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PCHS is going to ruins!


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#1 fashionistamom

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 05:04 PM

I am here to tell you that PCHS is going to ruins! I work at this high school and this will be my last year there. I blame the administration for not enforcing the rules and not punishing students adequately. Students treat their teachers with disrespect and are allowed to get away with it even after write ups are issued. I personally witnessed a fight there today where a Sherriffs deputy had to intervene in a fight that broke out only to be injured himself in the process. It's a shame the admininistators are so relaxed about everything that goes on there. I am glad that I will be leaving after the school year is finished!

#2 Rose Luxemburg

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 05:28 PM

Today, I met yet another parent of a Paulding County High student who will be homeschooled, going to private school, or moving because of the arm pit called PCHS...



#3 NewsJunky

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 07:33 PM

Children who can't behave should be removed from the schools.  When are the folks in charge going to wake up? 


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#4 ProudMawMawof5

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 10:19 PM

PCHS has been terrible for years. The school needs a fresh start all the way down to the resource officer. I have complained several times in the past but nothing has ever been done. School will never get any better because the children do not fear their leaders anymore. Oh, and did I say there is no respect anymore, I am thankful that my child is no longer there.

Edited by ProudMawMawof5, 21 May 2015 - 10:20 PM.

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#5 lowrider

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 10:59 PM

PCHS is why I school choiced my grandson to SPHS and it's one of the best decisions I've ever made, I only wish I could have done it from 9th grade on.

 

I don't know what it will take, and I have my own horror stories that involved teachers, administration and principals.

 

I know the principal that is there now is useless.

 

But, that's just my opinion based on first hand experience.



#6 The Sound Guy

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 08:20 AM

People complained when Segars was there and ruled with an iron hand.

 

So they moved him and brought in the easy rider and people complain about that.

 

The Board can't please everyone.


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#7 lowrider

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 08:45 AM

It's gone on so long and gotten so bad there's no respect from anyone.

The Board doesn't need to try to please anyone, they need to be concerned about the problems in this school, lack of morale and out of control kids.

I don't know the answer but it's going to crash and burn.

I'm just thankful we were able to get out.


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#8 LPPT

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 08:48 AM

People complained when Segars was there and ruled with an iron hand.

 

So they moved him and brought in the easy rider and people complain about that.

 

The Board can't please everyone.

I did not like Segars. He was disrespectful of faculty and parents.


El Zorro

 

As far as releasing my name here, it's not going to happen.  There have been people here who found someone's given name and then found where they worked and made things difficult for them - all because they didn't like them here because of their political opinions.

 


#9 LPPT

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 08:54 AM

It's gone on so long and gotten so bad there's no respect from anyone.

The Board doesn't need to try to please anyone, they need to be concerned about the problems in this school, lack of moral and out of control kids.

I don't know the answer but it's going to crash and burn.

I'm just thankful we were able to get out.

Everyone at that school needs to be transfered into other schools in the county. Then they need to transfer in staff from the rest of the schools that have never taught there. There are still some good teachers there and they will be good wherever they go. The rest will hopefully leave their bad habits and attitude behind. You have those that have been there forever running the show behind the scenes.

 

The school board and the super intendant need to make this happen. It is not good for the kids to be in that environment of looking the other way and favoritism. You have people teaching and working there that graduated from that school, that is why it has not evolved.


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El Zorro

 

As far as releasing my name here, it's not going to happen.  There have been people here who found someone's given name and then found where they worked and made things difficult for them - all because they didn't like them here because of their political opinions.

 


#10 FreeBird

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 07:04 AM

It starts at home.  Children raised in an environment of lack of respect will relay what they know.  I agree that if you break the law then you are out, yet the juvenile justice system has no teeth.


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#11 Veritas

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 08:03 AM

I always find it interesting when people complain as if schools exist in isolation from the rest of society. Schools are a creation of society and reflect its values; they are a simply one example of society looking at itself in a mirror. If a school is a certain way, it's because society is that way and created the school to be that same way. Sure, different groups, often with competing interests, lobby to make schools this way or that, but in the end, this reflects society today.


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#12 The Sound Guy

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 10:17 AM

It starts at home.  Children raised in an environment of lack of respect will relay what they know.  I agree that if you break the law then you are out, yet the juvenile justice system has no teeth.

 

Another issue is that a high school education has become a "right" that you can't take away rather than a privilege that should be cherished.


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#13 fashionistamom

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 11:25 AM

I know one thing I saw work over at South Paulding Middle school, when I worked there was that on a first offense write up, the parents or legal guardian were called to come pick up the child from school. This seemed to work really well as I did not have repeat offenders. The kids learned that if they were written up their parents would be made to leave their jobs and come up there to get them on very first offense. They also had to come in and read and sign the write up in the presence of one of the administrators and sign the kid out. The parents had to then be forced to deal with their child!

#14 myrlin

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 01:26 PM

I am here to tell you that PCHS is going to ruins! I work at this high school and this will be my last year there. I blame the administration for not enforcing the rules and not punishing students adequately. Students treat their teachers with disrespect and are allowed to get away with it even after write ups are issued. I personally witnessed a fight there today where a Sherriffs deputy had to intervene in a fight that broke out only to be injured himself in the process. It's a shame the admininistators are so relaxed about everything that goes on there. I am glad that I will be leaving after the school year is finished!


This is why I took my kid out of that school!
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#15 Peaches

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 07:28 PM

 

Another issue is that a high school education has become a "right" that you can't take away rather than a privilege that should be cherished.

A free and appropriate education is a right and the laws written guarantee it. PL 94-142 says that a every student has a "right to a free and appropriate education." The courts have upheld education as a right in the American system, K-12.


Every school has problems and a student will get out of the school the effort he puts into it.


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#16 The Sound Guy

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 08:22 AM

A free and appropriate education is a right and the laws written guarantee it. PL 94-142 says that a every student has a "right to a free and appropriate education." The courts have upheld education as a right in the American system, K-12.


Every school has problems and a student will get out of the school the effort he puts into it.

 

See, that is where liberals screw it up. I believe in kids having a right to have the opportunity to an education, but if they will not work at it, kick their butts out and let the parents deal with them while the students that WANT to learn, get the most out of the allocated resources. 

 

The libs have changed it to a right to screw up everyone's education because they know they won't be kicked out.

 

Make an education something they can lose and it will be much more precious to them and their parents.


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#17 Vote Democrat

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 08:41 AM

Speaking from experience, the best plan for a student to avoid the riff raff and punk kids is take all AP/Honors classes. It's tougher, but at least then the students who want to learn are put with teachers who want to teach.  The kids who don't take college bound AP classes are herded through the system like cattle.  Most of the discipline problems come from the kids who don't take AP/honors classes. 

 

If a kid can pass AP Chemistry & AP Calculus, odds are very good that student will do good in college.


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#18 NewsJunky

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 09:40 AM

It's gone on so long and gotten so bad there's no respect from anyone.

The Board doesn't need to try to please anyone, they need to be concerned about the problems in this school, lack of morale and out of control kids.

I don't know the answer but it's going to crash and burn.

I'm just thankful we were able to get out.

This is why new Board members may be needed.  They appoint the Superintendent.  Stay tuned....


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#19 workingforaliving

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 08:44 PM

Everyone at that school needs to be transfered into other schools in the county. Then they need to transfer in staff from the rest of the schools that have never taught there. There are still some good teachers there and they will be good wherever they go. The rest will hopefully leave their bad habits and attitude behind. You have those that have been there forever running the show behind the scenes.
 
The school board and the super intendant need to make this happen. It is not good for the kids to be in that environment of looking the other way and favoritism. You have people teaching and working there that graduated from that school, that is why it has not evolved .


Considering the limited number of high schools in Paulding just a handful of years ago, you'd be excluding a large number of people by saying someone shouldn't work at this school because that's where they graduated. Can you explain this further?
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#20 Peaches

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 09:54 PM

 

See, that is where liberals screw it up. I believe in kids having a right to have the opportunity to an education, but if they will not work at it, kick their butts out and let the parents deal with them while the students that WANT to learn, get the most out of the allocated resources. 

 

The libs have changed it to a right to screw up everyone's education because they know they won't be kicked out.

 

Make an education something they can lose and it will be much more precious to them and their parents.

I don't know where you got your information from but you may want to revisit that.

The idea of a free education through age 12 became law in the early 1800s. It was expanded to to the 8th grade after the Civil War.That is not a liberal or conservative thing but an economic thing. The free education as a right was expanded through the 12th grade in the early 1900s. It was further expanded with the PL 94-142 and the disabilities in education laws in the 1970s through the 1990s. 

It is a right whether you like it or not. The laws were written say so. The court cases say so.

The reason we don't want to have to suspend children from school is they then tend to drop out, fall into the welfare system, and then end up in the criminal justice system. Those are the odds and a child that is suspended from school is much more likely to eventually drop out, and then fall into a problem for the rest of society for the the rest of their lives. More importantly, the cycle is then likely to continue in the next generation as well.

That cycle of poverty, welfare, and the criminal justice system costs you and me and all Americans enormous amounts of money, much more than if we put a fraction of that money in poverty programs, job training, and educational coaching to keep at risk children in school.

From a business standpoint and a cost standpoint, kicking them out of school is the the worst thing that can be done. 

I know it makes it harder on the students, you, and even us teachers, but we cannot afford your version of "opportunity" and that is why the people that know what they are talking about in education reject your notion. Why? Because it doesn't work and it costs far too much. A bit of prevention is worth more than the cure.


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#21 LPPT

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 06:38 AM

Considering the limited number of high schools in Paulding just a handful of years ago, you'd be excluding a large number of people by saying someone shouldn't work at this school because that's where they graduated. Can you explain this further?

I did explain, it has not evolved for way too many generations.  Things really aren't all that different than when they graduated all those years ago. Many of the names and families attending are the same. School admins, office workers, teachers are all the same. For those that like the familiar and have carved out a comfort zone it is good. For those needing leadership, and enforcement of rules for all it is not such a great place.


El Zorro

 

As far as releasing my name here, it's not going to happen.  There have been people here who found someone's given name and then found where they worked and made things difficult for them - all because they didn't like them here because of their political opinions.

 


#22 The Sound Guy

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 04:24 PM

I don't know where you got your information from but you may want to revisit that.

The idea of a free education through age 12 became law in the early 1800s. It was expanded to to the 8th grade after the Civil War.That is not a liberal or conservative thing but an economic thing. The free education as a right was expanded through the 12th grade in the early 1900s. It was further expanded with the PL 94-142 and the disabilities in education laws in the 1970s through the 1990s. 

It is a right whether you like it or not. The laws were written say so. The court cases say so.

The reason we don't want to have to suspend children from school is they then tend to drop out, fall into the welfare system, and then end up in the criminal justice system. Those are the odds and a child that is suspended from school is much more likely to eventually drop out, and then fall into a problem for the rest of society for the the rest of their lives. More importantly, the cycle is then likely to continue in the next generation as well.

That cycle of poverty, welfare, and the criminal justice system costs you and me and all Americans enormous amounts of money, much more than if we put a fraction of that money in poverty programs, job training, and educational coaching to keep at risk children in school.

From a business standpoint and a cost standpoint, kicking them out of school is the the worst thing that can be done. 

I know it makes it harder on the students, you, and even us teachers, but we cannot afford your version of "opportunity" and that is why the people that know what they are talking about in education reject your notion. Why? Because it doesn't work and it costs far too much. A bit of prevention is worth more than the cure.

 

I agree that from an economic perspective, having everyone educated is a no-brainer.

 

The issue is that a good sized part of the population now sees the value of the school system as being a tax payer funded baby sitter, not an education. The parents have a "right" to demand that the government take responsibility for educating their children, not a partnership.

 

The children pick up on the parents feelings and don't treat it as the opportunity that it is.

 

The extra time and effort it takes to "make sure no child is left behind" when they really don't give a rats butt if they pass or not are resources that can't be used on the proportion of population that *can* and *want* to learn and will have value to society and be the taxpayers that support the rest of the idiots.

 

Granted, we do have a few programs that try to help the gifted, Magnet schools being one of them, but the funding for that is limited compared to what's spent on the masses that will barely contribute back to society what they cost and many will *still* cost society as you mentioned above because they won't try to learn anything in the mandatory school. .If they are going to cost us anyway, why spend the money on trying to force them to do something they *don't want to do*?  You cannot force someone to learn.  It just doesn't work.  They have to want to learn.

 

It's human nature that the only way to make something valuable is for it to be possible to lose it.  The grandparents and great-grandparents of today are the last generation to see with their own eyes a life without education beyond the 8th grade even available to them. They for the most part are the last that will value education other than the millions paying off 100K worth of student loans their college educations cost them.

 

What we are seeing are the results of multiple generations of people taking education for granted when they know the government will pay them money for living even if they don't pass.

 

I see the gifted and other higher end students as our country's best hope.  We MUST support them to be all that they can be and their contribution to society will be orders of magnitude more than was put into them.  They will be the innovators that will allow us to prosper.


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#23 NewsJunky

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 05:01 PM

 

I agree that from an economic perspective, having everyone educated is a no-brainer.

 

The issue is that a good sized part of the population now sees the value of the school system as being a tax payer funded baby sitter, not an education. The parents have a "right" to demand that the government take responsibility for educating their children, not a partnership.

 

The children pick up on the parents feelings and don't treat it as the opportunity that it is.

 

The extra time and effort it takes to "make sure no child is left behind" when they really don't give a rats butt if they pass or not are resources that can't be used on the proportion of population that *can* and *want* to learn and will have value to society and be the taxpayers that support the rest of the idiots.

 

Granted, we do have a few programs that try to help the gifted, Magnet schools being one of them, but the funding for that is limited compared to what's spent on the masses that will barely contribute back to society what they cost and many will *still* cost society as you mentioned above because they won't try to learn anything in the mandatory school. .If they are going to cost us anyway, why spend the money on trying to force them to do something they *don't want to do*?  You cannot force someone to learn.  It just doesn't work.  They have to want to learn.

 

It's human nature that the only way to make something valuable is for it to be possible to lose it.  The grandparents and great-grandparents of today are the last generation to see with their own eyes a life without education beyond the 8th grade even available to them. They for the most part are the last that will value education other than the millions paying off 100K worth of student loans their college educations cost them.

 

What we are seeing are the results of multiple generations of people taking education for granted when they know the government will pay them money for living even if they don't pass.

 

I see the gifted and other higher end students as our country's best hope.  We MUST support them to be all that they can be and their contribution to society will be orders of magnitude more than was put into them.  They will be the innovators that will allow us to prosper.

:clapping: And they are always last on the list to get served. :good:


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#24 jenilyn

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 06:44 PM

I'm quite certain there are many kids out there without the "gifted" label that have, and will have a very positive impact on society. Sometimes the kids who appear not to give a crap only do so because they struggle so much and aren't given the proper resources to succeed. Sometimes they genuinely don't give a crap. Sometimes a kid who doesn't care so much about learning in high school will go on to learn great things after high school. If we count them out at such an early age we are doing nobody any favors.

My son and I were discussing trains on the way to school yesterday. He brought up a maglev. He is 4. I had no idea what that was and had to google. This isn't the first time I've had to google something he has said. When I took him to his evaluation to see if he qualified for special needs preschool the first thing he did when he walked into the room was point out and name a trapezoid. He was 3. He may never get a gifted label because of his special needs but even if he struggles in school at any point, there is no doubt in my mind that he will be an innovator. And there are so many kids like him who will struggle like hell and should never be discounted because it seems like they're not trying.

some companies are starting to get it right. http://www.cornersto...sm#.VWeo8D_D_qC

Edited by jenilyn, 28 May 2015 - 06:50 PM.

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#25 Just thinkin' hard

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 07:41 PM

jenilyn - I know of three students that are gifted and special ed.  They are not mutually exclusive, especially in the autistic/Asperger (sp?) and ADD/ADHD populations.  


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#26 jenilyn

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 07:54 PM

jenilyn - I know of three students that are gifted and special ed.  They are not mutually exclusive, especially in the autistic/Asperger (sp?) and ADD/ADHD populations.


Well that's good to hear because I know a lot of these kids fall through the cracks. I don't mean to sound defensive, I just really look at things so different now. I want the world to see what I see in these kids. I just don't think any kid should ever be counted out because you never know.
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#27 Peaches

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 05:34 AM

jenilyn - I know of three students that are gifted and special ed.  They are not mutually exclusive, especially in the autistic/Asperger (sp?) and ADD/ADHD populations.  

All gifted kids are special ed. They are covered under the same laws because they have needs outside the regular ed classroom. Not exactly the same they are considered special ed.



#28 Just thinkin' hard

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 05:37 AM

All gifted kids are special ed. They are covered under the same laws because they have needs outside the regular ed classroom. Not exactly the same they are considered special ed.

Actually - under the last revision of the IDEA act, they aren't under the same umbrella anymore.  But, you are correct in that they usually fall in the same department.  But, what I'm referring to is meeting the federal gifted standards to receive gifted services as well as meeting the standards for receiving ESEP services.  Gifted students do not have an IEP as a standard practice.  But, you can have a gifted qualified student that also has an IEP for ESEP services.


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#29 Peaches

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 05:43 AM

 

I agree that from an economic perspective, having everyone educated is a no-brainer.

 

The issue is that a good sized part of the population now sees the value of the school system as being a tax payer funded baby sitter, not an education. The parents have a "right" to demand that the government take responsibility for educating their children, not a partnership.

 

The children pick up on the parents feelings and don't treat it as the opportunity that it is.

 

The extra time and effort it takes to "make sure no child is left behind" when they really don't give a rats butt if they pass or not are resources that can't be used on the proportion of population that *can* and *want* to learn and will have value to society and be the taxpayers that support the rest of the idiots.

 

Granted, we do have a few programs that try to help the gifted, Magnet schools being one of them, but the funding for that is limited compared to what's spent on the masses that will barely contribute back to society what they cost and many will *still* cost society as you mentioned above because they won't try to learn anything in the mandatory school. .If they are going to cost us anyway, why spend the money on trying to force them to do something they *don't want to do*?  You cannot force someone to learn.  It just doesn't work.  They have to want to learn.

 

It's human nature that the only way to make something valuable is for it to be possible to lose it.  The grandparents and great-grandparents of today are the last generation to see with their own eyes a life without education beyond the 8th grade even available to them. They for the most part are the last that will value education other than the millions paying off 100K worth of student loans their college educations cost them.

 

What we are seeing are the results of multiple generations of people taking education for granted when they know the government will pay them money for living even if they don't pass.

 

I see the gifted and other higher end students as our country's best hope.  We MUST support them to be all that they can be and their contribution to society will be orders of magnitude more than was put into them.  They will be the innovators that will allow us to prosper.

That has always been the case. There  have always been people who are going to play the system, want someone else to take of them, and are generally just sorry people. They are the exception, not the rule. Blanket statements like you're making are not useful to serious discussion and really do nothing but polarize the issue into one of politics. Stop being an ideologue and  start looking at the total picture. You would be surprised. All the problems you keep bringing up are directly the result of poverty. Poverty is the highest indicator of eventual poverty in future generations, of criminal activity, and poor social skills. This means a cycle of high costs and low job prospects. From a business point of view, what you're suggesting is the worst idea possible because it spends more money on the results and nothing on prevention. If we are ever to "fix" education, we have to do something to address the poverty that we know results in the other problems that cost us a fortune in the end.


Actually - under the last revision of the IDEA act, they aren't under the same umbrella anymore.  But, you are correct in that they usually fall in the same department.  But, what I'm referring to is meeting the federal gifted standards to receive gifted services as well as meeting the standards for receiving ESEP services.  Gifted students do not have an IEP as a standard practice.  But, you can have a gifted qualified student that also has an IEP for ESEP services.

Right. I'm not saying they have exactly the same services and have to have all the same things because that has never been the case. But for purposes of testing and evaluation of services, they are considered special ed.



#30 fashionistamom

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 09:34 AM

You guys are making this issue be about politics. This issue here is not politics it is the school system and the education of our children.The local school board and school administration and parents as well need to work together to make a resolution about how to better deal with "issues" in the schools like bullying, disrespect for authority, and teachers. If the administration gets tough and enforces the rules all kids will have a better learning environment and therefore an equal chance at a good education. It can be done but administrators, educators, and parents have to come together to work on improvements that will benefit all concerned.

#31 NewsJunky

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 09:46 AM

You guys are making this issue be about politics. This issue here is not politics it is the school system and the education of our children.The local school board and school administration and parents as well need to work together to make a resolution about how to better deal with "issues" in the schools like bullying, disrespect for authority, and teachers. If the administration gets tough and enforces the rules all kids will have a better learning environment and therefore an equal chance at a good education. It can be done but administrators, educators, and parents have to come together to work on improvements that will benefit all concerned.

I have news for you.  It matters who is in office.  It is always about politics.  I want to see the County Superintendent elected so he has to answer to the parents who put him/her there.  All decisions come from the office he heads up.  The only thing the BOE does is set policy.


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#32 LisaC

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 09:47 AM

This isn't a school or a political issue.  This is a parenting issue!  Folks can blame educators all they want, but until the parents step up and actually take a vested interest in their child's education, this will continue. 


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#33 NewsJunky

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 09:49 AM

This isn't a school or a political issue.  This is a parenting issue!  Folks can blame educators all they want, but until the parents step up and actually take a vested interest in their child's education, this will continue. 

You are never going to fix the parenting issue.  That is why the schools are forced to deal with so much.  Until they stop trying to keep unmanageable students in the classroom it will never change.


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#34 LisaC

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 09:54 AM

You are never going to fix the parenting issue.  That is why the schools are forced to deal with so much.  Until they stop trying to keep unmanageable students in the classroom it will never change.

 

If you don't fix the parenting issue - you will not fix the school issue.  They go hand-in-hand.  If parents don't take a vested interest in the schools then their "angels" will continue to cause problems because the parents are going to insist that only the schools/school board/superintendent/teachers/bus drivers/whatever are to blame.


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#35 NewsJunky

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 09:58 AM

 

If you don't fix the parenting issue - you will not fix the school issue.  They go hand-in-hand.  If parents don't take a vested interest in the schools then their "angels" will continue to cause problems because the parents are going to insist that only the schools/school board/superintendent/teachers/bus drivers/whatever are to blame.

Of course those folks are not to blame but you will never be able to correct parent problems.  They all have to deal with what the schools are handed.  Only answer is to give the best education you can to all of them but separate or kick out those who will not allow that to happen for the students who want to learn.


 
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#36 lowrider

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 10:05 AM

You guys are making this issue be about politics. This issue here is not politics it is the school system and the education of our children.The local school board and school administration and parents as well need to work together to make a resolution about how to better deal with "issues" in the schools like bullying, disrespect for authority, and teachers. If the administration gets tough and enforces the rules all kids will have a better learning environment and therefore an equal chance at a good education. It can be done but administrators, educators, and parents have to come together to work on improvements that will benefit all concerned.

 

I understand what your saying, but it is about politics.


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#37 fashionistamom

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 04:54 PM

Last I checked the Paulding County School Board meetings are all open to the public,with the exception of the executive meetings.The Superintendent is always present, so therefore to some degree the school Superintendent does have to answer to parents, as well as anyone else in the public. The problem is not many people care enough to show up.

Edited by fashionistamom, 29 May 2015 - 05:01 PM.

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#38 The Sound Guy

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 09:09 PM

That has always been the case. There  have always been people who are going to play the system, want someone else to take of them, and are generally just sorry people. They are the exception, not the rule. Blanket statements like you're making are not useful to serious discussion and really do nothing but polarize the issue into one of politics. Stop being an ideologue and  start looking at the total picture. You would be surprised. All the problems you keep bringing up are directly the result of poverty. Poverty is the highest indicator of eventual poverty in future generations, of criminal activity, and poor social skills. This means a cycle of high costs and low job prospects. From a business point of view, what you're suggesting is the worst idea possible because it spends more money on the results and nothing on prevention. If we are ever to "fix" education, we have to do something to address the poverty that we know results in the other problems that cost us a fortune in the end.


Right. I'm not saying they have exactly the same services and have to have all the same things because that has never been the case. But for purposes of testing and evaluation of services, they are considered special ed.

 

Ok, you are arguing against yourself here.   First you say that if we don't force everyone into staying in the classroom, society will pay a huge price, then you state that the problem children are the exception rather than the rule.   So which is it?   If they are so few, then the cost of jailing them because they have chosen a life without education will not be as great as the positive effect of allowing all the kids that want to learn to do so in a positive, fun filled, environment and become all they can be without the disruptions of the few who don't care.  

 

Besides, I believe in many cases, if the parents *KNEW* that if their kids don't behave and learn they will be kicked out and left for the parents to deal with, I believe you'd see a lot more parents trying to work with the system instead of against it.   Why try now when the school system is forced to keep them in the class even if the parent is totally useless or even fighting the system along with the kid?

 

BTW - Everything I've stated here is about able bodied and minded students that *choose* to not learn, not those that have disabilities and cannot learn.   Pubby and I have had discussions about that, but for those students that have disabilities and yet have the ability to learn enough to take care of themselves, it is obviously worthwhile to teach them.   The only concern I have is the balance of resources,  However I don't want to sidetrack this thread into that topic again.


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#39 Peaches

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 09:14 PM

 

Ok, you are arguing against yourself here.   First you say that if we don't force everyone into staying in the classroom, society will pay a huge price, then you state that the problem children are the exception rather than the rule.   So which is it?   If they are so few, then the cost of jailing them because they have chosen a life without education will not be as great as the positive effect of allowing all the kids that want to learn to do so in a positive, fun filled, environment and become all they can be without the disruptions of the few who don't care.  

 

Besides, I believe in many cases, if the parents *KNEW* that if their kids don't behave and learn they will be kicked out and left for the parents to deal with, I believe you'd see a lot more parents trying to work with the system instead of against it.   Why try now when the school system is forced to keep them in the class even if the parent is totally useless or even fighting the system along with the kid?

 

BTW - Everything I've stated here is about able bodied and minded students that *choose* to not learn, not those that have disabilities and cannot learn.   Pubby and I have had discussions about that, but for those students that have disabilities and yet have the ability to learn enough to take care of themselves, it is obviously worthwhile to teach them.   The only concern I have is the balance of resources,  However I don't want to sidetrack this thread into that topic again.

I'm saying poverty is the greatest indicator of problems of all sorts. I'm saying discipline problems are the exception, not the rule.


We have to give every child every chance because many have so few opportunities otherwise.



#40 LPPT

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Posted 29 May 2015 - 09:32 PM

Not everyone gets great parents. It is just how it is. You have the one in a million that ends up as a success and even a millionaire. As a society we have decided that it benefits society to try to make productive citizens of as many children as possible in spite of their circumstances. We have a few problems in education. One of them is people using their degree to teach to make a living and don't really like teaching kids. It is a great job with paid summers off.

The next problem is that as a society, how are we going to teach young people right from wrong without the threat of hell hanging over their heads. At some point we have to address behavior with something besides I said so.

The dysfunctional parents won't tolerate behavioral science that allows their children to see the dysfunction.

We have more social issues destroying our schools and children than you can shake a stick at.

This is why our prisons become fuller and fuller. Christian parents won't tolerate anything but their values being taught. I hate to break it to them but prison populations are well over 50% Christian.

 

We have to do better with education, it has to go beyond the the basic reading, writing and mathematics to social and life skills. We have obese children because we don't teach food values and all they know is eating makes me fat and I am hungry. Give kids tools, soft skills, behavioral science, social skills. and life skills about credit, mortgages, and checking accounts.

These things will make huge difference when started early on at an appropriate level for their age.

We have too many children falling behind due more to social issues and behavior than a lack of intelligence and aptitude.

We don't even give young people the latitude to follow their aptitude because we are to busy trying to round them out to fit them in a hole otherwise known as a test.

 

When we apply common sense to education we will have better outcomes and a lot less people left behind waiting to go into prison or rehab.


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