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59 dead in Las Vegas shooting - 500+ injured


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#1 Captain Rhett Butler

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 05:28 AM

http://www.dailymail...Bay-Resort.html

 

20 dead. Wow. What a way to start the week with news like this. Happy Monday folks. 


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#2 CreativeOne

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 05:54 AM

Latest update I just heard is 50+ dead, 200+ wounded.

Shooter dead - 64 yo male.  Looking for his "companion".

 

so very very sad.


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#3 Dana

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 06:03 AM

So very tragic and sad...prayers. :(

There but for the grace of God, go I.

 

                                   


#4 mrshoward

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 06:17 AM

My niece is in Las Vegas... we have not heard from her yet.

 

:(


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#5 Dana

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:29 AM

My niece is in Las Vegas... we have not heard from her yet.
 
:(


I pray that you hear from her soon, please keep us posted.

There but for the grace of God, go I.

 

                                   


#6 mrshoward

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:37 AM

I pray that you hear from her soon, please keep us posted.

 

 

Okay, she is fine. They flew home just before the shooting.

 

She was at the Mandalay Bay concert on Saturday night...

 

Huge sigh of relief and praying for the families of these murder victims.

 

 

:(  :(  :(

 

:(  :(  :(  


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A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable,
who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there
are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles.


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#7 Dana

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 09:31 AM

Okay, she is fine. They flew home just before the shooting.
 
She was at the Mandalay Bay concert on Saturday night...
 
Huge sigh of relief and praying for the families of these murder victims.
 
 
:(  :(  :(
 
:(  :(  :(


Thank God she's ok!

Praying for everyone. :(
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There but for the grace of God, go I.

 

                                   


#8 mrshoward

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:54 AM

The motive remains a mystery... this is a really bizarre crime.

 

:huh: 


Edited by mrshoward, 02 October 2017 - 11:54 AM.

A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable,
who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there
are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles.


- Joseph Addison

#9 Blondiega1

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:26 PM

Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if he had a gambling problem.

 

 'He seemed normal, other than that he lived by gambling. He was very open about that,' Sharon Judy told Florida Today. 'First time we ever met him, he handed us the key to the house and said, 'Hey, would keep an eye on the house, we're only going to be here every now and then.''

On the times that they visited the home, they say it was sparsely furnished, with only a few chairs, a bed in each bedroom and a few laptops. Paddock reportedly told them that he and his girlfriend would stay up all night gambling.

 

http://www.dailymail...social-facebook


.






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#10 Lady Raider

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 02:40 PM

so sad... 


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#11 CitizenCain

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:50 PM

I think Bill O'Reilly managed to sum up nicely how Republicans feel about this.

 

 

Las Vegas Shooting Is ‘Price of Freedom,' Bill O’Reilly Says,‘Even the Loons’ Have Right to Own Guns

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-214603936.html

 

 

Let Freedom Ring.


I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any honorable Gentleman will question it.  -John Stuart Mill
 
 


#12 cptlo306

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:40 PM

I think Bill O'Reilly managed to sum up nicely how Republicans feel about this.

 

 

Las Vegas Shooting Is ‘Price of Freedom,' Bill O’Reilly Says,‘Even the Loons’ Have Right to Own Guns

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-214603936.html

 

 

Let Freedom Ring.

 

Please name one specific law that would have prevented this.


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#13 CitizenCain

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:15 PM

 

Please name one specific law that would have prevented this.

 

Please tell me why anyone needs the kind of weaponry that allows someone to kill and wound 600 people in 15 minutes. Tell me why the Republicans passed a bill a couple of months ago that makes it easier for the mentally ill to buy guns and why someone deemed too dangerous to board a plane safe enough to own an AR15. Why Republicans are today working on a bill that allows people to own silencers, silencers for god's sake. Why something as basic as outlawing 30 rd magazines infringe on people's right to buy arms and why the parts that allowed this man to convert a semi automatic into a full automatic is available over the internet. Tell me why when anyone even dares to ask for a reasonable debate on this people throw up their hands and say nothing can be done. Maybe nothing can stop this, but the NRA conservative are not even interested in slowing it down. Maybe at least with silencers we can sleep peacefully through the next mass murder. 


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I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any honorable Gentleman will question it.  -John Stuart Mill
 
 


#14 mrshoward

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 05:46 AM

Admin editorial: Gun control in the wake of the Vegas shooting.

In the aftermath of the horrific massacre in Las Vegas, many people are calling for more restrictions on the ownership of guns.

Unfortunately, rarely do these gun control proposals actually produce the intended results.

For example, the Vegas shooter used an automatic firearm (or illegally converted a semi-auto to automatic) which is virtually entirely illegal for civilian ownership.

Moreover, he stockpiled anywhere from 12-17 other firearms in his hotel room, meaning any laws limiting the capacity of firearm magazines wouldn't have stopped him either.

If anything this is just another case where popular gun control proposals has not or could not prevent the act of violence in question.

The uncomfortable reality is sometimes, evil people are going to get away with evil things because they are smart enough to evade or overcome the legal obstacles that are meant to stop them.

Look at the San Bernardino shooting, where the shooter used guns illegal in California.

Look at the Charlie Hebdo shootings and the November 2015 Paris attacks, which involved the use of firearms that were illegal in France.

Look at the attack in Nice, France which left 70 innocent people dead from being run over by a terrorist in a truck.

Look at the bombing of the Arianna Grande concert in the United Kingdom, where guns are also illegal. Look at the bombing of the airport in Brussels which left over 30 dead.

We tell ourselves that "if only we had more gun control we could've stopped this massacre."

It's a feel good illusion. Mass murderers have proven themselves time and again to be way more creative and determined than we feel comfortable giving them credit for.

The gun control crowd wants us to continue relinquishing gun rights in what can only be described as a sad and desperate attempt to convince ourselves of the false reality that everything can be controlled.

The truth is that sometimes the bad guys win regardless of the preventative measures you adopt.

That doesn't mean nothing should be done, but lets not fool ourselves into pursuing gun control measures which infringe on people's constitutional rights, which are ineffective, and which provide little more than a false sense of security.

 

- Being Classically Liberal

 

8)


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A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable,
who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there
are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles.


- Joseph Addison

#15 Brian

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 05:50 AM

My former girlfriend's old teacher Kevin and his bride were in Vegas at the Bellagio Resort & Casino, not far from the shooting site. They said bunch of people were running all over the place and that the staff was not prepared to handle such last minute. They were there for Kevin's father's wedding. Their plane back to Oakland was delayed for couple of hours.


Edited by Brian, 03 October 2017 - 05:51 AM.


#16 cptlo306

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 06:41 AM

 

Admin editorial: Gun control in the wake of the Vegas shooting.

In the aftermath of the horrific massacre in Las Vegas, many people are calling for more restrictions on the ownership of guns.

Unfortunately, rarely do these gun control proposals actually produce the intended results.

For example, the Vegas shooter used an automatic firearm (or illegally converted a semi-auto to automatic) which is virtually entirely illegal for civilian ownership.

Moreover, he stockpiled anywhere from 12-17 other firearms in his hotel room, meaning any laws limiting the capacity of firearm magazines wouldn't have stopped him either.

If anything this is just another case where popular gun control proposals has not or could not prevent the act of violence in question.

The uncomfortable reality is sometimes, evil people are going to get away with evil things because they are smart enough to evade or overcome the legal obstacles that are meant to stop them.

Look at the San Bernardino shooting, where the shooter used guns illegal in California.

Look at the Charlie Hebdo shootings and the November 2015 Paris attacks, which involved the use of firearms that were illegal in France.

Look at the attack in Nice, France which left 70 innocent people dead from being run over by a terrorist in a truck.

Look at the bombing of the Arianna Grande concert in the United Kingdom, where guns are also illegal. Look at the bombing of the airport in Brussels which left over 30 dead.

We tell ourselves that "if only we had more gun control we could've stopped this massacre."

It's a feel good illusion. Mass murderers have proven themselves time and again to be way more creative and determined than we feel comfortable giving them credit for.

The gun control crowd wants us to continue relinquishing gun rights in what can only be described as a sad and desperate attempt to convince ourselves of the false reality that everything can be controlled.

The truth is that sometimes the bad guys win regardless of the preventative measures you adopt.

That doesn't mean nothing should be done, but lets not fool ourselves into pursuing gun control measures which infringe on people's constitutional rights, which are ineffective, and which provide little more than a false sense of security.

 

- Being Classically Liberal

 

8)

 

 

Exactly.   :good:

 

 

I don't get why some people think that someone willing to commit a mass shooting would decide not to do it because there is a law saying the gun(s) he/she plans to use are illegal.  It is common sense....if they are willing to shoot people then they probably don't care about breaking gun laws.


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#17 El Zorro

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 07:24 AM

 

Exactly.   :good:

 

 

I don't get why some people think that someone willing to commit a mass shooting would decide not to do it because there is a law saying the gun(s) he/she plans to use are illegal.  It is common sense....if they are willing to shoot people then they probably don't care about breaking gun laws.

CC wonders how the guy could have wounded 600 people in 15 minutes.  He was shooting into a crowd of more than 1,000 people jammed together.  All the guy had to do was point the barrel of the rifle and start shooting.  It would have been harder for him to miss than anything.


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#18 CitizenCain

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:36 AM

I'll guarantee one thing if this guy's name had been Muhammad the right would be be demanding that something be done but because he's a homegrown loon we are told to 'just get use to it'.


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I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any honorable Gentleman will question it.  -John Stuart Mill
 
 


#19 mojo413

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:39 AM

Exactly.   :good:
 
 
I don't get why some people think that someone willing to commit a mass shooting would decide not to do it because there is a law saying the gun(s) he/she plans to use are illegal.  It is common sense....if they are willing to shoot people then they probably don't care about breaking gun laws.


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#20 PUBBY

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:43 PM

 

Exactly.   :good:

 

 

I don't get why some people think that someone willing to commit a mass shooting would decide not to do it because there is a law saying the gun(s) he/she plans to use are illegal.  It is common sense....if they are willing to shoot people then they probably don't care about breaking gun laws.

 

Liberals know this. That is why they want background checks so that folks who have a proven record of dismissing the sanctity of the law can be identified and those people who sell guns legitimately can follow the law and not sell them the guns - even though they may want to buy or even steal them.

 

While this particular guy didn't have a criminal record, the idea less than three percent of the population owns half the guns, an average of 17 guns each.  The article in the Washington Post in 2016 suggested those who own many guns are fearful and actually have guns, loaded and ready, stashed in various locations in their home.  The level of fear these people exhibit is one remarkable observation.  One question posed by the survey seems prescient. 

 

 

What Azrael and her colleagues don't know is whether owning many guns is a greater risk factor for violence, suicide or accidental injury than owning, say, one or two guns. They will be publishing their full study results in an academic journal next year.

 

Two other observations are worth mentioning.  The first is the flip-flop the country musician on gun control who suggested that his band, which included several folks carrying, realizing that all the guns they had would not protect them from this mass murderer. The other was former Republican Congressman Joe Scarborough who observed that all the folks holding guns to thwart government confiscation have in their mind killing other Americans - the ones they think are coming for their guns. 

 

I'll close with the observation that one could craft a law that prohibits the possession of a firearm in public accommodations.  Hotels, resorts, etc. could be allowed to set aside a room that gun owners could use to store and/or clean their weapons; that facility being hardened and secure. Then, the presence of a weapon in locations other than that room would be a violation of the law and actionable.  Would that have stopped the man?  Maybe, depending on whether anyone caught sight of even one weapon in the room or suspected weapons were present.  Hotels with more than two floors may be required to electronically inspect luggage for patrons on higher floors.

 

pubby



#21 cptlo306

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:54 PM

 

I'll close with the observation that one could craft a law that prohibits the possession of a firearm in public accommodations.  Hotels, resorts, etc. could be allowed to set aside a room that gun owners could use to store and/or clean their weapons; that facility being hardened and secure. Then, the presence of a weapon in locations other than that room would be a violation of the law and actionable.  Would that have stopped the man?  Maybe, depending on whether anyone caught sight of even one weapon in the room or suspected weapons were present.  Hotels with more than two floors may be required to electronically inspect luggage for patrons on higher floors.

 

pubby

 

Again, if someone is determined to commit a mass shooting, do you really think they are going to abide by laws regarding possession of firearms in public accommodations?


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#22 CitizenCain

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 02:06 PM

 

Again, if someone is determined to commit a mass shooting, do you really think they are going to abide by laws regarding possession of firearms in public accommodations?

 

Do you think posting speed limit sign will stop people from speeding ?  Do you think making murder illegal will stop people from killing ? The answer is obvious, I wonder why we bother why not just throw our hands in the air and admit nothing can be done and save ourselves all the time and expense ?   


I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any honorable Gentleman will question it.  -John Stuart Mill
 
 


#23 mrshoward

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 02:24 PM

 

Please name one specific law that would have prevented this.

 

Still waiting...

 

:unknw:  


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A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable,
who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there
are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles.


- Joseph Addison

#24 El Zorro

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 03:02 PM

I'll guarantee one thing if this guy's name had been Muhammad the right would be be demanding that something be done but because he's a homegrown loon we are told to 'just get use to it'.

We wouldn't be stating that gun control is needed.  Also, if he were a Muslim, he'd be dead now like the actual shooter is dead.


Edited by El Zorro, 03 October 2017 - 03:02 PM.

Golly gee willickers.

#25 jenilyn

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 03:13 PM

So, what do we do? Resign to the fact that this is the world we live in now? I'm not anti-gun, we have 3, but damn. Doing nothing isn't helping. I think we can all agree with that.
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#26 Stonewall

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 03:29 PM

I myself and most of my friends/family own multiple guns. Some own numbers that make this guy look like and amateur. Some own guns equivalent to the type this guy had (full auto). No one I know has ever threatened or shot anyone because they have these guns available. The answer is not giving up your constitutional rights. The NRA and the SCOTUS will not allow the right to keep and bear arms to be abolished in my lifetime. Take that to the bank. I used to believe that no one needs an "assault type" rifle and I still see the argument against them. However my distrust in the government makes me side with the give them an inch they will take a mile mentality. Give up one right and next week you won't have any. JMO.
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#27 cptlo306

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 04:35 PM

So, what do we do? Resign to the fact that this is the world we live in now? I'm not anti-gun, we have 3, but damn. Doing nothing isn't helping. I think we can all agree with that.

 

Unfortunately short of banning and confiscating all guns, which isn't possible or constitutional, this is the world we live in now.  And even if the govt did confiscate all guns, people determined to kill will find a way (trucks, bombs, etc.).  There is no good answer.


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#28 PUBBY

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:03 PM

 

Again, if someone is determined to commit a mass shooting, do you really think they are going to abide by laws regarding possession of firearms in public accommodations?

 

First, recognize CC's reply with the notation that he just didn't go far enough.

 

 

Do you think posting speed limit sign will stop people from speeding ?  Do you think making murder illegal will stop people from killing ? The answer is obvious, I wonder why we bother why not just throw our hands in the air and admit nothing can be done and save ourselves all the time and expense ?   

 

Think drunk driving.  Yep, people still to this day drive drunk but cops, because of the outrage, got on top of DUI and prosecuted and punished a lot of folks.  When I was growing up, the concept of designated driver was not even considered.  Society will never be perfect and people die in wrecks with drunk drivers but literally tens to hundreds of thousands of live have still been saved because cops couldn't stop every DUI - they stopped some and changed the way we perceive alcohol and driving.

 

As far as the 'law' that the guy would break ... right now if you were a bell hop or were room service entering to serve the guy breakfast in his room and saw a rifle stock - one rifle stock - who cares - nobody cares because it is absolutely legal.  Same if he happened to spy a holstered firearm or a small pistol in a partially open drawer.  With that law, if that observation were made early Sunday morning, the law could have been called and this whole tragedy averted.

 

Under the proposal I made, the guy could have a rifle or even three or four in the hotel's safe room - heck, rec shooting at a nearby range could well be a legitimate undertaking but where or what could he shoot on the 32nd floor?  Guests have no business with any gun on the 32nd floor unless they are LEO protecting a witness.

 

pubby



#29 The Postman

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:09 PM

It's a big Christian thing for guns to be allowed every citizen. It doesn't matter what Jesus said in the New Testament, things are different now. 

 

 republican-jesus-what-would-jesus-do-sta


"The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the whole taxes of the General Government are levied. ... Our revenues liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." ~ The Chief Author of our Declaration of Independence

#30 El Zorro

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:26 PM

This guy was anti-Trump and a member of Antifa.


Golly gee willickers.

#31 cptlo306

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:34 PM

This guy was anti-Trump and a member of Antifa.

 

Really? Has that been reported?


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#32 El Zorro

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:37 PM

 

Really? Has that been reported?

I just read it online.  So it has to be true.  It also said he attended an anti-Trump rally this past August.


Edited by El Zorro, 03 October 2017 - 10:38 PM.

Golly gee willickers.

#33 CitizenCain

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:41 PM

 

Really? Has that been reported?

 

When has facts ever stood in the way of El Zero ?


I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any honorable Gentleman will question it.  -John Stuart Mill
 
 


#34 El Zorro

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:43 PM

 

When has facts ever stood in the way of El Zero ?

When has facts ever stood in your way with half the cheeze you regurgitate from liberal websites?  When asked to prove it, you turn it around and want us to prove it's wrong.  So if you feel this guy wasn't anti-Trump and not a member of Antifa, prove it.


Golly gee willickers.

#35 The Postman

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 11:23 PM

 

When has facts ever stood in the way of El Zero ?

 

E Z wouldn't know a fact if it jumped up and bit him in the a$$, CC! Conservative propaganda is facts to him. 


"The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the whole taxes of the General Government are levied. ... Our revenues liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." ~ The Chief Author of our Declaration of Independence

#36 Captain Rhett Butler

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 07:45 AM

While I do strongly support 2nd amendment rights, something has to be done about these kinds of assault weapons on our streets. 

 

Don't think for a moment that our enemies won't conduct a copy cat attack on a big crowd (church services, parades, new years eve celebration, ball stadiums, concerts, etc. ) It's not a matter "if" a copycat is going to strike, but "when".  From what we can tell, most of these shootings aren't radical islamist, but homegrown anti-government whackos.  


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#37 jenilyn

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 07:47 AM

While I do strongly support 2nd amendment rights, something has to be done about these kinds of assault weapons on our streets. 
 
Don't think for a moment that our enemies won't conduct a copy cat attack on a big crowd (church services, parades, new years eve celebration, ball stadiums, concerts, etc. ) It's not a matter "if" a copycat is going to strike, but "when".  From what we can tell, most of these shootings aren't radical islamist, but homegrown anti-government whackos.


Holy cow. I agree with you! :D
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#38 mrshoward

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 07:50 AM

While I do strongly support 2nd amendment rights, something has to be done about these kinds of assault weapons on our streets. 
 
Don't think for a moment that our enemies won't conduct a copy cat attack on a big crowd (church services, parades, new years eve celebration, ball stadiums, concerts, etc. ) It's not a matter "if" a copycat is going to strike, but "when".  From what we can tell, most of these shootings aren't radical islamist, but homegrown anti-government whackos.

Assault weapon is a political term, not functionally different than any other semi automatic. Most homicides are committed with handguns.
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A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable,
who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there
are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles.


- Joseph Addison

#39 El Zorro

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:21 AM

 

E Z wouldn't know a fact if it jumped up and bit him in the a$$, CC! Conservative propaganda is facts to him. 

Once again you prove yourself to be the village idiot.


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Golly gee willickers.

#40 LPPT

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 09:13 AM

I myself and most of my friends/family own multiple guns. Some own numbers that make this guy look like and amateur. Some own guns equivalent to the type this guy had (full auto). No one I know has ever threatened or shot anyone because they have these guns available. The answer is not giving up your constitutional rights. The NRA and the SCOTUS will not allow the right to keep and bear arms to be abolished in my lifetime. Take that to the bank. I used to believe that no one needs an "assault type" rifle and I still see the argument against them. However my distrust in the government makes me side with the give them an inch they will take a mile mentality. Give up one right and next week you won't have any. JMO.

Actually, the theory that gun collectors and those that get off by firing hundreds of ammo are never the ones we need worry about has been proven wrong. We have been told over and over that we should have the right to own magazines that hold more than 5 or six rounds. Modifiers are legal as well. We should never infringe on these innocent little hobbies by the sweetest most caring humans in our society. We all know they are very stable, not the least bit paranoid. We are assured that they don't feel it gives them authority and control over others. We feel they will protect us from our own government( Waco Texas) is a fine example. Who knows there could be a recession or total economic collapse leading to rioting and looting because there won't be enough food. Thankfully we just weathered a serious recession without violence, that could not have been because our social safety nets were properly used.

 

I have never objected to the ownership of firearms even for personal protection. There is a new generation of politically driven gun owner that scares me. At this point and time, we could never get enough guns from their owners to make a difference in what is going to happen if the political climate continues as it is going

Maybe the NRA could be persuaded to take all that lobby money and open free mental health clinic around the country.

 

My best guess is that the drama will fade and the NRA and other gun lobbyists will double down.


El Zorro

 

As far as releasing my name here, it's not going to happen.  There have been people here who found someone's given name and then found where they worked and made things difficult for them - all because they didn't like them here because of their political opinions.

 





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