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"Runaway Jury"


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#1 zoocrew

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:40 PM

Great movie. Anyone seen it?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.c...ed/c80vGyzA0LI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#2 TabbyCat

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:48 PM

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  • really gone from here likes this

#3 SushiBoofay

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:42 PM

Great movie. Anyone seen it?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.c...ed/c80vGyzA0LI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Yes! It has a lot of great twists.

Watched No Way Out tonight. Great twist in that one too!
A stout-hearted mouse can lift an elephant

#4 zoocrew

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:44 PM

Yes! It has a lot of great twists.

Watched No Way Out tonight. Great twist in that one too!


I'm not asking about the Tonight. Not going there. Won't. Hope you had fun!

#5 ~Chester~

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:50 AM

Yes. But they changed what the trial was about from the book.

#6 PUBBY

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 08:42 AM

Yes. But they changed what the trial was about from the book.


Yes, the book involved tobacco companies and the movie involved guns.

Of course the Republican Congress in 2005, passed legislation making it impossible to sue gun manufacturers for their complicity in the deaths wrought by their product.

This was done after bushmaster and the gun dealer whose 'security' against theft was dismal, settled a cast in 2004 involving the victims in the DC sniper case.

The basis of the plaintiff's lawsuit was that Bushmaster sold firearms to a gun dealer that had a record of poor security at its store. Bull's Eye could not account for the sale of 233 weapons when investigated by the ATF. In fact, investigators believe that convicted teenaged sniper Lee Boyd Malvo shoplifted the .223-caliber XM 14 Bushmaster rifle from the store.


The state of New York was also suing gun manufacturers in 2005 when the Congress, at the behest of the NRA, passed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. That law requires the courts to dismiss any

civil action or proceeding . . . brought by any person against a manufacturer or seller of a [firearm distributed in interstate or foreign commerce] . . . for damages, punitive damages, injunctive or declaratory relief, abatement, restitution, fines, or penalties, or other relief, resulting from the criminal or unlawful misuse of a [firearm distributed in interstate or foreign commerce] by the person or a third party.


Of course just giving the gun industry a pass - the lawsuit in the movie is now impossible - is not all that advantage the gun industry with the help of the NRA has wrought in terms of putting guns in the hands of criminals. (It should come as no surprise that the gun industry really doesn't care whose hands guns fall into; indeed, they reason logically that more guns in the hands of more criminals means more sales in general as the mayhem guns in criminal hands cause fuels the fear that fuels the fear and their sales.)

An editorial in today's NYTimes entitled "A Broken System for Tracking Guns" states how this lobbying has impacted enforcement.

snip ... Congress need to be equally serious about strengthening the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the beleaguered agency charged with enforcing federal firearm regulations.

Ending the bureau’s leadership vacuum is the first challenge.
snip ... (the ATF has not had a director since 2006 when the NRA engineered a provision requiring senate confirmation of the ATF director; somewhat unprecedented given the bureau's position on the national organizational chart.)

The bureau — which should have a lead role in protecting the nation from gun crimes — has been severely hindered by an array of N.R.A.-backed legislative restrictions.

For example, a 1986 law prohibits A.T.F. agents from making more than one unannounced inspection a year on a gun dealer, a rule that serves no purpose other than protecting unscrupulous dealers. (As it is, a lack of agents means that a gun shop can go years between inspections.)

The same law makes it extremely difficult to pull the licenses of rogue gun dealers. The government must show not just that the conduct was intentional but that the violator knew it was illegal.

Language included in every A.T.F. appropriations bill since 1979 has prohibited the bureau from putting gun sales records into a central computer database. That means workers at the bureau’s tracing center often must call gun makers and sellers and go through paper files to identify the buyer of a gun linked to a crime.

Finally, the so-called Tiahrt amendments, attached to federal spending bills, require the federal government to destroy the background check records of gun buyers within 24 hours of approval. That makes it very hard to identify dealers who falsify sales records.

Link to the full editorial


The Tiahrt amendments also make it difficult to identify strawman purchasers who actively engage in the purchase and resale of guns to criminals. Gun manufacturer complicity in providing guns to dealers who resell to strawmen was at the root of the legal issue in the movie, which incidentally was before Congress passed the law making such a lawsuit impossible.

So while being a strawman purchaser of guns and trafficking in them to places like the south side of Chicago is tacitly illegal, proving the illegality is complicated by the politically inspired destruction of evidence made possibly by the Tiahrt amendments.

Of course keeping funding of the ATF low also complicates investigations because manpower and resources are just not available.

Most who are concerned about guns in society would consider it duplicitous that even reasonable laws designed to keep guns out of the hands of criminals are under-funded and undermined.

The incentives of rising violence are such that having guns in the hands of criminals - making sure that criminals can get guns makes me wonder if the real agenda of the NRA and gun industry is only to sell more guns.

pubby

#7 lawlady

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 08:47 AM

I loved the movie - "Runaway Jury".

#8 really gone from here

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 08:53 AM

Yes, the book involved tobacco companies and the movie involved guns.

Of course the Republican Congress in 2005, passed legislation making it impossible to sue gun manufacturers for their complicity in the deaths wrought by their product.

This was done after bushmaster and the gun dealer whose 'security' against theft was dismal, settled a cast in 2004 involving the victims in the DC sniper case.




The incentives of rising violence are such that having guns in the hands of criminals - making sure that criminals can get guns makes me wonder if the real agenda of the NRA and gun industry is only to sell more guns.

pubby

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