation, but each had very similar elements to the others.

 

The bottom line on three autopsies clearly substantiate that Brown was shot facing the officer. Not one single round hit him during "flight."

 

You made a statement that you have "worked" with law enforcement on several occasions. In what capacity?

 

Again you demonstrate your childish behavior when referring me to "Zorrow" twice in your response.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There could be a video tape showing everything that happened in the Brown/Wilson incident and there are people that would swear the tape was tampered with.

 

There are those who, for whatever reasons, see the police and judicial system as completely corrupt.

Ohhhh, they will say it isn't completely corrupt, but let something go against the way they think it should go and then they will howl at the moon, conspiracy, lies, corruption, unfair!

Nothing and I mean nothing will ever change their minds, no facts, no logic, no common sense will make any difference, if it doesn't go their way, it is wrong!

 

There are others that see the police and the judicial system as a flawed system that overall tries to get it right.

They are willing to try and listen to facts, logic and common sense and then make a decision.

Based on facts, logic and common sense, they may decide that the police and the system got it right or they may decide that they got it wrong.

But they try and have an open mind.

 

Then there are those who see the police and the system as rarely, if ever, wrong.

They are just like the first group, except nothing will make them see it any other way than the police and the system are rarely, if ever, wrong.

 

I try my damnedest to be in the middle group and for the most part, unless I am screwing around with someone from the 1st group, I think I have tried to show that here.

I know that several will disagree with that statement and who knows, they may have a point.

 

I see no reason, for me, to continue to beat this horse as I am not helping anyone and they are not helping me.

I will agree to disagree with those who see things from the other view point and I to you I say....I ain't got nothing clever, so that's all.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know plenty of police officers who know procedures and I have spoken to them. Stop dodging the question. Why wasn't dispatch called and why did he call his supervisor on a cell phone? Why would it take 4 hours for them to start collecting data?

I didn't dodge it. The human psyche under extremely stressful situations can be unpredictable. He called his supervisor on the phone immediately afterward. For all any of us know that could have been part of the department's SOP. I worked for a PD where it was SOP to use our cell phone under certain situations so the scanner listeners couldn't hear it. The reason being, to proven a bunch of people from traveling to the scene to be gawkers, which would put them in the way.

 

Some of those situations were shootings, suicides, homicides, etc. If you want an explanation as to why, please ask. Also ask some of your LEO friends it their departments have similar policies.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't dodge it. The human psyche under extremely stressful situations can be unpredictable. He called his supervisor on the phone immediately afterward. For all any of us know that could have been part of the department's SOP. I worked for a PD where it was SOP to use our cell phone under certain situations so the scanner listeners couldn't hear it. The reason being, to proven a bunch of people from traveling to the scene to be gawkers, which would put them in the way.

 

Some of those situations were shootings, suicides, homicides, etc. If you want an explanation as to why, please ask. Also ask some of your LEO friends it their departments have similar policies.

 

You are reaching. Dispatch was never notified. Why not??? He called his supervising officer only. Why??? Why was the kid's body left in the street for 4 hours?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You are reaching. Dispatch was never notified. Why not??? He called his supervising officer only. Why??? Why was the kid's body left in the street for 4 hours?

 

Because that was how long it took to process the scene and release the body.

Now quit asking.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I have never shot anyone, but I have had to pull my weapon out on a few occasions. When I pulled my weapon out, it was warranted. Had they not complied with my commands to drop theirs, I would have been justified to shoot them. Each one was a different situation, but each had very similar elements to the others.

 

The bottom line on three autopsies clearly substantiate that Brown was shot facing the officer. Not one single round hit him during "flight."

 

You made a statement that you have "worked" with law enforcement on several occasions. In what capacity?

 

Again you demonstrate your childish behavior when referring me to "Zorrow" twice in your response.

 

I don't dispute that no shot hit Brown while he was fleeing. The officer alluded to additional shots being fired while Brown was fleeing but his description was vague in regard to where he was and where he was aiming. We do know that the officer emptied the clip and there were several shots not accounted for with holes the kids body or the body of the police vehicle.

 

The scenario where a shot whizzes over the guys shoulder inches from his head but misses is consistent with the autopsy.

 

I was the police beat reporter for two daily newspapers as well as the coverage of the police for two other weeklies. I went on numerous ride-a longs, appeared at murder scenes, car wrecks, etc. Interviewed victims and in some cases perpetrators. Even helped break up a bar-shooting incident.

 

One of the biggest changes I've noted in the span of the last 40+ years is that in the old days, LEO's were empowered to speak for themselves. Now, it is more difficult to talk to anyone that actually knows anything as agencies like to push things through their 'spokesperson.'

 

pubby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You are reaching. Dispatch was never notified. Why not??? He called his supervising officer only.

 

 

Remember that backup officers were on the site within just a few seconds. And they most likely switched to a tactical channel. So unless you have transcripts of the entire Ferguson PD's radio traffic for that afternoon, maybe you ought to just shut up before you make yourself look stupid (again).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Because that was how long it took to process the scene and release the body.

Now quit asking.

If you don't have the answer just say so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you don't have the answer just say so.

I think I now know the answer to a few of the questions about why your ex left.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Remember that backup officers were on the site within just a few seconds. And they most likely switched to a tactical channel. So unless you have transcripts of the entire Ferguson PD's radio traffic for that afternoon, maybe you ought to just shut up before you make yourself look stupid (again).

Are you saying you have read the transcripts? If so, why are you speculating? Just because you don't know the answers, there is no need to get uncivil. If they have a tactical channel why call the supervisor on his cell phone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I now know the answer to a few of the questions about why you ex left.

 

So, you don't like the questions to which you have no answers and you choose to get personal? I think I have to agree with you. Please ignore my posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, you don't like the questions to which you have no answers and you choose to get personal? I think I have to agree with you. Please ignore my posts.

Nope, just I don't like people who refuse to use any common sense.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope, just I don't like people who refuse to use any common sense.

Don't look in a mirror often do you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you saying you have read the transcripts? If so, why are you speculating? Just because you don't know the answers, there is no need to get uncivil. If they have a tactical channel why call the supervisor on his cell phone?

No, not saying any such thing, nor am I speculating. In YOUR post (#167 above), YOU stated that dispatch was NEVER notified. I was just pointing out to your apparently limited understanding that there were others on the scene who had radios and telephones. Unless you can prove that there was NO communication to dispatch, you are wrong. Period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, not saying any such thing, nor am I speculating. In YOUR post (#167 above), YOU stated that dispatch was NEVER notified. I was just pointing out to your apparently limited understanding that there were others on the scene who had radios and telephones. Unless you can prove that there was NO communication to dispatch, you are wrong. Period.

Google is your friend. Generally when your argument deteriorates, personal attacks follow. Sad...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zta9FyoA7TU

 

 

Edited by Domestic Violence by Proxy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I now know the answer to a few of the questions about why your ex left.

 

That was a pretty low blow, even for a nastyassed Republican.

Edited by CitizenCain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was a pretty low blow, even for a nastyassed Republican.

I am sure she just got tired of trying to explain 2+2 over and over also.

I am not a republican.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sure she just got tired of trying to explain 2+2 over and over also.

I am not a republican.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

People that live in glass houses.....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That was a pretty low blow, even for a nastyassed Republican.

That's really pretty funny, especially from someone whose primary information upload comes from sniffing Arianna Huffington's bicycle seat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's really pretty funny, especially from someone whose primary information upload comes from sniffing Arianna Huffington's bicycle seat.

 

At least my sniffer hasn't been damaged by years of lead poisoning.

 

* I'm sorry picking on the mentally handicapped was uncalled for please accept my apology.

Edited by CitizenCain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Remember that backup officers were on the site within just a few seconds. And they most likely switched to a tactical channel. So unless you have transcripts of the entire Ferguson PD's radio traffic for that afternoon, maybe you ought to just shut up before you make yourself look stupid (again).

You are absolutely correct.

If you don't have the answer just say so.

I have processed many crime scenes where I spent hours there. Do you even know what's involved?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are absolutely correct.

I have processed many crime scenes where I spent hours there. Do you even know what's involved?

Please enlighten me by answering the question. The dispatch recording says they need crowd control. Then they find out about the shooting through the news media not from the officer. If you are not going to answer the question just say so. They didn't start working the crime scene immediately. It was hours later. All of this back and forth is unnecessary. You are no more informed than anyone else as to why things were done the way they were done in that situation at that time. They do raise questions of impropriety. It doesn't take 4 hours to start processing a crime scene.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Google is your friend. Generally when your argument deteriorates, personal attacks follow. Sad...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zta9FyoA7TU

 

 

The video states this is dispatching from 11:05 am to 11:35 pm; for a total time of 12 hours and 30 minutes. The length of the youtube you provided is 1 hour, 50, minutes and 56 seconds long. There's more than 10 hours of dispatching eliminated from the youtube. What was edited out?

Please enlighten me by answering the question. The dispatch recording says they need crowd control. Then they find out about the shooting through the news media not from the officer. If you are not going to answer the question just say so. They didn't start working the crime scene immediately. It was hours later. All of this back and forth is unnecessary. You are no more informed than anyone else as to why things were done the way they were done in that situation at that time. They do raise questions of impropriety. It doesn't take 4 hours to start processing a crime scene.

See my response about the length of your youtube. There's a bunch of stuff edited out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The video states this is dispatching from 11:05 am to 11:35 pm; for a total time of 12 hours and 30 minutes. The length of the youtube you provided is 1 hour, 50, minutes and 56 seconds long. There's more than 10 hours of dispatching eliminated from the youtube. What was edited out?

See my response about the length of your youtube. There's a bunch of stuff edited out.

What you need is in the release by anonymous. If you don't like what I provided, google is your friend too. There are other sources that say the dispatch received their information from the news media and not the officer at the scene. I'll just chalk it up to the fact you cannot answer the questions. It's not like you'd listen to 12 hours of dispatch communications anyway.

Edited by Domestic Violence by Proxy
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Ferguson Chief turned the case over immediately to the StLouis County police . Whatever was said on the Ferguson channels was secondary to the real investigation

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was going to say that there are a lot of ignorant people making comments in this topic, but realized it wouldn't be fair to those who are truly ignorant . . .

 

There are some really stupid people making comments in this topic.

 

Anyone who thinks wilson should have been charged regardless is stupid.

 

Anyone who thinks wilson should have had to defend his actions in a trial - and that he would have received a fair trial is stupid.

 

Anyone who can't understand plain English and hear the black "leaders" and other liberal loudmouths basically (if not directly) promoting violence and racism is stupid.

 

If you take offense to this, you're probably one of the stupid ones.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was going to say that there are a lot of ignorant people making comments in this topic, but realized it wouldn't be fair to those who are truly ignorant . . .

 

There are some really stupid people making comments in this topic.

 

 

I will always defend your right to make stupid comments .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was going to say that there are a lot of ignorant people making comments in this topic, but realized it wouldn't be fair to those who are truly ignorant . . .

 

There are some really stupid people making comments in this topic.

 

Anyone who thinks wilson should have been charged regardless is stupid.

 

Anyone who thinks wilson should have had to defend his actions in a trial - and that he would have received a fair trial is stupid.

 

Anyone who can't understand plain English and hear the black "leaders" and other liberal loudmouths basically (if not directly) promoting violence and racism is stupid.

 

If you take offense to this, you're probably one of the stupid ones.

 

If nothing else you are mildly entertaining. What would you say about the "sovereign citizens" agenda? Are they racist and violent conservatives?

 

 

Jerad Miller pulled out a handgun and put it up to the back of Soldo’s head and blasted him once, killing Soldo instantly, and then shot Beck in the neck, McMahill said.

Beck reacted to the gunfire and was shot multiple times by Amanda Miller, who pulled a handgun out of her purse, McMahill added.

Sheriff Doug Gillespie said Beck was able to fire back at the suspects. Both officers were later pronounced dead at University Medical Center.

The duo then left the restaurant and walked over to a nearby Walmart, where Jerad Miller fired a shot into the air and told people to get out, shouting that it was “a revolution,” McMahill said.

Bystander Joseph Robert Wilcox, 31, who was carrying a concealed weapon inside the store, spotted Jerad Miller and told a friend he would confront him, according to authorities. As he neared Jerad, he was shot in the ribs by Amanda and later died, McMahill said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/09/las-vegas-shooting-officers-dead-possible-white-supremacists/

 

Edited by Domestic Violence by Proxy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If nothing else you are mildly entertaining. What would you say about the "sovereign citizens" agenda? Are they racist and violent conservatives?

 

 

 

Cmorg is a very emotional person, DVbP, and has a herd mentality with the other guys, who you hear spouting bull cheeze here. You can see the self-doubt that this herd tries to hide from each other, as well as you.

 

It's to be expect from them, because of their need to maintain their made up fabrications that have nothing to do with reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Cmorg is a very emotional person, DVbP, and has a herd mentality with the other guys, who you hear spouting bull cheeze here. You can see the self-doubt that this herd tries to hide from each other, as well as you.

 

It's to be expect from them, because of their need to maintain their made up fabrications that have nothing to do with reality.

:lol: I noticed he/she had nothing to say about the "soverign citizens" police killing spree. Or the link TJB posted where the families of the police victims offer support to the fallen officers' families.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/2-deputies-shot-monroe-county/nhMPr/

 

http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/12/22/florida-police-officer-shot-run-over-car-hours-after-nypd-murders

 

Are the ones that killed those in the links mentally disturbed as well? Or are they just thugs and killers? Just want to know which is which, so we can all be politically correct on who to try to give a pass for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NYC protesters say they won't stop demonstrations despite de Blasio's wishes

However, the Rev. Al Sharpton told Reuters late Monday that de Blasio's request was too "ill-defined" to heed.

"Is a vigil a protest? Is a rally?" Sharpton asked.

Another group, The Answer Coalition, said it would go ahead with a long-planned march Tuesday evening, and denounced the mayor for what it called an "outrageous" attempt to chill free speech. The New York Post reported that a few dozen protesters staged a "die-in" at Grand Central Terminal before marching toward Times Square.

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/23/nyc-protesters-say-wont-stop-demonstrations-despite-de-blasio-wishes/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...