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Kyron Horman (7) missing for 40 days


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eym_sirius, you have lost your mind. You really have. Yes, I vented some. I saw ridiculous scenarios dancing around. I thought I would share how ridiculous they were sounding by amplifying a scenario

They just did a segment on this on Fox 5. It is now a criminal investigation, but they didn't mention anything about the stepmom being a suspect. They have been searching the school and around the

PM, It seems that you don't trust LE/FBI sufficiently to have confidence in their competence. When they excluded Kaine, I considered that they did that after due diligence. I trust their judgment

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The latter was a response to the scenario game that I thought was being played. The former is definitely something to look at. These people are turning their missing child into a profit machine. The more the father talks, the more I wonder what he is truly capable of doing. And the quote was not mine. I was simply sharing.

 

This has stopped being about Kyron and it has become the Kaine and Desiree Show. The police have repeatedly stated the stepmother is fully cooperating. That is not what Kaine and Desiree want you to believe. But, they aren't providing any other information about how she is not cooperating or how she lied or anything.

 

Why is the family not concerned about finding the child they love? That really bothers me.

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The latter was a response to the scenario game that I thought was being played. The former is definitely something to look at. These people are turning their missing child into a profit machine. The more the father talks, the more I wonder what he is truly capable of doing. And the quote was not mine. I was simply sharing.

 

This has stopped being about Kyron and it has become the Kaine and Desiree Show. The police have repeatedly stated the stepmother is fully cooperating. That is not what Kaine and Desiree want you to believe. But, they aren't providing any other information about how she is not cooperating or how she lied or anything.

 

Why is the family not concerned about finding the child they love? That really bothers me.

 

I too was really confused when I saw the conference yesterday. Not sure what their reasoning is but I don't agree with it.

 

I was also shocked at the way they did the media, basically asking the reporters not to report except what THEY want them to report and kicking those out simply because of the paper/news station they were affiliated with.

 

One thing about their comment asking Terri to cooperate that occurred to me. Maybe they were thinking that since she now has an attorney, any cooperating she WAS doing will now stop. Maybe this was their way of begging her not to.

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The latter was a response to the scenario game that I thought was being played. PM - you might want to choose a game that is more in-line with your skill level. Introduction of the absurd and ridiculous makes you appear, well ---

 

 

 

 

These people are turning their missing child into a profit machine. How do you have any idea of what profits they've made? Profits?? Income vs. expenditures??? Sorry, PM, but this seems to be an opinion that you read elsewhere, and you've adopted it as your own. You can't possibly know what expenses "these people" have, so you don't have any idea what, if any, "profit" is being realized by them.

 

 

 

The more the father talks, the more I wonder what he is truly capable of doing. And the quote was not mine. I was simply sharing. I think that one of the most worthless and useless things that a person can post is SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION! I would encourage everyone to think for himself, regardless of the topic. It's a kind of weenie-posting, where you put something out there as viable and when someone challenges the viability of the statement, you say that the statement belongs to someone else. See how utterly useless borrowed comments are? If you're not going to own them and follow up with supportive opinions, facts or ideas -- don't post other people's mouth-foam. It makes you look as crazy as they are!

 

The police have repeatedly stated the stepmother is fully cooperating. What has she said since she lawyered up? It was AFTER she retained counsel that the parents asked her to disclose FULLY everything that she knows. Again - The parents aren't the ones setting up the press conferences. It's the FBI. And they're poking under rocks to see if anything runs out.

 

Why is the family not concerned about finding the child they love? He's dead.

 

That really bothers me. You know that the local LE and FBI have FULLY briefed the parents on the investigation. They have circumstantial evidence that Kyron is dead and that the stepmom killed him. This goes back to the matter of trust. I trust the LE and FBI that they have conducted a textbook investigation of the case and have applied due diligence standards to all matters concerning the integrity of the evidence chain.

 

You seem to be having a difficult time grasping the concept of a "chain of evidence", PM. You don't go off, helter-skelter, looking for bits and pieces of isolated information that are not linked. As I described previously, you take those closest, exclude those who don't meet the criteria (that includes the dad, by the way) and start to link the chain with the telltale stench of deception. In the context of the investigation, deception smells like death. You know it, you never forget it and it stays in your memory for a lifetime. The evidence chain goes from that first indication of deception and continues until it's complete or it has been broken. If it's broken, you go in another direction and you EXCLUDE that individual.

 

Consider this, too, PM. As citizens, we have rights to unreasonable searches of our property or person. That means that for certain evidence to be collected, probable cause has to be revealed to a judge for a warrant. You keep saying that investigators "ought to look at" this or that. They can only do so much looking without the evidence chain. If the chain is empty, where do you get your information from about these various, possible unknown subjects of the investigation?

 

Bottom line -- Investigators are properly applying the law to the investigation and are proceeding methodically toward a conclusion.

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I don't know what to think anymore. The whole thing just makes me sick.

 

Those are two different things. Everyone is heartsick over the fact that young Kyron has been victimized. A seven year old? While frail and delicate, he apparently also had an endearing charm. He had insecurities and fears, but what seven year old doesn't? A person who doesn't feel the pain of loss, the waste of loss, and the heartbreaking dissapointment of a life not yet lived -- that person has no conscience.

 

But, "I don't know what to think"? You work these things out in your mind and come to terms with problems/issues over time. Because you come to terms with the likelihood of the worst case scenario - That doesn't mean that you wouldn't prefer a more positive outcome. Heck, everyone who cares about others wants this to turn out well.

 

So ask yourself: "Do I trust Law Enforcement/FBI to use their experience, their expertise, and their knowledge, to properly build the evidence chain and bring the person or persons to justice? If so, the you believe that they are building a chain of evidence based on what they have collected to date. They can't reveal everything yet, but what this means is that you do know what to think, you're just really uncomfortable thinking it!

 

It just means that you have a heart!

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I am not a murderer or a kidnapper, so I can't determine what likely happened? I guess you are saying you are a murdering kidnapper since you can determine scenarios. Interesting.

 

The parents are not paying for the search. But they are learning how to play the press. Maybe preparing for a movie deal? Oh! I forgot, you are the kidnapping murdering expert. You know the answer to that already.

 

The father is extremely controlling of everything. He won't even talk to any press that has mentioned the fact that he has had his own serious issues, such as previous restraining orders because his first wife was afraid of him and was afraid he would take the child . . . Kyron was that child.

 

The sheriff stated AFTER she had an attorney that she was cooperating fully in the investigation. So, I do know that answer fully. Did you bother to look at that interview? That is the one where he would not confirm if they had interviewed any sex offenders in the area. Nor did he even know the father was at home that day, according to the interview. And, the father did say he was at home.

 

If my child were dead, I would still want him found. You wouldn't? I guess that is the kidnapper murderer mindset, right?

 

It does bother me. They are more involved in creating other drama to remove the spotlight from Kyron. And if the police are telling the family everything, they are idiots! Why would they tell them everything in an ongoing investigation? Wouldn't that be problematic when it came time to go to court? Couldn't that blow an investigation completely? I mean, since you are the kidnapping murdering expert and all.

 

You can question my qualifications all you want. I know a lot more than you are probably aware. And your opinion is not really worth much to me. Thank you for playing though.

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I am not a murderer or a kidnapper, so I can't determine what likely happened? I don't recall saying where only a murderer/kidnapper can determine what happened. Where did you get that?

 

 

I guess you are saying you are a murdering kidnapper since you can determine scenarios. Interesting. No, my credentials are in writing, not murder/kidnapping. I didn't say that only a murderer kidnapper can determine scenarios. I did say that you're not very good at it, since your scenarios include the absurd (alien abduction).

 

The parents are not paying for the search. But they are learning how to play the press. Maybe preparing for a movie deal? Oh! I forgot, you are the kidnapping murdering expert. You know the answer to that already. PM, you said that the parents were "profiting" from the situation. Explain again how you know about their expenditures and revenue flow to conclude that they are making a profit. And isn't this another, in a series of red herrings? After all, what does this have to do with who killed poor young Kyron? What's strange is not that the parents DO get in front of the camera, but that the stepmom does not. In the first interview where she was just in the background, she ACCEPTED consolation in her body language, but did not offer it. Do you know why this was so? Do you know what it tells about her? Did you happen to notice the way that her red hair draped? Do you have any idea of the significance of this as it pertains to the investigation? I'll give you a hint: It's all related!

 

The father is extremely controlling of everything. He won't even talk to any press that has mentioned the fact that he has had his own serious issues, such as previous restraining orders because his first wife was afraid of him and was afraid he would take the child . . . Kyron was that child. If restraining orders reflecting serious issues present a problem for you regarding the natural dad, why do they not present a problem for you with the CURRENTLY IN PLACE R.O. against stepmom? The dad has been excluded from suspicion. The end. Get over it! He didn't do it! You know what "opportunity" means. right? He didn't have the opportunity. No further discussion necessary on the dad.

 

The sheriff stated AFTER she had an attorney that she was cooperating fully in the investigation. So, I do know that answer fully. Did you bother to look at that interview? That is the one where he would not confirm if they had interviewed any sex offenders in the area. Nor did he even know the father was at home that day, according to the interview. And, the father did say he was at home. I think that the dad said that he worked from home in the afternoon. He went in to work in the morning. Do you not trust the LE to have checked out his alibi? Just how incompetent do you think that the local LE and the FBI are? Of course they're not going to confirm which pervs they've interviewed! Of IF they've interviewed them, because WHO the pervs are is a matter of public record. They have to register as part of their status.

 

If my child were dead, I would still want him found. You wouldn't? I guess that is the kidnapper murderer mindset, right? Enough with the straw-man arguments, PM. I didn't say that I wouldn't want my child found. But you don't just go out into the woods, call out his name with any hope at all that you'll get an answer from your child. But you can try this on. If PD were missing, would you conduct an investigation on your own that conflicted with LE? Would you trudge through the swamps of S. LA calling her name out? I just don't think that you'd do that unless some EVIDENCE led you to a specific area. And then LE would do the swamp thing, not you!

 

And if the police are telling the family everything, they are idiots! Do you mean that they should not have told the dad that they had a chain of evidence against his wife for the murder of his son? And that their daughter was in danger??? They'd be derelict in their duties if they DIDN'T tell him!

 

Why would they tell them everything in an ongoing investigation? Wouldn't that be problematic when it came time to go to court? So that he could take the proper preventative action to keep the daughter and himself safe! No, it's not problematic. There will be no spousal privilege by the time they go to court. How would sharing critical evidence with the father and mother of the dead child be considered contamination?

 

If they said this - "Mr. Horman, we found Kyron's blood in the back floorboard of your wife's truck. She had tried to clean it up, but forensic evidence points to a significant blood pool."

 

Wouldn't YOU want to know if it were your spouse??? And what's the first two things that you'd do? Right!! Divorce and get a restraining order!! Exactly what he did.

 

 

 

 

Couldn't that blow an investigation completely? No.

 

 

You can question my qualifications all you want. No thanks. This isn't about you.

 

I know a lot more than you are probably aware. I'm aware of more than you probably know, PM. I understand the "la, la, la" signature. I don't understand the "alien" comments, the murderer/kidnapper sarcastic jabs or any of the other "off the deep end" posts from you.

 

Something is going on with you that in some way is/was related to this situation and you're playing it out on this relatively obscure stage (sorry, Pubby). Hence the comment from other folks that you might want to take some time away from the message boards, etc. I'm not so sure that it's a good idea for you to NOT be able to express, vent, etc. It's probably a positive outlet for your issues.

 

 

 

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Body surfaces near Rooster Rock

 

 

http://www.katu.com/news/local/97739459.html

 

COLUMBIA RIVER, Ore. – A boater has discovered a body in the Columbia River, near Rooster Rock State Park about 21 miles east of Portland.

 

On June 25 we reported on a Stevenson man presumed drowned after his small raft capsized near the Stevenson boat launch on the Columbia River. The man, identified as 26-year-old Jordan Jaco, was described as "loved by everyone" and has yet to be found.

 

The Skamania County Sheriff's Office was handling that search.

 

We do not yet know if this body found Saturday is indeed Jaco's. We will keep you posted as details are confirmed.

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Regardless of how this whole things turns out, I hope this will be a lesson for all schools EVERYWHERE.

Maybe this will be the beginning of "Kyron's Law" or something.

 

No doubt! Cameras, sign-in/sign-out, picture ID necessary to pick up a child. Calling the parents mandatory, when the child does not show up for class - I really thought that all schools did all of this nowadays!

 

With GPS technology, you'd think that they'd invent a chip to put in a child's shoe, in his backpack, in his GLASSES - something so that he could be located in the event of an abduction.

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eym_sirius, you have lost your mind. You really have. Yes, I vented some. I saw ridiculous scenarios dancing around. I thought I would share how ridiculous they were sounding by amplifying a scenario to the level of yours. And I do have people I speak to besides of those here on PCom. PCom really isn't all that big in my life. Surprise! You discussed qualifications, then you twist it around. You say you write. So now, knowing about conjunctions, verbs, and pronouns makes you an expert? Interesting. As for recognizing social cues, I got that. I have plenty of education in that area. Trust me. And I even got to write a few big ol' papers on those subjects to earn that education. Even got published some. Just so you know. Does that help you feel less concerned about my qualifications? You are really stretching it.

 

I don't give a flying flip about your concerns. However, I think I do need to do one thing . . . But, that is none of your concern either. I am perfectly content in my beliefs regarding this case.

 

My beliefs are simple, they do not have enough evidence to convict anyone at this time. None of them. And I would hope the police would make sure they have more than enough proof before charging someone. I am almost positive blood was not dripping from the truck bed since it was returned to the family. They might have kept it if they found blood. I think you are warping this into your own little box. I have mentioned several other possibilities. It may be the stepmother, but I think it would be an unlikely plan for her simply because of the recognition at the school. And, no, the father has not been excluded. The sheriff stated no one had been excluded. So, that doesn't fit the facts either. Your information that you are touting as evidence to support your view is based on flawed and inaccurate information, much of which does not match the facts already released.

 

What I should "know" the police have already done is not facts. It is an assumption on your part of what has and has not been done. The sheriff himself stated he did not know the father was home that day, much less, when he left his office, or if he had made it into his office. If he didn't know he worked from home, then how are you so positive his alibi was checked? If it had been checked, the sheriff would have known that information. The sheriff himself could not confirm that sex offenders had been interviewed. So, if the sheriff isn't sure they have been interviewed, how do you KNOW they have been? Not how do you FEEL about it, or what you THINK they did, but real truth based on factual information. You don't know any of this. You just use your imagination. Well, Barney Dinosaur, how's that working out for you?

 

I am not screaming this woman is innocent. But I am not crocheting a noose for her either. I think the police have focused on her too much so far, and I am concerned they may have missed out on some other important information. The bottomline is, the child is missing, and instead of me worrying about superficial things, I would be wanting to know where my child is. Did I ever say they needed to be in the search parties? No. I sure didn't. You take part of what I say and imagine what you want it to mean. I answered your comments and you turn them into statements not connected to the inane babbling you were doing.

 

I say, let's wait and see. If Kaine isn't directly involved in this, which I am not sure of yet based on the information I have seen, I guarantee you he will have a movie deal within 6 months. Profiting from his child's plight. You just have to wait on that one.

 

For now, I have things to do. You have a GREAT holiday! I plan to! Celebrating starts tonight!!!!

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Not Kyron!!

 

 

 

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Columbia-River-Body-Found/MUtmkIWzhUaHSQc7yhOCLA.cspx

 

CORBETT, Ore. - A body was found in the Columbia River Saturday, near Rooster Rock.

 

Deputies suspect it could be the remains of Jordan Jaco, a rafter who went missing June 25, when his raft reportedly flipped over in high winds upstream, on the Washington side of the river near Stevenson, Wash. He was last seen attempting to swim to shore, but he apparently didn't make it.

 

However, law officers stopped short of confirming that it was Jaco's body which was recovered Saturday afternoon. They did say it was definitely not the body of Kyron Horman, the second-grader who disappeared from Skyline Elementary School more than four weeks ago.

 

The medical examiner's office is conducting an autopsy to confirm the identity, and also to officially determine the cause of death.

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Well alright. I got a good laugh out of some of these post. Haha. Some of these remarks are quite uh... how do I say this,psycho? I think that's the right word.

 

Yes, that's the word. Here's a word that PM must not be able to understand: Evidence. When a member of the law enforcement community holds a press conference in a murder investigation, some of the phrasing, some of the content - is designed to assist in solving the case. "We can't comment" doesn't mean "we don't know". It means, "y'all don't need to know this yet". Comments made by investigators are not evidence. They give general information and they assist with the investigation, in that they are aimed at the perpetrator as much as the general public.

 

 

 

The evidence released - the evidence - points toward one person. For reasons that I trust, investigators want the public to presume that there's not a sexual-sadistic killer out there who might pick up another little boy. They know.

 

But the fact that they've held back a good bit of information means that the perpetrator of this crime could be anyone who had motive, means and opportunity. There's a dozen reasons that it's not the dad, perhaps the most telling one is the fact that the judge, after seeing the evidence that he sealed - awarded custody of the infant daughter to the dad! This never would have happened if he were truly a suspect/person of interest.

 

Within the framework of the investigation are pieces of evidence that link together to show at least complicity at this point. The motive for deception is usually complicity. In other words, if she didn't "do it", she knows who did. When Kyron's mom and dad asked for her "full cooperation", this is what they're talking about. Separated from her, it's unlikely that they would challenge her to come forward with information if THEY were, in any way, involved. She has NOT disclosed the reason for her being on Sauvie Island when she said that she was elsewhere. It doesn't mean that Sauvie Island is where she dumped the body, but it does show evidence of deception, which, again, reveals a possible motive of her involvement in the crime.

 

 

I've described LE/FBI's methodology for solving cases. It's not very difficult to understand. There is an evidence chain connected to TMH that is absent with every other individual interviewed by the police - AS FAR AS WE KNOW. Could TMH have been complicit with a perv who lives or visits with someone on Sauvie Island? Yes, possibly. Could Sauvie Island have been the meeting place where she took Kyron to meet up with her co-conspirator (if there is one)? Yes, possibly.

 

See, not trusting LE/FBI that they are doing the right things, interviewing the right people, taking the proper legal avenues -- This is accusing them of incompetence! And they're not! These are the best in their profession at solving cases involving missing children. To mistrust them is to be extremely paranoid about the way our law enforcement community does its job. All that is needed for the resolution of this crime is patience. There's no need to bring a circumstantial case to the grand jury unless it is decided that a body cannot be found. The District Attorney will decide if the circumstantial case (which can be an air-tight case) is sufficient to present to the Grand Jury for a murder indictment.

 

Without a body, though, it's difficult to prove murder, since, from all accounts, he is presumed alive unless evidence weighs significantly to the contrary. THIS is the reason for the delay! A body that proves Kyron is dead, so that they KNOW what to charge the stepmom with.

 

It'll happen eventually.

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Landscaper tells detectives Terri Moulton Horman offered him money to kill her husband

 

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html#comments

 

 

A landscaper who worked for Kyron Horman's family at their rural Northwest Portland home told authorities that the missing boy's stepmom offered to pay him to kill her husband.

 

The landscaper told authorities that Terri Moulton Horman approached him with the murder-for-hire plot six to seven months before Kyron disappeared, The Oregonian has learned.

 

She reportedly offered the landscaper, who advertises his expertise in lawn care, a large sum of money to carry out the scheme, sources say.

 

Detectives with the Multnomah County Major Crimes Team shared the landscaper's account with Kyron's father, Kaine Horman, last weekend, prompting him to leave the house June 26 with the couple's 19-month-old daughter.

 

Within two days, he obtained a family law attorney and filed divorce papers and a petition for a restraining order under the Family Abuse Prevention Act.

 

Investigators also recorded a conversation June 26 among the cooperating landscaper, Terri Horman and an undercover law enforcement officer, but Horman shut down the conversation fairly quickly, sources said.

 

Detectives later confronted Terri Horman directly with the murder-for-hire allegation, which she denied, sources say. She has not been charged with a crime, as a criminal investigation proceeds.

 

 

 

 

This definitely makes sense as why Kaine left, the 2 911 calls as well as the restraining order, but IF it's true, wouldn't LE have arrested Terri??????

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This definitely makes sense as why Kaine left, the 2 911 calls as well as the restraining order, but IF it's true, wouldn't LE have arrested Terri??????

She denies it, so unless the landscaper has a way of backing it up they have no proof.

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http://politics-and-world-5678.blogspot.com/2010/07/kyron-horman-missing-case-latest-news_04.html

 

Sunday, July 4, 2010Kyron Horman Missing Case Latest News Updates - A Murder for Hire Plot

The Kyron Horman missing child case updates grow thicker, as the latest news just in suggests a murder for hire plot. Kyron Horman's stepmother Terri Moulton Horman allegedly offered a landscaper a large sum of money to kill Kyron's father, Kaine. This is breaking news in the case.

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http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Investigative-Noose-Tightens-Around-Kyrons-Stepmom/l4i6IFRqZ0C60O2oBmelsA.cspx

 

Quote

Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton Sunday said he had "no comment" directly about the facts in the article, and he was "not sure how the information was obtained". However, anonymous but reliable sources tell KOIN Local 6 that the Oregonian story is basically accurate, and the accusations are real. Staton did imply that events could unfold quickly during the next few days. When asked for a timetable of upcoming developments, he told KOIN Local 6, "I should be able to answer a lot more questions this coming week. I've got a lot of decisions this coming week"

 

Hoping this means that an arrest is coming soon, maybe she will start talking about where Kyron is once they can question her for hours on end.

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All I know is that if my child were missing I'd be turning over every rock I could find to look for him. I'd talk to anyone who would listen, I wouldn't sell shirts or balloons and make a party out of it. I wouldn't be looking for movie or book deals and as hard as I would try to listen to the FBI if they were involved, they could go on back to Washington if they wanted me to keep my mouth shut. I can't imagine what these parents are going through, but something is off here....WAY OFF! And it seems to be getting worse everyday.

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All I know is that if my child were missing I'd be turning over every rock I could find to look for him. I'd talk to anyone who would listen, I wouldn't sell shirts or balloons and make a party out of it. I wouldn't be looking for movie or book deals and as hard as I would try to listen to the FBI if they were involved, they could go on back to Washington if they wanted me to keep my mouth shut. I can't imagine what these parents are going through, but something is off here....WAY OFF! And it seems to be getting worse everyday.

 

Where are you getting this information, MO3? It seems to get worse every day? Then you're getting reports about this every day? From what credible source? You must know that the FBI has told the parents that running thier own, unscientifc individual investigation is the WORST thing that they could do! They have no method of collecting forensic evidence. If they happened upon a crime scene, they would just contaminate whatever evidence would be there -- IF they were able to recognize it as evidence. They have no interviewing skills, no training in working leads, no way to make sure that the legal case isn't compromised, no legal basis on which to gain access to anyone's private property to do searches --- You get the idea, though I could continue pretty much indefinitely at why the parents in this real case and you in the hypothetical case would not be able to conduct a search -- at all!

 

As far as the FBI, they are in charge. It's very possible that if you DID anything to get in the way of their investigation, they would not "go back to Washington", but arrest you for obstruction!

What's "off" are the people who are talking out of their you-know-whats about what they'd do if they were in the parents' shoes. By all means, though, try to show that you're not in that number of people who are paying more attention to gossip and less attention to the evidence chain. Say exactly what you'd do to "look for him" and not get arrested for obstruction. You can assume that the FBI has told you to not do your own investigation and to let the chain of evidence link the perpetrator to the crime scene. They've told you in this hypothetical case to NOT hold your own press conferences because that could give away key evidence to the individual who committed this terrible crime!

 

Turning the investigation over to the FBI is all that the parents can do! This is the strongest action that they can take, to let federal investigators use the power of the US government, their technology, their expertise -- everything that makes them the best -- to attempt to bring this situation to its best conclusion, under the circumstances.

 

We'll see what this week brings, with the revelation of the attempt several month ago, allegedly, by TMH to hire a hit man to do a number on her husband, who has recently filed for divorce and taken the small child out of the home for her protection from TMH.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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All I know is that if my child were missing I'd be turning over every rock I could find to look for him. I'd talk to anyone who would listen, I wouldn't sell shirts or balloons and make a party out of it. I wouldn't be looking for movie or book deals and as hard as I would try to listen to the FBI if they were involved, they could go on back to Washington if they wanted me to keep my mouth shut. I can't imagine what these parents are going through, but something is off here....WAY OFF! And it seems to be getting worse everyday.

 

You must be reading the same boards PsychoMom reads.

 

Where are the links that says the Hormans are making money off this??

Where are the links about the movie and book deals???

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I watched some of this last night I am afraid that little boy is dead and I do think the step-mom had something to do with it.

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DUI is VERY bad. I agree. How many of you have every driven home after a barbeque and a couple of beers with your kids in the car? You drank and drove and recklessly endangered your children. You are now guilty of murder! After all, you did the same thing she did.

 

That one time is not enough for me to condemn her to the electric chair for murdering Kyron. I need to see proof that SHE did it.

 

What if, just think about it for a minute, KAINE did it. He left for work, but then left work early that day "to work from home." What if he was planning to divorce Terri all along. He was at the steps near the classroom because he knew the morning had a loose schedule. He knew Terri had plans, so she would be leaving. He spots Kyron and gets him to leave out the back door with him. And set Terri up to take the fall. Maybe he just has him in hiding. Maybe he killed him. Who knows? After all, he didn't cry either. He must be guilty. And have any of you checked his history? He had a restraining order against him previously. There is a history of sexual abuse in his family. He might be the problem. Consider it. What a perfect way to get back at your wife! Especially, if you found she was doing something like having an affair.

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So you are casting blame on a man because of what his father and brother did? We had no idea what Desiree's restraining order against was all about. Maybe he threatened to take the kids if she left him. She probably figured he was serious, contacted an attorney and filed for the restraining order. Do you have proof that he ever molested or attempted to molest either of the boys???

Kaine as Kyron's abductor:

Again, consider how much sneaking around Kaine would have to do. He would have to hide, because if one of the teachers saw him it would have blown his cover( and yes, they knew him there. He said in the interview that because Kyron was having problems following rules at school, he and Terri had been having meetings with the teacher and other adults he came in contact with on a daily basis.) He was risking Terri seeing hime and Kyron shouting “DADDY” when he saw him. He would have had no idea Terri wasn't going to walk him to the classroom. Where was he going to hide while waiting for his opportunity? And the car? You said earlier he could have hidden it somewhere, but he would have wanted it close by. Not too far from the exit door. Probably the same door Terri used when she left. Would he have risked that?? Terri KNEW he wasn't supposed to be at school that day. But let's say he manages to hide out, looking around corners, all the while trying not to look suspicious. And where ever he's hiding, he can still see when they enter the hallway but they can't see him. He watches Terri as she lets go of Kyron's hand, she watches him for a few seconds, then turns and walks away.

 

Now, Kaine steps out from his hiding place. He's got to be quick, before Kyron gets to his classroom door. Kyron's friend is standing in the hallway ( If he is to be believed, his story was that after speaking to Kyron, he watched Kyron walk down the stairs) yet he doesn't see Kaine. He MUSTN'T see Kaine!! When Kaine sees the friend, he steps quickly back into hiding until Tanner goes back into the classroom. By this time, Kyron has gotten at least partway down the stairs. Kaine rushes down the stairs to catch up, still trying to stay in the shadows because he KNOWS what he's going to do and can have no witness seeing him with or without Kyron. He manages to catch up to him. Now, Kaine has to tell Kyron SOME kind of story to get him outside and to the car. What would that have been?? Maybe that he had seen a red-eyed tree frog somewhere that Kyron could use for his exhibit. We know it had to be something about the project because from several peoples account, Kyron was VERY excited about the fair. If Kaine had told him they had to leave, I think Kyron would have questioned and possibly even cried. Kaine couldn't risk that. So the tree frog story had to be it. They head to the exit and Kaine is STILL having to try and not be noticed, but Kyron is too excited about his project to notice. They make it to the car. Kyron is whisked away never to be seen again!

Is this what you had in mind? And you thought Terri being responsible was risky????

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I haven't really read through all the attacks on me. Sorry.

 

But, I do have to say, you guys aren't getting it. I NEVER SAID TERRI WAS INNOCENT OF THIS THING! I have posed other possibilities to consider. I have suggested the officials not put on blinders for Terri and miss someone else who may have done this. And it is possible that Terri is evil and wanted to off her innocent husband, and then a stranger took Kyron.

 

I have not said I have no doubt X did this or Y did that. I have suggested other scenarios. And for some reason, people flip out. Good grief people! Can you not think outside of the box?

 

Too many times, the officials zoom in on one person, and it is a completely different thing. I was suggesting they look into other possibilities. That way IF Terri is not the one, at least they have seriously looked into these other things. And all the 'YOU KNOW THEY DID' isn't really true. We don't KNOW what they looked at. We can guess what they did or didn't do, but we don't KNOW, so how am I evil for suggesting it? I want them to have all the evidence they need to punish the guilty person, whether that is Terri, Kaine, Joe Blow, Harry Houdini, or whoever.

 

So, if you can show where I said, "Terri is an innocent angel and you are all bad people for thinking otherwise. We know Kaine is an evil monster and must be punished" I guess I need to apologize. I think you will see I always considered those as possibilities to consider. It's called THINKING. It is a good thing. And it doesn't make you wrong.

 

Twisting my thoughts into my opinion is not correct. I consider things that I might not agree with, but consider as plausible views.

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I watched some of this last night I am afraid that little boy is dead and I do think the step-mom had something to do with it.

 

"Had something to do with it" is exactly right, I think, LR! A little over 10 years ago, I interviewed a woman, a narcissistic pyschpath in prison. There were similarities in their personality profiles that are very interesting. She plied a handsome young day-laborer with sex and the promise that they would be together, to kill her husband. The young man (22) failed on his first attempt (with a baseball bat in the back yard at night). On the second attempt he shot the guy in the head. I also interviewed the hit man, who got 25 years for his testimony against the wife. The woman got life without parole.

 

Here's something that I don't know about TMH and how she fits into the category of the above wife-who-hired-a-hitman. I don't think that the woman in prison would have PERSONALLY offed her hubby. It would have been -- something that a more common person would do. For those who do not think that TMH is a classic narcissist, take a look at her body-builder photos from five years ago. It's difficult to believe that this is the same person - the bodybuilder and the stepmom! Despite the fact that there has been significant PHYSICAL change, her personality remains the same. I think that she would not have personally offed her husband unless she did it in a fit of blind rage or opportunity (he was standing at the edge of a thousand foot cliff and she shoved him). But she's still capable of lashing out.

 

Narcissistic psychopaths are capable of rage (see Joran Van der Sloot). My theory is that if she did this herself, something set her off that put her into such a state of rage that she lashed out against the frail little seven year old. As a competitive bodybuilder only five years ago, TMH is still extremely strong, though she's evidently lost her muscle tone.

 

I think that what set her off was that when Kyron was to go to school that day to "perform", by proxy, her work (the science fair project and possibly the talent show routine - Something set her off. I suspect that it was that he was just too shy/timid to accept the spotlight or was even terrified of it.

 

Somebody worked extremely hard on the science fair project. An adult, because it was too sophisticated for an awkwardly shy seven year old. The backdrop for the ornate display seemed to be at least seven feet tall! I think that TMH did the artwork, conceived the project - did it all. I suspect that Kyron was going to discredit her and the project and refuse to go on stage for the talent show. Having put so much work into the project and prepping Kyron for the talent show, the capper would have been if Kyron had said -- "You're NOT MY REAL MOM!" A single punch from the former bodybuilder could have killed the little boy outright. If it didn't, then the realization that striking her stepson thus would send her, her highness, to jail with the commoners! So if he wasn't dead then, she suffocated him (no blood evidence) and took his body to Sauvie Island or -- dumped it elsewhere and pinged off Sauvie Island intentionally for the purpose of misleading investigators (she was, after all, a CSI enthusiast).

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I haven't really read through all the attacks on me. Sorry.

 

But, I do have to say, you guys aren't getting it. I NEVER SAID TERRI WAS INNOCENT OF THIS THING! I have posed other possibilities to consider. I have suggested the officials not put on blinders for Terri and miss someone else who may have done this. And it is possible that Terri is evil and wanted to off her innocent husband, and then a stranger took Kyron.

 

I have not said I have no doubt X did this or Y did that. I have suggested other scenarios. And for some reason, people flip out. Good grief people! Can you not think outside of the box?

 

Too many times, the officials zoom in on one person, and it is a completely different thing. I was suggesting they look into other possibilities. That way IF Terri is not the one, at least they have seriously looked into these other things. And all the 'YOU KNOW THEY DID' isn't really true. We don't KNOW what they looked at. We can guess what they did or didn't do, but we don't KNOW, so how am I evil for suggesting it? I want them to have all the evidence they need to punish the guilty person, whether that is Terri, Kaine, Joe Blow, Harry Houdini, or whoever.

 

So, if you can show where I said, "Terri is an innocent angel and you are all bad people for thinking otherwise. We know Kaine is an evil monster and must be punished" I guess I need to apologize. I think you will see I always considered those as possibilities to consider. It's called THINKING. It is a good thing. And it doesn't make you wrong.

 

Twisting my thoughts into my opinion is not correct. I consider things that I might not agree with, but consider as plausible views.

 

 

You're right, you've never said Terri was an angel. You've stated that you have no idea who took Kyron. You've stated it could be the dad, a stranger, the man who grabbed another boys book bag, his uncle. You've stated why any of your scenarios are possible. You put forth everyone under the sun EXCEPT Terri.

 

 

Of all your scenarios, it is clear that you feel Terri should be rejected because:

 

"it makes no sense" said several times by you

"It would be too risky" Again, said several times by you

"I think anyone would know that if you go somewhere that everyone knows you well, sneaking out the door is not going to be easy. It may be possible, but not easy. More risky. And a lot more stupid."

 

 

You have made several "suggestions" as what YOU think happened. What you don't want to understand though is that your suggestions makes less sense than Terri being responsible. And although you have spoken of other possibilities, it is CLEAR that your main focus has been on Kaine. Go back through this thread and look at all the accusations against him. I know it's an extremely long thread, so I 'll help you out a bit:

 

I have been thinking about how everyone is crucifying this woman for things she has done since Kyron disappeared.

She hasn't publicly accounted for her day. Neither has the father. He left for his office that morning, but then 'left work early that morning to work from home." Why has no one discussed where he was while his son was missing and no one knew it yet?

She didn't cry. I have yet to see any emotional reaction from the father. The stepfather, yes. But the father? No. He didn't even seem mad, or shocked, or anything.

She went to the gym to workout. He went with her. So, he was working out, too.

She was served with divorce papers and a restraining order. He took the time to go sit in an attorney's office behind her back and chit chat about the state of his marriage instead of looking for his child. He could have simply moved out and taken the baby with him and waited until this was resolved, but he went and spent time to do paperwork? This did not have to be done right this minute. No reason for it to be done that way.

She has not talked to the press. He has controlled what the press hears about his wife.

Maybe they need to take a closer look at him. What better way to get an ex-wife out of your life than to remove the connection? And what better way to get you current wife out of the picture than to set her up to take the fall? After all, he started a relationship with Terri using another woman's baby. What if that is in the works for him right now? And Kyron would go with his father should he have popped up near his classroom. No one saw Terri take him, so why could it not have been him?

 

Maybe he was having an affair and wanted to start fresh. Or maybe he knew she was having an affair and knew she was going to be otherwise engaged that morning, so he set it up to get even.

 

 

And, let's not forget, restraining order were filed against him previously. He apparently has a history of violence, and a family full of sex offenders.

 

 

Has anyone read whether ANYONE else took a lie detector test? I mean, Kaine DOES have a history of violence. It is something to be considered.

 

It would be risky for her try to sneak him out.

 

I saw ridiculous scenarios dancing around. I thought I would share how ridiculous they were sounding by amplifying a scenario to the level of yours.

 

And apparently, they do not know whether Dad went to the office or not, nor how long he was there.

 

And what I am learning about the father is making me question him more and more.

 

 

 

If Kaine was involved, he may not be as well known at the school. If he planned this, he could have simply parked elsewhere and waited by the classroom to get Kyron. Maybe he wasn't planning on sneaking him out, but no one saw him and he just left with him. Maybe using the side entrance. No one would notice him because they didn't know him well and lots of other parents, grandparents, and strangers were there. I don't know. It may have been an absolute stranger. Kids don't think about adults in a school being a "stranger", they are school people. It is just too many options. And too many that don't make sense if it was Terri. This would be an idiotic plan for her because she is known at the school so well. Somewhere you aren't noticed would make more sense.

 

Kaine was not at work that day. He left work. In the morning.

 

You really should take a close look at the father's history and his family history. As well as the fact that he left for work that morning, but ended up working from home instead. Where was he really? How did they verify it?

 

As a human, when you think you know the answer to a situation, you look for information that fits what you believe to be true.

 

 

I think the more the dad talks, the more people will begin to wonder about him.

 

He wasn't at work

 

He isn't Mr. Perfect, and I don't see anything stating he was even looked at. And it is apparent he was not at work.

 

There has been nothing about the timeline, other than he left early that day. Before lunch from what I have read.

 

The more the father talks, the more I wonder what he is truly capable of doing.

 

I say, let's wait and see. If Kaine isn't directly involved in this, which I am not sure of yet based on the information I have seen, I guarantee you he will have a movie deal within 6 months. Profiting from his child's plight. You just have to wait on that one.

 

 

Now, as to my post # 310, does that scenario make any sense to you? IF, as you believe, Kaine is responsible, then you would have to accept it as plausible.

 

 

I am VERY suspicious of Terri. Terri has lied. What lies?

She has said she raised Kyron since he was an infant. The FACT is, she moved in with Kaine to care for Kyron when he was 2 or 3 years old.

She has stated she and Desiree were good friends since before Kyron was born- According to Desiree, she and Terri were never friends.

Kyron's teacher was new. She was a first year teacher.-FACT- the teacher was NOT new. I posted a link in this thread http://www.tspc.state.or.us/LDisplay_Individual.asp?id=3939893V793 If you will check this link, she has been teaching since 2003. Now, Terri KNEW this teacher. She worked closely with her. Why she tell such a lie to her friend???

I have stated several times that I'm not saying Terri did it. I have considered several other scenarios.

I have no idea who is responsible for Kyron's disappearance, but I cannot and WILL NOT consider that LE has it out for Terri to the exclusion of checking out anybody else.

 

That is just crazy!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think YOU are the one with tunnel vision. I think YOU are the one with blinders on.

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DUI is VERY bad. I agree. How many of you have every driven home after a barbeque and a couple of beers with your kids in the car? You drank and drove and recklessly endangered your children. You are now guilty of murder! After all, you did the same thing she did.

 

That one time is not enough for me to condemn her to the electric chair for murdering Kyron. I need to see proof that SHE did it.

 

What if, just think about it for a minute, KAINE did it. He left for work, but then left work early that day "to work from home." What if he was planning to divorce Terri all along. He was at the steps near the classroom because he knew the morning had a loose schedule. He knew Terri had plans, so she would be leaving. He spots Kyron and gets him to leave out the back door with him. And set Terri up to take the fall. Maybe he just has him in hiding. Maybe he killed him. Who knows? After all, he didn't cry either. He must be guilty. And have any of you checked his history? He had a restraining order against him previously. There is a history of sexual abuse in his family. He might be the problem. Consider it. What a perfect way to get back at your wife! Especially, if you found she was doing something like having an affair.

[/quote]

 

 

So you are casting blame on a man because of what his father and brother did? We had no idea what Desiree's restraining order against was all about. Maybe he threatened to take the kids if she left him. She probably figured he was serious, contacted an attorney and filed for the restraining order. Do you have proof that he ever molested or attempted to molest either of the boys???

Kaine as Kyron's abductor:

Again, consider how much sneaking around Kaine would have to do. He would have to hide, because if one of the teachers saw him it would have blown his cover( and yes, they knew him there. He said in the interview that because Kyron was having problems following rules at school, he and Terri had been having meetings with the teacher and other adults he came in contact with on a daily basis.) He was risking Terri seeing hime and Kyron shouting "DADDY" when he saw him. He would have had no idea Terri wasn't going to walk him to the classroom. Where was he going to hide while waiting for his opportunity? And the car? You said earlier he could have hidden it somewhere, but he would have wanted it close by. Not too far from the exit door. Probably the same door Terri used when she left. Would he have risked that?? Terri KNEW he wasn't supposed to be at school that day. But let's say he manages to hide out, looking around corners, all the while trying not to look suspicious. And where ever he's hiding, he can still see when they enter the hallway but they can't see him. He watches Terri as she lets go of Kyron's hand, she watches him for a few seconds, then turns and walks away.

 

Now, Kaine steps out from his hiding place. He's got to be quick, before Kyron gets to his classroom door. Kyron's friend is standing in the hallway ( If he is to be believed, his story was that after speaking to Kyron, he watched Kyron walk down the stairs) yet he doesn't see Kaine. He MUSTN'T see Kaine!! When Kaine sees the friend, he steps quickly back into hiding until Tanner goes back into the classroom. By this time, Kyron has gotten at least partway down the stairs. Kaine rushes down the stairs to catch up, still trying to stay in the shadows because he KNOWS what he's going to do and can have no witness seeing him with or without Kyron. He manages to catch up to him. Now, Kaine has to tell Kyron SOME kind of story to get him outside and to the car. What would that have been?? Maybe that he had seen a red-eyed tree frog somewhere that Kyron could use for his exhibit. We know it had to be something about the project because from several peoples account, Kyron was VERY excited about the fair. If Kaine had told him they had to leave, I think Kyron would have questioned and possibly even cried. Kaine couldn't risk that. So the tree frog story had to be it. They head to the exit and Kaine is STILL having to try and not be noticed, but Kyron is too excited about his project to notice. They make it to the car. Kyron is whisked away never to be seen again!

Is this what you had in mind? And you thought Terri being responsible was risky????

 

Armymom, this is a great example of how investigators solve cases. They have to look at possible scenarios and mentally walk through them for the purpose of judging their viability. I'm yet to see PM make an assessment of a scenario like the one that you just did. Regarding Kaine, let's remember that the initial investigation involved cell phone pings. If you trust the FBI to conduct a competent investigation, then you KNOW that they checked Kaine's pings, too! They KNOW his whereabouts. They KNOW TMH's whereabouts, too - Sauvie Island. What they don't know is why she said that she was somewhere else. So let's remember to keep the investigation in context, walking in the investigators' shoes, too. Kaine has been excluded from being a possible suspect because he did not have the opportunity to be at the crime scene. That part of the investigation narrows the field and anybody trying to reintroduce someone who has been excluded can bring only a SPECIOUS argument to the table. Any information about Kaine is out of context because the evidence provided has already precluded Kaine's involvement.

 

So -- it's not Kaine, who, by the way, did show empathy at press conferences - something that a narcissist is incapable of. But TMH didn't speak at the first press conference - or any other press conferences. Her lack of empathy would show! With downcast eyes, she kept her face pressed against someone else during the entire time that the cameras were rolling. She accepted consolation, but did not offer any. I had asked PM if she knew why this is significant. There was no answer, but I've pretty much already said why she didn't offer HER shoulder. TMH, as a classic narcissistic psychopath , is incapable of empathy. Her own wants, feelings, desires -- everything about her ranks with infinite superiority (in her depraved mind).

 

The question gets asked - "How could she do it?" The above is the answer! It's how a narcissistic psychopath kills, without remorse, without conscience and for reasons that allow her to retain her self-aggrandizement. If she struck little Kyron, in her depraved mind, it would be better for him to be dead than for her to have to go to jail for having hit a child. She would rationalize it away by telling herself that he deserved it.

After all, she did turn from bodybuilder to frump in just five years. She's gotta blame THAT on somebody else!

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Great post eym_sirius!!

 

Did you ever read the story about Diane Downs? No matter how much circumstantial evidence investigators had against her, her attitude was like "I say, therefore it happened."

 

According to PsychMom, if it makes no sense, if it's too risky, then investigators must look for another perpetrator. I wonder what she thinks about the Diane Downs case?

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PsychoMom, while going back through the posts in this thread, I noticed something you said that slipped by me the first time:

 

 

In post 242 you said:

 

"Something to keep in mind. From what I am seeing, they are stuck on it being one person. They need to look at the entire picture. It may be her, but it may not be. Think of all those cases where they stuck to it being one person and missed opportunities; Think of all those cases where they stuck to it being one person and missed opportunities."

 

 

You then listed some cases to prove your point. One of those names was Darlie Routier.

 

You said, and I quote:

"Damon and Devon Routier - Their mother Darlie is on death row even though she was attacked as well, and tons of evidence is there to clear her. She made the horrible mistake of using Silly String and singing Happy Birthday at her child's grave. Proved her guilt."

 

Not sure what "tons of evidence" you believe there is that would clear her, but do you seriously believe she was convicted because of the silly string incident??? Really???

Maybe you need to go back and look over the tons of evidence they had AGAINST her.

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Great post eym_sirius!!

 

Did you ever read the story about Diane Downs? No matter how much circumstantial evidence investigators had against her, her attitude was like "I say, therefore it happened."

 

According to PsychMom, if it makes no sense, if it's too risky, then investigators must look for another perpetrator. I wonder what she thinks about the Diane Downs case?

 

AM,

Diane Downs - just another classic nacissistic psychopath! To hear her speak about the carnage in her back seat reminded me of BTK speaking in the courtroom, recounting his numerous killings with absolutely no feeling for the victims. Diane Downs spoke of her daughter choking in her own blood as if it were a story about what she had to eat that day.

 

Here's what a real professional had to say about Diane Downs. See if there's anything useful/any similarities to the Horman investigation re: TMH.

 

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AM,

Diane Downs - just another classic nacissistic psychopath! To hear her speak about the carnage in her back seat reminded me of BTK speaking in the courtroom, recounting his numerous killings with absolutely no feeling for the victims. Diane Downs spoke of her daughter choking in her own blood as if it were a story about what she had to eat that day.

 

Here's what a real professional had to say about Diane Downs. See if there's anything useful/any similarities to the Horman investigation re: TMH.

 

 

Psychopath:

 

They don't feel stress, they don't feel anxious, they don't generally feel depressed. Lying isn;t a problem with them. They externalize blame. They don't feel guilt. Lack of emotional response.

 

 

If Terri exhibits any of the characteristics, you know, per her lawyer, interviews will NOT be on her to-do list.

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Psychopath:

 

They don't feel stress, they don't feel anxious, they don't generally feel depressed. Lying isn;t a problem with them. They externalize blame. They don't feel guilt. Lack of emotional response.

 

 

If Terri exhibits any of the characteristics, you know, per her lawyer, interviews will NOT be on her to-do list.

 

I think that she's self-aware enough to know that every single micro-expression would be scrutinized. And I think THAT'S why she was snuggled up against, alternately, the parents of Kyron. They didn't seem to be snuggling back, though. It wasn't a show of mutual support and TMH certainly wasn't offering consolation.

 

What's going to happen next, I think is that the court will be forced to unseal the restraining order. There may be more to it than just the murder for hire allegations. This information was likely to be presented to a grand jury and they didn't want potential jurors to be swayed by reports to the extent that the trial would have to be moved elsewhere.

 

So if there's enough evidence to support an indictment, they'll go ahead and arrest her on those charges and get a subpoena for a detailed search of all phone records, computer usage, email accounts, etc (if that hasn't been done already). The information that is discovered while she's in jail on the attempted murder-for-hire plot will hopefully tie up the Kyron case.

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Kyron's Bio-parents answer questions

 

 

http://www.kptv.com/news/24151901/detail.html

 

 

 

Q: When is the last time Kaine saw Kyron?

A: KAINE – I last saw him at about 7:45 am. He was coming back to the house after feeding our cat (Bootsie) and I was heading out to the car to head into the office. I walked over to him, told him I was extremely proud of him for the effort he put into his red-eyed tree frog project, and for him to have a great and fun day at the science fair. We talked about maybe going for a special treat and playing the Wii after school, and then I said “I love you”. He said “I love you too, Dad”, at which point we hugged, and then he went into the house as I got into the car and left. While I have not seen him since, that moment in time is still etched in my mind as if it just happened and is a constant reminder of the joy of having him as a son.

 

Q: Was Kaine working from home the day Kyron went missing? If so, when did Terri get home from the school?

A: KAINE – No, I was in the office that day until about 1:45 and arrived back home a little after 2pm. Terri was already in the house, on her laptop, when I arrived. I kissed Kiara, grabbed some food, and worked from my home office until about 3:30 at which time I put shoes on Kiara and we started walking down toward the bus stop.

 

Q: Was Kyron supposed to be out of school the following Friday for a doctor’s appt.?

A: KAINE – There was some discussion about the appointment but it was unknown exactly when the appointment was scheduled so we cannot comment for certain.

 

 

Q: Have you been asked to take polygraphs? If so, did you take them?

A: Yes, all 3 of us have taken polygraphs and have voluntarily undergone any and all sessions with law enforcement and will continue to do so as long as it takes to bring Kyron home. We wake up every day and check in to proactively see what else we can do to help with the case and to find Kyron. We are relentless in this focus.

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