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tundra

Secret meetings, code names, forgetting about minutes

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Also: Four or Five when that happened? I am 36 dude. Try 14/15. I was in high school then. I remember it well.

 

Dang kids!

Get off my lawn!!

:)

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Slam bam lawmaking is a Paulding tradition satellite ... kind of like drinking was to the Williams (Hank and Hank Jr.).

 

I did save some of the information from the other site. I suppose you could copy and paste into a quote.

 

3Secret meetings, code names, forgetting about minutes - Paulding.pdf

 

Secret meetings, code names, forgetting about minutes - Paulding.pdf

 

pubby

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I am for the airport and the expansion of Paulding County. I love Paulding as much as anyone and raised my children here and have worked in Paulding for the last 21 years at the same job. I also live with the airport in my back yard. I think some of you who post an argument against the airport have been well heard that you are not for it. I have been off this site for several months and yet you still are saying the same thing. Last i checked you do not own Paulding County and maybe just maybe its time for you to go elesewhere. The airport is coming and you will still be yelling the same words you were yelling months ago.

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I am for the airport and the expansion of Paulding County. I love Paulding as much as anyone and raised my children here and have worked in Paulding for the last 21 years at the same job. I also live with the airport in my back yard. I think some of you who post an argument against the airport have been well heard that you are not for it. I have been off this site for several months and yet you still are saying the same thing. Last i checked you do not own Paulding County and maybe just maybe its time for you to go elesewhere. The airport is coming and you will still be yelling the same words you were yelling months ago.

Welcome back to Paulding.com! It is nice to hear from someone who lives right at the airport and to hear your point of view on the issue.

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Again, for many like myself, the airport of and to itself is fine.

 

Its was promised to not cost us a cent, and to be general aviation only.....no commercial.

In fact, it has cost Millions and Millions in Paulding tax money not reimbursed by the FAA. We are not certain exactly or even approximately HOW much because the Powers that Be continue to refuse to show us what indeed has been spent by whom on what.

 

We do know it is approximately 40-45Million OVER budget.

 

And now the Powers that Be want another $40Million on top of that $40million it went over budget.

 

Do you really expect them to spent the next $40million that much more efficiently than the last $40Million ?

 

If so, please, please, please detail how any why you expect that with the exact same personnel running the show.

 

I am not against progress. I was actually an original supporter of the airport as I have used general aviation airports for years to move my customers from here to visit my jobsites at hatcheries around the southeast not available to commercial airports. Yes, I knew and realized the REAL reason King Jerry and his court of Jester RBMDs were using all of us to build a parking lot and runway for thier over priced toys, but hey, it would be closer than Cartersville and the funds I paid to rent planes and buy av-gas would go here instead of Bartow.

 

 

In a nut shell, we do not need to be throwing another $40million against such a failed effort. Let it stand on its own, as a general aviation airport. Make it profitable enough to pay its own way into commercialization then so be it. But no more of our tax money going down the money pit drain please.

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Surepip:

 

I dispute your figures in large part because of the way the expenses have been variously estimated.

 

For instance, if there was no industrial development planned for the facility, it would be fine if it were to use an on-site septic system. Running sewerage service to the site is there for industrial development and is/was incidental to flying planes in and out. Its presence was not dictated by commercialization of the airport; it was obtained to make industrialization around the airport possible and is/was justifiable on that basis.

 

Ditto the extension of and increased infrastructure for fire service. Sure you can argue that a fire station or water tank tied to the county's water system is there for industrialization of the surrounding properties as well. I mean would you invest a hundred-million dollars in a warehouse and contents or assembly facility at a location with inadequate fire service? These infrastructure expansions, also part of the inflated costs you invent and ascribe to the airport, were created to provide the necessary infrastructure of industrial development.

 

It was only after these plans were made and we spent that money that the opportunity for bringing commercial air traffic to this facility even became a possibility. (We'd never had that thought or that opportunity until Gwinnett turned down the offer from Brett Smith and Propeller Investments. )

 

That Brett Smith was interested in finding a location that could be developed into a commercial airport in the Atlanta market certainly became obvious to us before July 2012 but we weren't even under consideration. One reason we weren't under consideration is that in his perception of Paulding's airport, we didn't have these kinds of pieces in place.

 

But the key understanding and belief is they weren't put into place to lure him or anyone into bringing commercial passenger service to Paulding. They were put there to ready the site for commercial industrial development.

 

Ultimately, it would make no sense to have put any effort into commercial and industrial development or recruitment of companies for the property around the airport without these infrastructure improvements.

 

My reading is that it was totally serendipitous that we had these infrastructure improvements in place for industrial development around the airport when Propeller Investments happened to fail on their plan A which was to enter the market for bringing competition to Hartsfield-Jackson; creating the opportunity.

 

I don't for a minute think that these improvements were planned for that purpose. Indeed, these improvements were planned independently for the type of commercial/industrial development that you, mojo, and possibly even Whitey say you support.

 

That leaves our local leaders, who haven't been successful in breaking the ice on development at the airport, with the dilemma of do they wait another four years for that ice-breaking industrial development we know will come ... or do we take a shot at making this game-changing move by recruiting the guy who is so obviously looking for a place to bring in competition for commercial passenger airline service.

 

The costs and projects that you ascribe all these costs for were put in place to make this a project worth pursing for industrial development and with general community support for industrialization high.

 

The point is it would have been enormously stupid not to have sought this opportunity for a quicker payoff from our local investment.

 

pubby

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Pubby, all you speak of was promised when they built the airport. Construction began in 2004, 5 years before the bottom fell out. Why didn't they do what was necessary to make this a successful general aviation airport? They had 5 years to put all that development in there. The taxiway wasn't big enough, no sewage, no marketing. They ran out of money, why? Poor planning.

 

Paulding County is awesome at building stuff, it stinks at making it work after it's built.

 

Brett Smith himself has said commercial isn't necessary, so why the big push for it?

 

Let's make this a successful General Aviation airport with a rockin' industrial park, the way it was promised and planned. Let's leave the commercial flights at Hartsfield where they belong.

 

BTW, since no one has any experience running an airport, do you really think just bringing in 737s is all it's goint to take to make it successful?

Edited by tundra
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Again.......Einsteins definition of insanity, "doing something the same )exact) way over , and over, and over again and expecting different results".

 

Show us where the money has been spent. Any overtly transparent governmental entity owes that to the tax payers that put that money on the table.

 

Show us the FAA reimbursements and others to date.

 

Show us FAAAnd other reimbursements still owed and when we expect to receive them.

 

Show us the money BEFORE asking for more (demanding more while they've showed they intend to just simply take it anyway).

 

Show us the plan to turn the $40,000,000 into a profitable return on investment.

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You can spin this that way for sure.

 

But think back and for that matter THINK folks.

 

The county folks were figuring we could do a little bit here and little bit there.

 

Now don't hold me to specific timing - I wasn't paying that close of attention but the first year they put money into getting the road roughed in and you had to have a truck to get out there, the second year they graded it good, put the base down for the road and maybe engineered the gutters and drainage. The third year ... they're still working on creating the airport runway proper remember ... so that is when they did the paving.

 

Fourth year, the runway slab is done and also the road. That was state it was in when Jerry left, if memory serves.

 

But there was more to do, and it too was done incrementally, a little this year, a little the next year. You would definitely have had an argument if they had built all the pieces in 2006 (when in essence it was still rocky terrain) with a $65 million dollar bond issue ... but instead they were getting state grants for this, using a little of the SPLOST dollars for the road, a little more the next year ... basically acting a lot like you or I doing incremental improvements to our property which was really not quite ready for prime time until all the projects are done.

 

So, no one complained because what they were doing to improve the property a little here and and a little there, in all fairness, was the way most of us would have done it. And no one really complained ...

 

.... until it was all about to come together ... and then bang ... with almost all the peices ready up came this new opportunity in the late summer of 2012 - a guy with a great reputation in that industry was being forced by circumstances, or is that machinations, to bail from his plan A for an commercial passenger airport in Gwinnett.

 

That we - our commissioners - saw the opportunity is a credit to them and they moved on it.

 

And about all they've gotten for their near brilliant assessment of the opportunity is grief from you folks.

 

Sure, they did what they'd always done - they 'got 'er dun' ... doing what they've always done - slam 'em at 10 a and bam 'em at 2 p.m. (or even sooner with the AA and their executive sessions.

 

It is all legal, all just the way folks have done things here for decades.

 

I think the chairman and several of the commissioners are really baffled at the reaction.

 

But then they weren't expecting the spin being impacted by spinmeisters that are professional in riling up folks, especially in political season.

 

You know, things like the story about the Austin Brothers plotting to take over the world as it appeared first on the stoneridge group's anti-airport site ... and later copied and pasted verbatim here by Whitey ... and then restated in one of his public speeches.

 

We all know that Delta and H-J are in this neck high and the assertions of 'no proof' of that are just part of the spin.

 

But take a real look at how this transpired and you see that the complaints are all hype and exaggeration based on stoking up opposition in a way that would make a boisterous benghali birther blush.

pubby

 

PS: You blushing Surepip? Tundra?

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.... until it was all about to come together ... and then bang ... with almost all the peices ready up came this new opportunity in the late summer of 2012 - a guy with a great reputation in that industry was being forced by circumstances, or is that machinations, to bail from his plan A for an commercial passenger airport in Gwinnett.

 

 

???????????

What are you smoking?What great reputation are you talking about?

 

Nobody has heard of this guy,he has no track record.

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???????????

What are you smoking?What great reputation are you talking about?

 

Nobody has heard of this guy,he has no track record.

Ummm yea, he admitted he's never run an airport before at that Chamber breakfast. Bam, Gwinett knew his deal was a bunch of made up numbers and tossed him to the curb. But somehow most of our commissioners think this is a good deal.

 

No track record, indeed. Where is his measly $500,000.00 escrow account he was supposed to set up as his end of the deal? Where is HIS investment in any of this. He's not ponied up one dime, the taxpayers gave them $1 million dollars in a loan from the IBA and 2.9 million more from the BOC.

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Tundra:

 

With the onslaught of litigation, not to mention the vilification from the anti-airport quarter, I'm actually pleased he's not bolted.

 

I suspect since the litigation has held up the county fulfilling its part of the bargain, and anyone would see that we're looking at a critical election in May, I suspect prudent money is left on the table, but not in the designated account.

 

I mean, what if you folks win? Would you fulfill the county's part of the bargain?

 

I didn't think so.

 

pubby

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Secret meetings, code names, forgetting about minutes............it may have an impact on the outcome of the election.

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legalities just on the tip of the fence. Legal, maybe if you have no ethics!!!! There is (IMO) a bunch of damn shame going on in PC.

Edited by rockster
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I see what you said. I did misinterpret the nature of it.

 

I think that 'forgiveness thing' certainly informed their decision to do it the way they do but I really don't think they did it because it makes the system prone to abuse. Maybe some of those who encouraged it - possibly elected but more likely not - had that in mind but I prefer not to think the worst about people. It makes appealing to their better instincts more difficult.

 

And recognize that the rough and tumble, back-stabbing, you're a wus if you don't call your opponent or this or that a scum sucker or the devil incarnate. That is the narrative and approach taught by the Rush Limbaugh's of the world as how this is supposed to happen but all it does is make governing virtually impossible. Think about it. I've got to work with all these people whether I win or lose.

 

pubby

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If the Commissioners had done what was PROMISED we would not have this mess today....All folks need to keep campaign promises. I knew you liked this method of Government Glad you was up front with the citizens before the vote

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If the Commissioners had done what was PROMISED we would not have this mess today....All folks need to keep campaign promises. I knew you liked this method of Government Glad you was up front with the citizens before the vote

 

And Alabama Gov. George Wallace once said "...segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever."

 

It's sometimes good when politicians have to go back on their word. Wouldn't you agree, Whitey?

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And at the time Governor Wallace made that speech, segregation was the legal written law of the land in Alabama, and for that matter Georgia as well.

 

It took Federal Legislation to over rule those state enacted Jim Crowe laws and put an end to segregation as a legal issue in Alabama, Georgia, and the rest of the USA.

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And at the time Governor Wallace made that speech, segregation was the legal written law of the land in Alabama, and for that matter Georgia as well.

 

It took Federal Legislation to over rule those state enacted Jim Crowe laws and put an end to segregation as a legal issue in Alabama, Georgia, and the rest of the USA.

 

It took more than just the law being written, Surepip. The law striking down separate but equal in education was passed in 1954 but even places like Boston were dealing with the issues of segregated housing and by extension schools through the 1970s. To assume that the law is capable of dictating progress fails.

 

Of greater importance was the change in attitude that George Wallace expressed over time.

 

 

 

1982 (to a Birmingham meeting of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, Wallace said:)

2_1_2grey.gif

"I did stand, with a majority of the white people, for the separation of the schools. But that was wrong, and that will never come back again."

 

1986 (on retiring; focus on personal changes)

2_1_2grey.gif

"I feel that I must say that I’ve climbed my last political mountain. But there’s still some personal hills that I must climb. But for now, I must pass the rope and the pick to another climber and say, ‘Climb on. Climb on to higher heights. Climb on till you reach the very peak.’ Then look back and wave at me, for I, too, will still be climbing."

 

 

 

Late ’80s (on how he would like to be remembered, to the "Birmingham News")

2_1_2grey.gif

"I would like to be remembered as one who opened up equal opportunity for all people…"

 

Late ’80s (to Stephan Lesher)

2_1_2grey.gif

"I don’t expect people to forget my brash words or deeds. But I ask that they try to remember the actions that I took that were designed to help them."

 

In the context of that last George Wallace quote: Wallace's final term as governor (1983–1987) saw a record number of black appointments to state positions,[54] including, for the first time, two black members in the same cabinet, a number that has been equaled but never surpassed.

 

Actions always speak louder than words and while laws are words with meaning, the human heart is the source of actions.

 

pubby

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Actions always speak louder than words and while laws are words with meaning, the human heart is the source of actions.

 

pubby

 

I agree 100%.

 

Words:

"never, ever would I be a part of that"

 

Actions:

Commercialization

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I agree 100%.

 

Words:

"never, ever would I be a part of that"

 

Actions:

Commercialization

 

There are religions that prohibit dancing; there are religions that prohibit drinking but I don't know of any religion that as a basic tenant a prohibition of passenger airplanes. There are passenger airplanes in Iran, Russia, Israel, Congo, South Africa, Virginia, Japan, China, etc.

 

Politicians have promised to keep counties dry, promised to ban dancing in small bergs and rural counties citing morality from their religion. Paulding county was one of those counties. Those promises were made by prior leaders and lo and behold we can buy booze and dance right here in Paulding county, Stradial.

 

There is nothing morally wrong with airplanes in general and nothing wrong with airplanes with passenger seats. And if there is nothing morally wrong with airplanes or airplanes with passenger seats, how can there be anything immoral with an airport where those airplanes land.

 

I think we all understand that promises by politicians are kept probably at a higher rate than are promises by our lovers who make their pledge with holy vows ... and break them at rate exceeding 50 percent.

 

We can think, we can intend to do right and we can say that as a promise. But when reality calls, we usually do what we have to do; what our gut and/or heart tells us to do. Some times it is the right thing if it comes from the heart even if it contradicts our words given at an earlier time.

 

But unlike marriage vows, infidelity, presumably breaking any of the more than 600 rules in Leviticus including the prohibition of pork - that was some good BBQ at Interroll today :) - we as a species break a ton of tacitly moral laws - and that complicates my generating high levels of indignation for a politican engineering a political policy change on the airport's use.

 

I surmise those who oppose the airport will continue to oppose the airport and those who support exploring this route (and others) to economic development and support the airport will rejoice in the change of policy.

 

pubby

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Pubby,

 

It is hard for me to take you serious when you are discussing the morality of airplanes. :fool:

 

I am going to go slam my head in the refrigerator now.

 

That is all.

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Pubby, as far as your last paragraph I assume many of those opposed to the airport today are of some that had to accept into a General Aviation type airport that was built against voter participation. Keep in mind it was voted down because folks thought the taxpayers would be picking up the cost. Then, OMG...........free MONEY!!!! won't cost a damn thing to build, and frees the taxpayers up!!! Guess what...........the taxpayers HAVE been paying for it in O&M costs, plus who knows what.

 

Economic development $$$$$$ should've been placed around the General Aviation airport instead of the problem stench infested movie studio. BTW, Blake mentioned in Dec that the Movie Studio had about four future prospects. Last month at the IBA he stated Roadtown Ent would have an announcement by the end of the week. Has anything been announced concerning getting some revenue to help pay off just the current monthly debt on the Movie Studio facilities????

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I surmise those who oppose the airport will continue to oppose the airport and those who support exploring this route (and others) to economic development and support the airport will rejoice in the change of policy.

 

pubby

 

I oppose those who say one thing and do the other, especially when they work for me and the rest of the public.

I have said many, many times, just be up front.

Tell us exactly what circumstances caused you to go back on your word and exactly why you felt the need to do so.

I'm a big boy, fairly bright, I can understand most if not all of why you are doing what you are doing, if you explain it.

BTW, it is not incumbent on me to figure out what caused you to go back on your word, it is up to you to tell me.

 

I oppose those who obfuscate and work in secret, then say trust me it is for your own good.

I said at the start and I say again, if it is such a great thing for the county, then why hasn't a news conference been help and the powers that be said, "Look good people, here is our wonderful plan to make life in our county better. See, we will do A, B C and D and then we will get results X,Y and Z. Isn't that great?"

And don't say they are scared of Delta, cause that is a cop out and you and I know it.

 

If you notice, what I am against has nothing to do with commercializing or not commercializing the airport.

What I am against is being screwed over while being told, you will like it, trust me.

Now that may not be happening, but the actions of those in power sure make it look like it is.

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I oppose those who say one thing and do the other, especially when they work for me and the rest of the public.

I have said many, many times, just be up front.

Tell us exactly what circumstances caused you to go back on your word and exactly why you felt the need to do so.

I'm a big boy, fairly bright, I can understand most if not all of why you are doing what you are doing, if you explain it.

BTW, it is not incumbent on me to figure out what caused you to go back on your word, it is up to you to tell me.

 

I oppose those who obfuscate and work in secret, then say trust me it is for your own good.

I said at the start and I say again, if it is such a great thing for the county, then why hasn't a news conference been help and the powers that be said, "Look good people, here is our wonderful plan to make life in our county better. See, we will do A, B C and D and then we will get results X,Y and Z. Isn't that great?"

And don't say they are scared of Delta, cause that is a cop out and you and I know it.

 

If you notice, what I am against has nothing to do with commercializing or not commercializing the airport.

What I am against is being screwed over while being told, you will like it, trust me.

Now that may not be happening, but the actions of those in power sure make it look like it is.

Yep what Stradial said

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I have to ask those folks that are finally aware of what is going on how would you get all the details about county business that you seek?

I have spent the last few years, attending meetings and asking questions. Pubby has published many, many, meetings just to see the front page videos get fewer than 50 views.

It is not easy to go to multiple meetings a week getting up early and sometimes staying late to get the rest of the story.

Those that did watch tended to have negative responses, nothing wrong with that, p.com is all about free speech.

I can tell you his videos and the community criticism did not endear him to county officials and still does not.

They all know what is being said on here if not firsthand then repeated by those that follow us.

The folks that utilize the site the site have zero appreciation of him or the site because they don't agree with him.

I have told him many times that as a democrat he has become an upfront target for those that blame the ills in their life on the democratic party.

 

So back to all the secrets and things you didn't know about.

Where exactly would public official publish everything you want to know?

What citizen has the responsibility of attending every meeting and reporting to you?

Why don't you go to all meetings open to the public?

 

The announcement that the airport is going commercial and the brew ha ha has caught people up on almost 2 years of secrets that were not secrets but knowledge they lacked because it was not published or they did not make any effort to find out.

 

Are all the road improvements over the next few years a big secret, according to some folks they are because nothing was published about them over the last year.

All of the BOC meetings are taped. Has anyone bothered to get them and publish them for all to see?

So all those BOC meetings are secret because they have not been published.

I highly doubt anyone attending an AA meeting directly asked what was being discussed.

Code names are not new, you won't be given the company name, but there are plenty of details if you ask.

 

The struggles of those effected by the airport could easily have been published for years. On here, on facebook, or even a personal blog. Have they been keeping secrets from you?

 

If the so called secrets are an issue for you then you need to do something about it. Ask that your county tape and publish these things or do it yourself.

 

I have had every reasonable question I have ever ask answered. Now if you come at folks with an attitude don't expect the answer to be as freely given.

 

I generally know the status of many of the issues that seem new to many of you.

In fact I know a lot of secrets, and I don't tell. You know why? because many so called secrets are unsubstantiated rumors. I am not going to go around telling something that I don't know is for sure is the truth.

 

I have known for a while that things at the airport are not going well. The tornado wiped out all the progress made over the years.

We lost all the planes that were paying taxes, we had to close the airport down for awhile, then had to work hard to get the word back out that we were open.

The little company that was working out there leasing the terminal was left with no income for a few months until the repairs were finished and their income did not come back up because the plane owners did not immediately replace their planes.

 

I knew that we had to do something quickly in the near future out there.

We were running out of time and money. The companies looking at our airport needed to see more before they considered moving operations there and we did not have the money to provide more.

Something had to give and it had to give soon.

 

It is our airport we should all want it to be a great airport. It is like buying your first home, it is not exactly what you want but you can't afford better. Do you not take care of it? make it the best little house it can be, because it is your home and you are proud of it.

 

I want us to have a good airport, I want it to be the best little airport it can be. I can not take pride in it if we destroy it's neighbors in the process and I have been clear on that.

As Pubby said it is what it is a place for airplanes to fly in and out of. A parking garage for very large machines that make our lives better when we want to travel.

It can generate jobs and tax dollars for our community. There is nothing bad about that. It certainly is no worse than the bumper to bumper traffic we deal with to support our families.

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At this point I would think they could call a press conference and not only would all of what constitutes Paulding County media, but some of the Atlanta media would attend.

How do they publish the info, how about during the open meetings, if they have done so it would be a matter of record and I wouldn't have a gripe.

There have been public meetings that they have been invited to, there have been scheduled meetings where questions along the lines of "what are the exact plans" have been asked and not answered, the list goes on.

 

As far as "so called secrets", I am of the opinion and yes it is just my opinion, that when you embark on a large project such as partnering with someone to commercialize your airport, you either have a well thought out plan of actions and specific goals in mind....or you don't.

If you do have such a plan, then why not explain it to the people, while it would not affect those who are against commercialization of the airport, nor would it affect those who are already for it (or for the people who propose it), but it would certainly have a HUGE impact on the people in the middle, which I believe if the majority of the people in the county.

If you have such a plan and do not explain it, then by definition, you are keeping it secret.

If you do not have such a plan and either say you do or say nothing, then again, by definition you are keeping that secret.

 

I go by my gut feeling a lot and my gut says that something is not quite right about this deal.

But then again, that could just be the mexican food I had.

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Pubby has published many, many, meetings just to see the front page videos get fewer than 50 views.

 

Just FYI. I view PCom 99% from my iphone. The front page videos will not show on the phone. Believe me, I have tried, many times. Hopefully, the update will change that. We'll see.

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Stradial:

 

Its the Mexican food. Did you see the Health Dept. report? It is definitely the Mexican.

 

There have been very few press conferences; most of them surround 'big media stories' ... i.e. press conferences are primarily for the major Atlanta media. Traditionally Paulding has been ignored by the Atlanta media except when a rapist is injured in the midst of a race and kills his victim, a former official gets chided for mowing his lawn, a major advertiser in the Atlanta DMA opens a state of the art facility here or a tornado destroys and airport and blows the roof off a school.

 

I think LPPT's description of how the tornado took the wind out of the sails of the airport is a key ingredient in this story as it points to the desperation of the county as the facility literally dropped off the map causing the situation that you folks are so critical of.

 

Then when they make, what in my mind is a brilliant observation of a good alternative - admittedly with out spending $150,000 to survey the community and another $200,000 to a consultant who would then recommend they do a press conference ... of course that would be after they would have under the operative bureaucratic rules had to spend $250,000 to assess the feasibility and marketability of the idea - decided to act without all that documentation.

 

Yes, it was a bit of flying by the seat of their pants but the indications are good, the area is growing and the investments made by the county will be enduring and of value whether or not the commercialization is successful or not. I.e. the plan "B" or what do we do in case of failure is plod on with a better, more capable facility.

 

There was a reason that the costs of baggage handling, tower and terminal security were largely placed on the tenant (propeller) ... while the concrete on the taxiway, the increased fire/EMS availability and I think the perimeter fence were local improvements. I.e. the local improvements to the facility, paid for by the taxpayer, were of value regardless.

 

Again, we go back to the anti-forces complaining because we haven't created a bureaucracy of immense proportions that makes the purchase of a pencil a million dollar expense because it has to be studied to the point of determining if the particular tree that the pencil's wood is derived happens to be on a parcel that might have some protected species that our purchase of a pencil requires we pay $2 million as mitigation for destruction of that insects habitat.

 

I thought you folks were conservatives! But all this study here and detail there and total ignorance of the competitive environment - which is really the source of the clues that this could be more successful than anyone dreams - and for that matter rejection by definition of competitiveness as a force to be promoted in society so as to make good, services, etc. better, more efficient.

 

Unbelievable, in my opinion. ... Yes, Stradial ... your upset definitely had to come from the Mexican food. Now mine comes from the argument we needed to spend a million dollars studying any of this so we could justify the $10 a year a typical Paulding County taxpayer may pay if it is a failure ... even though if it is a success it could potentially save them $300/year in additional taxes.

 

pubby


 

Just FYI. I view PCom 99% from my iphone. The front page videos will not show on the phone. Believe me, I have tried, many times. Hopefully, the update will change that. We'll see.

Babe cake: Can you view youtube videos?

 

pubby

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Pubby,

 

It is hard for me to take you serious when you are discussing the morality of airplanes.   :fool:

 

I am going to go slam my head in the refrigerator now.

 

That is all.

 

Thanks for understanding the point I was trying to make.

 

I've been slamming my head against the wall over the moral indignation that people have claimed over the decision to seize an opportunity that presented itself that no one really believed was worth the time of day until it appeared ... and not only appeared but appeared in such a way as to solve the issue rather elegantly.  I.e. we get what we want - industrialization and jobs around the airport, we get to share in the money that a commercial airport generates, we get the people who do this and want to do it and because they're leasing the space at the terminal, they pay us for the privilege instead of us having to pay them a retainer to do the job we want them to do.

 

There is no moral issue here.  The indignation over the promise of commercial airport was being presented as something morally equivalent to a person cheating on their spouse, committing a crime or, at least to the dominant Baptists doctrine that exists in the Bible Belt - liquor by the drink in restaurants and booze in stores.  Those are moral issues -  the airports use and utility in economic development  "AIN'T." - and that includes the promise not to go there.

 

The opportunity to do this presented itself and we changed our mind ought to be all the explanation anyone needs.

 

So, in that context:


pubby

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Stradial:

 

Its the Mexican food. Did you see the Health Dept. report? It is definitely the Mexican.

 

There have been very few press conferences; most of them surround 'big media stories' ... i.e. press conferences are primarily for the major Atlanta media. Traditionally Paulding has been ignored by the Atlanta media except when a rapist is injured in the midst of a race and kills his victim, a former official gets chided for mowing his lawn, a major advertiser in the Atlanta DMA opens a state of the art facility here or a tornado destroys and airport and blows the roof off a school.

 

I think LPPT's description of how the tornado took the wind out of the sails of the airport is a key ingredient in this story as it points to the desperation of the county as the facility literally dropped off the map causing the situation that you folks are so critical of.

 

Then when they make, what in my mind is a brilliant observation of a good alternative - admittedly with out spending $150,000 to survey the community and another $200,000 to a consultant who would then recommend they do a press conference ... of course that would be after they would have under the operative bureaucratic rules had to spend $250,000 to assess the feasibility and marketability of the idea - decided to act without all that documentation.

 

Yes, it was a bit of flying by the seat of their pants but the indications are good, the area is growing and the investments made by the county will be enduring and of value whether or not the commercialization is successful or not. I.e. the plan "B" or what do we do in case of failure is plod on with a better, more capable facility.

 

There was a reason that the costs of baggage handling, tower and terminal security were largely placed on the tenant (propeller) ... while the concrete on the taxiway, the increased fire/EMS availability and I think the perimeter fence were local improvements. I.e. the local improvements to the facility, paid for by the taxpayer, were of value regardless.

 

Again, we go back to the anti-forces complaining because we haven't created a bureaucracy of immense proportions that makes the purchase of a pencil a million dollar expense because it has to be studied to the point of determining if the particular tree that the pencil's wood is derived happens to be on a parcel that might have some protected species that our purchase of a pencil requires we pay $2 million as mitigation for destruction of that insects habitat.

 

I thought you folks were conservatives! But all this study here and detail there and total ignorance of the competitive environment - which is really the source of the clues that this could be more successful than anyone dreams - and for that matter rejection by definition of competitiveness as a force to be promoted in society so as to make good, services, etc. better, more efficient.

 

Unbelievable, in my opinion. ... Yes, Stradial ... your upset definitely had to come from the Mexican food. Now mine comes from the argument we needed to spend a million dollars studying any of this so we could justify the $10 a year a typical Paulding County taxpayer may pay if it is a failure ... even though if it is a success it could potentially save them $300/year in additional taxes.

 

pubby

 

Babe cake: Can you view youtube videos?

 

pubby

You should stick to FACTS PUBBY Clayton And Fulton County has the busiest airport in the world yet their taxes are much higher than ours and so is the crime rate, Not to mention the poor schools, Heck their was a time that Clayton County lost its accreditations even though as you assert the airport provides more taxes.

You really need to be truthful, Quit acting like some of these Paulding County Politicians

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You should stick to FACTS PUBBY Clayton And Fulton County has the busiest airport in the world yet their taxes are much higher than ours and so is the crime rate, Not to mention the poor schools, Heck their was a time that Clayton County lost its accreditations even though as you assert the airport provides more taxes.

You really need to be truthful, Quit acting like some of these Paulding County Politicians

 

I see, the fact that it has four interstate highways, numerous federal highways, numerous state roads and experienced a dramatic change in demographics since 1980 is due simply to the airport.

 

That change didn't happen until the City of Atlanta expanded dramatically the airport, destroying some neighborhoods. I remember the Interstate's were still under construction in the early 1980s and the fact that the Interstate Highways opened up suburban development further away from Atlanta on the south side had no impact on the issue. It was all, 100 percent the airport. Heck it didn't have anything to do with a myriad of other social and cultural changes that had absolutely nothing to do with the airport.

 

While it is admitted that the area around HJIA has a history of being crime ridden, if you grasp the theory that leaded gasoline is one of the prime causative agents of criminal behaviors - the topography of HJIA in relation to the major Interstate highways in Atlanta (I 285, I-75 and I-85 with their enormous automotive traffic would make that an area where residents were subject to lead poisoning.) - being the massive lead poisoning that we performed on ourselves. (source: skepticblog) Obviously being in the midst of three key Interstate Highways and numerous other routes.

 

 

That it remains the home of those who may have had their development impacted by massive amounts of lead simply compounds the fact.

 

But no, it is instead because of the totally unproven relationship that jet fuel - which can be organic in origin - is somehow some kind of bad wuju but only if it is used to fuel airplanes with passengers.

 

Give me some real logic, scientifically supportable logic Whitey. Your assertion is, was and always will be voodoo conjuring by someone whom I can only assume worked around cars burning leaded gasoline too long.

 

pubby

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Pubby, as far as your last paragraph I assume many of those opposed to the airport today are of some that had to accept into a General Aviation type airport that was built against voter participation. Keep in mind it was voted down because folks thought the taxpayers would be picking up the cost. Then, OMG...........free MONEY!!!! won't cost a damn thing to build, and frees the taxpayers up!!! Guess what...........the taxpayers HAVE been paying for it in O&M costs, plus who knows what.

 

Economic development $$$$$$ should've been placed around the General Aviation airport instead of the problem stench infested movie studio. BTW, Blake mentioned in Dec that the Movie Studio had about four future prospects. Last month at the IBA he stated Roadtown Ent would have an announcement by the end of the week. Has anything been announced concerning getting some revenue to help pay off just the current monthly debt on the Movie Studio facilities????

 

Great question. Has anyone heard anything??????

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I see, the fact that it has four interstate highways, numerous federal highways, numerous state roads and experienced a dramatic change in demographics since 1980 is due simply to the airport.

 

That change didn't happen until the City of Atlanta expanded dramatically the airport, destroying some neighborhoods. I remember the Interstate's were still under construction in the early 1980s and the fact that the Interstate Highways opened up suburban development further away from Atlanta on the south side had no impact on the issue. It was all, 100 percent the airport. Heck it didn't have anything to do with a myriad of other social and cultural changes that had absolutely nothing to do with the airport.

 

While it is admitted that the area around HJIA has a history of being crime ridden, if you grasp the theory that leaded gasoline is one of the prime causative agents of criminal behaviors - the topography of HJIA in relation to the major Interstate highways in Atlanta (I 285, I-75 and I-85 with their enormous automotive traffic would make that an area where residents were subject to lead poisoning.) - being the massive lead poisoning that we performed on ourselves. (source: skepticblog) Obviously being in the midst of three key Interstate Highways and numerous other routes.

 

 

That it remains the home of those who may have had their development impacted by massive amounts of lead simply compounds the fact.

 

But no, it is instead because of the totally unproven relationship that jet fuel - which can be organic in origin - is somehow some kind of bad wuju but only if it is used to fuel airplanes with passengers.

 

Give me some real logic, scientifically supportable logic Whitey. Your assertion is, was and always will be voodoo conjuring by someone whom I can only assume worked around cars burning leaded gasoline too long.

 

pubby

Pubby you stated...

" even though if it is a success it could potentially save them $300/year in additional taxes."

 

I responded.....

 

You should stick to FACTS PUBBY Clayton And Fulton County has the busiest airport in the world yet their taxes are much higher than ours and so is the crime rate, Not to mention the poor schools, Heck their was a time that Clayton County lost its accreditations even though as you assert the airport provides more taxes.

You really need to be truthful, Quit acting like some of these Paulding County Politicians

 

 

Are you feeling okay????

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Surepip:

 

I dispute your figures in large part because of the way the expenses have been variously estimated.

 

For instance, if there was no industrial development planned for the facility, it would be fine if it were to use an on-site septic system. Running sewerage service to the site is there for industrial development and is/was incidental to flying planes in and out. Its presence was not dictated by commercialization of the airport; it was obtained to make industrialization around the airport possible and is/was justifiable on that basis.

 

Ditto the extension of and increased infrastructure for fire service. Sure you can argue that a fire station or water tank tied to the county's water system is there for industrialization of the surrounding properties as well. I mean would you invest a hundred-million dollars in a warehouse and contents or assembly facility at a location with inadequate fire service? These infrastructure expansions, also part of the inflated costs you invent and ascribe to the airport, were created to provide the necessary infrastructure of industrial development.

 

It was only after these plans were made and we spent that money that the opportunity for bringing commercial air traffic to this facility even became a possibility. (We'd never had that thought or that opportunity until Gwinnett turned down the offer from Brett Smith and Propeller Investments. )

 

That Brett Smith was interested in finding a location that could be developed into a commercial airport in the Atlanta market certainly became obvious to us before July 2012 but we weren't even under consideration. One reason we weren't under consideration is that in his perception of Paulding's airport, we didn't have these kinds of pieces in place.

 

But the key understanding and belief is they weren't put into place to lure him or anyone into bringing commercial passenger service to Paulding. They were put there to ready the site for commercial industrial development.

 

Ultimately, it would make no sense to have put any effort into commercial and industrial development or recruitment of companies for the property around the airport without these infrastructure improvements.

 

My reading is that it was totally serendipitous that we had these infrastructure improvements in place for industrial development around the airport when Propeller Investments happened to fail on their plan A which was to enter the market for bringing competition to Hartsfield-Jackson; creating the opportunity.

 

I don't for a minute think that these improvements were planned for that purpose. Indeed, these improvements were planned independently for the type of commercial/industrial development that you, mojo, and possibly even Whitey say you support.

 

That leaves our local leaders, who haven't been successful in breaking the ice on development at the airport, with the dilemma of do they wait another four years for that ice-breaking industrial development we know will come ... or do we take a shot at making this game-changing move by recruiting the guy who is so obviously looking for a place to bring in competition for commercial passenger airline service.

 

The costs and projects that you ascribe all these costs for were put in place to make this a project worth pursing for industrial development and with general community support for industrialization high.

 

The point is it would have been enormously stupid not to have sought this opportunity for a quicker payoff from our local investment.

 

pubby

So if I understand what you are saying the IBA PCAA and the BOC knew that the tax payers were going to have to put in Sewerage, Water Tank, Fire station Fencing Widening the Taxi way etc. just to make the airport functional to use as a General Aviation airport, And it just so happened that they Chased Brett Smith down and got him to agree on Converting the airport into Commercial Passenger service..... Yea RIGHT!!!!! That's Right

Pubby you are running for public office to represent the post that the airport is in its time for you to get serious and quit the BS

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Whitey I don't understand what you have an issue with. This airport has been being built piece by piece for years.

This is not news, anyone keeping up with it knows that. The plan has been in place for years. Not just the airport but preparation for it to be a major industrial area.

 

I read your rant about the Atlanta airport ,it was fine for those people to make all the sacrifices so you and 1000's more could have good paying jobs and good retirement.

The time has come that our people are sacrificing trying to support their families here. The fuel prices and time away from family has become too much. They want local jobs and a healthy local economy.

 

I know, I put my son in a school in Powder springs, it took us slightly over 20 minutes each way. 10 years later it took close to an hour. We started out with six lights to get him there and in 10 years we had over 18 traffic lights to go one way.

 

You see only what you want to see. You talk to your own peer group and those that geographically are most likely to agree with you.

 

You may think that only your post commissioner controls what happens in your district. All the commissioners effect all of us.

I concern myself with other post as much as my own.

We have some problems with the way we are doing business, that needs to change.

The airport needs to expand and be profitable period. I would be more concerned if a commissioner claimed he would keep it in the red to keep his constituents happy.

 

Failure is not a positive thing.

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