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#1 AEmom

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 07:30 PM

I have 2 boys and my youngest turned 2 in February. He started daycare when he was only a few months old. Any of you with kids in daycare know that these children learn at a very young age to get themselves to sleep. In fact, both of my children started sleeping through the night at just a few weeks old, and I have always put them in their bed and they go to sleep. Exceptions would be when they are sick.

I say all that because my 2 year old has been laying in his bed since he was a few weeks old, and going to sleep. We have a routine at bedtime. We brush teeth, watch an episode of Barney while we rock and then we go to bed. I have a tape of lullabies that I play for him to fall asleep.

About 6 weeks ago he had a bad virus, and he was in a good bit of pain for 2 weeks. I had to rock him to sleep, and we got up several times in the middle of the night to rock. Ever since then he has been a MONSTER at bedtime. Some nights he will still lay down and just go to sleep, but others he SCREAMS. Every night this week he has cried for an eternity. He has been crying for 15 minutes solid now. "Mommy, I hold you." And to make matters worse, if I go in his room he will not stop until I take him to the living room and rock him. The rocking chair I have in his room will not do, and he will continue to scream. My husband says I need to let him cry, but one night last week he cried until he threw up. I am at my wits end.

I am sorry for the long post, but I needed to vent. Any and all advice is apprecited. Also, we have to wake him up at 6:00 am, so a later bedtime is not an option. He acted exhausted before I took him to the bed.
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#2 Sporting life 88

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 07:48 PM

I know what you are going through is tough. And as much as I hate to admit it... your husband is right.

IMHO your child got used to the extra snuggle time and each time you give into him you are doubling the time it will take to break him of this habit.

I know it's hard. I am speaking from experience... I am the mother of three and all went through this. BTW it's always harder with the baby wink.gif

Good luck!!

#3 ThomasRoad

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 07:53 PM

My son went from our bed to his when he was almost 2. I had to let him cry. I would play a movie in his room and shut the door (he was already in a toddler bed). I know watching the tv was not good, but he didn't cry as much. Soon he watched about 10 minutes and he was gone. It's very hard, but you do have to let the cry. Try to put a sippy cup of water with him.

#4 AEmom

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 08:00 PM

Ok, I broke down. After 20 minutes of screaming I went and got him. Instead of rocking him or giving him tv, I took him to my bed. He scooted right up under me and fell asleep. He was snoring. I took him to his crib (still snoring) and as soon as I leaned over the crib he started screaming again. His daddy is in his room now trying to talk to him. sad.gif

I am SO mad. I am mad at him for behaving this way (otherwise he is an excellent child), and I am mad at myself for going to get him. I went to my bathroom and just pounded my fists on the counter. angry.gif

He is the baby, and I want to snuggle him. I do not want him to be so rotten that no one but his mommy can stand him.

Why don't we get a manual when they are born that tells you what to do when they do something that baffles you?!?!? unsure.gif

Edited by ajejmom, 25 April 2006 - 08:01 PM.

A mother's love for her child is like nothing else in the world. -Agatha Christie

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#5 Sporting life 88

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 08:11 PM

QUOTE
He is the baby, and I want to snuggle him. I do not want him to be so rotten that no one but his mommy can stand him.

Why don't we get a manual when they are born that tells you what to do when they do something that baffles you?!?!?


I KNOW it's hard. I really do. But if you think of it like this... if I let him cry tonight and it takes 30 minutes - 1 hour... tomorrow night it will be a little less and a little less the next night.

BUT if you pick him up and put him in your bed tonight... he's got no reason not to expect the same thing each time he cries.

Try to think of it as rewarding bad behavior. If you reward (give in) to him for screaming how can he learn that it doesn't work??

I learned this the HARD way. I promise it works. smile.gif Stay strong... it gets better.

#6 Doreen

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 08:24 PM

Good advice Jabez.

#7 leslie71

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 08:39 PM

I'm going to go against the majority and say that if he wants you to hold him, hold him. They're only babies for a very short time..it really goes by in an instant....and it's from us that they learn about love and trust and caring.

He won't be wanting you to rock him to sleep at age 5 or beyond, so treasure these moments wub.gif Show him that he can always count on mama to soothe him when he needs it.

#8 NY Gal

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 08:45 PM

QUOTE (Lesley71 @ Apr 25 2006, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm going to go against the majority and say that if he wants you to hold him, hold him. They're only babies for a very short time..it really goes by in an instant....and it's from us that they learn about love and trust and caring.

He won't be wanting you to rock him to sleep at age 5 or beyond, so treasure these moments wub.gif Show him that he can always count on mama to soothe him when he needs it.

I agree 100%. My baby is 3 1/2, and it kills me. Everytime he asks me to pick him up, I do, becasue I know he won't want me to for long. Yes my son is spoiled....he's the youngest and was so unexpected (but wanted very much), and he will grow out of it. Enjoy EVERY minute with him. It will be gone before you know it!

I can't tell you how much I regret not stopping for 5 minutes to read a book to my daughter becasue I had to get to work, or had to grocery shop, or had to clean. She is 16 and barely has anything to say to us anymore....I will enjoy my 2 little ones as long as possible.

And if I am late to work.....oh well! Busy reading to my son!!!!

Edited by NY Gal, 25 April 2006 - 08:47 PM.

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#9 markdavd

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 08:47 PM

If you continue giving in to him, it will only get worse. He'll know that he only needs to keep up the crying long enough and he'll get his way.

It may take a few days of 'mommy' pain, but let him scream. He'll learn it doesn't work anymore.

The more you give in to him, the longer and harder it will be to break him of the habit.

(That doesn't even address bringing him to bed with you.)

Good luck.


Markdavd - a father of six.

#10 shoes116

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 08:51 PM

I'm SO sorry. My son didn't sleep through the night until he was almost 18 months old (save a night here or there). So, I always feel for anyone with sleep issues.

He has a pretty good routine down now, and rarely gives us problems. But, if something disrupts his routine (such as an illness), he does go through a phase very similar to what you described. It doesn't last long, though, I promise. Try to get him back to your old routine as best you can, and as hard as it is, try not to give in.

If it continues, I found a lot of helpful info in "No-Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley.



#11 jmartin

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 09:01 PM

Markdvd is right. They learn this from us. "I cry" = "mommy picks me up" It only gets worse when he's pissed that you took 10 minutes to come this time instead of 5. So that's why he's going to try/cry harder.

However NY gal is also right in that you treasure every moment - read the book one more time. Stop washing dishes to go see what they colored, etc. But that doesn't necessarily mean you let them rob you of needed sleep, or let them determine the bedtime rules.

But you have to develop a routine for bedtime - sounds like you had one and just got out of it - be careful not to do that. I know it's hard when they are sick but try.

A couple more points IMHO:

I wouldn't start the TV at bedtime thing - even short videos. When they are 12, 13, 14, they will still expect it and guess what? 10 minute Barney videos won't cut it - they will be watching MTV until midnight after all, you let them have bedtime tv when they were 5, why not at 15? It just isn't healthy to have the TV on at bedtime.

Before I would bring a crying or sick child to my bed - I would go to theirs, even a crib - lay down next to it and hold his hand through slats. That way he still understand that mommy is there when he needs you, but he still sleeps in HIS room, not yours. **


**Not intended to insult co-sleepers or those that believe in the family bed. If it's your thing, that's fine, I just respectfully disagree.

Only 4 kids for me. biggrin.gif
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#12 Super Girl

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 09:01 PM

Here's my take on children and sleep. I have 3 children.

My oldest started sleeping through the night when she was 8 days old, which was great because I was young she was born and would have been even less patient than I am now. blink.gif

My middle child took about 8 weeks to sleep through the night. It wasn't easy at all. When she was about 2 years old we moved her from the crib to the bed. Things were fine for a while. Just before she was 3 she became a monster about going to bed. I got some chamomile (sp) from GNC and started giving that to her about an hour before bed.

My youngest started sleeping through the night at about 6 weeks. However, he had to have open heart surgery at about 8 weeks. After that, he didn't sleep through the night until he was about 8 months old. He did well until he learned to climb out of his crib. huh.gif He will be 4 this summer and still, he is not the greatest to go to sleep.

I tell you all that to say this, time sure does fly. My oldest will be 16 this summer. I just can't believe that in a few more years she will be gone. wub.gif Just be patient and cuddle him while you still can. There will come a day when you just wonder where the time has gone and actually yearn for the middle of the night "cuddle" calls.

#13 AEmom

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 09:06 PM

QUOTE (Lesley71 @ Apr 25 2006, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm going to go against the majority and say that if he wants you to hold him, hold him. They're only babies for a very short time..it really goes by in an instant....and it's from us that they learn about love and trust and caring.

He won't be wanting you to rock him to sleep at age 5 or beyond, so treasure these moments wub.gif Show him that he can always count on mama to soothe him when he needs it.


Thanks Lesley. This is what my heart tells me. He is not a spoiled kid otherwise, and I enjoy cuddling him. The hard part for me is that I was raised by a strict disciplinarian, and I try to instill discipline with my kids. It's an internal struggle for me. Plus, what worked with my oldest does not always work with the little guy.

QUOTE (NY Gal @ Apr 25 2006, 09:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Lesley71 @ Apr 25 2006, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm going to go against the majority and say that if he wants you to hold him, hold him. They're only babies for a very short time..it really goes by in an instant....and it's from us that they learn about love and trust and caring.

He won't be wanting you to rock him to sleep at age 5 or beyond, so treasure these moments wub.gif Show him that he can always count on mama to soothe him when he needs it.

I agree 100%. My baby is 3 1/2, and it kills me. Everytime he asks me to pick him up, I do, becasue I know he won't want me to for long. Yes my son is spoiled....he's the youngest and was so unexpected (but wanted very much), and he will grow out of it. Enjoy EVERY minute with him. It will be gone before you know it!

I can't tell you how much I regret not stopping for 5 minutes to read a book to my daughter becasue I had to get to work, or had to grocery shop, or had to clean. She is 16 and barely has anything to say to us anymore....I will enjoy my 2 little ones as long as possible.

And if I am late to work.....oh well! Busy reading to my son!!!!


Thanks, and I am SO trying to enjoy him. And, by the way your 16 year old barely speaks because she is 16. She will outgrow it. I avoided my parents as a teenager.

QUOTE (markdavd @ Apr 25 2006, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you continue giving in to him, it will only get worse. He'll know that he only needs to keep up the crying long enough and he'll get his way.

It may take a few days of 'mommy' pain, but let him scream. He'll learn it doesn't work anymore.

The more you give in to him, the longer and harder it will be to break him of the habit.

(That doesn't even address bringing him to bed with you.)

Good luck.


Markdavd - a father of six.


Thanks for the advice, and this is the conflict that I am having within myself. By the way...I do not bring him to bed. I laid down with him in my bed tonight for the very first time just grasping for a way to soothe him that was not a complete give-in. He wanted to rock in my recliner, so I took him to my bed. My husband is strongly opposed to children sleeping with parents. Even when I was nursing him in our bed his daddy would put him in his crib when he was done.

Latest is that after another 45 minutes of being rocked by his daddy (crying for me for most of that time) he fell asleep. I think he is going through a phase right now too. He has been crying some when I drop him off in the mornings, and he loves his daycare.
A mother's love for her child is like nothing else in the world. -Agatha Christie

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#14 leslie71

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 09:09 PM

I, for one, plan to snuggle my kids as long as they want me to smile.gif

wub.gif

My boy's right here snoozin' beside me. It works for us.

biggrin.gif

I just know I'd rather cuddle him than listen to him cry for me any day of the week.

Edited by Lesley71, 25 April 2006 - 09:10 PM.


#15 AEmom

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 09:21 PM

QUOTE (Super Girl @ Apr 25 2006, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here's my take on children and sleep. I have 3 children.

I got some chamomile (sp) from GNC and started giving that to her about an hour before bed.

Just be patient and cuddle him while you still can. There will come a day when you just wonder where the time has gone and actually yearn for the middle of the night "cuddle" calls.


What form of chamomile did you give her? Tea? He likes a cup of milk before bed, so is it something I could put in his milk?

I told myself when he was born that because I probably would not have any more children that I would hold him a little more and be there more. I guess I need to let go of this need to be the colonel to my kids and just love them more.

After my husband got him to sleep tonight he said that he has changed his mind about letting him cry it out. He said we just need to cuddle him and make him feel secure. Go figure!! blink.gif laugh.gif
A mother's love for her child is like nothing else in the world. -Agatha Christie

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#16 All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 09:29 PM

QUOTE (ajejmom @ Apr 25 2006, 10:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Super Girl @ Apr 25 2006, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's my take on children and sleep. I have 3 children.

I got some chamomile (sp) from GNC and started giving that to her about an hour before bed.

Just be patient and cuddle him while you still can. There will come a day when you just wonder where the time has gone and actually yearn for the middle of the night "cuddle" calls.


What form of chamomile did you give her? Tea? He likes a cup of milk before bed, so is it something I could put in his milk?

I told myself when he was born that because I probably would not have any more children that I would hold him a little more and be there more. I guess I need to let go of this need to be the colonel to my kids and just love them more.

After my husband got him to sleep tonight he said that he has changed his mind about letting him cry it out. He said we just need to cuddle him and make him feel secure. Go figure!! blink.gif laugh.gif

As a once "no way, they have their own bed...they go to bed at a certain time" parent, I have changed my perspective. I agree with Lesley. They grow up way too fast, so take every single advantage you can of the times they want to snuggle, the 'tude comes way before the teen years now. I have some of the best behaved kids that others enjoy being around, and if they want snuggle time with us, they get it and it hasn't made them unbearable around others. We rock them to sleep almost every night and some nights they come crawl in the bed with us. So for anyone who tells you different, just tell em to bite you... its not their kid and you are not going to screw him up by not making him cry it out.

Edited by its mr sarcastic to you, 25 April 2006 - 09:32 PM.


#17 rolltidesteph

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 09:49 PM

QUOTE (Lesley71 @ Apr 25 2006, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I, for one, plan to snuggle my kids as long as they want me to smile.gif

wub.gif

My boy's right here snoozin' beside me. It works for us.

biggrin.gif

I just know I'd rather cuddle him than listen to him cry for me any day of the week.


I agree with you 100 percent. We let our son sleep with us. He will be the only child due to various reasons and we want to cherish these precious moments as long as we can. There is nothing better to be awaken in the morning to your child leaning over kissing you on the forehead and whispering, "Get up, Mommy, get up." wub.gif We are half way through the terrible twos and even though he can be stubborn at times (I insist he inherited it from his dad ninja.gif ), he is really a great kid!
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#18 Aunt Suger

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 09:59 PM

I'm with ya AJEJMOM only my monsters are 5 and almost 4. My hubby works nights so it's just me getting them to bed and Yes they are old enough to sleep by them selves but I can't force them. We need a routine. . yes that's true. They don't sleep in bed with us they sleep on the floor. It doesn't matter it they have a pillow and blanket or nothing at all, I'll put them in their rooms and during the night they end up on my floor. Hubby says to lock the door but there is no way I can lock my kids out. My favorite thing is to snuggle and read a great book with them. I agree they are only babies once.

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#19 otbecca

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 10:27 PM

QUOTE (Jabez @ Apr 25 2006, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
He is the baby, and I want to snuggle him. I do not want him to be so rotten that no one but his mommy can stand him.

Why don't we get a manual when they are born that tells you what to do when they do something that baffles you?!?!?


I KNOW it's hard. I really do. But if you think of it like this... if I let him cry tonight and it takes 30 minutes - 1 hour... tomorrow night it will be a little less and a little less the next night.

BUT if you pick him up and put him in your bed tonight... he's got no reason not to expect the same thing each time he cries.

Try to think of it as rewarding bad behavior. If you reward (give in) to him for screaming how can he learn that it doesn't work??

I learned this the HARD way. I promise it works. smile.gif Stay strong... it gets better.



I totally agree with Jabez and others that feel the best thing is to establish that bedtime routine again and let him sleep in his own bed. Treasure your son by paying attention to him, playing with him, and praising him during the day. The difficulty with the "I cry and mommy comes running" routine is it let him be the boss. It is unfortunately letting him set the rules and not you. I don't see as disipline. I see it as simply letting him now that crying doesn't equal his way. I know snuggling feels good and is a lot easier than hearing him cry. Remember all children (adults too actually) test the boundaries constantly. When a boundary gives way, they will take it every time.

#20 AuntBoo

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 07:04 AM

QUOTE (Lesley71 @ Apr 25 2006, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm going to go against the majority and say that if he wants you to hold him, hold him. They're only babies for a very short time..it really goes by in an instant....and it's from us that they learn about love and trust and caring.

He won't be wanting you to rock him to sleep at age 5 or beyond, so treasure these moments wub.gif Show him that he can always count on mama to soothe him when he needs it.

Amen! Mine doesn't seem to be any worse for it and he's 17 now, and no he doesn't still cry for his momma sad.gif

#21 AEmom

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 07:21 AM

I really appreciate everyone's advice. Last night was one of many difficult nights, and I am sure that it will not get better any time soon. Let me also say that I am taking everyone's advice into consideration.

My husband and I both had the attitude that MISTY described which is "they have their own bed and a specific bedtime". We DO have a very structured bedtime routine, and it was followed last night. He knew he was going to bed, and he followed the routine. When I put him in the crib he wanted me to hold him. I completely understand why people let their children cry it out. I did it with my oldest. I just cannot seem to fathom the thought of continuously making him cry so hard that he throws up. He is not a difficult child otherwise, and he follows directions. wub.gif

My husband held him, paced with him, read to him and sang to him. It took 45 minutes for him to get him down, and this was an hour and a half past his bedtime. He slept all night, but even with going to bed so late he still woke up on his own this morning at 6:00 am. I am starting to wonder if there is something physically wrong, or if he is getting sick. He is eating well, and he is playful. Hubby thinks it may just be a separation anxiety phase. Who knows?! wacko.gif

Being a parent is so frustrating. Thanks again for letting me vent.

Edited by ajejmom, 26 April 2006 - 07:23 AM.

A mother's love for her child is like nothing else in the world. -Agatha Christie

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#22 Sporting life 88

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 07:29 AM

I am glad that everything worked out for you last night.

I hope everyone knows that parenting is as different and as touchy a subject as religion, politics and well the sex that made you a parent. There is no right answers, only "right for you" answers.

What works for one family may not work for another family, what works for one child in that family may not work for a different child in that same family. Life is like that!! wink.gif Do what works for you.

That's the great thing about p.com, when you ask for suggestions you will get many different ones --- No matter what the subject matter is!! wink.gif

#23 PauldingMom

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 08:53 AM

It may seem harsh but what you are teaching him is that if he cries long enough and hard you will come and reward him.
Instead, let him cry for 5 minutes, then kiss him good night, lay him down and leave. Wait 10 minutes and repeat, wait 15 minutes and repeat, wait 20 minutes and so on and so on. He will learn that you love him, and will come if he need you but you will not reward him when he want's to stay up. He will also learn how to put himself to sleep.
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#24 St. GTJacket

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 09:09 AM

It sounds more like he got use to the extra time with you and is now doing whatever he has to in order to get your attention.

IMO, you make the kid feel better about themselves once you reassure them there is nothing there and then let them get throught it. By that I mean, you let him cry it out. Everytime he cries and you go back in the room you are reinforcing the negative behavior. Once he makes it through the night (it may take a few) he will be much more confident in his ability to soothe himself. Kids don't do things that don't work. Once he realizes it isn't getting him the attention he wants it will stop.

Good luck to you! wub.gif

BTW: No I do not have kids. I am sure someone will point that out. But two of my god kids went through this same thing. wink.gif

Edited by GTJacket, 26 April 2006 - 09:10 AM.

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#25 All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 09:16 AM

QUOTE (GTJacket @ Apr 26 2006, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It sounds more like he got use to the extra time with you and is now doing whatever he has to in order to get your attention.

IMO, you make the kid feel better about themselves once you reassure them there is nothing there and then let them get throught it. By that I mean, you let him cry it out. Everytime he cries and you go back in the room you are reinforcing the negative behavior. Once he makes it through the night (it may take a few) he will be much more confident in his ability to soothe himself. Kids don't do things that don't work. Once he realizes it isn't getting him the attention he wants it will stop.

Good luck to you! wub.gif

BTW: No I do not have kids. I am sure someone will point that out. But two of my god kids went through this same thing. wink.gif


As a parent, I prefer the "I am always here for you approach", than the "Cry it out approach". Sometimes kids that young may feel abandoned when not checked on and that is pretty scary for a little mind like that. A lot of parents take it as seeking attention, when I believe that sometimes its more of a fear. And like Jabez said, its different for all and before I had kids, I felt JUST like you.... but don't say NEVER, because you could VERY likely change your mind as well should you have kids of your own one day.

#26 WineShopatHome

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 09:24 AM

I didn't take the time to read all of these so please forgive me if this has been mentioned. My girls were both in twin beds by the time they were a year old. My youngest loves to be tickled (fingers lightly moved across skin) when going to sleep. I would lay in her bed with her for 15 minutes and tickle her. This way I didn't disturb her by carrying her from room to room. Now that she is older, I still tickle for 15 minutes but it's only on the nights that she requests it.

#27 AEmom

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 10:22 AM

What I need to reiterate is that he is not simply whining/ crying. He is SCREAMING, sobbing with huge tears. If you missed it in my original post - we had a similar episode last week and he cried until he threw up. It was HORRIBLE. His face was still puffy this morning from all the crying.

Now, I know what all of you that say he should cry it out must think, but I have always felt that children should cry it out too. However, I cannot fathom that at 2 years old he has the critical thinking skills to figure out that if he cries long enough, and pukes that I will come and get him. I will also say that there have been nights in the last few weeks that he has gone to bed without incident, as well as nights that he has cried for 5-10 minutes and then gone to sleep on his own. There is no consistency to his behavior which is what worries me.
A mother's love for her child is like nothing else in the world. -Agatha Christie

Formerly known as...ajejmom




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