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Here's Something That Perplexes Me


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#1 leslie71

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 09:53 AM

Saw a news story this morning about a couple whose twin boys were born with heart problems that resulted in them needing heart transplants. One got the heart transplant, and the other ended up improving enough that they don't think he needs a transplant right now.

Their explanation for this is that God/their faith in God helped the one boy to get better.

If that's the case, was it not God who also created the heart defects to begin with?

Why is it he gets credit for the good stuff, but not blamed for the bad?

This is one of my most fundamental issues with religion.

#2 Bumplett

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:02 AM

I think that it's interesting that you haven't gotten an answer from anyone yet.....
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#3 godawgs210

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:08 AM

Everything that happens is part of HIS plan.

#4 nphswolfpack1

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:08 AM

QUOTE (Bumplett @ May 26 2006, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think that it's interesting that you haven't gotten an answer from anyone yet.....

let's go back to the beginning. God created perfection in the garden of eden with Adam and eve.

Eve was deceived and all of man "fell", and was therefore separated from God.

Evil has always existed, so has imperfection. When someone gives credit to God for the good things, they must also be in the place to accept the bad things as well. Not that God "gave" these boys their heart condition, but that for some unknown reason to us, that was what happened.

My wife and I had a miscarraige in the 12th week a couple years ago, and we did not "blame" God for that. We simple had to accept that this was part of His plan for our life. only a few months later we were pregnant again with our now healthy son. I look forward to the fact that I will see my unborn child when I die, but I also now have a son who would not exist if we hadn't had the miscarraige.

My son is here for a reason and I may never know why, but I do know that god has a bigger plan than what I can ever try to figure out.

There are two forces at work in the world, God who is good, and Satan who is evil. The really cool part is that we already know how the story ends. Good wins! The bad part is that until then, humans are still dealing with the Original mistake. That original mistake was eating from the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil." When we think we are bigger, better, or smarter than the one that created us, that is when the problems begin.

#5 leslie71

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:09 AM

QUOTE (Bumplett @ May 26 2006, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think that it's interesting that you haven't gotten an answer from anyone yet.....



Indeed.

QUOTE (Landscaper @ May 26 2006, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
let's go back to the beginning. God created perfection in the garden of eden with Adam and eve.

Eve was deceived and all of man "fell", and was therefore separated from God.

Evil has always existed, so has imperfection. When someone gives credit to God for the good things, they must also be in the place to accept the bad things as well. Not that God "gave" these boys their heart condition, but that for some unknown reason to us, that was what happened.

My wife and I had a miscarraige in the 12th week a couple years ago, and we did not "blame" God for that. We simple had to accept that this was part of His plan for our life. only a few months later we were pregnant again with our now healthy son. I look forward to the fact that I will see my unborn child when I die, but I also now have a son who would not exist if we hadn't had the miscarraige.

My son is here for a reason and I may never know why, but I do know that god has a bigger plan than what I can ever try to figure out.

There are two forces at work in the world, God who is good, and Satan who is evil. The really cool part is that we already know how the story ends. Good wins! The bad part is that until then, humans are still dealing with the Original mistake. That original mistake was eating from the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil." When we think we are bigger, better, or smarter than the one that created us, that is when the problems begin.



mmmmmmmmm ok

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#6 St. GTJacket

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:09 AM

I look at it as everything happens for a reason. A core belief of Christianity is to praise God in everything.

1 Thessalonians 5: 16-18
(16) Rejoice always. (17) Pray without ceasing. (18) In everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus toward you.

God created everything including the child with the heart defect and the one that had the transplant. Why did God choose to do it this way? Those are answers we will never understand on earth. This is where faith comes in. Realizing that God created everything with a purpose and we as humans cannot comprehend the knowledge that God has.

That's not to say the parents never questioned why their one child had to go through with the transplant. I think that's human and expected.

Children are a gift from God and they ultimately belong to him. We have merely been entrusted wtih their care for as long as he sees fit.

Edited by GTJacket, 26 May 2006 - 10:11 AM.

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#7 nphswolfpack1

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:12 AM

I have not posted much on this site, but read a lot. I have seen the maturity of some here and I would expect nothing different at this point. You may not agree with me, but to reply with MMMMMMMMMM ok when the post contains the story of the death of an unborn child, I now add insensitivity to immaturity. (directed at Lesley71, not the majority of you)

Edited by Landscaper, 26 May 2006 - 10:13 AM.


#8 Tahoe

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:12 AM

Never, Never, Never question God and his works.

You could ask the same question like why did God allow Hurricane Katrina to do the damage that it did?

My suggestion - Find a church on Sunday, talk with the preacher before or after church. He will show you scripture in the Bible to clarify this question for you.

I invite you to Northside Baptist Church this Sunday. Brother Curtis Turner is the preacher. It is located on Highway 61 N, right across from where you turn to go to Paulding Meadows. At the courthouse in Dallas, go Highway 61N towards Cartersville. Go about 2 miles turn left.
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"Non-Liberal" because not everyone can be on welfare...edited at the request of p.com police


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#9 leslie71

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:12 AM

QUOTE (Landscaper @ May 26 2006, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have not posted much on this site, but read a lot. I have seen the maturity of those here and I would expect nothing different at this point. You may not agree with me, but to reply with MMMMMMMMMM ok



Sorry for your loss, truly. But the rest of your post just doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

#10 St. GTJacket

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:14 AM

QUOTE (Tahoe @ May 26 2006, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Never, Never, Never question God and his works.

You could ask the same question like why did God allow Hurricane Katrina to do the damage that it did?

My suggestion - Find a church on Sunday, talk with the preacher before or after church. He will show you scripture in the Bible to clarify this question for you.

I invite you to Northside Baptist Church this Sunday. Brother Curtis Turner is the preacher. It is located on Highway 61 N, right across from where you turn to go to Paulding Meadows. At the courthouse in Dallas, go Highway 61N towards Cartersville. Go about 2 miles turn left.



I suppose I differ with you there. I think it's human to question and seek answers. How else will your faith grow?
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#11 leslie71

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:14 AM

QUOTE (Tahoe @ May 26 2006, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Never, Never, Never question God and his works.

You could ask the same question like why did God allow Hurricane Katrina to do the damage that it did?

My suggestion - Find a church on Sunday, talk with the preacher before or after church. He will show you scripture in the Bible to clarify this question for you.

I invite you to Northside Baptist Church this Sunday. Brother Curtis Turner is the preacher. It is located on Highway 61 N, right across from where you turn to go to Paulding Meadows. At the courthouse in Dallas, go Highway 61N towards Cartersville. Go about 2 miles turn left.



I've already spent enough time in church to last me a lifetime. Thanks.

wink.gif

Scripture doesn't clarify jack for me. It often compounds my disbelief.

#12 nphswolfpack1

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:15 AM

QUOTE (Lesley71 @ May 26 2006, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry for your loss, truly. But the rest of your post just doesn't make a lick of sense to me.


it's basically the story of Genesis. Someone else posted to find a pastor or other person you trust to talk to about it. I would suggest this also. Maybe someone else can make it more clear.

#13 Don't Ask Why

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:17 AM

QUOTE (Lesley71 @ May 26 2006, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Saw a news story this morning about a couple whose twin boys were born with heart problems that resulted in them needing heart transplants. One got the heart transplant, and the other ended up improving enough that they don't think he needs a transplant right now.

Their explanation for this is that God/their faith in God helped the one boy to get better.

If that's the case, was it not God who also created the heart defects to begin with?

Why is it he gets credit for the good stuff, but not blamed for the bad?

This is one of my most fundamental issues with religion.

I have always thought the same thing..........

My thought would be that sometime in the new heart kid, they will use that to help someone else and the OK heart kid is of course on a different journey.

I never blame God or not give him credit in bad situations, well bad in our eyes.

Great observation!!
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#14 leslie71

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:18 AM

If everything is part of his plan, then why don't people get angry with the bad parts of his plan as much as they praise the good parts?

#15 nphswolfpack1

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:25 AM

QUOTE (Lesley71 @ May 26 2006, 11:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If everything is part of his plan, then why don't people get angry with the bad parts of his plan as much as they praise the good parts?



That's the faith part, there are times I am angry with God, and I go through those periods of frustration, but once I'm done going through that part, I always come back to my faith in HIM, and my belief that he is ultimatly in control. Not easy to do all the time, but that is how your faith grows.

does this make sense?

#16 Don't Ask Why

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:26 AM

QUOTE (Lesley71 @ May 26 2006, 11:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If everything is part of his plan, then why don't people get angry with the bad parts of his plan as much as they praise the good parts?

I think because we praise the good that comes from the bad..


I can't praise Jeremy's slip now, because I don't know what it's gonna do good for...yet..


You never know he could save someone from something oneday because of the bad he did this week unsure.gif

Then that person return the good later rolleyes.gif

We can only hope
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#17 leslie71

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:26 AM

QUOTE (Landscaper @ May 26 2006, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's the faith part, there are times I am angry with God, and I go through those periods of frustration, but once I'm done going through that part, I always come back to my faith in HIM, and my belief that he is ultimatly in control. Not easy to do all the time, but that is how your faith grows.

does this make sense?



No, as I have no faith in anything other than myself.

#18 Tahoe

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:28 AM

QUOTE (Lesley71 @ May 26 2006, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've already spent enough time in church to last me a lifetime. Thanks.

wink.gif

Scripture doesn't clarify jack for me. It often compounds my disbelief.



You know, I was like that at one time. My parents had me in church Sunday, Sunday night, Wednesday night and revivals. I was saved at 9 years old and still know I am saved today and going to Heaven when I die. They also sent me to a Christian school that I graduated from. HATED THAT!

When I got out of school, I had this attitude that I have had church pushed down my throat so now I am an "ADULT" I am not going anymore.

Well, I am 34 years old and have realized that NOW not having God in my life and in my kids life is a tremendous LOSS. When things go bad everybody turns to praying to God. He never turns his back on us even though we do turn our back on Him.

Please don't say that you have spent enough time in church to last you a lifetime. One day you will realize that you can't get enough of it. Take it from me, even though I still have problems in my life, I can find alot more comfort from God now than when I had the atttitude that I had heard enough to last me a lifetime.

Believe me.... I was one of those people. Give it a chance, the invitation is still open Sunday. You won't be disapponited. smile.gif

#19 Seeker

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:29 AM

QUOTE (Lesley71 @ May 26 2006, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Saw a news story this morning about a couple whose twin boys were born with heart problems that resulted in them needing heart transplants. One got the heart transplant, and the other ended up improving enough that they don't think he needs a transplant right now.

Their explanation for this is that God/their faith in God helped the one boy to get better.

If that's the case, was it not God who also created the heart defects to begin with?

Why is it he gets credit for the good stuff, but not blamed for the bad?

This is one of my most fundamental issues with religion.

I think that each is given different challenges that, in this case, at least are the results of genetic defects and living in an imperfect world. I believe that the only people who had perfect genetics where Adam and Eve. After their disobedience, they were ejected from Eden, a perfect paradise. At that time, their DNA came under influences that were imperfect. To explain just one influence, it has been researched how animal offspring develop differently according to which pole of a magnet they are exposed. (Magnetism and Its Effect on Living Systems by Rawls and Davis) This suggests that there must be a state of perfection or absolute balance for the body to be perfect. Due to my research in regards to health, it is my belief that, while God is in control, He has allowed man to live in the imperfect world and so man has become imperfect, even down to his DNA and the genetic codes of his offspring. That is not to say the the sins of the parents are the cause, but the sins of mankind in general.
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#20 St. GTJacket

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:29 AM

QUOTE (Lesley71 @ May 26 2006, 11:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If everything is part of his plan, then why don't people get angry with the bad parts of his plan as much as they praise the good parts?



I think people do get angry. It's normal and natural. You go through the stage of being furious but you eventually take a step back and look at the situation and move forward. Staying angry will only harm you in the long run. A lot of times, the very thing that made you so furious and hurt, after giving it some time, will teach you a lesson and prepare you for something else in life.
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#21 leslie71

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:30 AM

QUOTE (Tahoe @ May 26 2006, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know, I was like that at one time. My parents had me in church Sunday, Sunday night, Wednesday night and revivals. I was saved at 9 years old and still know I am saved today and going to Heaven when I die. They also sent me to a Christian school that I graduated from. HATED THAT!

When I got out of school, I had this attitude that I have had church pushed down my throat so now I am an "ADULT" I am not going anymore.

Well, I am 34 years old and have realized that NOW not having God in my life and in my kids life is a tremendous LOSS. When things go bad everybody turns to praying to God. He never turns his back on us even though we do turn our back on Him.

Please don't say that you have spent enough time in church to last you a lifetime. One day you will realize that you can't get enough of it. Take it from me, even though I still have problems in my life, I can find alot more comfort from God now than when I had the atttitude that I had heard enough to last me a lifetime.

Believe me.... I was one of those people. Give it a chance, the invitation is still open Sunday. You won't be disapponited. smile.gif



I have spent enough time in church to last me a lifetime. I will never return unless it's for one of my parents' funerals.

#22 Tahoe

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:34 AM

QUOTE (GTJacket @ May 26 2006, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I suppose I differ with you there. I think it's human to question and seek answers. How else will your faith grow?



Good point. It is human, but these that are questioning don't understand about having faith in God. If they did, they would not be asking the questions that they are on paulding.com. Please explain in more detail so that they will understand your feelings so that maybe you can be a witness to them. smile.gif
"Obama is not a Leader, he is a Ruler." Neal Bortz

Every trial we face is a trial of our Faith.
God will close your walls in to make you look to Him
.



"Non-Liberal" because not everyone can be on welfare...edited at the request of p.com police


If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand. óMilton Friedman

#23 St. GTJacket

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:36 AM

QUOTE (Tahoe @ May 26 2006, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good point. It is human, but these that are questioning don't understand about having faith in God. If they did, they would not be asking the questions that they are on paulding.com. Please explain in more detail so that they will understand your feelings so that maybe you can be a witness to them. smile.gif



That reply was to someone who said NEVER NEVER NEVER question God. Not to the one starting this topic.
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#24 Tahoe

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:37 AM

QUOTE (Lesley71 @ May 26 2006, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have spent enough time in church to last me a lifetime. I will never return unless it's for one of my parents' funerals.



I'll say a prayer for you. Have a great holiday weekend! smile.gif

P.S. This is not at all meant to be sarcastic or ugly.
"Obama is not a Leader, he is a Ruler." Neal Bortz

Every trial we face is a trial of our Faith.
God will close your walls in to make you look to Him
.



"Non-Liberal" because not everyone can be on welfare...edited at the request of p.com police


If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand. óMilton Friedman

#25 leslie71

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:38 AM

QUOTE (Tahoe @ May 26 2006, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'll say a prayer for you. Have a great holiday weekend! smile.gif

P.S. This is not at all meant to be sarcastic or ugly.



whatever floats your boat!

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#26 ANG

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:42 AM

Just be patient. All questions will be answered in the end. We are not supposed to know all of the answers right now. smile.gif

And I have blamed God for the bad things that have happened in my life on more than one occasion. wink.gif

#27 St. GTJacket

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:44 AM

I have a question and it is in no way an attempt to bait or start an argument. I see posts on p.com frequently where people state they do not believe in the bible or anything else.

I understand that each is entitled to his/her belief. We all have a free will. Those who do not belive in Christ have asked those who do to explain why they believe what they believe.

I think Christians (myself included) for the most part do a very poor job of explaining this. Whether the case be a lack of knowledge or the inability to express ourselves or that we haven't explored why we believe what we do, whatever the reason we could use some work in this area.

I would like to ask those of you who do not believe why you don't. What is it about Christianity that just doesn't resonate with you? What has completely turned you off from Christianity.

So, why don't you believe it?
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#28 Seeker

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:46 AM

QUOTE (GTJacket @ May 26 2006, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a question and it is in no way an attempt to bait or start an argument. I see posts on p.com frequently where people state they do not believe in the bible or anything else.

I understand that each is entitled to his/her belief. We all have a free will. Those who do not belive in Christ have asked those who do to explain why they believe what they believe.

I think Christians (myself included) for the most part do a very poor job of explaining this. Whether the case be a lack of knowledge or the inability to express ourselves or that we haven't explored why we believe what we do, whatever the reason we could use some work in this area.

I would like to ask those of you who do not believe why you don't. What is it about Christianity that just doesn't resonate with you? What has completely turned you off from Christianity.

So, why don't you believe it?

Perhaps you should open another topic on this one. . . ?
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#29 Tahoe

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:47 AM

My replies, comments, views, experiences etc. are not being forced on anyone or compared to anyone. I am simply reading what the posts are and answering the questions to what I believe. I thought that was what Paulding.com was for.

I am not trying to be ugly, hurtful, sarcastic to anyone. I realize that you have to be very careful discussing this topic, but I am just expressing what I have learned as a Christian and continue to extend an invitation to visit my church on Sunday. No harm meant to anyone.

Take care, God Bless each person who views this. Have a great weekend! smile.gif
"Obama is not a Leader, he is a Ruler." Neal Bortz

Every trial we face is a trial of our Faith.
God will close your walls in to make you look to Him
.



"Non-Liberal" because not everyone can be on welfare...edited at the request of p.com police


If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand. óMilton Friedman

#30 smitty

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:52 AM

QUOTE (GTJacket @ May 26 2006, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a question and it is in no way an attempt to bait or start an argument. I see posts on p.com frequently where people state they do not believe in the bible or anything else.

I understand that each is entitled to his/her belief. We all have a free will. Those who do not belive in Christ have asked those who do to explain why they believe what they believe.

I think Christians (myself included) for the most part do a very poor job of explaining this. Whether the case be a lack of knowledge or the inability to express ourselves or that we haven't explored why we believe what we do, whatever the reason we could use some work in this area.

I would like to ask those of you who do not believe why you don't. What is it about Christianity that just doesn't resonate with you? What has completely turned you off from Christianity.

So, why don't you believe it?


The answers are unacceptable to believers.
My opinions do not reflect a command of reasoning but instead, reflect that reason

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#31 leslie71

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:53 AM

QUOTE (GTJacket @ May 26 2006, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a question and it is in no way an attempt to bait or start an argument. I see posts on p.com frequently where people state they do not believe in the bible or anything else.

I understand that each is entitled to his/her belief. We all have a free will. Those who do not belive in Christ have asked those who do to explain why they believe what they believe.

I think Christians (myself included) for the most part do a very poor job of explaining this. Whether the case be a lack of knowledge or the inability to express ourselves or that we haven't explored why we believe what we do, whatever the reason we could use some work in this area.

I would like to ask those of you who do not believe why you don't. What is it about Christianity that just doesn't resonate with you? What has completely turned you off from Christianity.

So, why don't you believe it?



I don't believe it because a great deal of it just seems crazy to me. It's just way too far-fetched. The things Jesus supposedly did....not possible in the world I know. Immaculate conception? Well, we all know how babies are made.

I have never experienced anything that made me think "wow, god must exist", and I think that if there really is an omniscient, omnipotent being up there, he would make it abundantly clear that he exists, PARTICULARLY to those such as myself, who are skeptical.

Plus, I'm not certain I'd even want to believe in a being that allows so much suffering among "his children" when it's within his power to stop it. Particularly the suffering of innocent children and animals.

I'm a seeing-is-believing kind of girl. SHOW ME, don't tell me.

#32 QOTSA

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 10:58 AM

The above, plus I don't believe that praying, attending church, tithing, whatever makes you a good person or guarantees you a spot in heaven (which I also don't believe in, btw).
You see my mule don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it...

#33 buttercup

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 11:07 AM

QUOTE (Tahoe @ May 26 2006, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I invite you to Northside Baptist Church this Sunday. Brother Curtis Turner is the preacher. It is located on Highway 61 N, right across from where you turn to go to Paulding Meadows. At the courthouse in Dallas, go Highway 61N towards Cartersville. Go about 2 miles turn left.



I also attend this church and I must say the minute I walk thru those doors the love for God in that church just pours out! I never have a dry eye when I go. wub.gif I just can't explain to someone who hasn't been there. That is my church and always will be.
Don't worry about tomm, today has it's own set of problems.

#34 Sporting life 88

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 11:16 AM

QUOTE (smitty @ May 26 2006, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The answers are unacceptable to believers.


I am a "believer" and I know it's not up to me to accept nor deny anyone's take on God. It just isn't my place.

QUOTE (Lesley71 @ May 26 2006, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't believe it because a great deal of it just seems crazy to me. It's just way too far-fetched. The things Jesus supposedly did....not possible in the world I know. Immaculate conception? Well, we all know how babies are made.

I have never experienced anything that made me think "wow, god must exist", and I think that if there really is an omniscient, omnipotent being up there, he would make it abundantly clear that he exists, PARTICULARLY to those such as myself, who are skeptical.

Plus, I'm not certain I'd even want to believe in a being that allows so much suffering among "his children" when it's within his power to stop it. Particularly the suffering of innocent children and animals.

I'm a seeing-is-believing kind of girl. SHOW ME, don't tell me.


Lesley, this is a message board. How can I show you anything? I can't --- except with words. And I know that I am not nearly as good as saying it as some.

Honestly, if you don't want to believe I don't think I can say anything that will change your mind.

Just to clear up a few things, I believe that it is perfectly acceptable to question God. He's big enough for your questions, but you have to be willing to handle His answers. He's also great enough to take our anger, dispair, pain and deepest heartbreak.

I went through a horrible time (one of the worst of my life) and people kept saying that God was going to make something good come from it. I was ticked off and screamed (a lot). . . No way in h*ll can God or anyone else make something good come from THAT!! And the truth is. . . nothing 'good' came from what happened, but I am a different person. I learned something that I couldn't have learned another way. And from that I have been able to give compassion from a place that must be God in me.

Was that God's will for me to hurt like that? No, it was man's stupidity.

I don't think I can explain this the way that it deserves. I hope you get some of the answers that you are seeking.

#35 gymdawgfan

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 11:17 AM

I have seen what the power of prayer can do personally. I attended church while growing up and then in college, I began to question my faith. I stopped going to church for a number of years. When my oldest daughter was born during a staph infection at the hospital (3 other babies in the nursery were also infected), a youth minister from a local church came in to pray for my daughter. He placed his hand on her tiny one and said a prayer for her healing and it brought tears to my eyes. The next day, the doctor said her blood test results were normal. He even ordered another set just to make sure. I firmly believed God healed my daughter.
Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot.

#36 Subby

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 11:21 AM

QUOTE (Tahoe @ May 26 2006, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know, I was like that at one time. My parents had me in church Sunday, Sunday night, Wednesday night and revivals. I was saved at 9 years old and still know I am saved today and going to Heaven when I die. They also sent me to a Christian school that I graduated from. HATED THAT!

When I got out of school, I had this attitude that I have had church pushed down my throat so now I am an "ADULT" I am not going anymore.

Well, I am 34 years old and have realized that NOW not having God in my life and in my kids life is a tremendous LOSS. When things go bad everybody turns to praying to God. He never turns his back on us even though we do turn our back on Him.

Please don't say that you have spent enough time in church to last you a lifetime. One day you will realize that you can't get enough of it. Take it from me, even though I still have problems in my life, I can find alot more comfort from God now than when I had the atttitude that I had heard enough to last me a lifetime.

Believe me.... I was one of those people. Give it a chance, the invitation is still open Sunday. You won't be disapponited. smile.gif


great testimony!! smile.gif

#37 PraiseThee

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 11:26 AM

QUOTE (Lesley71 @ May 26 2006, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't believe it because a great deal of it just seems crazy to me. It's just way too far-fetched. The things Jesus supposedly did....not possible in the world I know. Immaculate conception? Well, we all know how babies are made.

I have never experienced anything that made me think "wow, god must exist", and I think that if there really is an omniscient, omnipotent being up there, he would make it abundantly clear that he exists, PARTICULARLY to those such as myself, who are skeptical.

Plus, I'm not certain I'd even want to believe in a being that allows so much suffering among "his children" when it's within his power to stop it. Particularly the suffering of innocent children and animals.

I'm a seeing-is-believing kind of girl. SHOW ME, don't tell me.



=========
Okay I will post this although I have refrained from posting here again but with this topic, I have to share this as I posted it elsewhere and in me, God has spoken to witness what He has done for me for you to see since you stated to show me. Mind you, I went to church when I was about 7 years old and left after a few years. I am now 40 and went back to church on Christmas Eve 2004 and I have never looked back. God gave me a reason to go to Him and let me know that is what He wanted. Below, the first post is what happened, brief but to the point.

Much of this will be in my new book but in more detail than here but I feel I have to post what He has done for me and I feel it is necessary for all to see that in fact, Lord Jesus is real.

Some things have happened to me as a result of God giving me blessings to know that He is near always.

Before I came to Christ, I had a vivid dream shortly after I fell asleep. It was the result of allegations of my father abusing members of my family and others. I still remember the dream to this day as it is etched in my mind. This dream occurred about 1997.

The dream was this. I was walking up to a church. People were lined up and as they walked up the steps, a Pastor was there greeting each of them. As I approach and the Pastor held out his hand to shake my hand, he said, "You are troubled my son."

I woke up and cried for the longest time and uncontrollably. This was God speaking to me.

In the dream, although it did not play out the way the dream did, but here are some reasons it really did.

1. The steps. The first church I attend on Christmas Eve 2004, my first day, the church had steps to climb.

2. The Pastor although appeared as a man in the dream, was really God speaking to me.

3. This dream occurred a few months or so after I cut off my father from my life.

It was not until after I began church that I realized what the dream meant.

More evidence...

I asked God to grant just one word in tongues. Two weeks after or so, I spoke Heli Sadhe. Heli-Joseph's father's name.....Sadhe...the 18th letter of the Hebew Alphabet. There is an interesting thought of why these two words. One, Sadhe is Hebrew as God wanted me to know what the language is. The spoken Heli, since it is Jospeh's father's name and only stated I believe one time in the bible, a few months prior to speaking Heli, I began supporting the St. Joseph's Indian School.


More....
As my father was dying, I went to church on Ash Wednesday and cried. I kept asking God for forgiveness and to forgive my father. It had been 10 years since I spoke to my dad. God granted me a vision of my younger mother and father holding a baby and that baby was me. He granted the forgiveness. I spoke to my father to verbally state that a week before he died.

More...I asked God when this pain will end(why will be in the book), out of no where but the grace of God's hands, three of my long lost friends contacted me via email.

One thing to add....I became a Christian and accepted Jesus into my life on May 1, 2005. May 1 is usually called, May Day which in one interpetation, means help. Cool eh?

Well, there is some of the evidence.

Posted Image



"We cannot expect the Americans to jump from capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism until they suddenly awake to find they have Communism." - Soviet Leader Nikita Khrushchev, 1959


#38 SoapMom

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 11:30 AM

Great topic Lesley. I'm enjoying reading all of the replies. Thank you for a great subject to ponder. smile.gif
"The fool says in his heart: 'There is no God' (Psalm 14:1). There is, however, another type of fool, more dangerous and sure of himself, who says in his heart and proclaims to all the world: 'There is no God but mine'." ~Joseph Campbell

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#39 crankshaft

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 11:31 AM

QUOTE (Landscaper @ May 26 2006, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's the faith part, there are times I am angry with God, and I go through those periods of frustration, but once I'm done going through that part, I always come back to my faith in HIM, and my belief that he is ultimatly in control. Not easy to do all the time, but that is how your faith grows.

does this make sense?



leslie, nothing about God makes sense to you because you choose not to believe, a blind man in the bible
was blind from birth, Jesus healed him, people asked, whose faults was it for him being blind,
Jesus reply, noone, he was blind to bring honor and glory to ths Father's name, now, that don't make
any sense to you either, but, it does to, we, believers. i suspect that you are not sure of not really
believing in God, God's word is "foolishness" to the unbelievers but simple to the believers
do i get angry with GOD, CERTAINLY, he don't expect me to be perfect, i am just a sinner saved
by grace! i don't understand "why" bad things happen,but, i do know that when it happen to me, when
i come thru it, i always, can look back and say, i don't know how i would have made without God.
i, for one, could never get enough of church, it is my lifeline! it is as hard for me to understand, how,
you, get thru the day without God, as it is for you to understand how i couldn't do without God.
















j

#40 buttercup

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 11:31 AM

Thanks for sharing everyone.... wub.gif
Don't worry about tomm, today has it's own set of problems.




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