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Girl on life support

  

41 members have voted

  1. 1. Should she be taken off life support

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    • No
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I quote them often to my chronic condition support groups.

 

 

 

I am not sure on it but I believe its in how you approach a parent and presenting it in a manner that a grieving parent may understand....let it be in their hands and not the doctors. Someone in the family might talk to them and come to terms. Putting the parents in a defensive state would end just like it is now. They feel they are protecting their child against whom they blame for putting her there. Remember the 5 stages of death. Not sure exactly how it goes but is it blame, why, anger, denial, then acceptance. I know bargaining is in there somewhere.

 

 

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I am not sure on it but I believe its in how you approach a parent and presenting it in a manner that a grieving parent may understand....let it be in their hands and not the doctors. Someone in the family might talk to them and come to terms. Putting the parents in a defensive state would end just like it is now. They feel they are protecting their child against whom they blame for putting her there. Remember the 5 stages of death. Not sure exactly how it goes but is it blame, why, anger, denial, then acceptance. I know bargaining is in there somewhere.

 

 

 

I think you might be referring to the five stages of grief.

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They also apply to any life changing situation such as chronic illness or a permanent disability. Some people refer to them as the five stages of acceptance of an illness.

 

I studied this in school and did a report on Elizabeth Kubler-Ross' book. It's been years since I read it and it freaked my mom out when I did. It really helped me understand what I was going through after having lost my dad, a brother and a close cousin in the span of six months.

 

I also reviewed them when I was diagnosed with hemochromatosis and again when I was diagnosed with multiple joint arthritis.

 

The only real difference between the grief stages and the illness stages is that with illness you have fear instead of bargaining. Though many people have bargaining as well with illness.

 

http://fibrofighter.tripod.com/17stages.htm

I think you might be referring to the five stages of grief.

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They also apply to any life changing situation such as chronic illness or a permanent disability. Some people refer to them as the five stages of acceptance of an illness.

 

I studied this in school and did a report on Elizabeth Kubler-Ross' book. It's been years since I read it and it freaked my mom out when I did. It really helped me understand what I was going through after having lost my dad, a brother and a close cousin in the span of six months.

 

I also reviewed them when I was diagnosed with hemochromatosis and again when I was diagnosed with multiple joint arthritis.

 

The only real difference between the grief stages and the illness stages is that with illness you have fear instead of bargaining. Though many people have bargaining as well with illness.

 

http://fibrofighter.tripod.com/17stages.htm

I went through those 5 stages with my sons autism diagnosis. Acceptance is a beautiful thing, and I'm glad I arrived there because I realize some people never do.

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My husband, who was diagnosed in 2009 with spinal stenosis and then told in 2011 that it very likely will progress to him being wheelchair bound, is still trying to accept his diagnosis. At least he has gotten through the other stages and is about to get to acceptance. My mom had a similar diagnosis and never accepted it. She really never made it past anger.

 

Until you accept it, whether it is a life-changing diagnosis or the loss of a loved one, you can't move on. And you're absolutely correct. It is a beautiful thing once you get to acceptance. It does NOT mean defeat and giving up. Quite the contrary.

I went through those 5 stages with my sons autism diagnosis. Acceptance is a beautiful thing, and I'm glad I arrived there because I realize some people never do.

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My link

 

OAKLAND, Calif. — Court hearings on Friday paved the way for the family of Jahi McMath to move her out of Children’s Hospital and Research Center Oakland without any obstacles. Jahi’s family celebrated the small victory in their fight to keep her alive.

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OAKLAND, Calif. — Court hearings on Friday paved the way for the family of Jahi McMath to move her out of Children’s Hospital and Research Center Oakland without any obstacles. Jahi’s family celebrated the small victory in their fight to keep her alive.

 

That's the point... "she" is no longer alive, her body is all that is still "alive". That is defined as brain dead. I would be very happy for the family if she was only in a coma and came back but that is not the case here.

 

From the article there is a Death Certificate issued from the coroner. This move is being viewed as a release of her body, which is SOP after death. The body is then usualy released to a funeral home or family for transport to a location of their choosing. So in this case they are sending it to a facility that can maintain life support function. That is truly weird.

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source

 

 

 

 

Before she is transported, the coroner must be involved.

 

My question is, who's paying the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of dollars to transport and keep this brain dead child alive with artificial means?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

According to Christopher Dolan, the family attorney for Jahi McMath, the process to move Jahi will involve several steps. He said there must be communication between Children’s Hospital and the receiving facility, the family must give the receiving facility paperwork of Jahi’s health care status and she must be transported in an ambulance that can switch her to a portable ventilator.

 

Dolan also said Alameda County Coroner’s Office will be involved.

 

“The hospital will give Jahi to the coroner,” Dolan said. "The coroner will then, if we fill out certain paperwork, give Jahi to us. Then we are free to transport Jahi.”

 

The family must assume all responsibility for Jahi once they take her out of Children’s Hospital.

 

Winkfield disagrees with the Alameda County Coroner’s Office issuing a death certificate on Friday. Winkfield claimed the certificate was not immediately produced, but she requested one because it was a requirement by Children’s Hospital in order to allow for Jahi’s release.

 

Children’s Hospital Attorney Douglas Straus said the certificate reflects reality.

 

“It’s one more piece of evidence that confirms Jahi McMath is deceased,” Straus said.

 

Jahi has been declared brain dead by three doctors following routine tonsil surgery in early December.

 

Dolan said moving Jahi will be a delicate operation because "she's fragile and she's at risk of her heart stopping."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I feel for this family. They are holding on to some hope their daughter will survive.

 

I have never been put into the situation of having to decide to "unplug" a loved one and I hope I never am in that situation. I have handled the final arrangements for both patents and a child and in those cases there was no question they were gone.

 

I will continue to pray for this family.

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Update:

 

The body of 13-year-old Jahi McMath left brain dead after a tonsil operation was released to her mother last night.

Jahi left Oakland's Children’s Hospital & Research Center about 7.50pm in a critical care ambulance to the home of her mom, Latasha Winkfield.

 

*snip*

 

 

While it is not clear where the girl will be moved to, a New York facility run by a woman whose father suffered severe brain trauma in 2007 has offered its services.

New Beginnings Community Center founder Allyson Scerri said the outpatient rehabilitation facility has been named as a potential care center for Jahi.

'We are aware of Jahi McMath's dire situation, and we are willing to open our outpatient facility to provide 24-hour care as an inpatient, long-term facility for Jahi with the required and appropriate medical staff that she depends upon,' Scerri said in a letter included in court documents last week.

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2534435/Body-brain-dead-Jahi-McMath-13-released-New-York-clinic-run-woman-father-suffered-brain-injury.html#ixzz2peWSuoYw

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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She is dead, no question about it. Every doctor involved has agreed 100% and now the Coroner's Office issued a death certificate. I do not see how legally they can send the corpse to another facility and subject it to continued medical procedures.

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She is dead, no question about it. Every doctor involved has agreed 100% and now the Coroner's Office issued a death certificate. I do not see how legally they can send the corpse to another facility and subject it to continued medical procedures.

 

nevermind, not worth it

 

 

 

Edited by Dana
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Update:

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz2peWSuoYw

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

Thanks for the update Blondie.

 

This story is beyond sad and heartbreaking. I can not imagine having to go through this with my child. :cray:

 

 

 

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Thanks for the update Blondie.

 

This story is beyond sad and heartbreaking. I can not imagine having to go through this with my child. :cray:

 

agreed.

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She is dead, no question about it. Every doctor involved has agreed 100% and now the Coroner's Office issued a death certificate. I do not see how legally they can send the corpse to another facility and subject it to continued medical procedures.

 

I was thinking the same thing. We had to make the heart breaking decision to do this to my dad. He wasn't responsive and we had to do what was best for him and let him go. It just seems unethical to be able to have a ventilator put on a deceased body. Why waste the supplies & personal when there might be someone who is not brain dead and could use the help.

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This may come across as cruel to some, but this is as close to human euthanasia as we can get. This little girl has been declared brain dead and is deceased, this is the opportunity to offer her the dignity she deserves to let her body pass on in peace. My heart breaks for this family, and I pray that I or someone I love never have to face a situation like this one.

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This whole case is heart breaking, as a parent I can see their hurt, however... keeping her on the machines, is not the daughter they had.....

 

 

my parents had living wills, I have a living will, I would not won't my boys to have to make that decision for me. so I have taken care of it for them.

 

I know my boys wishes, and my husband's wishes. This little girl and her parents had no idea that her life would end this soon and in such a controversy way.

 

My prayers are with the parents, that they can find a way to let their daughter go in peace.

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This is heart breaking, and I was in the position 2 years ago when the doctors wanted me to "unplug" my 42 year old son 3 days after surgery because of a traumatic brain injury. Needless to say, my son is doing well (though he is not walking yet), he is 100%+ better than the doctors predicted he would EVER be. After what I went through with the doctors insisting time and time again that we should let him go, I immediately took "donor" off my license. We truly believe that was the ONLY reason they kept on us about "unplugging" him. EVEN THOUGH I told them he would NOT be a donor from the 3rd day on, that did not stop them. My heart goes out to this family because from all the stories I have read, this little girl is truly gone, and they cannot let go. I believe they will in short time though -- if she doesn't die first because of starvation. God be with them and bless them all. Only God has that right to take our babies, and I think that is why they are waiting. :wub:

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This is heart breaking, and I was in the position 2 years ago when the doctors wanted me to "unplug" my 42 year old son 3 days after surgery because of a traumatic brain injury. Needless to say, my son is doing well (though he is not walking yet), he is 100%+ better than the doctors predicted he would EVER be. After what I went through with the doctors insisting time and time again that we should let him go, I immediately took "donor" off my license. We truly believe that was the ONLY reason they kept on us about "unplugging" him. EVEN THOUGH I told them he would NOT be a donor from the 3rd day on, that did not stop them. My heart goes out to this family because from all the stories I have read, this little girl is truly gone, and they cannot let go. I believe they will in short time though -- if she doesn't die first because of starvation. God be with them and bless them all. Only God has that right to take our babies, and I think that is why they are waiting. :wub:

 

Thank God in heaven that your son is doing so much better! :wub:

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Remember this story??

 

 


The family of a 13-year-old Oakland girl who was declared 'brain-dead' more than three months ago following complications after a routine tonsil surgery say the girl is showing signs of life now that she's been moved from the hospital that released her body to the coroner's office in early January.

Additionally, the family has slammed a state report that determined that the Children's Hospital Oakland - with which the family of Jahi McMath fought in court over whether to take the girl off of life support - complied with medical regulatory standards in its handling of Jahi's case.

Family members now say that while Jahi remains unconscious, she looks healthy and has been moving her head and legs on a regular basis.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581522/Family-brain-dead-Jahi-McMath-say-teen-showing-signs-life-blast-states-report-hospitals-handling-case-BS.html#ixzz2w9LcLJD5
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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I am not downplaying the heartbreak of this story, or the ones like it, but it did remind me of something that happened in my family a few years ago.

 

I have major issues with my brother, he is a good guy, but events over the years have caused me to only have contact when it is a family thing and then just be polite.

After his last divorce my mother called me and told me that my brother was making changes to his legal papers and that he wanted to make me the person who decides when it is time to pull the plug.

He had my mother call me first and run it by me, I was then supposed to call him.

I did call him and said (in a flat voice) that I understood he wanted me to be the one in charge of his medical stuff if he was unable to make those decisions.

He said that was correct.

In the same flat voice, I asked if he really thought that was a good idea.

His answer, "Well....I thought so....I could have been wrong."

I said I would do it and that was that...except I called my mother back.

I told her what happened and then said, "I can see it now. Well doctor, you've done all you could, no one can blame you. I guess the only thing we can do now is pull the plug, no sense in waiting around, go ahead and do it."

(Doctor) "But Mr. Stradial, I said he was sleeping, not in a coma."

"No sense in waiting for the worse doc, go ahead and put him out his misery and hurry. I have a 2 o'clock tee time."

My mother said that was not very nice, but she did say it was funny.

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I am not downplaying the heartbreak of this story, or the ones like it, but it did remind me of something that happened in my family a few years ago.

 

I have major issues with my brother, he is a good guy, but events over the years have caused me to only have contact when it is a family thing and then just be polite.

After his last divorce my mother called me and told me that my brother was making changes to his legal papers and that he wanted to make me the person who decides when it is time to pull the plug.

He had my mother call me first and run it by me, I was then supposed to call him.

I did call him and said (in a flat voice) that I understood he wanted me to be the one in charge of his medical stuff if he was unable to make those decisions.

He said that was correct.

In the same flat voice, I asked if he really thought that was a good idea.

His answer, "Well....I thought so....I could have been wrong."

I said I would do it and that was that...except I called my mother back.

I told her what happened and then said, "I can see it now. Well doctor, you've done all you could, no one can blame you. I guess the only thing we can do now is pull the plug, no sense in waiting around, go ahead and do it."

(Doctor) "But Mr. Stradial, I said he was sleeping, not in a coma."

"No sense in waiting for the worse doc, go ahead and put him out his misery and hurry. I have a 2 o'clock tee time."

My mother said that was not very nice, but she did say it was funny.

I'm sure that there is at least one or two people who don't want me responsible for making that decision for them.

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My question is, who's paying this multi million dollar bill to keep her artificially alive with absolutely no hope of recovery?

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My question is, who's paying this multi million dollar bill to keep her artificially alive with absolutely no hope of recovery?

It seems like I heard that since the hospital released her to the coroners office and not the family because she is actually 'dead', that ins stops paying because she's no longer an 'alive' person. So to answer your question, I have no idea.

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I can't imagine being in that position. And unless you are actually in the situation it is easy to say take her off life support. Her parents are hoping that she will make a miraculous recovery but odds are it will not happen. It's not to say that it can't happen. It is very expensive to keep a child on life support and if it were my child I would want to keep her on. No one wants to face the reality that ending life support brings. Especially if they haven't accepted that she is brain dead. I have lost a child and it is something very hard to deal with. There is one last grasp of hope when her body is being kept alive even though there is no brain activity. Pulling the plug to me is a lot harder than it happening like it did to me. I had no choice, there was no saving her, it was simply too late. I begged them to continue cpr but eventually they had to call it. I am thankful they tried as hard as they did as I have no doubts they did everything they could.

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I'm sure that there is at least one or two people who don't want me responsible for making that decision for them.

I certainly would not want to have that one on me. No, wait a sec I already do!! There is a lot of discord in my husbands family. My MIL requested me handle her affairs and to decide when it was time to "pull the plug" Onl;y because she was afraid he would say "yeah go ahead and kill her and get it over with" Which he would never do. She was in a coma some years back and he wouldnt allow them to do it even though Grady insisted. Turns out she was not brain dead, she was so doped up on morphine she couldnt function. If someone is BD why do they need morphine anyways? So here is what will happen when the time comes....I will be at the center of fighting family memebers being pulled by each arm on what to do, wait or pull it. Im screwed either way because I will becomes one sides enemy either way. She outlined in her advanced directive that if she is in a persistent state pull the plug, no cpr, no intubation. If her health fails I know what her wishes are and disagreeing family needs to respect that.

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I can't imagine being in that position. And unless you are actually in the situation it is easy to say take her off life support. Her parents are hoping that she will make a miraculous recovery but odds are it will not happen. It's not to say that it can't happen. It is very expensive to keep a child on life support and if it were my child I would want to keep her on. No one wants to face the reality that ending life support brings. Especially if they haven't accepted that she is brain dead. I have lost a child and it is something very hard to deal with. There is one last grasp of hope when her body is being kept alive even though there is no brain activity. Pulling the plug to me is a lot harder than it happening like it did to me. I had no choice, there was no saving her, it was simply too late. I begged them to continue cpr but eventually they had to call it. I am thankful they tried as hard as they did as I have no doubts they did everything they could.

I'm so sorry for your loss jdoxakis01. Losing a child has to be one of the hardest things to deal with and I am truly sorry you had to go thru this. I pray for your strength and peace.

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