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Bakers who refuse to make cakes for gay weddings have 'fundamental right' to turn away orders says Jeff Sessions

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4970124/Sessions-stands-anti-gay-cake-bakers.html#ixzz4vIbUBFFG

 

I guess this means they can also turn away interracial couples. Muslims? Catholic? Jews? Are they going to question every customer about their religion and ethnicity? How about any other sins they may have committed. I see no difference, they need to refuse those that have had sex before marriage. They also need to ask if they have been divorced or committed adultery. If you are refusing people based on their sins per, the bible then you need to stick to it.

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Bet you thought this was a good idea too.

 

White+trade+only+Portland.jpg

 

Typical...as usual you resort to calling people racist. There is a big difference but apparently you don't understand that.

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Typical...as usual you resort to calling people racist. There is a big difference but apparently you don't understand that.

 

I didn't call anyone anything I just pointed the hypocrisy of your beliefs. And no there is no difference, and yes LPPT is right who is next on your evangelical hit list ?

 

eastofsuez_jude.jpg

 

Edited by CitizenCain

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And, liberals keep shutting down FREE SPEECH on campuses. That's worse than some bakers refusing to make a cake when people can get a cake easily somewhere else.

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So that I understand the playing field.............

 

 

This is not okay, but this is? (see below)

 

http://paulding.com/forum/topic/321557-owner-bans-cops-military-from-joining-gym/?hl=%2Bjim+%2Bchambers ,

 

Good point, Or put another way this ok but this is not ?

 

http://paulding.com/forum/topic/321557-owner-bans-cops-military-from-joining-gym/?hl=%2Bjim+%2Bchambers

 

 

And, liberals keep shutting down FREE SPEECH on campuses. That's worse than some bakers refusing to make a cake when people can get a cake easily somewhere else.

 

Didn't take long for that.

 

Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument,[1][2] [3] which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.[4][5][6] When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world.

Edited by CitizenCain
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I guess the difference for me is discriminating against people for the way they are born.

Many Christians don't believe that they are born that way. They believe that people choose a lifestyle that will cause them to be shunned, abused and sometimes killed.

 

It is no different than discriminating against people born with a mental deficit. The brains of homosexuals are obviously different than those of heterosexuals.

Basically, it boils down to being mean to Gay people. It's not like they were asking them to put porn on a wedding cake.

 

It says a lot about Jeff Sessions belief about homosexuality.

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A privately owned business that does not fall under the category of public utility should have the right to refuse service to any person for any reason.

Consequently; customers of such privately owned companies have the right to choose not to do business with them.

It's called freedom.



It says a lot about Jeff Sessions belief about homosexuality.

No, it says a lot about Sessions' belief in freedom.

The government has no business forcing a privately owned company to do business with someone.

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Bet you thought this was a good idea too.

 

White+trade+only+Portland.jpg

Shame on you, dude! This is exactly the kind of crap that is continuing to push race relations back to the dark ages.

 

I understood cptlo's comment, it was in support of freedom. It had nothing to do with race. Nothing!

 

Several other examples of private businesses refusing service have been posted here, and I support the right of all of them to decide how their business will be ran. I even support the gay coffee shop owner's right to refuse service to Christians. I don't agree with it, but he should have that right as the owner of the business.

 

This is America, man! The land of the free. It's not supposed to be the land of government suppression. It's not supposed to be a communist dictatorship.

 

Let's say you own Cains Printing Service, and Donald Trump walks in to order some banners reading "Democrats Are Nutless". You should have right to tell him to get out of your establishment, and I would support that right. You started the business with your money, you put your assets at risk, you should have the right to make decisions.

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A privately owned business that does not fall under the category of public utility should have the right to refuse service to any person for any reason.

 

Consequently; customers of such privately owned companies have the right to choose not to do business with them.

 

It's called freedom.

 

And that's the kind of society you want to live in ? Maybe that "freedom" has to do with the fact that 76% of the country is white. Get back to us when that role reverses itself in twenty years.

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I'm so torn over this topic.

If I go in a business and I don't like a product they sell, or I don't like the smell, or I really don't care for the music, or I just don't like it there... I go somewhere else.

 

Now if we were talking about a life saving medication that the customer would die without and this was the only shop within 1,000 miles that could dispense this medication, then yes. But it's a cake, go on down the street to another bakery, discount store, grocery store, Sam's Club or I'll bet you can order a cake on-line now.

 

Several years ago I went in a tire store in Hiram where they advertised they beat anyone's price. The person at the counter refused to accept the WalMart website price in my phone. That person required "A Hard Copy Quote". I moved on down the street, now I'm on a first name basis with that tire store crew. I wonder if the first place does not want to do business with heavy, gray headed guys driving pickup trucks with Trump stickers? QUICK SOMEONE CALL THE MEDIA BECAUSE I'VE BEEN OFFENDED.

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And that's the kind of society you want to live in ? Maybe that "freedom" has to do with the fact that 76% of the country is white. Get back to us when that role reverses itself in twenty years.

I'll state again...

 

 

 

It has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with freedom.

 

Can you turn off your programming long enough to consider that?

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I'll state again...

 

 

 

It has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with freedom.

 

Can you turn off your programming long enough to consider that?

 

That's exactly word for word the same argument that made Blacks eat in restaurant kitchens forty years ago. Now it's gays I'll ask you who is next on your evangelical hit list ?

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A privately owned business that does not fall under the category of public utility should have the right to refuse service to any person for any reason.

 

Consequently; customers of such privately owned companies have the right to choose not to do business with them.

 

It's called freedom.

No, it says a lot about Sessions' belief in freedom.

 

The government has no business forcing a privately owned company to do business with someone.

You must really not remember how bad it was for blacks. I remember how they were treated. Discrimination has an ugly history. It doesn't stop at lunch counters and bus seats. Even more recently abused and murdered Gay people have not gotten what they had the right to in our judicial system. It doesn't stop in the bakery. It is the condoning of hatred and the freedom to practice it.

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That's exactly word for word the same argument that made Blacks eat in restaurant kitchens forty years ago. Now it's gays I'll ask you who is next on your evangelical hit list ?

 

 

You must really not remember how bad it was for blacks. I remember how they were treated. Discrimination has an ugly history. It doesn't stop at lunch counters and bus seats. Even more recently abused and murdered Gay people have not gotten what they had the right to in our judicial system. It doesn't stop in the bakery. It is the condoning of hatred and the freedom to practice it.

Cain, I'm getting really tired of your personal attacks.

 

LPPT - I think I'm older than you are, so yes I remember. Legislation was necessary in areas such as public schools refusing black students and public utilities making them sit on the back of the bus. The rest of the change has come from education and change of heart, not laws.

 

Condoning freedom is not condoning hatred. In fact, it's the lack of freedom that often fosters hatred.

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I'm so torn over this topic.

If I go in a business and I don't like a product they sell, or I don't like the smell, or I really don't care for the music, or I just don't like it there... I go somewhere else.

 

Now if we were talking about a life saving medication that the customer would die without and this was the only shop within 1,000 miles that could dispense this medication, then yes. But it's a cake, go on down the street to another bakery, discount store, grocery store, Sam's Club or I'll bet you can order a cake on-line now.

 

Several years ago I went in a tire store in Hiram where they advertised they beat anyone's price. The person at the counter refused to accept the WalMart website price in my phone. That person required "A Hard Copy Quote". I moved on down the street, now I'm on a first name basis with that tire store crew. I wonder if the first place does not want to do business with heavy, gray headed guys driving pickup trucks with Trump stickers? QUICK SOMEONE CALL THE MEDIA BECAUSE I'VE BEEN OFFENDED.

 

People are afraid if we take away bump stocks or silencers we are on a slippery slope to having our guns taken away but see no problem with this ?

 

 

 

Cain, I'm getting really tired of your personal attacks.

 

 

Please explain to me how that was a personal attack.

 

 

 

That's exactly word for word the same argument that made Blacks eat in restaurant kitchens forty years ago. Now it's gays I'll ask you who is next on your evangelical hit list ?

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Please explain to me how that was a personal attack.

 

You're attacked everyone who disagrees with you by insinuating they are racist racist or religious zealots.

 

If your position is that strong, why can't you just argue the facts and leave the insults out of it?

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So that I understand the playing field.............

 

 

This is not okay, but this is? (see below)

 

http://paulding.com/forum/topic/321557-owner-bans-cops-military-from-joining-gym/?hl=%2Bjim+%2Bchambers ,

 

The key point of confusion in this topic is that the gym owner was promoting marketing, not establishing policy. There is a difference. Consider it like your favorite Christian baker who has images of Glittering Jesus on every wall that is not plastered with quotes about how horrid specific acts might be ... but when the gay couple comes into the bakery still will serve them. Hell, he may even be like those waiters who when snubbed spit in the food before serving it but still serves the customer in those instances. Most customers will not feel welcome and like Mojo, will go to the next tire store.

 

And, liberals keep shutting down FREE SPEECH on campuses. That's worse than some bakers refusing to make a cake when people can get a cake easily somewhere else.

I don't think they're shutting down free speech, they're just good at yelling louder. The reality is that the first amendment really applies only to acts by the government and government officials. The state colleges or local governments are no more empowered to tell those who shout down Milo Yiannopoulos to shut up than they are to tell Milo to.

 

Gay Coffee Shop Owner Kicks Out Christians :

 

http://www.dailywire.com/news/22027/watch-gay-coffee-shop-owner-denies-service-ryan-saavedra#exit-modal

 

Freedom is a two way street... 8)

 

Some people exceed their authority. Sometimes they're sued and sometimes they aren't. Sometimes, if they carry a badge and exceed their authority, an unarmed person lies dead while the person who exceeded their authority is placed on a month-long paid administrative leave (aka: vacation.) Exceeding one's authority and facing the consequences is part of life in a civilized society. Some of those consequences can be critical comments on pcom or in the NYTimes or even Brietbart. What else is new?

 

Shame on you, dude! This is exactly the kind of crap that is continuing to push race relations back to the dark ages.

 

I understood cptlo's comment, it was in support of freedom. It had nothing to do with race. Nothing!

 

Several other examples of private businesses refusing service have been posted here, and I support the right of all of them to decide how their business will be ran. I even support the gay coffee shop owner's right to refuse service to Christians. I don't agree with it, but he should have that right as the owner of the business.

 

This is America, man! The land of the free. It's not supposed to be the land of government suppression. It's not supposed to be a communist dictatorship.

 

Let's say you own Cains Printing Service, and Donald Trump walks in to order some banners reading "Democrats Are Nutless". You should have right to tell him to get out of your establishment, and I would support that right. You started the business with your money, you put your assets at risk, you should have the right to make decisions.

 

For a businessman, you're awful damned dumb. There is a presumption that if you're offering goods or servers to the public, you have to offer them without discrimination. That is a fact.

 

Another fact is that for every 'court case' or news story, there are thousands of other interactions in which the seller or buyer discriminattes on a whole host of factors. Successful business people tend to be accommodating to their customers primarily because they prize the rewards for doing so.

 

Other people are more principled and endure the costs of their principles. Obviously one of the principles I hold dear is freedom of speech. We know that by your presence because as we all know, I have the right to excise those with whom I disagree and obviously we disagree. But my principles include jealous assertion of my own free speech. I think you guys have all recognized if not rejoiced in maximizing the costs of my principles.

 

The only certainty in business is that when one has principles, exercising those principles have a cost. The baker knows that and should be happy to bear the cost of their principles which may come in the form of a judgement for damages.

 

I would simply suggest that those folks accept the sacrifices they've made for their principles with pride. It is called being grown up.

 

pubby

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For a businessman, you're awful damned dumb. There is a presumption that if you're offering goods or servers to the public, you have to offer them without discrimination. That is a fact.

 

Another fact is that for every 'court case' or news story, there are thousands of other interactions in which the seller or buyer discriminattes on a whole host of factors. Successful business people tend to be accommodating to their customers primarily because they prize the rewards for doing so.

 

Other people are more principled and endure the costs of their principles. Obviously one of the principles I hold dear is freedom of speech. We know that by your presence because as we all know, I have the right to excise those with whom I disagree and obviously we disagree. But my principles include jealous assertion of my own free speech. I think you guys have all recognized if not rejoiced in maximizing the costs of my principles.

 

The only certainty in business is that when one has principles, exercising those principles have a cost. The baker knows that and should be happy to bear the cost of their principles which may come in the form of a judgement for damages.

 

I would simply suggest that those folks accept the sacrifices they've made for their principles with pride. It is called being grown up.

 

pubby

First off, thanks for the insult. I was recently warned for saying essentially the same thing about you, but I guess it's OK for you to do it.

 

Secondly...lemme see if I understand you....you're saying that a business owner should be forced by government to violate his/her own moral or religious standards, just to give a customer what they want. Does that about cover it?

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First off, thanks for the insult. I was recently warned for saying essentially the same thing about you, but I guess it's OK for you to do it.

 

Secondly...lemme see if I understand you....you're saying that a business owner should be forced by government to violate his/her own moral or religious standards, just to give a customer what they want. Does that about cover it?

 

Do you seriouslly think this decision by the Justice Dept. is going to end with private business ? Dotard has already banned transgender people from serving in the military. Not long ago a county clerk refused to give a marriage licence to gay couples. No this is just the beginning and if successful you can bet it will not end with homosexuals, "that I can tell you".

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First off, thanks for the insult. I was recently warned for saying essentially the same thing about you, but I guess it's OK for you to do it.

 

Secondly...lemme see if I understand you....you're saying that a business owner should be forced by government to violate his/her own moral or religious standards, just to give a customer what they want. Does that about cover it?

First, I think your response validates my insult. (I don't think that was the reason for the warn.)

 

The point is that the business is not forced to do anything other than provide their good or service to all without discrimination. It is their choice to discriminate against someone for whatever reason they choose but with the full knowledge that they will pay a price.

 

The price may be minimal - it may be as little as the $50 in profit for the wedding cake - or $5000 in fines because they were sanctioned in a civil action over their discrimination. The point is they are choosing to sacrifice for their principles and they make that sacrifice with full knowledge of the potential consequences.

 

If their principles were based on the capitalistic ethic, they would maximize profit and do the work and earn the profit by selling their goods and services to all comers. It is this capitalistic ethic, combined with the American ethic that all are equal in the eyes of the law, that is at the heart of the law.

 

pubby

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It has already been stated (numerous times). If you do not like the policy do not do business with them. If there are no public funds involved the owner has the right to hire, fire, refuse service, change business hours, set the price for services, etc. As long as the owner does not violate labor laws (and certain health codes, etc.) he can run his business as he damn well pleases. Liberals really need to grow up, go to work, quit relying on big brother (Feds) to bail them out, get off the federal teat and quit worrying about what everybody else is doing. I have enough on my plate creating jobs and being productive to worry about a damn cake maker or whatever.

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It has already been stated (numerous times). If you do not like the policy do not do business with them. If there are no public funds involved the owner has the right to hire, fire, refuse service, change business hours, set the price for services, etc. As long as the owner does not violate labor laws (and certain health codes, etc.) he can run his business as he damn well pleases. Liberals really need to grow up, go to work, quit relying on big brother (Feds) to bail them out, get off the federal teat and quit worrying about what everybody else is doing. I have enough on my plate creating jobs and being productive to worry about a damn cake maker or whatever.

I assume that "private business" uses public roads and utilities, partially paid for by local residents as well as fire and police departments, also supported by local tax dollars; some which are paid by gay people. Therfore, that private business isn't quite as private as it seems and needs to serve all people. What's next, a hospital refusing to take care of gays and minorities?

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I assume that "private business" uses public roads and utilities, partially paid for by local residents as well as fire and police departments, also supported by local tax dollars; some which are paid by gay people. Therfore, that private business isn't quite as private as it seems and needs to serve all people. What's next, a hospital refusing to take care of gays and minorities?

OK? SSTREEEEETTCH that a little more.

I didn't make the rules that's just how it works.

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I assume that "private business" uses public roads and utilities, partially paid for by local residents as well as fire and police departments, also supported by local tax dollars; some which are paid by gay people. Therfore, that private business isn't quite as private as it seems and needs to serve all people. What's next, a hospital refusing to take care of gays and minorities?

Couple of things...

 

1-Businesses pay taxes too

 

2-Do you as an individual lose your constitutional rights just because you use public roads?

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Couple of things...

1-Businesses pay taxes too

2-Do you as an individual lose your constitutional rights just because you use public roads?

Your constitutional rights, do not entitle you to take rights away from others; especially if denying service places an undue burden on the customer. Just like it was wrong to deny service to the police, this is equally as wrong.

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Your constitutional rights, do not entitle you to take rights away from others; especially if denying service places an undue burden on the customer. Just like it was wrong to deny service to the police, this is equally as wrong.

 

So the gay couple has a RIGHT to have a specific company bake a cake for them? Are you serious?

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Your constitutional rights, do not entitle you to take rights away from others; especially if denying service places an undue burden on the customer. Just like it was wrong to deny service to the police, this is equally as wrong.

 

You do not have the right to force someone to bake you a cake.

 

8)

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