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A really weird response from a weatherman!


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This was the second-ever discussion online with Glen Burns, chief weatherguy at WSB-TV. Both discussions were weird and they both had to do with ponds freezing over. Like I did here, I asked Glen Burns to remind people to tell their kids not to venture out on pond ice because it couldn't support their weight and they could fall through and drown.

 

His response to me was - "It will be too warm for ponds to freeze - ponds don't freeze in less than 48 hours". This is the day BEFORE the temps were to go down to 5 degrees. I told him that warning about pond freeze was like warning about tornados - you don't wait until the damage is done before you issue a warning. He answered with a ????. I reminded him that ponds would freeze more quickly around the edges and that an important factor he wasn't considering was the depth/volume of water of the pond and that ponds don't freeze uniformly. I also said that the wind force blowing waves on an icy edge would freeze that water faster than if the water were not being blown by the 20 mph wind at about 10 degrees. His response: "wind chill has nothing to do with water freezing".

 

Further he said that it would be below freezing for fewer than 48 hours (a miscalculation), he didn't bring pond depth/size into account, nor the five degree temp nor the 20 mph wind. Today he said, (initiating the conversation again) "Good thing the ponds didn't freeze!" Geez - they froze out this way!

 

What I don't get is this: Why would he be resistant about issuing regular warnings about not walking on frozen ponds? All of the competitor stations did it. The National Weather Service issued a warning about ponds in the Metro Atlanta area. All that I can guess is that he doesn't want someone else telling him how to do his job and that there's no computer model to tell him how to respond when someone makes a suggestion.

 

So -- did ponds freeze out your way? Does anybody have any experience in talking to this guy? Why do you think he, of all of the head weatherpeople, didn't mention ponds freezing?

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Our lake froze yesterday morning and froze even more as the day went along. We didn't get up above freezing yesterday. It's still frozen today and on our end it's thicker and some kid might look at it and think he could step on it. And if he did try he would crack throuh the ice

 

Maybe Glenn thought you were in his space trying to tell him what to do. Ego?

I don't know but I do know ice is dangerous.

 

Let me know when you figure it out. ;(

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Don't know about any ponds here. But my husband's nephew posted a video on Facebook where he and his friend were playing ping pong in the backyard and using the in-ground pool as a 'ping pong table' because it was frozen!! Not sure if it was frozen all the way thru or just on top. They live in Gwinnett county.

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What a weirdo. He is not one of my favorite weatherpeople anyway.

Among other things, what was weird was that he didn't seem to be able (or maybe willing) to comprehend that a small pond can freeze all the way across while a large, deep pond might just freeze around the edges. Maybe his entire talent involves taking the computerized model of weather events and relating them to the public -- the problem being that there's no computer model for him to consult about ponds freezing over.

 

This is compounded by his unwillingness to warn of weather situations before they become dire. I have to wonder if he warned at all when the weather was cold for over a week and a couple of boys drowned in a frozen pond in 2010.

 

Don't know about any ponds here. But my husband's nephew posted a video on Facebook where he and his friend were playing ping pong in the backyard and using the in-ground pool as a 'ping pong table' because it was frozen!! Not sure if it was frozen all the way thru or just on top. They live in Gwinnett county.

 

There are small shallow ponds near where I live. They SEEMED frozen solid yesterday! But that's the point - ponds DON'T freeze solid, which is where the threat lies!

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Our lake froze yesterday morning and froze even more as the day went along. We didn't get up above freezing yesterday. It's still frozen today and on our end it's thicker and some kid might look at it and think he could step on it. And if he did try he would crack throuh the ice

 

Maybe Glenn thought you were in his space trying to tell him what to do. Ego?

I don't know but I do know ice is dangerous.

 

Let me know when you figure it out. ;(

 

I'm pretty sure that it's the ego thing, which is why, apparently, he felt the need to say, "good thing the ponds didn't freeze".

 

I'll just say that it seems like GB has issues. You know how, with some people, you like them more, the more that you talk to them? G.Burns isn't like that! He didn't seem especially intelligent/sharp, friendly, or interested in helping people. But then, some people don't make good initial - or secondary -- impressions. I've had some nice conversations with Karen Minton, btw. But this guy? Not so much....

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1389243905[/url]' post='3873738']

I'm pretty sure that it's the ego thing, which is why, apparently, he felt the need to say, "good thing the ponds didn't freeze".

 

I'll just say that it seems like GB has issues. You know how, with some people, you like them more, the more that you talk to them? G.Burns isn't like that! He didn't seem especially intelligent/sharp, friendly, or interested in helping people. But then, some people don't make good initial - or secondary -- impressions. I've had some nice conversations with Karen Minton, btw. But this guy? Not so much....

 

One end of the water was much more frozen then 98% of the water. The rest had a layer of clear ice and looked like if you threw a rock on it, the rock would sink.

But i hear you on the potential danger.

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K, that is a little weird. Maybe it is the peeing on your territory you men do. IDK. My brother fell into a frozen-over pond when he was 2 in weather just like this, so it is a real phenomenon. Thankfully, the parental units were there with us, snatched him up and took him to the house immediately, with no harm done (except to their nerves). Anyhoo, I agree - strange.

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Even the SWAMP in my area has frozen on the top layer. Volume, depth, and wind are all factors as any engineer will tell you. The guy's a make-up talking head...nothing more.

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Even the SWAMP in my area has frozen on the top layer. Volume, depth, and wind are all factors as any engineer will tell you. The guy's a make-up talking head...nothing more.

 

I tend to agree with the talking head part. Esp. when you see him on air with Brad Nitz (a nerd's nerd!) who knows things. He's been around forever, people like him, Channel 2 loves having long-term people that viewers like, so there you are.

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Maybe I am missing something, but wind chill does not have any effect on water freezing. The wind might have some effect in that it stirs the colder air temps into the water, something Glenn should be aware of from his sport of fishing. In the heat of the summer, we fish the wind blown side of a lake because of oxygen saturation of the water. This is especially true at lakes like Weiss where there are large expanses of water less than 10 feet deep.

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Glenn's thing is the "HOOK". He's so estatic when he sees a hook on the radar during severe storms.

 

I like Brad much better, but he can't talk without his hands. LOL He was on GMA this past Saturday in New York.

 

I watch Ken, Jeff and Joanne on Fox5.

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Glenn's thing is the "HOOK". He's so estatic when he sees a hook on the radar during severe storms.

 

I like Brad much better, but he can't talk without his hands. LOL He was on GMA this past Saturday in New York.

 

I watch Ken, Jeff and Joanne on Fox5.

 

Glenn likes to talk about his appendage.

 

And if you think Glenn is an ass, watch out for Mr. Cook.

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Do you have a pic,? I'd like to forward one to him.

 

I did not take one. I should have.

We have a 5 acre lake and there was a thin layer of ice across half of it yesterday morning.

I think LowRider had a pic on here of her pond frozen.

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Maybe I am missing something, but wind chill does not have any effect on water freezing. The wind might have some effect in that it stirs the colder air temps into the water, something Glenn should be aware of from his sport of fishing. In the heat of the summer, we fish the wind blown side of a lake because of oxygen saturation of the water. This is especially true at lakes like Weiss where there are large expanses of water less than 10 feet deep.

 

"Wind Chill" is a description of the effect of wind on the bare skin. It's true that W/C has nothing to do with water freezing, since it's a perception instrument. WIND does have an effect on water freezing, since wave action on an icy shore (at five degrees) freezes water more quickly around the edge. Each wave adds ice to the existing edge, thickening the ice somewhat, and extending the ice toward the middle.

 

What's strange is that Mr. Burn's pond, according to him, didn't have a "spec" (sic) of ice. A pond that is only a few feet deep would freeze faster than one that is deep, but all ponds have a shallow edge. If they don't, then they're a real drowning hazard to people and pets!

While on one hand, it's not a real big deal -- It was strange for everybody else to say that pond-freeze was a problem, but not Mr. Burns, who said that his pond had absolutely no ice at all and no other ponds had ice on them!

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"Wind Chill" is a description of the effect of wind on the bare skin. It's true that W/C has nothing to do with water freezing, since it's a perception instrument. WIND does have an effect on water freezing, since wave action on an icy shore (at five degrees) freezes water more quickly around the edge. Each wave adds ice to the existing edge, thickening the ice somewhat, and extending the ice toward the middle.

 

What's strange is that Mr. Burn's pond, according to him, didn't have a "spec" (sic) of ice. A pond that is only a few feet deep would freeze faster than one that is deep, but all ponds have a shallow edge. If they don't, then they're a real drowning hazard to people and pets!

While on one hand, it's not a real big deal -- It was strange for everybody else to say that pond-freeze was a problem, but not Mr. Burns, who said that his pond had absolutely no ice at all and no other ponds had ice on them!

 

I think that is what I just said.

 

By the way, I have two ponds. One is fairly shallow and a little over an acre and it was frozen over completely. The other is about 4 acres but much deeper. It was frozen over 60% of the surface. Glenn obviously had his head up his ass on this one. Maybe he was busy looking for appendages.

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Why do you need to be reminded not to try to walk on a frozen pond?

 

Better question is "why bother reminding someone not to walk on a frozen pond?" I remember when we had to rely on our own common sense and / or our parents common sense to stop us from doing stupid stuff. Now everyone thinks the government or the media should be telling us what to do and not to do.

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This was the second-ever discussion online with Glen Burns, chief weatherguy at WSB-TV. Both discussions were weird and they both had to do with ponds freezing over. Like I did here, I asked Glen Burns to remind people to tell their kids not to venture out on pond ice because it couldn't support their weight and they could fall through and drown.

 

His response to me was - "It will be too warm for ponds to freeze - ponds don't freeze in less than 48 hours". This is the day BEFORE the temps were to go down to 5 degrees. I told him that warning about pond freeze was like warning about tornados - you don't wait until the damage is done before you issue a warning. He answered with a ????. I reminded him that ponds would freeze more quickly around the edges and that an important factor he wasn't considering was the depth/volume of water of the pond and that ponds don't freeze uniformly. I also said that the wind force blowing waves on an icy edge would freeze that water faster than if the water were not being blown by the 20 mph wind at about 10 degrees. His response: "wind chill has nothing to do with water freezing".

 

Further he said that it would be below freezing for fewer than 48 hours (a miscalculation), he didn't bring pond depth/size into account, nor the five degree temp nor the 20 mph wind. Today he said, (initiating the conversation again) "Good thing the ponds didn't freeze!" Geez - they froze out this way!

 

What I don't get is this: Why would he be resistant about issuing regular warnings about not walking on frozen ponds? All of the competitor stations did it. The National Weather Service issued a warning about ponds in the Metro Atlanta area. All that I can guess is that he doesn't want someone else telling him how to do his job and that there's no computer model to tell him how to respond when someone makes a suggestion.

 

So -- did ponds freeze out your way? Does anybody have any experience in talking to this guy? Why do you think he, of all of the head weatherpeople, didn't mention ponds freezing?

 

This was the second-ever discussion online with Glen Burns, chief weatherguy at WSB-TV. Both discussions were weird and they both had to do with ponds freezing over. Like I did here, I asked Glen Burns to remind people to tell their kids not to venture out on pond ice because it couldn't support their weight and they could fall through and drown.

 

His response to me was - "It will be too warm for ponds to freeze - ponds don't freeze in less than 48 hours". This is the day BEFORE the temps were to go down to 5 degrees. I told him that warning about pond freeze was like warning about tornados - you don't wait until the damage is done before you issue a warning. He answered with a ????. I reminded him that ponds would freeze more quickly around the edges and that an important factor he wasn't considering was the depth/volume of water of the pond and that ponds don't freeze uniformly. I also said that the wind force blowing waves on an icy edge would freeze that water faster than if the water were not being blown by the 20 mph wind at about 10 degrees. His response: "wind chill has nothing to do with water freezing".

 

Further he said that it would be below freezing for fewer than 48 hours (a miscalculation), he didn't bring pond depth/size into account, nor the five degree temp nor the 20 mph wind. Today he said, (initiating the conversation again) "Good thing the ponds didn't freeze!" Geez - they froze out this way!

 

Our swimming pool froze over. I am sure the ice is not deep but it is solid on top of the water.

 

What I don't get is this: Why would he be resistant about issuing regular warnings about not walking on frozen ponds? All of the competitor stations did it. The National Weather Service issued a warning about ponds in the Metro Atlanta area. All that I can guess is that he doesn't want someone else telling him how to do his job and that there's no computer model to tell him how to respond when someone makes a suggestion.

 

So -- did ponds freeze out your way? Does anybody have any experience in talking to this guy? Why do you think he, of all of the head weatherpeople, didn't mention ponds freezing?

 

Our pool froze over. Solid sheet of ice on top of the water.

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Maybe they should read this post about the 2 missing boys from Dawson County on the Fox 5 website - part of Lake Lanier is frozen...

 

"A thick sheet of ice has hindered search efforts around the boat docks where the boys are believed to have cast their lines sometime during the early morning hours of Jan. 2.

 

Earlier this week, the Department of Natural Resources used a search team and lowered cameras through holes in the ice as a cadaver dog scoured the nearby banks for any sign of 20-year-olds now missing for nearly a week."

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Why do you need to be reminded not to try to walk on a frozen pond?

 

It's mostly for parents to remind their kids. It's usually kids who fall through the ice. I guess you'll want to know why that happens, too! In children, the part of the brain used for connecting actions with consequences and other decision-making skills is not fully developed. It has been three years since the last REAL cold snap and in 2010 a couple of kids in Gwinnett County drowned from falling through the ice. That's why parents have to keep reminding kids and why it's a good idea as a public service for weather personnel to remind parents to discuss with kids the hazard of frozen ponds.

 

Now, it's your turn. Why do YOU need for the obvious to be explained to you? The brains of kids aren't fully developed. What's your excuse?

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It's mostly for parents to remind their kids. It's usually kids who fall through the ice. I guess you'll want to know why that happens, too! In children, the part of the brain used for connecting actions with consequences and other decision-making skills is not fully developed. It has been three years since the last REAL cold snap and in 2010 a couple of kids in Gwinnett County drowned from falling through the ice. That's why parents have to keep reminding kids and why it's a good idea as a public service for weather personnel to remind parents to discuss with kids the hazard of frozen ponds.

 

Now, it's your turn. Why do YOU need for the obvious to be explained to you? The brains of kids aren't fully developed. What's your excuse?

 

I am a parent, and I would know to tell my kids not to do it without needing a weatherman to remind me. And good to see that you would rather insult someone then have a discussion.

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1389303720[/url]' post='3873944']

Know-it-alls are so annoying. I'm so glad there are none on pcom. This changes my view about Glenn Burns but I really haven't been paying much attention to him lately anyway.

 

That's the funniest thing I've read all day.

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"Wind Chill" is a description of the effect of wind on the bare skin. It's true that W/C has nothing to do with water freezing, since it's a perception instrument. WIND does have an effect on water freezing, since wave action on an icy shore (at five degrees) freezes water more quickly around the edge. Each wave adds ice to the existing edge, thickening the ice somewhat, and extending the ice toward the middle.

 

What's strange is that Mr. Burn's pond, according to him, didn't have a "spec" (sic) of ice. A pond that is only a few feet deep would freeze faster than one that is deep, but all ponds have a shallow edge. If they don't, then they're a real drowning hazard to people and pets!

While on one hand, it's not a real big deal -- It was strange for everybody else to say that pond-freeze was a problem, but not Mr. Burns, who said that his pond had absolutely no ice at all and no other ponds had ice on them!

 

Thank you for clarifying that wind DOES have an effect on freezing water. I've got a host of hydraulic calc books that even have an equation for this, based on temp, atmospheric pressure and velocity. Likewise, even the animals in the water (fish, turtles, etc.) also have a major effect on freezing. Where aquatic animals gather on spots, those spots are the LAST to freeze....same as leaving your faucet dripping. Also see feelips comment about topography and its effect on wind channels.

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I am a parent, and I would know to tell my kids not to do it without needing a weatherman to remind me. And good to see that you would rather insult someone then have a discussion.

 

You asked me why I would need to be reminded not to walk on a frozen pond. That was pretty insulting, don't you think? I don't need to be reminded, but I consider other people - that their circumstances might not be identical to mine. It used to be around here that every couple of years at least one child in the metro Atlanta area would drown from falling through the ice. For some reason - it could be ignorance of pond ice - it happens regularly.

 

So -- let me ask you. Do you think a reminder would have possibly been beneficial? What could it possibly hurt to remind parents to keep their KIDS AND PETS off the ice? There's no telling how many household pets die this way, since that information wouldn't make the papers. I understand that YOU don't need reminding, but why you think that your knowledge-base is mirrored in all other citizens is irrational.

 

 

Here's a link to a single one of those human tragedies that happened three years ago, tomorrow.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/139486/0/More%20problems%20with%20Affordable%20Health%20Care%20website

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The amount of time it takes a body of water to freeze is dependent on the thermal capacity of the water. A larger body of water has a higher thermal capacity than a smaller one. The amount of heat energy that is lost depends on the surface area, a larger surface loses heat faster than a smaller one.

 

For example, a cup of boiling water will freeze faster than a kiddie pool full of water at 35 degrees.

 

That explains why the waterfall was able to freeze, a small stream of water has a lower thermal capacity than a large stream. When it's falling over the edge of the waterfall, it has a greater surface area than it does when it is flowing in the cut before the waterfall. This causes it lose it's heat energy much faster, allowing it to freeze and creating the ice fall.

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You asked me why I would need to be reminded not to walk on a frozen pond. That was pretty insulting, don't you think? I don't need to be reminded, but I consider other people - that their circumstances might not be identical to mine. It used to be around here that every couple of years at least one child in the metro Atlanta area would drown from falling through the ice. For some reason - it could be ignorance of pond ice - it happens regularly.

 

So -- let me ask you. Do you think a reminder would have possibly been beneficial? What could it possibly hurt to remind parents to keep their KIDS AND PETS off the ice? There's no telling how many household pets die this way, since that information wouldn't make the papers. I understand that YOU don't need reminding, but why you think that your knowledge-base is mirrored in all other citizens is irrational.

 

 

Here's a link to a single one of those human tragedies that happened three years ago, tomorrow.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/139486/0/More%20problems%20with%20Affordable%20Health%20Care%20website

 

I think it's silly to chastise a weatherman for not warning the public about walking on thin ice. If he does it that's great, but if he doesn't then who gives a flip? He's a weatherman, it is not his duty to protect the ill informed.

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