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Chairman claims appointment right on IBA; post commissioners divided

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Appointment's to IBA 'skipped'



In a scene that conjured nervous laughs, the Paulding Board of Commissioners efforts to move along in the agenda literally ground to a halt as no motion - even motions to table the appointments of Matt Buzzelli and Alan Shipp to the Industrial Building Authority - seemed able to pass, or in many cases, even gain a second.

The scenario of motions that either died for lack of a second, or were seconded only to fail to gain a majority was replayed like a broken record to the amusement of the gallery - so much so that Pat Tibbits, clerk of the Commission warned the crowd that the incident was not funny. Still motions were offered and rejected for denying the appointments, tabling the appointments, approving the appointments with no majority for going on fifteen minutes.

The scene was based on the commissions annual housekeeping task of making appointments - most are re-appointments - to the various county boards, commissions and authorities.

While the vast majority of the appointments were passed along as the housekeeping task it normally is, three re-appointments were targeted for controversy - those to the IBA (above) and the reappointment of Kerry Tidmore to the Airport Authority.

The contentiousness surrounding the appointments was expected as the three anti-airport post commissioners elected in last May's Republican primary have made it a point to thwart, punish, convince to resign, or threaten to remove from office any they feel they can reach that they feel had anything to do with the decision to pursue a commercial airport license. That included virtually everyone with a seat on the Industrial Building Authority and Airport Authority.

The bombshell dropped by Commission Chairman David Austin, prior to the afternoon meeting, was a legal opinion rendered by Marietta attorney and former Governor Roy Barnes, who wrote a letter suggesting that appointments to the IBA and Airport Authority were in the exclusive domain of the Commission Chairman. The legal opinion letter went on to say that the confirmation votes by the post commissioners sitting as the BOC were at best, a courtesy conveyed by the Chairman. Part of the basis for that is there was no legislative change associated with the appointment power of the county's CEO - the Chairman - for these posts in county government from the time Paulding had a single Commissioner/ordinary and that elected Ordinary had that exclusive power.

Post III Commissioner Vernon Collette objected and disputed that opinion but apparently was more inclined to support Mr. Buzelli for re-appointment to the post.

His support for Mr. Buzelli conflicted with the desire of Post II Commissioner Todd Pownall, who had up until today, appeared to be the leader of the three insurgent commissioners and, because of the majority vote he seemed to control, the tacit chairman. Indeed, it is widely anticipated that Mr. Pownall will challenge former Post I Commissioner David Carmichael for the chairman's position in next May's primary election. Mr. Carmichael has already announced for that position and resigned earlier in November in order to save the county money by scheduling his replacement's election to coincide with the Super-Tuesday Presidential Preference Primary in Georgia this spring.

The matter was finally resolved when Mr. Pownall, who had been insisting on the formal rejection of all appointments gave in and allowed the matter to be tabled until January after it was agreed that the county attorney would gather other legal opinions from the ACCG and/or other attorney's. The belief is those opinions would state the appointment power of the Chairman was not as great as he asserted and that the post commissioners' approval of the Chairman's appointments to the IBA and Airport Authority are more than a courtesy.

Chairman Austin asserted that the current members will continue to serve at his pleasure beyond their stated terms and may, depending on the results of the opinions and/or yet another court case, have their appointments renewed on the Chairman's authority.
 
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The airport deal started off on the wrong foot.

Then it continued on the wrong foot.

Then people dug their heels in. (all sides)

Then it got ugly.

Then people dug their heels in deeper. (all sides)

Then it got uglier.

And now we are all paying lawyers to figure out a mess that we should never have had to start with.

 

#LawyersWin

#GetToCourt

#MoveOnFromThere

Edited by stradial
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Lord have mercy.

Really, Lord have mercy on all of us taxpayers for paying through the nose for the games these people play. Sounds like school.

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Pubby I so much wish that you would publish the news accurately and quit trying to be the news.

First Commissioner Carmichael did not quit his post in February as you imply but rather he quit his post on November 10 2015 arguably to save the County some money for a special election.

 

This was something dreamed up by Commissioner Carmichael and others solely for the purpose or getting a head start on the competition in his race for Commission Chairman, THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT HE COULD HAVE QUIT HIS POST ON FEBRUARY 10, 2016 with the same results

 

By quitting the post on November 10,2015 former commissioner Carmichael missed several important votes, and a lot of discussion on several key issues such as the votes on the Industrial Building authority, The Airport Authority.

 

By quitting his post # 1 early, Post one will not have any representation on several key boards of great importance right now with the reservoir getting underway post 1 will not have a representative on the water and sewerage board The fire advisory board, The Planning and Zoning Board The, Zoning Board of Appeals And the Animal control hearing board until at least March/April 2016, And of course he missed a key vote on a $15,000,000 pipeline project voted on today. Along with several other key votes totaling hundreds of thousands of Dollars.

 

Pubby you missed the coronation of King David Austin today when he took the position that he alone solely had the right to the appointments of the vacancies on the Airport Board and the Industrial Building Authority even though he previously recommended and allowed votes for members to these boards as recent as the last time one of these vacancies came open and further stated that the folks would stay on these boards regardless of the vote outcome of the other commissioners until a court told him different. SO>>>>>>>>>>>> here we go he got him a outside lawyer already and made this decision and now another outside law firm will be retained to resolve the issue on appointments and the saga will continue until 1/12/16

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Pubby I so much wish that you would publish the news accurately and quit trying to be the news.

First Commissioner Carmichael did not quit his post in February as you imply but rather he quit his post on November 10 2015 arguably to save the County some money for a special election.

 

This was something dreamed up by Commissioner Carmichael and others solely for the purpose or getting a head start on the competition in his race for Commission Chairman, THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT HE COULD HAVE QUIT HIS POST ON FEBRUARY 10, 2016 with the same results

 

By quitting the post on November 10,2015 former commissioner Carmichael missed several important votes, and a lot of discussion on several key issues such as the votes on the Industrial Building authority, The Airport Authority.

 

By quitting his post # 1 early, Post one will not have any representation on several key boards of great importance right now with the reservoir getting underway post 1 will not have a representative on the water and sewerage board The fire advisory board, The Planning and Zoning Board The, Zoning Board of Appeals And the Animal control hearing board until at least March/April 2016, And of course he missed a key vote on a $15,000,000 pipeline project voted on today. Along with several other key votes totaling hundreds of thousands of Dollars.

 

Pubby you missed the coronation of King David Austin today when he took the position that he alone solely had the right to the appointments of the vacancies on the Airport Board and the Industrial Building Authority even though he previously recommended and allowed votes for members to these boards as recent as the last time one of these vacancies came open and further stated that the folks would stay on these boards regardless of the vote outcome of the other commissioners until a court told him different. SO>>>>>>>>>>>> here we go he got him a outside lawyer already and made this decision and now another outside law firm will be retained to resolve the issue on appointments and the saga will continue until 1/12/16

 

I beg to differ Whitey:

It is well known that David Carmichael resigned in early November; February being in the future. The suggestion above that it was in February was an error and will be corrected. I was thinking ahead to the next deadline when Mr. Pownall may elect to resign so he can make his run for Chairman.

 

BTW: I was there this afternoon. I sat in the back of the room.

 

As far as your suggestion of he Chairman as King, David Austin was simply asserting the power that the Chairman has traditionally held. That contrasted with Mr. Pownall who wrongly asserted that post commissioners had commonly voted against and rejected appointments made by the Chairman in the past, I have to say that I don't recall one such instance. There may have been disagreements over appointees but those conflicts were, as a matter of 'custom', handled behind the scenes ... and certainly not with the drama of today's broken record.

 

Does the Chairman have that power? Certainly he had it at the time of the creation of the IBA and AA as there were no post commissioners in the form of government at the time.

 

I don't think Mr. Pownall or Mr. Collette can point to a time when there was a clear action to make the appointments a matter of confirmation as a matter of law. Mr. Pownall pointed to custom and Mr. Austin asserted that custom was simply courtesy ... as stated in the story.

 

As former Speaker Tom Murphy told former Commission Chairman Johnny Helms ... "Johnny, do what you want to do until a superior court judge tells you otherwise."

 

That is the power of the chairman and that is why he gets the big bucks ... and big headaches.

 

pubby

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I agree, the government is being run by the Marx Brothers, only it ain't funny like the real Marx Brothers were.

(and by government, I mean all parties. Republican, Democrat and anything in between)

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Pubby's opinions from a few years ago and a question.

 

I remember the 1st time I sat down with Pubby and he explained to me the fact (in his opinion) that this county was ran by (6 or 7, I can't remember which) "good ole boy" families.

Families that were crooked and ran the county like their personal playground.

And he was the fighter for the little people, the people without a strong voice, the people that the leaders of the county just ran over to get what they wanted for them and their cronies.

 

Now I had never heard of this (6 or 7) family county "mafia" (my word) before, but I was assured it existed and that they were out to do what they wanted, regardless if the county was served well or not.

(turns out I was good friends with at least (5 or 6) people in these families, but sadly, they are the black sheep of the families, not the big movers and shakers)

 

 

Now my question.

Have things with these families changed that much in the past 3-4 years so that none of what I was told no longer applies or has Pubby changed?

 

 

Ohhh, just for the record, I take each person as they come and I don't know enough about the "families of Paulding" to make any judgement about whether what Pubby told me was correct or not.

So please do not take this post to mean that what I was told was correct or incorrect, it was one man's opinion.

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Stradial

 

I've never suggested the county was run by six or seven families.

 

I've always contended there were two major factions - one the "Dallas Crowd" and the 'not Dallas Crowd." The two groups swapped power every four years going back to the times of the single ordinary as county CEO.

 

The various factions were notable because they tended to spend the county to near ruin at the last of the four years and were justifiably booted out leaving the other faction to struggle to govern the first year, get a handle the second, do something the third and try to get re-elected by spending all the money. They never succeeded until the not Dallas group headed initially by Bill Carruth and followed by Jerry Shearin had a 12 year run.

 

Having doing news in various small cities and counties, I've generally had the opinion that Paulding, while not perfect, was not grossly corrupt (with a few exceptions - the list starting with former Sheriff Perry Grogan) You must have me confused with someone else because. while I've heard this 'family' thing of which you speak, I've never subscribed to that.

 

pubby

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The airport deal started off on the wrong foot.

Then it continued on the wrong foot.

Then people dug their heels in. (all sides)

Then it got ugly.

Then people dug their heels in deeper. (all sides)

Then it got uglier.

And now we are all paying lawyers to figure out a mess that we should never have had to start with.

 

#LawyersWin

#GetToCourt

#MoveOnFromThere

And paying for years to come. Just watched the afternoon BOC Mtg. I can imagine legal fees out the window. I truly believe most of this mess that has divided the community could be put to rest if the CEO/ Chairman would go to Court. Be done with it, yet the fight continues. But you can not complain about folks getting involved after a year or so being a secret deal. IMO, no doubt a sour issue.

 

Seriously, a few of you know the County bankrupted a known poster on this site because the County did not want to show face in Court. Sad, very sad.

 

Yet you have a divided BOC arguing, although the only one that sits on the IBA and PCAA is the Chairman of the BOC!!! SNAP! Think about it

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Stradial

 

I've never suggested the county was run by six or seven families.

 

I've always contended there were two major factions - one the "Dallas Crowd" and the 'not Dallas Crowd." The two groups swapped power every four years going back to the times of the single ordinary as county CEO.

 

The various factions were notable because they tended to spend the county to near ruin at the last of the four years and were justifiably booted out leaving the other faction to struggle to govern the first year, get a handle the second, do something the third and try to get re-elected by spending all the money. They never succeeded until the not Dallas group headed initially by Bill Carruth and followed by Jerry Shearin had a 12 year run.

 

Having doing news in various small cities and counties, I've generally had the opinion that Paulding, while not perfect, was not grossly corrupt (with a few exceptions - the list starting with former Sheriff Perry Grogan) You must have me confused with someone else because. while I've heard this 'family' thing of which you speak, I've never subscribed to that.

 

pubby

 

WOW!!!!

I mean...just WOW!!!!

 

OK Pubby.

I dreamed all that.

I guess I also dreamed my response, which was, "I am good friends with someone from all but one of those families. But sadly, for me, they are the black sheeps of the families."

 

I won't even go into the fact, again, that this was the first time I ever heard about the 6 or 7 families, much less had them named for me.

You say it didn't happen, then fine "it didn't happen".

I just "dreamed" it.

 

I guess your reply is in it's self an answer to my question.

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And paying for years to come. Just watched the afternoon BOC Mtg. I can imagine legal fees out the window. I truly believe most of this mess that has divided the community could be put to rest if the CEO/ Chairman would go to Court. Be done with it, yet the fight continues. But you can not complain about folks getting involved after a year or so being a secret deal. IMO, no doubt a sour issue.

 

Seriously, a few of you know the County bankrupted a known poster on this site because the County did not want to show face in Court. Sad, very sad.

 

Yet you have a divided BOC arguing, although the only one that sits on the IBA and PCAA is the Chairman of the BOC!!! SNAP! Think about it

All of the issues dividing the County could be resolved simply by going to court and hearing the pending cases.

 

David Austin has stonewalled the ultra vires case going into the third year this month, This case could have the impact of resolving the entire airport issue.

 

When David Austin and Boyd Austin have a grip on the Industrial Building Authority and the Airport Authority like they have (or think they have) then nothing is ever going to court to be resolved.

 

Since December 2014 David Austin has been attempting to change the IBA through resolutions passed By the IBA, PCAA and in some Cases the Board of commissioners..

 

What people fail to understand the County Attorneys ( the ones most familiar with the inner workings of the commission) did not make the decision for David Austin to change the manner in which appointees to the IBA and PCAA were handled.

 

Before the meeting, David Secretly (without the knowledge of the other three commissioners) sought out a law firm outside the County and sought a legal opinion that would support his position on this issue , and found one who has HAD NO KNOWLEDGE, How the county has evolved into handling the appointments to the IBA and the PCAA when the county grew from a one man commission to a five man commission.

 

All this can be resolved by hearing the ULTRA VIRES case the has been pending since December 2014

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Before the meeting, David Secretly (without the knowledge of the other three commissioners) sought out a law firm outside the County and sought a legal opinion that would support his position on this issue , and found one who has HAD NO KNOWLEDGE, How the county has evolved into handling the appointments to the IBA and the PCAA when the county grew from a one man commission to a five man commission.

 

Austin works as chairman full-time, does he not? I'm sure there are a lot of things he does in the process of day-to-day operations as chairman that he doesn't report to the commissioners.

 

And while you see him getting a legal opinion from someone with "no knowledge," I'm seeing that he's getting an opinion from an independent attorney — one that doesn't get a paycheck from the county — and I'd venture a guess that Barnes has a bit of legal knowledge, or at the very least, some knowledge of how government works, from, you know, actually serving in government.

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Austin works as chairman full-time, does he not? I'm sure there are a lot of things he does in the process of day-to-day operations as chairman that he doesn't report to the commissioners.

 

And while you see him getting a legal opinion from someone with "no knowledge," I'm seeing that he's getting an opinion from an independent attorney — one that doesn't get a paycheck from the county — and I'd venture a guess that Barnes has a bit of legal knowledge, or at the very least, some knowledge of how government works, from, you know, actually serving in government.

I agree his position as Chairman is a paid full time gig, but he sits on other boards w/in the county and outside the county. I guess my confusion comes in where he went to get an opinion from an outside legal firm. Damn sure did not happen overnight.

 

Furthermore, I find it odd the Chairman hired outside legal counsel regarding something concerning issues he holds a seat on. Sorta not right in my mind.

 

Oh, please encourage the Chairman to take the pending cases to Court and be heard. It just continues to divide the community with his failure

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Austin works as chairman full-time, does he not? I'm sure there are a lot of things he does in the process of day-to-day operations as chairman that he doesn't report to the commissioners.

 

And while you see him getting a legal opinion from someone with "no knowledge," I'm seeing that he's getting an opinion from an independent attorney — one that doesn't get a paycheck from the county — and I'd venture a guess that Barnes has a bit of legal knowledge, or at the very least, some knowledge of how government works, from, you know, actually serving in government.

Nice Green

What I saw was a continuation of the secrecy that seems to follow him around in all of his dealings!!! Since before his election in July 2012

Of Course all the issues surrounding the airport and the secret meetings that have and continue to be held could very easily be resolved.

 

It appears that you along with BeachBum, Jane TY, Rockys Mom and a few more think that David Austin is being honest and above board open and transparent then will you encourage him to hear the Ultra Vires Case that has been pending in the Superior Court of Paulding County since December 2014????

I know that all three of ya'll are interested in all citizens having there day in court, and letting a judge or a jury decide the fate of any illegal or wrong doings.

Will you help me get the cases heard?? Surely you stand firmly behind JUSTICE FOR ALL??? RIGHT!!!!!

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Nice Green

What I saw was a continuation of the secrecy that seems to follow him around in all of his dealings!!! Since before his election in July 2012

Of Course all the issues surrounding the airport and the secret meetings that have and continue to be held could very easily be resolved.

 

It appears that you along with BeachBum, Jane TY, Rockys Mom and a few more think that David Austin is being honest and above board open and transparent then will you encourage him to hear the Ultra Vires Case that has been pending in the Superior Court of Paulding County since December 2014????

I know that all three of ya'll are interested in all citizens having there day in court, and letting a judge or a jury decide the fate of any illegal or wrong doings.

Will you help me get the cases heard?? Surely you stand firmly behind JUSTICE FOR ALL??? RIGHT!!!!!

I'm not an attorney, nor have I talked to the airport attorney about the hold up. I'm sure you have. Hundreds of times. Of course no matter what answer is given to you, it will never be good enough or agreeable with your point of view just as the numerous explanations about Dave Carmichael resigning haven't stopped you from spewing out nonsense and ugliness about the man.

 

As for "transparency and honesty" that you claim David Austin doesn't have, I think you should look in your own circle at the people you support who wouldn't know what that is if it bit them in the ass. And after attending several meetings now, all I see is a juvenile behavior and spiteful insinuations that do nothing to serve the citizens of Paulding County.

 

You want justice you say? Sorry, but I don't see "do it my way or take the highway" as any kind of justice and that's the only way you see it.

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I'm not an attorney, nor have I talked to the airport attorney about the hold up. I'm sure you have. Hundreds of times. Of course no matter what answer is given to you, it will never be good enough or agreeable with your point of view just as the numerous explanations about Dave Carmichael resigning haven't stopped you from spewing out nonsense and ugliness about the man.

 

As for "transparency and honesty" that you claim David Austin doesn't have, I think you should look in your own circle at the people you support who wouldn't know what that is if it bit them in the ass. And after attending several meetings now, all I see is a juvenile behavior and spiteful insinuations that do nothing to serve the citizens of Paulding County.

 

You want justice you say? Sorry, but I don't see "do it my way or take the highway" as any kind of justice and that's the only way you see it.

I agree Jane. In fact, that latest stunt with the C of C memo is just a perfect example of the childish behavior.

 

Whitey, you think you have waited long enough for the case to be heard? Lean on the attorneys that represent your interests instead of the chairman. You may enjoy better results.

 

BTW, you are assuming support for the chairman instead of dissatisfaction with how the anti folks are acting.

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Bottom line, the county owns the airport........... that was until Austin and Company, a lame duck BOC, gave it to an unelected board to circumvent an election he didn't like the results of.

 

As a result, the taxpayers are on the hook for any mis-steps or failures with no representation by the post commissioners, who were elected by the people to do just that.

 

They have stretched the boundaries of what the Chairman's job is to a snapping point. There is NOTHING in the EA, any studies, any data that indicates commercial passenger service would bring more benefit to the county than a successful general aviation airport.

 

Corporate jets are what bring the money, along with their businesses, like FedEx, Google, Amazon, Keurig, etc. We need businesses and jobs, we don't need scheduled airliners to do that.

 

Why is the PCAA and Commission Chairman so insistent we move in that direction? That is the biggest question. "why"?. I don't get it, I don't understand why they don't just table the 139 and stop all this insanity. No one is winning the way it's going, everyone loses, everyone.

 

Of course those that support the airport haven't said a word about the behavior of some of their people. People that like to "expose" other people's financial struggles, send nasty messages, post pictures of those that don't agree with them to make fun of the individuals, mock them on internet "shows". Do people realize how infantile all that is? Just because you can't agree on an issue?

 

It's time to stop all this, when the people flip the entire make of the BOC, it's time to step back and hear what the majority people are saying instead of stomping your feet and digging your heels in further.

More changes are in store in the next few months, I have every confidence the people of Paulding county will again step to the front and make good choices about their community.


Because that's what's Paulding does best, because it has some of the best people in the world, living right here.

Edited by tundra
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Bottom line, the county owns the airport........... that was until Austin and Company, a lame duck BOC gave it to an unelected board to circumvent an election he didn't like the results of.

 

As a result, the taxpayers are on the hook for any mis-steps or failures with no representation by the post commissioners, who were elected by the people to do just that.

 

 

 

As I understand it, and I certainly may not understand it correctly, but as I understand it, no lawsuit has been filed against the county of Paulding, at least not the original lawsuit by the 6 plaintiffs, you know, the one everyone says Delta is financing.

The lawsuit has been filed against Airport Authority and, I'm not sure about this, the IBA.

 

If my understanding is correct, then there is a major lawsuit (possibly financed by a company that has more money than Paulding county) against a government entity, that we the tax payers, who are paying for the defense of this lawsuit, have no say so over that government entity.

 

To put it simply (and this is my understanding, it could be wrong), since the AA and IBA have been moved out from under the Board of Commissioners control, we the taxpayers have no elected representation, by our elected district commissioner, over the AA or the IBA.

BUT, we the tax payers are on the hook for the cost of defending the lawsuit, no matter how long it takes or the cost for the lawyers.

Isn't that kinda what we dumped some tea into a harbor and fought a war against?

 

Since it is the AA, and possibly the IBA, that is being sued, not the actual county of Paulding, and since these entities do not come under the control the Paulding BOC, then the BOC has no say so in how to handle the lawsuit against the AA and/or the IBA.

Is that basically correct?

 

I'll say it again, based on what I understand is government's (most all governments) normal reaction to a lawsuit, which is to delay, delay, delay and delay some more, hoping to run the plaintiffs out of funds, thus causing the lawsuit to be dropped or easily defeated.

You better hope it ain't Delta, cause Paulding will go broke before Delta will.

Edited by stradial
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Bottom line, the county owns the airport........... that was until Austin and Company, a lame duck BOC gave it to an unelected board to circumvent an election he didn't like the results of.

 

As a result, the taxpayers are on the hook for any mis-steps or failures with no representation by the post commissioners, who were elected by the people to do just that.

 

They have stretched the boundaries of what the Chairman's job is to a snapping point. There is NOTHING in the EA, any studies, any data that indicates commercial passenger service would bring more benefit to the county than a successful general aviation airport.

 

Corporate jets are what bring the money, along with their businesses, like FedEx, Google, Amazon, Keurig, etc. We need businesses and jobs, we don't need scheduled airliners to do that.

 

Why is the PCAA and Commission Chairman so insistent we move in that direction? That is the biggest question. "why"?. I don't get it, I don't understand why they don't just table the 139 and stop all this insanity. No one is winning the way it's going, everyone loses, everyone.

 

Of course those that support the airport haven't said a word about the behavior of some of their people. People that like to "expose" other people's financial struggles, send nasty messages, post pictures of those that don't agree with them to make fun of the individuals, mock them on internet "shows". Do people realize how infantile all that is? Just because you can't agree on an issue?

 

It's time to stop all this, when the people flip the entire make of the BOC, it's time to step back and hear what the majority people are saying instead of stomping your feet and digging your heals in further.

 

More changes are in store in the next few months, I have every confidence the people of Paulding county will again step to the front and make good choices about their community.

Because that's what's Paulding does best, because it has some of the best people in the world, living right here.

 

I find it fascinating you want to turn over the administration from a board that included pilots and others directly involved in economic development to an elected board that contains, at most, one person with more than a high school diploma ... because the airport board lacks expertise.

 

You point out that there is nothing in the EA or other document that says that commercial will be any more successful than a general aviation airport ... and they shouldn't. The Environmental Assessment was there to determine if there was a substantial change in the environmental footprint of the facility as it is because of commercial activity and the reading was the runway stays the same, the terminal, for the most part, stays the same, and the addition of a fire station, fence and control tower - the key additions - don't have much environmental impact.

 

The issue remains, what is wrong with people as cargo ... or what's wrong with people? We've got plenty of people but we don't have plenty of industry ... and it would be industry that would be air-freighting toxic chemicals and other substances that might be much more dangerous to the population than people.

 

Indeed, I was puzzled that you folks are not up in arms about the rail road industry. They come through town and all around carrying tons of toxic substances including those that can explode and take out an entire town and they blow their loud horns at all hours of the day and night and not a peep out of you regarding that.

 

I mean the reasons you state as your objections seem silly in comparison to the risks we face normally every day and then you object to people as cargo as if they threaten your life. I just don't get it.

 

pubby

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Really I only have one problem with commercializing the airport if it can eliminated it count me in ...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ71OxBdMrg

 

* and this just what you hear from your tiny little computer speakers.

 

They've done a great deal to moderate the sound from commercial jets during takeoff and landing is the first thing to note. The regulations regarding sound, btw, don't apply to corporate jets (which are, typically smaller - less thrust) but often exceed the sound levels of commercial planes.

 

Without question, military jets - because performance is the critical design criteria - are the worst offenders in regard to sound.

 

The other way that sound is lessened is by locating airports in more remote areas. Silver Comet Field is about the most remote, least inhabited area in the sprawling Atlanta metropolitan area. The idea, of course, is the greatest good for the greatest number of people.

 

The most successful approach in realizing the greatest good for the greatest number is by mitigating the pain the few suffer so that the masses can be totally saved. This approach is gaining support worldwide and the best example is that of Gatwick Airport outside London, England.

 

I have reason to be encouraged that this kind of attitude is gaining favor at Silver Comet Field. I say that as an advocate for the 'good neighbor' approach and can report that I see movement in this direction from some of the players. Indeed, I've been critical of some in the current management over their less than optimal approaches to those who border the facility.

 

I think the source of the attitude comes from the local, and for that matter, regional culture which is largely Appalachian. For more on this 'concept' ... read this article and pay special note to the following passage.

 

Continuing to treat the South as a single entity, Nisbett argued that the violent streak in the culture the Cavaliers established was intensified by the “major subsequent wave of immigration . . . from the borderlands of Scotland and Ireland.” These immigrants, who populated what I call Greater Appalachia, came from “an economy based on herding,” which, as anthropologists have shown, predisposes people to belligerent stances because the animals on which their wealth depends are so vulnerable to theft.

Belligerence comes naturally to folks in this region and while that is not an excuse, it does help explain the cultural predisposition that would never be characterized as 'good neighbor' in the event of a conflict. And there is a natural conflict between development and established residents in all cases.... and one of the bones in the case of an airport is, as you noted ... the sound of aircraft.

 

pubby

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Belligerence comes naturally to folks in this region and while that is not an excuse, it does help explain the cultural predisposition that would never be characterized as 'good neighbor' in the event of a conflict. And there is a natural conflict between development and established residents in all cases.... and one of the bones in the case of an airport is, as you noted ... the sound of aircraft.

 

pubby

 

Damn, generalize much?

Slamming a whole section of the country as "bad neighbors"?

 

I guess this is just another thing you will deny happened.

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Belligerence comes naturally to folks in this region and while that is not an excuse, it does help explain the cultural predisposition that would never be characterized as 'good neighbor' in the event of a conflict. And there is a natural conflict between development and established residents in all cases.... and one of the bones in the case of an airport is, as you noted ... the sound of aircraft.

 

pubby

 

Let me just say I have had some experience with airport expansions so I am undoubtedly prejudice. When I was 11 my family packed up and moved to what was at the time considered the country, East Point Ga. While it was a subdivision it was one of few and our neighbors raised horses and cattle. Hartsfield was I guess 10 or 12 miles away but you would never know it. That is until they began expanding and Delta changed their flight paths about five or six years later. At first it was only two or three a week but it quickly grew to two or three an hour. At times the jets would fly so low you could almost make out Delta's logo. That's about when cracks began to form in the mortar of this all brick house. We quickly learned to adapt and just suspended conversations until the plane passed over.What else could you do, this was my Mother's dream home and I doubt with the subsequent drop in property values they were in any position to move.

Not long passed when the airport authority began to buy up property - at their reduced value - because of all the uproar of complaints but my families house laid just outside the buy up zone. Eventually they offered to "soundproof " homes which amounted to installing more insulation and double pane windows. I had moved away by then so I don't know if it had any real effect.

Eventually my Mother passed away and Dad sold the house for whatever he could get. So I am familiar with the effects of an airport on the quality of life for those that live close enough. So yes you could call me Belligerent especially over an airport that no one knows will ever succeed or was ever needed. One that was built on one premise "If you build it they will come".

Edited by CitizenCain
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Bottom line, the county owns the airport........... that was until Austin and Company, a lame duck BOC gave it to an unelected board to circumvent an election he didn't like the results of.

 

As a result, the taxpayers are on the hook for any mis-steps or failures with no representation by the post commissioners, who were elected by the people to do just that.

 

They have stretched the boundaries of what the Chairman's job is to a snapping point. There is NOTHING in the EA, any studies, any data that indicates commercial passenger service would bring more benefit to the county than a successful general aviation airport.

 

Corporate jets are what bring the money, along with their businesses, like FedEx, Google, Amazon, Keurig, etc. We need businesses and jobs, we don't need scheduled airliners to do that.

 

Why is the PCAA and Commission Chairman so insistent we move in that direction? That is the biggest question. "why"?. I don't get it, I don't understand why they don't just table the 139 and stop all this insanity. No one is winning the way it's going, everyone loses, everyone.

 

Of course those that support the airport haven't said a word about the behavior of some of their people. People that like to "expose" other people's financial struggles, send nasty messages, post pictures of those that don't agree with them to make fun of the individuals, mock them on internet "shows". Do people realize how infantile all that is? Just because you can't agree on an issue?

 

It's time to stop all this, when the people flip the entire make of the BOC, it's time to step back and hear what the majority people are saying instead of stomping your feet and digging your heals in further.

 

More changes are in store in the next few months, I have every confidence the people of Paulding county will again step to the front and make good choices about their community.

Because that's what's Paulding does best, because it has some of the best people in the world, living right here.

We gotta get out of this place

If it's the last thing we ever do

We just gotta get out of this place

There's a better life, there's a better world

There's a better way

Don't you know, don't you know, don't you know

We gotta get out of this place

If it's the last thing we ever do

We gotta get out of this place

There's a better world

Don't you know, don't you know, don't you know

I want to get you out of this place

Out of this place

Out of this place

Yeah, yeah, yeah

 

I agree with The Animals! We really have to get out of this place. I feel that I am less and less represented as far as the Airport is concerned. Now it seems more representation has been taken away from my Post Commissioner. It has to stop!!!! Time to move forward with the people having a true voice.

 

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I intended to reply to Pubby's hypocritical post but why bother. just close this thing down....good grief...

Which one of his hypocritical posts? LOL

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Damn, generalize much?

Slamming a whole section of the country as "bad neighbors"?

 

I guess this is just another thing you will deny happened.

Actually, I've been pretty outspoken about the culture here ... let me clarify ... the vindictive culture here that I feel is responsible for prosecutions, litigation, observed efforts to intimidate and bully, not-too-subtle boycotts ...etc., etc., etc.

 

I was just pointing out that all who act in this manner feel justified because the culture endorses the idea that if you don't decimate anyone who challenges you, you are weak and to be exploited. And if you put up a fight, they fight to the death with little mercy or consideration.

 

And your smartass comment suggesting that I deny crap I do ... I write more than I talk and I write a pretty good amount. I'm pretty sure if I held that opinion based on clans, I would have written about it and remembered it. Hell it wouldn't make any difference if I held that opinion ... I just happen not to think that is the way things are organized here. So basically you choose to call me a liar because why?

 

I think we all know ...

 

Just know that I consider the source and forget it ... because my culture brought me up to see being forgiving as strength, not weakness. As they say, have a nice day.

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Actually, I've been pretty outspoken about the culture here ... let me clarify ... the vindictive culture here that I feel is responsible for prosecutions, litigation, observed efforts to intimidate and bully, not-too-subtle boycotts ...etc., etc., etc.

 

I was just pointing out that all who act in this manner feel justified because the culture endorses the idea that if you don't decimate anyone who challenges you, you are weak and to be exploited. And if you put up a fight, they fight to the death with little mercy or consideration.

 

And your smartass comment suggesting that I deny crap I do ... I write more than I talk and I write a pretty good amount. I'm pretty sure if I held that opinion based on clans, I would have written about it and remembered it. Hell it wouldn't make any difference if I held that opinion ... I just happen not to think that is the way things are organized here. So basically you choose to call me a liar because why?

 

I think we all know ...

 

Just know that I consider the source and forget it ... because my culture brought me up to see being forgiving as strength, not weakness. As they say, have a nice day.

 

I call you a liar, because you are.

You told me that stuff about the Paulding families.

YOU, no one else.

You also lied about what you said about the Jamie Gilbert matter, when you said "that's just the way the game is played", referring to the county official(s) putting pressure on Jamie's employer.

 

That is the day that I lost all respect for you as a person.

Now you deny saying what you have said about the Paulding "families" that "run" the county.

You might want to rethink that denial, after all, you were telling people that story long before (and after) you told it to me.

I certainly haven't been the only one to hear that talk.

In fact, I spoke to someone just yesterday that said; ohhhh, he's been saying that about those families for years.

 

 

I won't even get into your ludicrous crap insulting an entire region and it's people.

 

 

ETA, courtesy of John Lennon

 

Ah, how do you sleep

Ah, how do you sleep at night

Ah, how do you sleep

Ah, how do you sleep at night

Edited by stradial
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I find it fascinating you want to turn over the administration from a board that included pilots and others directly involved in economic development to an elected board that contains, at most, one person with more than a high school diploma ... because the airport board lacks expertise.

 

You point out that there is nothing in the EA or other document that says that commercial will be any more successful than a general aviation airport ... and they shouldn't. The Environmental Assessment was there to determine if there was a substantial change in the environmental footprint of the facility as it is because of commercial activity and the reading was the runway stays the same, the terminal, for the most part, stays the same, and the addition of a fire station, fence and control tower - the key additions - don't have much environmental impact.

 

The issue remains, what is wrong with people as cargo ... or what's wrong with people? We've got plenty of people but we don't have plenty of industry ... and it would be industry that would be air-freighting toxic chemicals and other substances that might be much more dangerous to the population than people.

 

Indeed, I was puzzled that you folks are not up in arms about the rail road industry. They come through town and all around carrying tons of toxic substances including those that can explode and take out an entire town and they blow their loud horns at all hours of the day and night and not a peep out of you regarding that.

 

I mean the reasons you state as your objections seem silly in comparison to the risks we face normally every day and then you object to people as cargo as if they threaten your life. I just don't get it.

 

pubby

You better read what I wrote again, that is NOT what I said. We don't need commercial airliners to bring business and jobs to Paulding County, nothing in that EA indicates that.

 

My objections are silly? Where's the business plan, where's the financial data, where's the investment by the private entity? Exactly what is Propeller bringing to Paulding County? Seems like all they want is that million dollars from the FAA to IMPROVE the airport every year. Wouldn't you love the government to give you a million dollars or more a year to grow your business?

 

#PropellerGoHome

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You better read what I wrote again, that is NOT what I said. We don't need commercial airliners to bring business and jobs to Paulding County, nothing in that EA indicates that.

 

My objections are silly? Where's the business plan, where's the financial data, where's the investment by the private entity? Exactly what is Propeller bringing to Paulding County? Seems like all they want is that million dollars from the FAA to IMPROVE the airport every year. Wouldn't you love the government to give you a million dollars or more a year to grow your business?

 

#PropellerGoHome

 

I see, your three high school grads sitting on the BOC are going to do that with the GA airport because of their deep experience in economic development.

 

Where's that business plan?

 

The real reason that the FAA is even considering the 139 is because they are at loggerheads with HJ and not a little pissed that folks like Delta have turned up their nose at subsidies the FAA is giving to smaller city airports to arguably the biggest hub in the world ... thus crippling commercial air transportation system. Why? Because they can make more money on international flights and other flights and there isn't the capacity at HJIA for those flights and the regional ones.

 

Why don't you do an open records request from the FAA on how many millions in subsidies for smaller airports goes unallocated because the major airlines cut service to smaller airports in the country meaning you 'can't get there from here.'

 

Further, the silly part is that you say out of one side of your mouth, there is no market and this will be an abject failure and then, out of the other side your mouth, we can't have commercial traffic at Silver Comet because of the overwhelming noise from so many travelers coming here. Do you not the inconsistency?

 

And, considering all, do you not see the inconsistency when you refuse to let the market determine if it can be successful? Instead you want government to decide based on what at best can be determined the Not in my Back Yard public sentiment.

 

Again, what is wrong with serving people? What do you have against people? Why would you prefer non-commercial aircraft that can a much wider variety of items including potentially toxic items over planes that restrict such cargo because they are carrying PEOPLE?

 

I still don't get what you have against people?

 

pubby

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I see, your three high school grads sitting on the BOC are going to do that with the GA airport because of their deep experience in economic development.

 

Where's that business plan?

 

The real reason that the FAA is even considering the 139 is because they are at loggerheads with HJ and not a little pissed that folks like Delta have turned up their nose at subsidies the FAA is giving to smaller city airports to arguably the biggest hub in the world ... thus crippling commercial air transportation system. Why? Because they can make more money on international flights and other flights and there isn't the capacity at HJIA for those flights and the regional ones.

 

Why don't you do an open records request from the FAA on how many millions in subsidies for smaller airports goes unallocated because the major airlines cut service to smaller airports in the country meaning you 'can't get there from here.'

 

Further, the silly part is that you say out of one side of your mouth, there is no market and this will be an abject failure and then, out of the other side your mouth, we can't have commercial traffic at Silver Comet because of the overwhelming noise from so many travelers coming here. Do you not the inconsistency?

 

And, considering all, do you not see the inconsistency when you refuse to let the market determine if it can be successful? Instead you want government to decide based on what at best can be determined the Not in my Back Yard public sentiment.

 

Again, what is wrong with serving people? What do you have against people? Why would you prefer non-commercial aircraft that can a much wider variety of items including potentially toxic items over planes that restrict such cargo because they are carrying PEOPLE?

 

I still don't get what you have against people?

 

pubby

Again Pubby, you haven't read my posts. I have served people, especially children for the past 25 years. I have no objection to serving people, I have objections to government shoving stuff down our throats, against the will of the voters. You also realize the guys with the college degrees are the one acting like a buffoons? Like a two year old having a temper tantrum?

 

Cargo can already use our airport, do you see them lining up? Do you see any major businesses moving here since your Commission Chairman not only pushed our economic developer out but has managed to piss off the state chamber of commerce, too.

 

Every available dollar has been thrown in to that money pit while the weeds grow 6 feet tall in our industrial parks. Heck the light on the sign at the airport has never worked right, I think they replaced it a couple of times. It's now dark, many people missed the entrance to attend the FAA meeting.

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... pissed off the state chamber of commerce ... I know ... the titular head of it being ... Delta's president :) I really got a good laugh out of that one :)

 

Strange thing about free enterprise and fostering competition ... those who feel they are entitled to a monopoly get pissed.

 

pubby

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... pissed off the state chamber of commerce ... I know ... the titular head of it being ... Delta's president :) I really got a good laugh out of that one :)

 

Strange thing about free enterprise and fostering competition ... those who feel they are entitled to a monopoly get pissed.

 

pubby

And they gave all their employees huge profit sharing checks, 800 of them live right here in Paulding County.

 

Wanna know what else big bad Delta did? They sent limos to Children's Health Care of Atlanta to pick up the cancer patients, took them to Hartsfield, loaded them on a plane, taxied to another gate where Santa was waiting at the North Pole. The first thing they did when they got off the plane was have a snow ball fight. You see my 5 year old great niece was on that plane to the North Pole, she's suffering from non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma, her parents will NEVER forget what Delta did for them. BIG BAD DELTA, doesn't care about anyone but themselves.

 

Really that's what free enterprise does. It doesn't threaten to sue because the voters voted against commercial airliners, it doesn't expect the government to fund their start up company. As the lone supporter of commercial service in Post 2, didn't you receive the least amount of votes?

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Oh and they didn't just do that in Atlanta............they did it in many places, all over the US

www.daytondailynews.com/gallery/lifestyles/holiday/delta-flies-40-kids-north-pole/gCPym/#last

 

http://www.briansumers.com/home/2015/12/3/photo-gallery-delta-air-lines-flies-la-children-to-the-north-pole-to-meet-santa-sort-of

Edited by tundra

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