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Yep, so we fine Archer Daniels Midland, Monsanto, Swift, etc. a trillion dollars each ... and they simply tack it on to the price of food and we pay the fine anyway.

 

The point is that we need to recognize that being punitive in this aspect is not going to be a winner for the people.

 

And, I think in the case of the illegals here who have created a good life, we should try to avoid being punitive. I mean, if we deport every one of them, then we will be moving people out into a society (Mexican) where their skills are not as likely to be well rewarded.

 

I think if we fine them and make it possible for them to stay, we will be ahead of the game in that productive people who have built a good life - and only those who have done so would even be eligible - would pay for the privilege. BTW: When we let a foreign corporation open a new factory here, we - for a fee obviously - let them bring in natives from their country and expedite the process.

 

I also want to bring up one aspect of the enormity of the problem. First, all totaled, we're looking 20 million or more folks. Some are marginal but there are some well educated, productive members of society that stand to lose 'their homes, their property and their lives ' literally their fortunes.

 

I think most of us know human nature well enough to know that really screwing 20 million people ... literally rounding them up and sending back across the border into a criminal-dominated society ... confiscating their fortunes ... is an act that is going to have some real ramifications... especially when this 20 million illegals have another 30 million 'legals' on this side of the border with whom they can hide.

 

I mean, ask the Israeli's how their turning a measly million Palestinians into homeless refugees back in 1948 is working out for them. Indeed, given there are fewer than 4 million Palestinians today and there are 44 million Hispanics living in America alone, ought to give us all pause. This is not something we should want to approach with, self-righteousness, cold heart and heavy hand.

 

That is not a good strategy.

 

pubby

 

You know those enablers I was talking about that help keep the circle going? They just help the folks who exploit illegal aliens when they argue against enforcing the law. I respectfully disagree with you Pubby. They need to be sent home and if they want to come back they need to apply to come legally instead of coming in the back door while it is not being guarded. Shame on our Federal Government for not doing the job we pay taxes to have them do.

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I was reading the following article and I am wondering to myself WHY we have laws if you can "opt" out of following them. How can a college decide they are going to keep an "illegal" in the US AND u

There are many illegal aliens in the school system. We don't require social security cards or citizenship papers. You just have to bring shot records, utitlity bills, and a birth certificates to enrol

You seem to have it all figured out Scootie. How about posting the rest of us a map to your utopia.   I still say our only hope is an all out revolution.

Pubby cracks me up. He posts that there are 20 million helpless people here who we shouldn't ship back to their own "foreign country that is notorious for its corruption." 20 million Mexican citizens sounds like a huge army to me, or at least a decent sized group to enact change in their own country. Why are they helpless? They seem to do well avoiding the laws here and making enough money to spend here AND add to Mexican economy by sending it to relatives. If they don't like their own country, come here legally and become part of our country.

 

Either this student is paying for her own college 100% or she has a fake social security number. You HAVE to have a social security number to file your FAFSA to receive any aid or get any student loans. If she is making enough to pay for college outright without a social security card, who is paying her taxes and withholding?

 

Why is it any better that she has been stealing for ten years? If you commit a crime long enough it isn't a crime? I know there are a lot of middle aged pot heads that will be very relieved to hear that.

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You know those enablers I was talking about that help keep the circle going? They just help the folks who exploit illegal aliens when they argue against enforcing the law. I respectfully disagree with you Pubby. They need to be sent home and if they want to come back they need to apply to come legally instead of coming in the back door while it is not being guarded. Shame on our Federal Government for not doing the job we pay taxes to have them do.

 

I actually think the current law is being enforced as best as it can under the circumstances. There were 5 million deportations in 2009 alone. I think we all know that Cobb and Gwinnett counties are tied into ICE and send a good number of illegal's packing every week.

 

With five million deported in 2009, it is not that there is no enforcement - there is tons of enforcement. The real issue is that to take it to the next level does require an massive dedicated effort that would need to include a truly verified national ID, a massive increase in the border patrol and/or build a big wall (bad idea just as the Maginot line was).

 

But the plain fact is that the US and Mexico share a 2000 mile border, the US lacks a national ID (i.e. papers) largely because we pride ourselves on being a free nation and we are, not coincidentally, the center of the earth in terms of identity theft.

 

That we have a long history of the cultures mixing; that we in essence, took the southwest from Texas to California from Mexico by force of arms just over 100 years ago. All this conspires to make this potentially a political hot potato.

 

Indeed, one wonders why it is coming up right now.

 

Obviously raising passions on this issue is a polarizing issue. It wouldn't take an anthropologist to see that most folks can easily be manipulated to into a predictable ethnocentric thought pattern. I.e. the essence of the citizen v. illegal alien is textbook US v. THEM.

 

Of course the GOP's approach, which had been to protect the corporations that brought in the illegals to break the meat packer unions, to cite one industry now flip-flopping to be the defenders of the border is typical behavior. The plain fact is that Democrats have been largely more interested in limiting illegal immigrants because of the impact of illegal immigration on wage labor and unions.

 

But, as Democrats recognize that they are the party in power, they know they can't demagogue the issue like the Republican's can. Bottomline, it is bad form and horrid diplomacy to threaten to send a child succeeding in college back to Mexico.

 

I would suggest that we'd be a long way toward the resolution of this had the effort at immigration reform in 2007 passed.

 

I do believe that those who have come to the country and have built substantial lives, homes and fortunes should not be summarily stripped of those fortunes and returned penniless to what is, to them, a truly alien country and culture. Their presence here is technically illegal but unlike the migrant farm worker or petty criminal who have not built a life here, the handling of their cases should recognize their enthusiasm and effort.

 

I would think that as a people, we want people who are hard, ambitious, efficient and effective workers. those who have proved so by buying house, ought to collect those rights.

 

pubby

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Can someone tell me why the black "leaders" are jumping to this girl's defense? Are they just without a cause now that the historical president has been elected?

 

I heard a black journalist on the GA Gang this morning say the Cobb County Sherrif was this week's biggest loser. WTS?

 

Must have been a former inmate. :ninja:

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I actually think the current law is being enforced as best as it can under the circumstances. There were 5 million deportations in 2009 alone. I think we all know that Cobb and Gwinnett counties are tied into ICE and send a good number of illegal's packing every week.

 

With five million deported in 2009, it is not that there is no enforcement - there is tons of enforcement. The real issue is that to take it to the next level does require an massive dedicated effort that would need to include a truly verified national ID, a massive increase in the border patrol and/or build a big wall (bad idea just as the Maginot line was).

 

But the plain fact is that the US and Mexico share a 2000 mile border, the US lacks a national ID (i.e. papers) largely because we pride ourselves on being a free nation and we are, not coincidentally, the center of the earth in terms of identity theft.

 

That we have a long history of the cultures mixing; that we in essence, took the southwest from Texas to California from Mexico by force of arms just over 100 years ago. All this conspires to make this potentially a political hot potato.

 

Indeed, one wonders why it is coming up right now.

 

Obviously raising passions on this issue is a polarizing issue. It wouldn't take an anthropologist to see that most folks can easily be manipulated to into a predictable ethnocentric thought pattern. I.e. the essence of the citizen v. illegal alien is textbook US v. THEM.

 

Of course the GOP's approach, which had been to protect the corporations that brought in the illegals to break the meat packer unions, to cite one industry now flip-flopping to be the defenders of the border is typical behavior. The plain fact is that Democrats have been largely more interested in limiting illegal immigrants because of the impact of illegal immigration on wage labor and unions.

 

But, as Democrats recognize that they are the party in power, they know they can't demagogue the issue like the Republican's can. Bottomline, it is bad form and horrid diplomacy to threaten to send a child succeeding in college back to Mexico.

 

I would suggest that we'd be a long way toward the resolution of this had the effort at immigration reform in 2007 passed.

 

I do believe that those who have come to the country and have built substantial lives, homes and fortunes should not be summarily stripped of those fortunes and returned penniless to what is, to them, a truly alien country and culture. Their presence here is technically illegal but unlike the migrant farm worker or petty criminal who have not built a life here, the handling of their cases should recognize their enthusiasm and effort.

 

I would think that as a people, we want people who are hard, ambitious, efficient and effective workers. those who have proved so by buying house, ought to collect those rights.

 

pubby

That young lady is NO child. She has already taken a good education from the American people and she is equiped far better than she would have been if we had not sent her to school. She needs to go home now and work in HER home country to make things better for HER citizens. Jobs are in short supply! They belong to the legal citizens of the US who are struggling to make a living. America has done far more for her than she had any right to expect.

 

Paulding does not have the same program that Cobb, Gwinnett, and a few other counties have that allow them to work with ICE. We will have an increase in the illegal population here in Paulding because they are leaving those counties. Paulding SHOULD have the same program that works so well in other counties. Our Citizens do not have the resources to keep supporting the cost of having them use the services and and go to school here.

http://mdjonline.com...bers-rise-in-Ga-

In the years since, the number of illegal immigrants living in Georgia has skyrocketed, more than doubling to 480,000 from January 2000 to January 2009, according to a new federal report. That gave Georgia the greatest percentage increase among the 10 states with the biggest illegal immigrant populations during those years. Many in metro Atlanta say the explanation for the boom is simple.

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OK, I'm confused. Some on the left are screaming the illegals are taking jobs away from Americans and others are saying, let them pay a fine and give them amnesty so they will be allowed to (cough, cough) pay taxes and VOTE!!

 

Sorry, you can't have it both ways. If they are here illegally they need to go to jail, they broke our laws. :wacko:

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OK, I'm confused. Some on the left are screaming the illegals are taking jobs away from Americans and others are saying, let them pay a fine and give them amnesty so they will be allowed to (cough, cough) pay taxes and VOTE!!

 

Sorry, you can't have it both ways. If they are here illegally they need to go to jail, they broke our laws. :wacko:

 

 

i couldn't disagree with you more.

 

jail? for how long? you know how much that crap costs?

 

please explain to me why illegals should be kept in american jails, funded by american taxpayers.

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i couldn't disagree with you more.

I'm with you. So we throw them in jail: mom, dad, kids, all of them? That cost will be so much higher than what they currently consume in social services, etc. And then what? Drive or fly them (not all illegals are from Mexico) to their respective countries? Put them on a slow boat to China?

 

We spend billions on countries on the other side of the globe, when much of those dollars could theoretically be spent on improving the situations of our neighbors, especially Mexico. We stated to the rest of the world in the Monroe Doctine 187 years ago that we were going to be the top dog in this hemisphere and while for the most part that has been true, many central american and caribbean countries are in abject poverty, making the risk of emigrating illegally to the U.S. more enticing.

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I'm with you. So we throw them in jail: mom, dad, kids, all of them? That cost will be so much higher than what they currently consume in social services, etc. And then what? Drive or fly them (not all illegals are from Mexico) to their respective countries? Put them on a slow boat to China?

 

We spend billions on countries on the other side of the globe, when much of those dollars could theoretically be spent on improving the situations of our neighbors, especially Mexico. We stated to the rest of the world in the Monroe Doctine 187 years ago that we were going to be the top dog in this hemisphere and while for the most part that has been true, many central american and caribbean countries are in abject poverty, making the risk of emigrating illegally to the U.S. more enticing.

 

We could maroon them on an island.

 

because americans are now in charge of mexican jails? whaaa?

 

Sometimes when a person is convicted of a crime in a foreign country, that country allows the person to serve out their sentence in their home country. If Mexico was really serious about being a good neighbor, they would do this, and we could start prosecuting. Honestly, I think the US govt should demand this, and if they don't participate, we should treat them just like we treat Cuba.

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This is very similar to the drug war. You get the same argument that drugs are okay as long as you're not hurting someone else. And the longer you do drugs, and the longer the police look the other way on some drugs then it must be okay then, even if it is really illegal. Besides, some of the drugs users have been doing it a very long time and they hold down decent jobs so we should look the other way as well.

 

In both cases, the enforcement should come down like an iron fist on the employers who are employing these illegal aliens. Go after the C level executives just as you would for a SOX violation. It will dry it up fast than trying to plug the hole in the dike. Look at what the down economy is doing to the illegals.

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I just ran across this website and thought I'd post it in this thread. These numbers just baffle me.

 

http://immigrationcounters.com/

 

 

WOW, if these numbers don't wake folks up, nothing will.

 

 

22,791,790

Illegal Aliens in Country

 

 

580,298

Other Than Mexican Illegals in Country

 

 

30,304,540,105

Money Wired to Mexico Since Jan 2006

 

 

265,990,494,793

Money Wired to Latin America Since 2001

 

 

397,457,374,036

Cost of Social Services Since 1996

 

 

5,050,073

Children of Illegals in Public Schools

 

165,332,975,838

Cost of Illegals in K-12 Since 1996

 

421,881

Illegal Aliens Incarcerated

 

24,847,485,651

Cost of Incarcerations Since 2008

 

742,006

Illegal Alien Fugitives

 

4,954,286

Anchor Babies Since 2002

 

11,608,975

Skilled Jobs Provided to Illegal Aliens

 

 

But don't you know the government would come after us in a New York minute if we don't pay our TAXES....its time for a freaking revolt!!!

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Lets sue Mexico!

 

 

Well why not? I can tell you why not, they provide a great deal of our oil supply and we take care of their people in this country. Always follow the money. That is one theory as to why our government does not close the border.unsure.gif

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Well why not? I can tell you why not, they provide a great deal of our oil supply and we take care of their people in this country. Always follow the money. That is one theory as to why our government does not close the border.unsure.gif

 

But just who is it who is giving these millions of illegals jobs ?

 

The poultry industry gets busted, but for the most part the illegals they have working have top quality forged documents. We are a big industry, but not THAT big.

 

Just where are all these illegals working ?

 

The Mexican numbers also include, I believe, others from central america such as Nicaragua, Honduras, etc. who have come here via Mexico. What about the other half a million from other countries ?

 

If the employers in other industries were chased the way the INS chases the poultry industry they should be able to round them up and ship them back, and prosecute the employers. The new Green Card will help properly identify those who are here legally and who have the right to work.

 

But building a big wall will not stem the flow. It will have to come at the employer level.

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But just who is it who is giving these millions of illegals jobs ?

 

The poultry industry gets busted, but for the most part the illegals they have working have top quality forged documents. We are a big industry, but not THAT big.

 

Just where are all these illegals working ?

 

The Mexican numbers also include, I believe, others from central america such as Nicaragua, Honduras, etc. who have come here via Mexico. What about the other half a million from other countries ?

 

If the employers in other industries were chased the way the INS chases the poultry industry they should be able to round them up and ship them back, and prosecute the employers. The new Green Card will help properly identify those who are here legally and who have the right to work.

 

But building a big wall will not stem the flow. It will have to come at the employer level.

Why don't you take a ride over to Cedar Town and then say the INS chases the poultry industry. You might want to check around the Alabama plants too. They work there in large numbers, also in the meat packing plants, roofing, landscaping, they own the masonry jobs, farms, restaurants, hotels, and the list goes on and on. You need to look at the numbers. I think someone listed a break down of them in this thread. Americans used to make a decent living at those jobs but they have been under bid by companies who employ illegals. Teens don't stand a chance in this economy. Adults are taking anything to feed their families.

 

 

Cobb County deputies have handed over more than 6,000 suspected illegal immigrants to federal officials since 2007, when Sheriff Neil Warren pioneered the 287(g) program in Georgia. That is just Cobb!

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The historic president's aunt is an illegal alien from Kenya. She was granted amnesty yesterday. What a bunch of horse sh*t. Look for Obama to buy himself 22 million votes by granting amnesty to all the Mexicans. If this happens we will have lost our country. It is time for a revolt.

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It is time for a revolt.

And what kind of revolt are you referring to? The kind of revolt at the ballot box come November? I certainly hope that is the kind you're referencing...

 

Our nation, at it's worst, is better than another nation at its best. And we're doing a lot better today than we were a year ago at this time.

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The historic president's aunt is an illegal alien from Kenya. She was granted amnesty yesterday. What a bunch of horse sh*t. Look for Obama to buy himself 22 million votes by granting amnesty to all the Mexicans. If this happens we will have lost our country. It is time for a revolt.

 

I saw that too. The funny thing is that no one knows why she was granted amnesty, on the surface it seems more related to her health than to any actual persecution in her home. And of course Obama issued a statement saying he had nothing to do with it. Because we believe that. She gets turned down for amnesty, stays illegally, then once he gets elected, suddenly gets amnesty.

 

 

And what kind of revolt are you referring to? The kind of revolt at the ballot box come November? I certainly hope that is the kind you're referencing...

 

Our nation, at it's worst, is better than another nation at its best. And we're doing a lot better today than we were a year ago at this time.

 

Thomas Jefferson said we should have a revolution every twenty years. We are very due.

 

And we aren't so much better than other countries. We are better than some, or even most, but definetly not all. I don't see how we are doing better. A year ago I had a job... and so did my brother... and several of my friends... and now the ones that are working are doing fast food 20 hours per week, and having to take on 2 and 3 roommates just not to lose their homes. I don't see things getting better for the average person.

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We're doing better than a year ago? What planet are you on? How many people are STILL unemployed? And how many more people have lost their homes? Better means less people lost a job today? Hell, everyone is already out of work! And businesses have already gone under. So, today, 5 less people lost a job than a year ago today. However, all the people from a year ago are still out of work.

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We're doing better than a year ago? What planet are you on? How many people are STILL unemployed? And how many more people have lost their homes? Better means less people lost a job today? Hell, everyone is already out of work! And businesses have already gone under. So, today, 5 less people lost a job than a year ago today. However, all the people from a year ago are still out of work.

Come on, you know we're collectively doing better than the depths we as a nation hit in early 2009. Are things perfect? No. Are there still many people out of work? Of course, but we've improved and going in the right direction (and I'm not saying a thing political here).

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Come on, you know we're collectively doing better than the depths we as a nation hit in early 2009. Are things perfect? No. Are there still many people out of work? Of course, but we've improved and going in the right direction (and I'm not saying a thing political here).

 

How are we improved? Unemployment is worse in our area, from what I can tell. Just because there aren't as many mass layoffs? That's because, as Psychomom said, there aren't as many people to lay off. And alot of people are coming towards the end of their unemployment. I think it's gonna get worse still before it gets better.

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We're doing better than a year ago? What planet are you on? How many people are STILL unemployed? And how many more people have lost their homes? Better means less people lost a job today? Hell, everyone is already out of work! And businesses have already gone under. So, today, 5 less people lost a job than a year ago today. However, all the people from a year ago are still out of work.

:clapping:

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Come on, you know we're collectively doing better than the depths we as a nation hit in early 2009. Are things perfect? No. Are there still many people out of work? Of course, but we've improved and going in the right direction (and I'm not saying a thing political here).

 

Think again...

 

http://paulding.com/forum/index.php?/topic/244558-american-debt/

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Who has it gotten better for? Name 15 individuals that life has gotten better for. That means, they have a great job, good benefits, and don't have to work 24/7 to keep their job. Not an overall imaginary spin picture, but real people. And for each one of those 15, I can give you 3 that lost their job, house, or both.

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Thomas Jefferson said we should have a revolution every twenty years. We are very due.

 

And we aren't so much better than other countries. We are better than some, or even most, but definetly not all. I don't see how we are doing better. A year ago I had a job... and so did my brother... and several of my friends... and now the ones that are working are doing fast food 20 hours per week, and having to take on 2 and 3 roommates just not to lose their homes. I don't see things getting better for the average person.

Again, what kind of revolution or revolt?

 

We are better than other countries. The gloom and doom-sayers will only see things one way; there is no hope of changing their line of thinking. Words like 'revolt' are dangerous and shouldn't be used lightly.

 

I understand the unemployed thing. I was for quite a while, but during that time I finished a degree, started work on a masters, took an internship from the GA DOL which led to a term assignment which led to a regular job. Most people aren't willing to take an internship, it's just a fact, and I can't blame them. It's demeaning. It's a step down, but sometimes you have to take a step back to go two steps forward.

 

Plus, we have to consider the local employment situation rather than national. Paulding has very limited employment opportunities even in good times. The jobs here are education, government, medical, and retail. Not exactly a hotbed of activity right now.

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Here is where we live. Where else should we look? Some of us have already finished degrees and internships. The jobs just aren't there. Your imagined world sounds great. Sadly, most of America doesn't live there.

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