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I was wondering if there were other parents out there dealing with an Oppositional Defiant Disorder child. My 8 year old stepson has this disorder and although diagnosed, his mother has done nothing in the way of therapy... or maintenance of any kind. As the stepmother, and with my stepson living in Savannah, I need resources for myself on living with an ODD child. TIA!!!

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I was wondering if there were other parents out there dealing with an Oppositional Defiant Disorder child. My 8 year old stepson has this disorder and although diagnosed, his mother has done nothing in the way of therapy... or maintenance of any kind. As the stepmother, and with my stepson living in Savannah, I need resources for myself on living with an ODD child. TIA!!!

 

Has he been diagnosed with any comorbid disorders? ODD is many times coupled with something like bipolar, ADD, and occasionally with the disorders on the autism spectrum. He definitely needs to be in with a good therapist (play therapy may still be appropriate for that age). Is he medicated? Just FYI, if a child is bipolar and they are given certain classes of drugs (such as anti-depressants and stimulants), they become very defiant and can even become psychotic, which sometimes looks like ODD.

 

The Explosive Child is a great place to start, and it's a pretty popular book--you should be able to find it at any of the local bookstores. The Defiant Child is another good one, and it goes into great detail on working with positive reinforcements.

 

Good luck!

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At the time of diagnosis, they believed ADHD and bipolar as well, but wanted to wait and see (the doctor that is). I myself have wondered about aspergers. We have called and talked about this with his mom so many times, but she cries and claims she just doesn't see this at her house. (You won't see it much though if he is always glued to a gameboy or Tv... or whatever..) Anyhoo... I'm ready to tackle this monster (the ODD! :lol: ) And I would like to see a professional myself to learn how to deal with these behaviors. Thanks!

 

thank you too for the "Explosive Child" tip... I'll look into getting a copy.

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At the time of diagnosis, they believed ADHD and bipolar as well, but wanted to wait and see (the doctor that is). I myself have wondered about aspergers. We have called and talked about this with his mom so many times, but she cries and claims she just doesn't see this at her house. (You won't see it much though if he is always glued to a gameboy or Tv... or whatever..) Anyhoo... I'm ready to tackle this monster (the ODD! :lol: ) And I would like to see a professional myself to learn how to deal with these behaviors. Thanks!

 

thank you too for the "Explosive Child" tip... I'll look into getting a copy.

As you probably already know, Aspergers is one of the higher functioning levels on the Autism Spectrum.

I am in a similar situation in regards to my childrens mother. I am the physical custodian and anytime something of concern is brought to her attention it seems that it only happens when the kids are with me. Nothing adverse or out of the ordinary ever happens when they are with her. Yeah right!!!

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At the time of diagnosis, they believed ADHD and bipolar as well, but wanted to wait and see (the doctor that is). I myself have wondered about aspergers. We have called and talked about this with his mom so many times, but she cries and claims she just doesn't see this at her house. (You won't see it much though if he is always glued to a gameboy or Tv... or whatever..) Anyhoo... I'm ready to tackle this monster (the ODD! :lol: ) And I would like to see a professional myself to learn how to deal with these behaviors. Thanks!

 

thank you too for the "Explosive Child" tip... I'll look into getting a copy.

 

 

I have a copy of the book you are more than welcome to check out from our lending library. I know where to find you.. would you like for me to bring it to you next week? :)

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Buy a belt?

 

 

 

Nah, I am kidding, bad joke, I know... Good Luck an God Bless.

I swear this is what I ALWAYS said before I had my son. Little did I know I would end up with a kid that would test every ounce of patience and sanity God blessed me with :wacko: It is a very very hard road, I am dealing with a child that is too young to be diagnosed with ODD, but he has been seen by an autism specialist and developmental pediatrician which said he "could" be on the spectrum but she doubted it, but he has apraxia, which is a language delay that feeds into his behavior issues. I have often wondered about ODD with him, but, there again, can you imagine how frustrated you would be if you couldnt communicate with the world and get out what you wanted to get out????? Like I said, I sympathize with you, but I know my son, the age he is and the language delay he has, therapy outside of what he has now, i.e. therapist, would not help him now. Youll get through it, I have no advice for you, but wanted to post to let you know, you are not alone in this battle. :wub:

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I wrote a very lengthy research paper on ODD when I was working on my master's degree. I have come across multiple students with this diagosis (which is not a special ed issue, btw) and I only truely believe that 1 of those students was accurately diagnosed. It's a cop-out disagonsis for bad parenting....the ADD of the 21st century. Do I believe it exists? Yes....but not at the level that it's described.

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I was wondering if there were other parents out there dealing with an Oppositional Defiant Disorder child. My 8 year old stepson has this disorder and although diagnosed, his mother has done nothing in the way of therapy... or maintenance of any kind. As the stepmother, and with my stepson living in Savannah, I need resources for myself on living with an ODD child. TIA!!!

 

 

Stop for a minute and analyze the name of this "disorder". Throw out the disorder and just look at Oppositional... defiant..All children are oppositional and defiant to some degree or another. It is how parents deal with children that determines whether or not it's a disorder. So, here we go to all the therapists and psychologists who invent a name and disorder for normal child behavior. The next phase in the "ADD", let's get more therapy and drugs for small children fad. A more appropriate name would be.. "lazy timid parents who fail to discipline their children disorder".

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Being a kid from a broken home is tough.

 

It sounds like you have issues with his mother. And the best thing you could do for your stepson is to set those issue aside. Remember that what you know about his mom comes mainly from your husband... who ended a relationship with her. I'm sure he has said negative things about her to you. (Like the fact that she allows this: - he is always glued to a gameboy or Tv... or whatever.) I know it is hard being a stepmom. Hang in there. You sound like you really want to improve this situation and I am willing to bet you will do it.

 

 

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Stop for a minute and analyze the name of this "disorder". Throw out the disorder and just look at Oppositional... defiant..All children are oppositional and defiant to some degree or another. It is how parents deal with children that determines whether or not it's a disorder. So, here we go to all the therapists and psychologists who invent a name and disorder for normal child behavior. The next phase in the "ADD", let's get more therapy and drugs for small children fad. A more appropriate name would be.. "lazy timid parents who fail to discipline their children disorder".

If I said what I really wanted to say regarding your statement, I would be banned from this wonderful land of PCOM. So, I will bite my tongue and walk out of this thread.

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If I said what I really wanted to say regarding your statement, I would be banned from this wonderful land of PCOM. So, I will bite my tongue and walk out of this thread.

Oops!! Maybe next time I should remember to be more politically correct and sensitive before stating the obvious...

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Oops!! Maybe next time I should remember to be more politically correct and sensitive before stating the obvious...

 

It has nothing to do with political correctness. It has to do with you talking out of your ass about a subject you obviously know very little about.

 

ODD has no neurobiological component, and is often a stand-in diagnosis when a doctor (who, by the way, looks at the parenting of the child as part of the process) has no organic cause to explain the behavior. So, on that part you are partially right, as WFAL stated, ODD is often thrown around when it is not the actual issue.

 

However, ADD is neurobiological, which is why giving an ADD child a stimulant actually calms them and helps them focus. Give a non-ADD child that same stimulant and you'll be calling the PD to help you peel them off the wall. Conversely, if you give a bipolar child a stimulant, it often causes psychosis and extremely violent/defiant behavior. Doctors are partially to blame if they do not look at the entire history of the child and are just trying to give a kid a quick fix. Many kids who are labeled ODD are actually bipolar, but on the wrong medications. Finding the right medication for a child with a neurobiological disorder is key.

 

It's sad to me that the stigma of mental illness is so extreme (esp. in certain communities). Mental illness is just as real in children as it is in adults, and these children and parents need help, not condemnation.

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I was wondering if there were other parents out there dealing with an Oppositional Defiant Disorder child. My 8 year old stepson has this disorder and although diagnosed, his mother has done nothing in the way of therapy... or maintenance of any kind. As the stepmother, and with my stepson living in Savannah, I need resources for myself on living with an ODD child. TIA!!!

 

 

Just make sure you keep yourself in check. You are new to him and he may be trying to figure you out. Stay calm and try to be aware of your actions.

 

 

 

If possible give his mother some slack, she may be as clueless as you. Best wishes with situation.

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It has nothing to do with political correctness. It has to do with you talking out of your ass about a subject you obviously know very little about.

 

ODD has no neurobiological component, and is often a stand-in diagnosis when a doctor (who, by the way, looks at the parenting of the child as part of the process) has no organic cause to explain the behavior. So, on that part you are partially right, as WFAL stated, ODD is often thrown around when it is not the actual issue.

 

However, ADD is neurobiological, which is why giving an ADD child a stimulant actually calms them and helps them focus. Give a non-ADD child that same stimulant and you'll be calling the PD to help you peel them off the wall. Conversely, if you give a bipolar child a stimulant, it often causes psychosis and extremely violent/defiant behavior. Doctors are partially to blame if they do not look at the entire history of the child and are just trying to give a kid a quick fix. Many kids who are labeled ODD are actually bipolar, but on the wrong medications. Finding the right medication for a child with a neurobiological disorder is key.

 

It's sad to me that the stigma of mental illness is so extreme (esp. in certain communities). Mental illness is just as real in children as it is in adults, and these children and parents need help, not condemnation.

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

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I think 8yo is WAY too early to diagnose most children with anything more than developmental type disorders. Bipolar has become the Diagnosis Du Jour. And it makes me angry to see it thrown out so easily. Same with other diagnoses such as ODD. And the ADHD diagnosis, while age appropriate, is not the answer to every child with a lot of energy. You have to really examine the behavior across various settings. behavioral disorders need to be managed and therapy included, but such a diagnosis in a child that young is usually inappropriate. It concerns me that they are tossing it out as though it was nothing.

 

The therapy needs to include behavioral therapy and parenting skills. The parents have to be willing to do the work to help their child and not settle for a little therapy and pills. A good therapist can usually help the parent develop a tool box of skills to use at home to work with their child and improve the behavior. Working an hour here and there with a therapist isn't going to undo what the child and their family has spent years developing. No, it isn't always lack of parenting, but it is often exacerbated by ineffective parenting. Even parents with the best intentions may need to learn better skills to manage a child with behavior issues.

 

The kids I see diagnosed with this disorder often (not always) have many of the following commonalities:

  • Divorced or otherwise separated parents
  • History of violence in the home
  • Inconsistent parenting (either from parents who change the rules on a whim, or from floating from home to home where rules change all the time)
  • Possible abuse history
  • Overindulgent parents (who give in all the time)
  • Lack of self-control management skills
  • Parent with history of mental disorder (could be childhood ADHD, or adult Bipolar, or anything in between)

These are not the defining factors, but they do tend to reappear over and over. But regardless of these things, 8yo is way young for this diagnosis. And I myself am working with a child who has some control issues, and I have asked the mother to start with checking his blood sugar level to see if he might have an insulin issue which may cause some of the outbursts. Sometimes these things can have a real medical cause and not just a parenting issue or a mental disorder.

ETA: A lot of these diagnoses are given to make it possible to bill for the service. Doesn't make it right, but it could be the answer to why they are giving these out so freely. A child needs the services, and without these types of diagnosis, the services are not covered.

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I think 8yo is WAY too early to diagnose most children with anything more than developmental type disorders. Bipolar has become the Diagnosis Du Jour. And it makes me angry to see it thrown out so easily. Same with other diagnoses such as ODD. And the ADHD diagnosis, while age appropriate, is not the answer to every child with a lot of energy. You have to really examine the behavior across various settings. behavioral disorders need to be managed and therapy included, but such a diagnosis in a child that young is usually inappropriate. It concerns me that they are tossing it out as though it was nothing.

 

The therapy needs to include behavioral therapy and parenting skills. The parents have to be willing to do the work to help their child and not settle for a little therapy and pills. A good therapist can usually help the parent develop a tool box of skills to use at home to work with their child and improve the behavior. Working an hour here and there with a therapist isn't going to undo what the child and their family has spent years developing. No, it isn't always lack of parenting, but it is often exacerbated by ineffective parenting. Even parents with the best intentions may need to learn better skills to manage a child with behavior issues.

 

The kids I see diagnosed with this disorder often (not always) have many of the following commonalities:

  • Divorced or otherwise separated parents
  • History of violence in the home
  • Inconsistent parenting (either from parents who change the rules on a whim, or from floating from home to home where rules change all the time)
  • Possible abuse history
  • Overindulgent parents (who give in all the time)
  • Lack of self-control management skills
  • Parent with history of mental disorder (could be childhood ADHD, or adult Bipolar, or anything in between)

These are not the defining factors, but they do tend to reappear over and over. But regardless of these things, 8yo is way young for this diagnosis. And I myself am working with a child who has some control issues, and I have asked the mother to start with checking his blood sugar level to see if he might have an insulin issue which may cause some of the outbursts. Sometimes these things can have a real medical cause and not just a parenting issue or a mental disorder.

ETA: A lot of these diagnoses are given to make it possible to bill for the service. Doesn't make it right, but it could be the answer to why they are giving these out so freely. A child needs the services, and without these types of diagnosis, the services are not covered.

 

In my experience, the bipolar diagnosis is not handled lightly by the psychiatrists in this area. Unless there is a marked family history (since BP has such a huge genetic component), many doctors will not address it as a possibility without a great deal of history-taking, observations, blood-work, medical testing, and ultimately trials of low-dose meds.

 

The sad part of that is that bipolar is absolutely a real mental illness, and the idea that it can't affect children is erroneous (and egregious when you take into account the number of kids who are lost by the time they reach adolescence, where it can be impossible to get them back under control). The statistics on suicide in bipolar children and teenagers is beyond alarming-- "Estimates vary but the suicide rate in untreated bipolar disorder is 30 to 60 times higher than that of the general population" (CABF.org--an excellent site for finding research, education information, and support).

 

I think we walk a fine line nowadays between saying that mental illnesses are overdiagnosed and dismissing inappropriate behavior as just poor parenting. Having a great deal of experience working with bipolar children, and writing my M.Ed thesis on the topic, I can say that if a child is truly bipolar there is no doubt to the people who work with him or her. Yet, you have so-called 'experts' saying that it's not a real illness, which not only perpetuates the stigma, but makes parents second-guess giving their children medication that could ultimately, for a bipolar child, save their life (like Evan's Story on HBO).

 

I think this has been a great discussion, and I hope that parents who are undergoing the stress and heartbreak of having a child with any one of the alphabet disorders are able to find information and help from it.

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I wrote a very lengthy research paper on ODD when I was working on my master's degree. I have come across multiple students with this diagosis (which is not a special ed issue, btw) and I only truely believe that 1 of those students was accurately diagnosed. It's a cop-out disagonsis for bad parenting....the ADD of the 21st century. Do I believe it exists? Yes....but not at the level that it's described.

 

I meant to come back to this ;-) My own master's degree thesis was on working with bipolar children in the classroom. A lot of the research I used dealt with ODD, and I was amazed at the number of ODD diagnoses given out, sometimes in kids as young as 4, because everyone knows that a 4 year-old is anything but defiant.

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I have definitely worked with children who have Bipolar, but I have worked with many more who have the diagnosis and it is not accurate. It drives me nuts! Bipolar is not a child pitching fits sometimes, nor is it the normal teenage mood swings. Real bipolar is a lot more severe and lasts more than 1/2 a day between mood swings. Real bipolar swings are not a daily occurrence, they are weeks or months at a time.

 

Sadly though, many children (and adults!) think that the diagnosis of Bipolar means they have a license to act out and pitch fits. After all, they are diagnosed as having mood swings, so if they act out, then it is okay. While in reality, if someone has Bipolar and has a mood swing, they are going to be noticeably depressed for several weeks or more, and then normal for several weeks or months, then bouncing off the wall for a few weeks, then the cycle repeats. It is NOT "I was depressed this morning, and manic at lunch, and normal at dinner, then depressed at bedtime."

 

I have been working with this population for years. I see the real cases and I see the players. Just make sure the diagnosis is completely accurate, not just good for the moment.

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I have definitely worked with children who have Bipolar, but I have worked with many more who have the diagnosis and it is not accurate. It drives me nuts! Bipolar is not a child pitching fits sometimes, nor is it the normal teenage mood swings. Real bipolar is a lot more severe and lasts more than 1/2 a day between mood swings. Real bipolar swings are not a daily occurrence, they are weeks or months at a time.

 

Sadly though, many children (and adults!) think that the diagnosis of Bipolar means they have a license to act out and pitch fits. After all, they are diagnosed as having mood swings, so if they act out, then it is okay. While in reality, if someone has Bipolar and has a mood swing, they are going to be noticeably depressed for several weeks or more, and then normal for several weeks or months, then bouncing off the wall for a few weeks, then the cycle repeats. It is NOT "I was depressed this morning, and manic at lunch, and normal at dinner, then depressed at bedtime."

 

I have been working with this population for years. I see the real cases and I see the players. Just make sure the diagnosis is completely accurate, not just good for the moment.

 

I think the term 'depressed' has blurred the line between real mental illness and situational sadness for society at large.

 

As for bipolar children, like I said, if a child is actually bipolar there is no doubt in the mind of the people who work with them (if they are aware of what they are looking for). I guess that I've been lucky in as much as the doctors and therapists that I've worked with on this subject were very clear on what constitutes bipolar (two of them having worked under Papolos), because I've never heard or seen someone who actually knows what they are talking about refer to a temper tantrum as 'bipolar'. Working with educators, however, I have seen the idea that a bipolar child is simply a child who is moody. That is certainly not the case.

 

One thing I do want to add, though, is that what you describe of being depressed, manic, normal, manic, depressed within 24 hours can absolutely happen in children that rapid-cycle. While this isn't a large percentage of the bipolar population, it is certainly a real phenonmenon, though it is nothing as simple as a 'moody' child. Rapid-cycling children can be the most difficult to treat, because the doctor must walk the line between mania and depression. Thankfully, some of the newer mood-stabilizers have made great progress, but rapid-cycling children are still out there.

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Real rapid cycling to THAT level is extremely rare. Rapid cycling means they have 4 mood swings within a 12 month period, not a 12 hour period. And it usually occurs years into the disorder. Mainly happens to adult women, but can happen in other populations. The rate of occurrence of rapid cycling is about 5-15% of the Bipolar population. As for the extreme cycling, it is much rarer.

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Stop for a minute and analyze the name of this "disorder". Throw out the disorder and just look at Oppositional... defiant..All children are oppositional and defiant to some degree or another. It is how parents deal with children that determines whether or not it's a disorder. So, here we go to all the therapists and psychologists who invent a name and disorder for normal child behavior. The next phase in the "ADD", let's get more therapy and drugs for small children fad. A more appropriate name would be.. "lazy timid parents who fail to discipline their children disorder".

 

Little Dis jr. has been diagnosed with ADHD & ODD. I will tell you it is no cop out or lazines on our part. I was raised by 2 German parents. I am quite well associated with corpral punishment as well as reward, punishment and denial corrective tactics. I could literally beat Dis jr. to within an inch of his life and it would make no difference. He is 7 now. We have been working on this since pre-K. We see a therapist regularly. We are learning what sets him off and try to avoid those situations. The worst thing is that when he takes a notion to fill in the blank nothing is going to stop him, in his mind. We can and do stop him from things but you are looking for a knock down drag out of gargantuine proportions. For instance... He has taken a notion, just because, that he needs /wants a new 2009 Hess vehicle for Christmas. That in itself is not bad or a problem. The problem begins like last night. He stated he wanted this. OK son, we will tell it to SANTA. With most children it is then over as long as you tell them when and how to accomplish their goal. Not here. He proceeds with, "no today". Son it is Thanksgiving evening and I am not going out to get one now. There are only 2 Hess stations in the area and they are out I-20 on liberty Rd. and North of Cartersville on I-75. We are not going. He then gets all pouty and keeps coming back to me stating that he is mad at me because I will not take him. This goes on for about 2 hours. Did I mention the fact that ODD children will go beyond any normal reason at pushing your patience and that WE DO STICK TO OUR GUNS? So we convince him that the right /best thing to do is write Santa a letter. We will do this when we get home. No now. Back and forth a few times. It seems as though this is a big deal with him but rather minor to us. It is not worth the fight. So we write the letter. Well he is happy now but wants to mail it. Later. No now. Ok as ludicrous as it sounds he thinks that the faster the letter gets mailed, the faster Santa will bring it. No son that is not the case, mail will not run until tomorrow. So... It took 7 adults all stating the same thing, and yes he did poll each and every one of them to convince him that this was truly the case. He did manage to accept this, for now. When we got home he decided again that it was now time to mail the letter. Son, it is late and cold outside. I AM NOT GOING out tonight to put it im the mailbox when I can do it in the morning when I leave for work. Not good enough. I should now explain that one of his "obssesions" is clothing. We have worked long and hard to get him to wear socks and shoes, pants and shirt to school. I have had school staff call me when it is in the teens outside and ask me to bring his shorts to school when I forced him to wear pants. Yes we know the weather and we promise not to call DEFACS, but please bring them. I could write a 50 page report on clothing issues alone. Getting back to the point. He had already put on his shorts and removed all other clothing. Son I am not going to go out there. If you feel that strongly about it YOU go do it. He goes out as is. Wife is now mad at me for letting him go out that way. I simply tell her, he was being unreasonable. He needs to learn that there is a price to pay for things. And he was quite cold when he got back in. That is HIS CHOICE and OWN FAULT. I have taken to letting the school of "hard knocks" be his teacher although I do it in a controlled manner. Like the other day when he got mad at me for not letting him assemble his new airplane in the truck. He got angry even thogh I tried to be reasonable and explained that it was assembled with screws. He could not do that and I would be driving, so no. Again, not good enough. So he pouts as my daughter and I walk to the truck. He would stand and pout until we got about 10 yards in front of him and then run to catch up. Well the 3rd time he was really mad. He decided to charge me like a football tackle. He seems to have no concept of the size inequalities of life, which given his small size, really play against his attitude. I saw him coming and simply stopped, stepped slightly backwards into him and he went flying backwards. I do not consider it mean. He was being mean an intended to hurt me and nothing I said would matter to him anyway. He landed flat on his tailbone and yes he bruised it. I even further aggravated it by spanking him right there. I made my point and he did not ask again. And I hope that he considers what happened then, in the future when he thinks about doing this again.

 

All that to say and show that, we do not just give in. We punish. We reward. We teach. But always we battle with his unreasonable demands. It is not a case of a spoiled child. He has been spoiled by rewards, much to my own anger. He no longer sees them as a reward but an entitlement. Yes he was good at school all week. And now it is "payday". Now!! Not later. So I have changed it up. I now give him $5 / week and am trying to teach him the value of "waiting". $5 does not buy much but if he waits for next week he will have $10 and that works much better.

 

So Highcreek, If you really believe this is all bullcrap, let me be the first to volunteer my son to you for a week or two after school only even. I will even bring his meds. I will watch as you go insane and I will make sure that you do not harm him because YOU WILL WANT TO! What do you say? Do we have a deal?

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Real rapid cycling to THAT level is extremely rare. Rapid cycling means they have 4 mood swings within a 12 month period, not a 12 hour period. And it usually occurs years into the disorder. Mainly happens to adult women, but can happen in other populations. The rate of occurrence of rapid cycling is about 5-15% of the Bipolar population. As for the extreme cycling, it is much rarer.

 

Just because it's rare doesn't make it any less real to the child it is happening to ;)

 

And actually, recent research is showing that the ultra-rapid cycling may be a hallmark of early-onset pediatric bipolar disorder, making it ever more necessary for the new DSM being released to modify the diagnosis of EO BP and have its own set of criteria. Most children with bipolar disorder do not qualify for the diagnosis under the incredibly outdated DSM-IV, making modifications way overdue and necessary.

 

Good discussion, PM.

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I could literally beat Dis jr. to within an inch of his life and it would make no difference.

I swear it sounds like you are writing about my family experiences :blink:

 

I totally get it and live it every day, of every week, of every month, of every year.

 

Mr Dis :drinks: we need it!

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No next time just try not to be so obviously ignorant :)

 

They still have not responded to my offer. I thought they new all about "parenting". I was really kind of hoping that they could set little Dis jr. straight for me since I was such a poor parent with no skills and just letting him run wild in the streets. Oh well, they musta got skeerd. :ph34r: :rofl:

 

I already gave him his meds and he had breakfast... What about today highcreek?

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