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No blackboards?

No erasers to make the problem kids clean?

I think we have found the problem with the schools.

 

Just joking.

 

I have always felt that the problem with our schools is mainly in the bureaucracy, not so much at the school level.

In my day, there were good teachers who cared and there were not so good teachers who didn't care as much. Same as today.

One thing was different though in my day, the parents were behind the teachers more than today.

Of course in my day, the teachers carried paddles and the parents carried belts and switches.

 

(my mother still carries a switch, but I think I can take her now, I know I will be able to next year, when she turns 80)

(well, I think I will be able to)

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It really ticks me off that the stuff that you buy for your own child will be taken from them and given to others. You should be able to buy stuff for your kid and then buy 'generic' stuff (voluntari

First get off your high horse. You don't know our children, and you need to back off the eff off. Your mother chose her profession, she has a choice to do exactly what every other teacher can do. Se

My opinion is that if the teacher needs it to help teach my princess, I will make sure she gets it. But, I don't understand why parents feel like they shouldn't be asked to provide their little angel

This is where private schools differ greatly from public schools. When you enroll in a private school and go through the interview process, it is made very clear that parents are to be active members of the school. If you aren't, youmwont be there very long. In addition to tuition, we are required buy books, supplies, uniforms, and all sorts of other stuff, and we are all expected to be active and supportive of the school. Now I would personally love it if there were a school voucher system that would allow me to move my tax dollars from Paulding to my child's school in Cobb, but that's not the way it works so there is no sense groaning and complaining about it.

 

In return, we see that the staff and parents in the school work together and we don't have this silly bickering about supplies. Teachers do still buy things for the class, but that is their choice. When they need things like wipes, paper towels and Kleenex, they simply ask for donations from the parents and we all provide it without worrying about which child will actually get to use it.

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One thing was different though in my day, the parents were behind the teachers more than today.

Of course in my day, the teachers carried paddles and the parents carried belts and switches.

 

(my mother still carries a switch, but I think I can take her now, I know I will be able to next year, when she turns 80)

(well, I think I will be able to)

 

 

I'm gonna tell Mama Stradial that you said that. You're gonna be in big trouble!!! :p

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I swear this happens every year. People moan, bitch and complain just to have something to do I guess. Talk about taking petty stuff and blowing it out of proportion, this is a prime example. It's school supplies, nothing more. If that $25 is your biggest problem then consider yourself lucky.

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I swear this happens every year. People moan, bitch and complain just to have something to do I guess. Talk about taking petty stuff and blowing it out of proportion, this is a prime example. It's school supplies, nothing more. If that $25 is your biggest problem then consider yourself lucky.

 

Not to disagree, because I don't really overall, but $25 ain't what it costs.

Heck, my kid had to have a calculator that cost like $150.

Not sure what that calculator did for $150, but I know it wasn't the dishes.

 

I ain't scared of my mama.

(she's way over there in Smyrna)

:)

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1374886191[/url]' post='3823098']

It's not a lack of support for teachers, it's a lack of support for the parents who won't step up, and then it leads the teacher to be the one begging for supplies.

 

The list that is posted states a backpack, and lunch box. Why would I provide someone else's kid those two items? Is Cobb Co. going to start asking for all parents to start providing school clothes as well?

 

A couple of thoughts here.

I have heard parents say, about things like booster clubs, PTA type things "I don't want to deal with the drama." I totally understand that. Been there done that.

I have also let teachers know I will help with the class, or whatever just to get blown off. So either you want my help,or you don't.

I also get the feeling that once DS gets into high school it will basically "drop him off, and we'll call you if we want to tell you anything." Basically "don't call us, we'll call you." Boy are they in for a surprise.

 

For all you teachers, I do have a question when do you decide to let a parent know that their kid is failing a subject? When do you let the parent know that the kid is causing problems?

For my kid I want to know that he is struggling when his grade drops below a "B," I want to know the first time he gets into trouble, not the third time. So, while your bemoaning parents that don't care, how bout giving props to those of us that do? There are more of us that give a damn then ones that don't.

 

I'm sorry, you're right....I made a generalization about a handful of posts....the majority Of the parents I've encountered over the last 10 years resend to supply requests, conference notices, etc. They were involved, though some needed a reminder notice or two ;)

The help that TEACHERS need beyond elem school is with things parents can't help with....like grading the 120 projects that got turned In the Friday before Thanksgiving break or typing up an assignment based on an idea in my head. Parent involvement in the upper grades also mortified some students so the parent is less likely to come to school. Oh, and there are the parent that go back to work once the kids are all in school....

PERSONALLY, it's damn near impossible for me to help in my kid's class.....so we do after hours stuff like spirit nights. I also drop stuff in the bookbag regularly.

 

 

As for failing subjects----kids get some sort of grade report every 4.5 weeks. If a kid has an A and 4 weeks later an F, I would be in that teachers room for a conference. That's a quick drop. Grades are also online and it they aren't kept current, notify the administration.

Behavior is very subjective. What I feel is minor, might not be minor to some parents. I taught a BD class at one point....I've got superior tolerance and can typically redirect a student without really thinking about it. On the flip side, there are the uber sensitive teachers that call because a kid sneezed too loud (true story).

Kudos for parents that do what they need to do is like a participation trophy.

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Not to disagree, because I don't really overall, but $25 ain't what it costs.

Heck, my kid had to have a calculator that cost like $150.

Not sure what that calculator did for $150, but I know it wasn't the dishes.

 

I ain't scared of my mama.

(she's way over there in Smyrna)

:)

 

$150?? Good grief. If it had been my kid, I'd told him to take off his socks and uses his toes. :lol:

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I guess that's too broad. MANY parents won't accept responsibility for their child until THEY are held responsible (and then some won't accept that responsibility).

I can't believe that I am allowing myself to get sucked into this but ...

 

No parent? Really? Surely you just worded that poorly, right?

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Not to disagree, because I don't really overall, but $25 ain't what it costs.

Heck, my kid had to have a calculator that cost like $150.

Not sure what that calculator did for $150, but I know it wasn't the dishes.

 

I ain't scared of my mama.

(she's way over there in Smyrna)

:)

 

 

:lol:

I'll bet she's precious! :wub:

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I swear this happens every year. People moan, bitch and complain just to have something to do I guess. Talk about taking petty stuff and blowing it out of proportion, this is a prime example. It's school supplies, nothing more. If that $25 is your biggest problem then consider yourself lucky.

 

I can get away with $25 for now. But, that's not the point. While I may whine, gripe, I will buy extra, and I will donate it to someone who is in need. Not because I HAVE to, but because I WANT to.

This seems to be an issue that has come up in the last 10yrs. I really don't recall this being an issue with my older two. Now, both of them are older one started school in the mid 80's, and the other in the late 80's. IDK. I just feel like when a suggested supply list is released, it should be a request for the extras, not a "required" list.

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Why would this be different than charging a parking fee that is collected at a high school? Call it a drop off fee.

And yes, it is fair because if these parents are tying up traffic and requiring another lane to be added to the street, those are the people who should be paying for it, not the overburdened tax payers of the county many of whom may not EVER drive on that street. Let the lazy parent as well as the one who has good reason pay for the ability to drop off their child. The bus is provided to get the child from home to school and back.

But if you want to charge parents for dropping off their kids instead of putting them on the bus, how do you do that? To weed out the lazy parent, every parent that drops off a kid would have to be questioned by some poor school official and they would have the burden of determining if it was a for a valid reason. Then you'd have to keep a pages and pages long list that would have to be handed out to whomever was on car rider duty at the school each morning.

 

Or do you just charge everybody and make the responsible parents pay as well as the lazy, "I didn't want to get up" parents because it's too much of a hassle to keep up with? Is that fair?

 

 

Exactly!

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I'm sorry, you're right....I made a generalization about a handful of posts....the majority Of the parents I've encountered over the last 10 years resend to supply requests, conference notices, etc. They were involved, though some needed a reminder notice or two ;)

The help that TEACHERS need beyond elem school is with things parents can't help with....like grading the 120 projects that got turned In the Friday before Thanksgiving break or typing up an assignment based on an idea in my head. Parent involvement in the upper grades also mortified some students so the parent is less likely to come to school. Oh, and there are the parent that go back to work once the kids are all in school....

PERSONALLY, it's damn near impossible for me to help in my kid's class.....so we do after hours stuff like spirit nights. I also drop stuff in the bookbag regularly.

 

 

As for failing subjects----kids get some sort of grade report every 4.5 weeks. If a kid has an A and 4 weeks later an F, I would be in that teachers room for a conference. That's a quick drop. Grades are also online and it they aren't kept current, notify the administration.

Behavior is very subjective. What I feel is minor, might not be minor to some parents. I taught a BD class at one point....I've got superior tolerance and can typically redirect a student without really thinking about it. On the flip side, there are the uber sensitive teachers that call because a kid sneezed too loud (true story).

Kudos for parents that do what they need to do is like a participation trophy.

 

No, participation trophy needed. Just an acknowledgement that not all parents don't care.

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I for one never had a problem providing whatever my child needed for their education and gave more than my fair share to the school (in time and in money). It's the fact that it is MANDATED that bothers me. Suggest it and I'm all over supplying it and more.

 

Smacks of something I was taught in school was a very bad thing.

OMG--I cannot get over the selfishness of some of you parents (or grandparents). It is SCHOOL. It is your child's EDUCATION. So what if you buy some extra supplies. I always bought extra when my kids were in school and I am doing the same with my grandkids. It's not a big deal. Buy it all at the beginning of the year when notebook paper and pencils at 50 cents.

 

No wonder some folks sit and brag about everything else they have and can do--me and other folks are supplying their kids (and grandkids)their school supplies (and probably a whole lot more). And they say it is the younger generation that has the gimme gimme attitude--I think not.

 

And yes, I had 2 parents that worked in the school system. Neither were teachers-one was a parapro. But my dad was with Cobb County for almost 30 years and we went thru many budget sessions with him and you really learn alot.

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I for one never had a problem providing whatever my child needed for their education and gave more than my fair share to the school (in time and in money). It's the fact that it is MANDATED that bothers me. Suggest it and I'm all over supplying it and more.

 

Smacks of something I was taught in school was a very bad thing.

 

 

^^ This

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Assuming we're still discussing the original post, keep two things in mind:

 

1.) This is from a Cobb County school

2.) This is a list of items "apparently" required

 

And some other thoughts ... the backpack, 9x12 folder, and lunch box are all together one one line for a reason. Those are things the child needs but will be going back and forth each day with the child. It is the rest of the list, each item on its own line, that constitutes the class supplies for common use. As for brand specific names ... for some of them it is likely just to clarify the type (Clorox to differentiate from baby wipes, Zip-Lock to differentiate from fold over sandwich bags or produce bags or whatever other unfortunate form of plastic bag some parent might send in) and for others it may be because after years of experience the teachers know which ones actually last and are worth spending any money on (Crayola and Expo might actually still work in a month and wash out as advertised). Additionally there is the test answer reader factor for the pencils ... some pencils, even if they say #2, do not read well in the machines.

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Assuming we're still discussing the original post, keep two things in mind:

 

1.) This is from a Cobb County school

2.) This is a list of items "apparently" required

 

And some other thoughts ... the backpack, 9x12 folder, and lunch box are all together one one line for a reason. Those are things the child needs but will be going back and forth each day with the child. It is the rest of the list, each item on its own line, that constitutes the class supplies for common use. As for brand specific names ... for some of them it is likely just to clarify the type (Clorox to differentiate from baby wipes, Zip-Lock to differentiate from fold over sandwich bags or produce bags or whatever other unfortunate form of plastic bag some parent might send in) and for others it may be because after years of experience the teachers know which ones actually last and are worth spending any money on (Crayola and Expo might actually still work in a month and wash out as advertised). Additionally there is the test answer reader factor for the pencils ... some pencils, even if they say #2, do not read well in the machines.

 

Don't be bringing logic into this, can't you see we are on a rant. (or soapbox or whatever)

:)

 

(tongue firmly in cheek)

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Don't be bringing logic into this, can't you see we are on a rant. (or soapbox or whatever)

:)

 

(tongue firmly in cheek)

 

Yeah. We're busy countin' our toes, fightin' communism and tattle-tailing on stradial to his mother.

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I'm just anxious to get on to really important issues like which night the kids are trick-or-treating this year.

 

I went last night.

I was made up as a husband who's wife said; "if you want something to eat, get it yourself".

Last night was not a good night, I got one stale O'Henry bar, two "get the **** outta here, before something bad happens to you!" and one "what are you willing to do for it?".

(BTW "Cut the grass" is not the answer he is looking for)

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1374892864[/url]' post='3823130']

And those are valid reasons for taking your child to school. I am referring to the parents who don't have valid reasons other than they want to sleep late.

 

 

I take my kids because I enjoy those ten minutes extra each day. I will take every extra second I can get! I am glad there are parents who take their kids for "no valid reason" as it is there is sometimes standing room only on some buses, I can only imagine is "valid reasons" was a requirement how horrible conditions on a bus would be...

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Oh, yeah your the one having trouble getting info on your biological father. Not a good reason (seeing as there is such a thing as open adoption) to not adopt.

 

Congratulations to your mom.

 

C, D: Let the inquisition begin. Teachers need to stand up, and state your kid is a brat. And, I will not tolerate misbehavior in my classroom.

 

Well until parents are made to be responsible, It will still be a problem. But, it does not nagate that a teacher sets up the behavior that is expected, and stands behind it.

 

If you knew the amount of crap that I have had to go through to get the little amount of information I do have...You would understand why I don't want another child to ever go through it. (Like I said another topic)

 

My mother does not tolerate misbehavior in her classroom. Again, this is not about the student's misbehavior which she does have control over, it is the parents.

 

It needs to come down from the top saying your child will be left out if you do not provide materials. There isn't a damn thing teachers can do if a parent chooses not to provide. They can send letters, emails, phone calls, have a meeting...but if the parent doesn't care none of that is going to work and no one can physically make the parent provide. Not even the principal. It needs to come down from the top and make it clear to the parents that if they do not provide materials for their child, their child will not participate.

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I was room mom last yr for my youngest daughters class and its sad at how many parents participate. I may not be able to supply the class with things but I do spend a lot of time in the class. If I have extra paper, crayons or pencils I try to take that stuff in but don't always have it.

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I just went on the school website and noted the supply list. I only bought what was on that list, but there was a "wish list" on the school's supply list. There was just a few items that were needed, so, I bought a few of the items since they were so minor, e.g., tissues, hand sanitizer. My granddaughter has always come home with the school supplies that I bought her, minus tissues, and hand sanitizer. I think I spent twenty dollars on everything.

That's a Paulding school, i don't agree with the Cobb list, buying for every student. If there is not enough supplies for the kids, then I believe the school should supply the needed tools for the children. I would think the Board of Education should buy in bulk and save money to supply the needed materials.

Then again, just think of the poor kid's who come to class without supplies. That would be so humiliating for the student. That would have to leave a deep mark on the child's psyche. I say it's a catch twenty two.

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A friend of mine who lives in Cobb County posted a list of supplies that her child's public kindergarten is requiring parents to buy. Granted I'm not a parent, but to me this seems pretty ridiculous. And apparently this is required for the parents, not just a pretty-please donations list. Add all this stuff up, especially if brand names are required, and it looks like it can really add up. Notice the sentence near the end of this (I cropped off the specific school's name."

 

kindertwo.jpg

 

"Please do not label individual items with your child's name."

 

 

Excuse me? So a parent has to buy all this stuff with no guarantee that it will be used for their child only? What about the backpack and lunch box? Do you get that back at the end of the year?

 

My friend really can't afford all of this crap, she has 2 kids and she got laid off when I did. What happens if a parent genuinely can't afford all of this stuff? Do these schools supply anything besides the desk? Pre-sharpened pencils? Did they ban pencil sharpeners in school now or something?

 

Sorry, I'm just floored. Gawd, I'm glad my reproductive system was defective and I could only have Cats. I'm too much of a cheapskate to have human kids. :blink:

I'm sorry, I'm a parent and that list is ridiculous! I have no problem donating extras for others to use and I ALWAYS do, but 'pre-sharpened' pencils? WTH? Are they going to toss them when the tips a dull and go on to a new pencil? No, no not happening.

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First get off your high horse. You don't know our children, and you need to back off the eff off.

Your mother chose her profession, she has a choice to do exactly what every other teacher can do. Send home a if we don't get enough ________________ then we can't do _______________. How many notes are sent home from the 5th grade teachers that if they don't collect X then they can't go on the end of the year field trip.

 

Personally I think once the kids get past elementary school the the teacher should start charging the kid for the supplies. I also think that when the kid is in elementary school that the parents who didn't send in supplies get charged for them, or they can't get the last report card. But, that is my personal responsibility personality. I agree that there may be a FEW that can't afford supplies, but I don't think that there are as many as the schools would have you think.

 

Oh, and aren't you the professional student?

+100. Thank you!

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There is just not enough time or enough words to respond to all the ignorance spread throughout this thread.

 

To the OP: I think that this list is more of a wishlist. It says required to get the best response. I also don't think the backpack and lunch are meant to be shared. As far as the name brand goes I used to be the one buying all the cheap stuff for school. Then one day I used one of those Ticonderoga pencils and it was a beautiful thing. Those cheap ones were constantly breaking but the Ticonderoga would not need to be sharpened until the lead wore down and they last forever. As far as the sharpeners go, having volunteered and even subbed a little I can tell you that sharpening pencils is a huge distraction (they are loud, kids pencils break in the middle of a lesson and the students have to disrupt the teacher, etc...) and time waster. In addition pencil sharpeners don't last like they used to. It's amazing how expensive those things are these days and then to have them not last stinks. Teachers actually have to make rules in regards to sharpening pencils. In the long run an individual will sometimes save money buying the more expensive brands. I try to buy them this time of year while they are on sale.

 

When my kids got to middle school the teachers stopped asking for supplies. I will get the occasional request for tissues or hand sanitizer but they expect the kids to have their own pencils and paper and if they don't they have to borrow from a friend. They will require the kids to have a binder, notebook, etc... but nothing that goes into the pot so to speak.

 

One last thing, there seems to be more and more back to school backpack programs every year. The one our family has volunteered with in the past is A Fresh Hope. I don't know if they still do the backpack program since so many others popped up but I would recommend looking into those. I think most provide a backpack filled with supplies. Your friend may not get everything she needs but something is better than nothing. With A Fresh Hope (they also do Hope for Christmas) you had to register a head of time.

 

Good Luck to your friend. We all fall on hard times. I know for our family we have been on both the giving and receiving end and it is easier to give than receive for some reason.

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There is just not enough time or enough words to respond to all the ignorance spread throughout this thread.

 

To the OP: I think that this list is more of a wishlist. It says required to get the best response. I also don't think the backpack and lunch are meant to be shared. As far as the name brand goes I used to be the one buying all the cheap stuff for school. Then one day I used one of those Ticonderoga pencils and it was a beautiful thing. Those cheap ones were constantly breaking but the Ticonderoga would not need to be sharpened until the lead wore down and they last forever. As far as the sharpeners go, having volunteered and even subbed a little I can tell you that sharpening pencils is a huge distraction (they are loud, kids pencils break in the middle of a lesson and the students have to disrupt the teacher, etc...) and time waster. In addition pencil sharpeners don't last like they used to. It's amazing how expensive those things are these days and then to have them not last stinks. Teachers actually have to make rules in regards to sharpening pencils. In the long run an individual will sometimes save money buying the more expensive brands. I try to buy them this time of year while they are on sale.

 

When my kids got to middle school the teachers stopped asking for supplies. I will get the occasional request for tissues or hand sanitizer but they expect the kids to have their own pencils and paper and if they don't they have to borrow from a friend. They will require the kids to have a binder, notebook, etc... but nothing that goes into the pot so to speak.

 

One last thing, there seems to be more and more back to school backpack programs every year. The one our family has volunteered with in the past is A Fresh Hope. I don't know if they still do the backpack program since so many others popped up but I would recommend looking into those. I think most provide a backpack filled with supplies. Your friend may not get everything she needs but something is better than nothing. With A Fresh Hope (they also do Hope for Christmas) you had to register a head of time.

 

Good Luck to your friend. We all fall on hard times. I know for our family we have been on both the giving and receiving end and it is easier to give than receive for some reason.

 

 

Very good post!!!

 

I can't tell you the times, as a room mother for 3 kids, that I went to a Christmas party and was short on gifts. I do understand that there are some families that just can't afford it, but most could scrape up $5 for a present to see that their kids did not feel any less than the others. I learned to carry an extra boy and girl present with me.

 

I guess I just have a hard time understanding how these parents can pull up to the school in their 30K plus vehicles, mama don't work and they can't afford to send supplies with their kids to school??? I see it every day in my job--folks about to lose their homes and cars, but the wife sits at home. I can't imagine not getting out and getting a job to provide for my family, but then again, I was a single mom and had no choice. I just have to sit and shake my head sometimes.

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i worked for years in the school system in after school program. YOUR child NEEDS to have pencil and paper and crayons in their backpack. every day the adults Had to find these items from our supplies for homework time. by schools end there were no pencils to loan. the children keep them or lose them. they do not care, it is not their stuff. the employees bought these things. every day tons of time was lost hunting these items and sharpening pencils. just send your kids to school prepared to learn. NOT with the excuses of i don't have these things. because they love to have excuses to continue not doing their homework. they are your kids not the teachers and the staff.

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To weed out the lazy parent, every parent that drops off a kid.....

 

 

Let the lazy parent ....

 

 

I really don't get this whole "lazy parent" thing. It takes more effort to drive your child to school than it does to get up, put on a robe and stand on the front porch while they catch the bus. Then you can go back to bed, like I do. Now that's lazy. :lol:

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I really don't get this whole "lazy parent" thing. It takes more effort to drive your child to school than it does to get up, put on a robe and stand on the front porch while they catch the bus. Then you can go back to bed, like I do. Now that's lazy. :lol:

 

 

I would much rather have the extra time with the kids and also let 'em sleep a bit longer. Why does it matter what mode of transportation the parents choose? LOL

 

It's a moot point with me, we school choice. I would still drive them even if they attended the school they're districted to though. We have some great talks on that ride to school.

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There is just not enough time or enough words to respond to all the ignorance spread throughout this thread.

 

To the OP: I think that this list is more of a wishlist. It says required to get the best response. I also don't think the backpack and lunch are meant to be shared. As far as the name brand goes I used to be the one buying all the cheap stuff for school. Then one day I used one of those Ticonderoga pencils and it was a beautiful thing. Those cheap ones were constantly breaking but the Ticonderoga would not need to be sharpened until the lead wore down and they last forever. As far as the sharpeners go, having volunteered and even subbed a little I can tell you that sharpening pencils is a huge distraction (they are loud, kids pencils break in the middle of a lesson and the students have to disrupt the teacher, etc...) and time waster. In addition pencil sharpeners don't last like they used to. It's amazing how expensive those things are these days and then to have them not last stinks. Teachers actually have to make rules in regards to sharpening pencils. In the long run an individual will sometimes save money buying the more expensive brands. I try to buy them this time of year while they are on sale.

 

When my kids got to middle school the teachers stopped asking for supplies. I will get the occasional request for tissues or hand sanitizer but they expect the kids to have their own pencils and paper and if they don't they have to borrow from a friend. They will require the kids to have a binder, notebook, etc... but nothing that goes into the pot so to speak.

 

One last thing, there seems to be more and more back to school backpack programs every year. The one our family has volunteered with in the past is A Fresh Hope. I don't know if they still do the backpack program since so many others popped up but I would recommend looking into those. I think most provide a backpack filled with supplies. Your friend may not get everything she needs but something is better than nothing. With A Fresh Hope (they also do Hope for Christmas) you had to register a head of time.

 

Good Luck to your friend. We all fall on hard times. I know for our family we have been on both the giving and receiving end and it is easier to give than receive for some reason.

 

Someone on my facebook told me after I posted the thread last night that those pencils are apparently easier for small hands to use than standard ones. I had never heard of them until now.

 

You know it's a shame that parents aren't given some type of tax break for school costs when they file their annual income taxes. Something besides the one-day tax free holiday, I mean. Isn't that in mid-August this year? I normally don't pay attention to it but I need a new monitor for my old pc and thought I read somewhere that computer-related purchases would also be tax-free that day. I could be wrong on that one.

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As a tax preparer with almost 20 yeas experience, I agree with you. Especially when college expenses can be deducted. Maybe a flat amount, such as educators receive for supplies they purchase.

 

Then again, Congress and the IRS did not ask for my input on what should and should not be deductible.

 

Yes, the tax holiday is August 9 and 10th this year. Amazing at some of the things that are exempt! I mean really, why are DIAPERS on the list? blink.gif

 

 

You know it's a shame that parents aren't given some type of tax break for school costs when they file their annual income taxes. Something besides the one-day tax free holiday, I mean. Isn't that in mid-August this year? I normally don't pay attention to it but I need a new monitor for my old pc and thought I read somewhere that computer-related purchases would also be tax-free that day. I could be wrong on that one.

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