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Do you stand for our veterans? or the kneelers?


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#41 cmorg

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 01:51 PM

A movie quote to support your point of view.

 

Yes, the flag is only a symbol of our country.

 

But the symbol stands a proxy for the actual ideals that help shape our country and make it great.

 

And at some point, a symbol should be held up (so to speak), it should be honored and it should be respected.

 

It does stand for freedom.

 

However disrespecting a symbol of freedom is disrespecting freedom itself and the point you make is irrelevant.

 

And as for something being "just a symbol" . . . 

 

Do you not hold dear your wedding ring; would you tolerate it being disrespected?

 

It is, after all, just a symbol.


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#42 CitizenCain

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 02:09 PM

USA USA USA 

 

american-flag-overlode.jpg

 

To be clear I believe it is the right of every American that wishes to stand during the singing of the national anthem should be able to do so . 


Edited by CitizenCain, 04 October 2017 - 02:29 PM.

"Every critic, every detractor, will have to bow down to President Trump,"
 
 

 
 

 

#43 PUBBY

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 02:27 PM

^ reminds me of a quote from a movie which rings to this discussion (and the movie wasn't all that great).

 

America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free". 

http://www.imdb.com/...t0112346/quotes

 

There is much more to the speech where you can substitute names and such, but the message is true and almost rings more true on some levels (the paranoia parts) and not so much on others.  But the message is there ==> The FLAG is just a symbol, powerful that it is.  It should be much more to it than just a symbol and it should represent something -- that is the freedom to have free speech, freedom of liberty, life, and the pursuit of happiness of all of its citizens, plus it allows us to show protest against to better all of our citizens.  Burn it, kneel, rise up and scream or just not support those who show those opinions -- all are allowed here. 

 

JMHO.

 

Don't like the actions of the players in the NFL, NBA, NHL, WMBA, etc?  Go ahead and boycott them all you want.  Please do not support the minor leagues or high school or junior high or t-ball (equivalents, etc), as you show the children there will have no future in sports of any kind and should never show any ability to bring up issues though their ability to entertain.  Stop all support of actors as they might say something you are against -- no more TV shows, movies, netflixs, HBO series, etc.  Why watch them on screen and pay good money to see them?

 

Again .... JMHO.

 

Go ahead and dis me now, just had to type this :) .... :::bowingtoyoutearingmedownnow:::

 

diss you hell, I stand and applaud.

 

pubby

 

PS: I especially liked the part about turning off the TV and ensconcing oneself into a bubble; a media bubble where nothing, nothing at all is allowed to challenge you.



#44 Jamie Weaver

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 02:48 PM

LOL... Can anti-kneelers have permission to loot and burn up cheeze?

 

- Jamie


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"I have always tried to [tell the truth], but the Russians made me do it."  - Hillary Clinton

 

 

 


#45 cheryl37

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:06 AM

The way I see it these guys have no business pushing their agenda on us no more than Cher and Madonna or any other actor/singer does trying to get us to see their point on their political views. Your there to see a sport and who cares if you want to shed your light on an issue. To me they have no more right to express their views than I do at home. But the biggest issue to me is that the media (the real culprit) sheds light on it. The media is the biggest problem in this world today. You see a few idiots on the news and think the whole world feels the same as them. The media blows everything up with their crafty ways of making something out of nothing. They should become liable for their action and participation of the way they are handling situations that cause others to think that wrong is the norm.
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#46 El Zorro

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:53 AM

The way I see it these guys have no business pushing their agenda on us no more than Cher and Madonna or any other actor/singer does trying to get us to see their point on their political views. Your there to see a sport and who cares if you want to shed your light on an issue. To me they have no more right to express their views than I do at home. But the biggest issue to me is that the media (the real culprit) sheds light on it. The media is the biggest problem in this world today. You see a few idiots on the news and think the whole world feels the same as them. The media blows everything up with their crafty ways of making something out of nothing. They should become liable for their action and participation of the way they are handling situations that cause others to think that wrong is the norm.

Your comment about the media being the real culprit reminded me of a commentary Paul Harvey aired in 1965.

 


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#47 Domestic Violence by Proxy

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 02:55 PM

Veterans take a knee at a city council meeting during Pledge of Allegiance on 10/6/2017.

 

DLQMY1fUIAAcRrX.jpg


Edited by Domestic Violence by Proxy, 06 October 2017 - 02:57 PM.

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#48 PUBBY

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 04:26 PM

The very concept of this topic - that there is a choice that must be made - is un-American.

 

I am actually kind of pissed that you frame this as a one or the other question because as an American I can accept and applaud both for their responsible exercise of the first amendment.  In fact the only stupid, un-American, anti-constitutional, racially and ethically divisive thing in this whole question is the trucking question in the first place.  Only a MORON would come up with such a stupid question; oh, that's right, this all started with Donald Trump - whom even his Secretary of State considers a MORON.

 

pubby

 

PS: And you people back this divisive crap?????



#49 Dana

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 04:55 PM

Lol

There but for the grace of God, go I.

 

                                   


#50 CitizenCain

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:26 PM

 Vice President Pence proved Sunday he is every bit as sleazy as his game show host boss. 

 

Pence’s pathetic stunt tells us a lot about him

 

The first rule of blatant political stunts is not to let on that they are blatant political stunts. Pence was acting not out of spontaneous patriotism but out of blind loyalty to a president who reduces everyone around him to a sleazy character on a reality TV show.

 

... the tab for the flight alone would have topped $250,000.

 

To recap: Pence wasted taxpayer money, participated in a Trumpian divisive gambit to stoke racial animosity and made himself look like a spineless errand boy. Those who cheer him — including his legion of evangelical conservative supporters — should reflect upon the extent to which Trump has corrupted (morally, politically, intellectually) Pence — and them.

 

 

https://www.washingt...m=.13514d41bb26

 

 


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"Every critic, every detractor, will have to bow down to President Trump,"
 
 

 
 

 

#51 El Zorro

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:41 PM

I see some football teams are setting rules prohibiting their players from protesting during the national anthem.  I also saw another story that the Colin Kapernick who started all of this, has said he will no longer take a knee during the anthem if a team signs him.  If this is true, then wouldn't that mean he's selling out on his principles?


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#52 The Postman

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:15 AM

I saw soldiers come home from Vietnam just as prejudice as they were when they went in. I don't know how they were over there, however! 

 

Why respect a flag that requires you to trust in God, with liberty and justice for all, when that a GD lie?  

 

American TV officials deleted Shaka ZULU movie scene, that clams justice for all. 

 


Edited by The Postman, 10 October 2017 - 10:20 AM.

"The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the whole taxes of the General Government are levied. ... Our revenues liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." ~ The Chief Author of our Declaration of Independence

#53 Jamie Weaver

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:45 AM

I see some football teams are setting rules prohibiting their players from protesting during the national anthem.  I also saw another story that the Colin Kapernick who started all of this, has said he will no longer take a knee during the anthem if a team signs him.  If this is true, then wouldn't that mean he's selling out on his principles?

 

Frankly, I don't place much trust in a radical chic being a "principled" person(s) to begin with... The idiot was wearing a Castro t-shirt to a press conference.  I put about as much faith in his principles as I do Trump honoring his wedding vows.

 

- Jamie


Edited by Jamie Weaver, 10 October 2017 - 10:46 AM.

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"I have always tried to [tell the truth], but the Russians made me do it."  - Hillary Clinton

 

 

 


#54 CitizenCain

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:03 AM

I see some football teams are setting rules prohibiting their players from protesting during the national anthem.  I also saw another story that the Colin Kapernick who started all of this, has said he will no longer take a knee during the anthem if a team signs him.  If this is true, then wouldn't that mean he's selling out on his principles?

 

I would go as far to say that neither you or anyone else on this board would be willing to pay the price for his principles that Colin Kaepernick  has. 


"Every critic, every detractor, will have to bow down to President Trump,"
 
 

 
 

 

#55 The Postman

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:07 AM

 

Frankly, I don't place much trust in a radical chic being a "principled" person(s) to begin with... The idiot was wearing a Castro t-shirt to a press conference.  I put about as much faith in his principles as I do Trump honoring his wedding vows.

 

- Jamie

 

 

Is that your principled idea, J W? 

 

Mine is, "stand your ground" no matter who you are nor where you came from. Also, if I want to kneel it ain't nobody's business!

 

I don't care much for football, but these kneelers are some of the best players. And, hell no they don't get justice for all. If you're a black man you'll get dead quicker than a white man.     


Edited by The Postman, 10 October 2017 - 11:08 AM.

"The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the whole taxes of the General Government are levied. ... Our revenues liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." ~ The Chief Author of our Declaration of Independence

#56 El Zorro

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:14 AM

 

I would go as far to say that neither you or anyone else on this board would be willing to pay the price for his principles that Colin Kaepernick  has. 

Here's the problem with him; he didn't think of the consequences that could occur for his actions.  There were much better ways he could have let his opinions be known.


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#57 Jamie Weaver

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:15 AM

 

 

Is that your principled idea, J W? 

 

Mine is, "stand your ground" no matter who you are nor where you came from. Also, if I want to kneel it ain't nobody's business!

 

I don't care much for football, but these kneelers are some of the best players. And, hell no they don't get justice for all. If you're a black man you'll get dead quicker than a white man.     

 

How exactly does Castro reign of terror align with radical chic's principles?  Black is white and up is down....

 

- Jamie


"I have always tried to [tell the truth], but the Russians made me do it."  - Hillary Clinton

 

 

 


#58 october

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:25 AM

I struggle to see what is so disrespectful about kneeling instead of standing for the national anthem.

Kneeling can be a sign of respect. Kneeling instead of standing says, I won't disrespect the flag, but I am not happy with the current state of affairs in my country.

No one is burning the flag, spitting on it or otherwise disrespecting it. The kneelers are respectful, but making it clear that they disagree with the racial politics currently in play.

 

I support both.


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#59 The Postman

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:25 AM

 

How exactly does Castro reign of terror align with radical chic's principles?  Black is white and up is down....

 

- Jamie

 

Castro's principals were to get rid of the American Mob, 

 

 

http://in1959.blogsp...havana-mob.html

 

 

I don't blame him for that. I do blame him for allowing Chuchev to stock nukes in Cuba! 


Edited by The Postman, 10 October 2017 - 11:27 AM.

"The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the whole taxes of the General Government are levied. ... Our revenues liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." ~ The Chief Author of our Declaration of Independence

#60 CitizenCain

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:45 AM

I struggle to see what is so disrespectful about kneeling instead of standing for the national anthem.

Kneeling can be a sign of respect. Kneeling instead of standing says, I won't disrespect the flag, but I am not happy with the current state of affairs in my country.

No one is burning the flag, spitting on it or otherwise disrespecting it. The kneelers are respectful, but making it clear that they disagree with the racial politics currently in play.

 

I support both.

 

It's a false narrative everyone with a brain knows that it is, making it about god, country and mom's apple pie is just a way to act patriotic while at the same squashing the real message. Maybe because it makes them uncomfortable or maybe it's because they support state sponsored killing of unarmed men. Who knows? 


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"Every critic, every detractor, will have to bow down to President Trump,"
 
 

 
 

 

#61 The Postman

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:50 AM

What it is, CC, is that no matter what Evangelical Christians say about the flag, about Jesus Christ, or about justice for all it's the truth. With that said, it's actually a GD lie.  


"The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the whole taxes of the General Government are levied. ... Our revenues liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." ~ The Chief Author of our Declaration of Independence

#62 mrshoward

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 01:36 PM

 

 

8)


A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable,
who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there
are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles.


- Joseph Addison

#63 Domestic Violence by Proxy

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 01:41 PM

Bears and Vikings are not a big draw. Not to mention a lot of people were already boycotting the NFL prior to the start of the season because Kap didn't make a roster.

 


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#64 mrshoward

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:02 PM

flash in the pan (plural flashes in the pan) (idiomatic) A transient occurrence with no long-term effect. 

 

8) 


A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable,
who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there
are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles.


- Joseph Addison

#65 Domestic Violence by Proxy

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:10 PM

flash in the pan (plural flashes in the pan) (idiomatic) A transient occurrence with no long-term effect. 

 

8) 

Really? Where are your references to support your conclusion? I can say for a fact that I know many that still won't watch the NFL because Kap isn't signed.


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#66 jenilyn

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:19 PM

Really? Where are your references to support your conclusion? I can say for a fact that I know many that still won't watch the NFL because Kap isn't signed.


You are correct. The boycott started at the beginning of the season over Kaepernick not being signed. I guess it depends on who you know but most people I know boycotting are doing so for that reason.
No man ever stands taller than when he kneels to help another.

If they laugh at you because you're different, laugh at them because they're all the same.

#67 mrshoward

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:54 PM

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt... 

 

 

:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:


A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable,
who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there
are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles.


- Joseph Addison

#68 jenilyn

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:58 PM

Well I guess when you get all of your news from blogs and only sources that you agree with you miss out on a whole bunch of other stuff.
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No man ever stands taller than when he kneels to help another.

If they laugh at you because you're different, laugh at them because they're all the same.

#69 jenilyn

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 03:02 PM

From September 7th-

https://www.sbnation...olin-kaepernick
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No man ever stands taller than when he kneels to help another.

If they laugh at you because you're different, laugh at them because they're all the same.

#70 mrshoward

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 03:26 PM



Well I guess when you get all of your news from blogs and only sources that you agree with you miss out on a whole bunch of other stuff.

 

Your assumptions say more about you than they do about me...

 

8)


A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable,
who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there
are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles.


- Joseph Addison

#71 Domestic Violence by Proxy

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 03:36 PM

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt... 

 

 

:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

 

Hmmm... what is it called when someone without facts clings to their beliefs in the face of facts to the contrary? Cognitive dissonance?  8)


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#72 cptlo306

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:02 PM

 

Hmmm... what is it called when someone without facts clings to their beliefs in the face of facts to the contrary? 

 

Liberalism.   8)


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This post is sarcasm.  Unless it's not.

#73 mrshoward

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:12 PM

 

Hmmm... what is it called when someone without facts clings to their beliefs in the face of facts to the contrary? Cognitive dissonance?  8)

 

 

These are the facts from today :

 

GOODELL: 'EVERYONE SHOULD STAND'... 
NFL Owners Consider Rule Change Requiring It... 
'Quietly Tweaks' Policy Giving Teams Power To Punish... 
'MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL' Ratings Fall To Season Low... 

 

:p 


A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable,
who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there
are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles.


- Joseph Addison

#74 Glassdogs

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:12 PM

You are correct. The boycott started at the beginning of the season over Kaepernick not being signed. I guess it depends on who you know but most people I know boycotting are doing so for that reason.

 

Really?    I thought his not getting signed had everything to do with him being a crappy QB.  


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Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist".

 

 

I guess you haven't been to Detroit recently?  Or, Newark or East St.Louis or Gary, IN, or Stockton, CA?

 

You know, those bastions of liberal Democrat government that have been so successful in attracting wealthy, educated leaders and businesspeople.  Progressive people,  who have uplifted the poorer of their brethren, so their city can be that bright example of how well Socialism works.


#75 jenilyn

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:20 PM

Really?    I thought his not getting signed had everything to do with him being a crappy QB.


I can't speak to that because I don't watch or care about football.
No man ever stands taller than when he kneels to help another.

If they laugh at you because you're different, laugh at them because they're all the same.

#76 Domestic Violence by Proxy

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:32 PM

 

Really?    I thought his not getting signed had everything to do with him being a crappy QB.  

Kap's career interception rating is only second to Aaron Rogers. He has a QBR that is better than half of the NFLs backup QBs. https://www.washingt....cf13e06b3e52as

 

It is estimated that he could start on at least 10 teams based on his career numbers.


Edited by Domestic Violence by Proxy, 10 October 2017 - 04:34 PM.

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#77 El Zorro

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:34 PM

I struggle to see what is so disrespectful about kneeling instead of standing for the national anthem.

Kneeling can be a sign of respect. Kneeling instead of standing says, I won't disrespect the flag, but I am not happy with the current state of affairs in my country.

No one is burning the flag, spitting on it or otherwise disrespecting it. The kneelers are respectful, but making it clear that they disagree with the racial politics currently in play.

 

I support both.

Where did you come up with that BS?


Golly gee willickers.

#78 Domestic Violence by Proxy

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:35 PM

Well since you can't come up with facts to support your conclusions just push unrelated facts. That's always good for your credibility.  8)


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#79 Domestic Violence by Proxy

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:39 PM

Where did you come up with that BS?

Where did you come up with the BS idea that protests were against the flag and veterans?


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#80 jenilyn

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:57 PM

Where did you come up with that BS?


It was a veteran who sat down and had a talk with Kaepernick who suggested he take a knee instead of sitting on the bench.

Again, some of you really need to step out of your bubble.
http://www.snopes.co...-a-knee-anthem/
No man ever stands taller than when he kneels to help another.

If they laugh at you because you're different, laugh at them because they're all the same.




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