[PUBBY]

Here is a cspan interview with one of those folks who is seeking to tighten the laws regarding gun sales.

The key thing is that among the things that apparently are off the table are:

- a national gun registry
- a tax on ammunition
- confiscation of weapons



The discussions here are based on misplaced fears and concerns.

What the agenda appears to be is limiting the gun show loophole that allows non-FFL sellers - aka hobbyists - to sell guns without background checks.

Install, after a vacancy that has existed over six years, a permanent head of the ATF.

Allow acquisition of more reliable data regarding sales of weapons.

The discussion avoids the extremes including the extreme fears from both sides.

Yes, the right seems to fear that every action is aimed at confiscating guns.

And from everything I've seen, the left, at its most extreme, seems interested in limiting the number of rounds that can be loaded into a magazine to something like 10 rounds by banning the future sale of higher capacity magazines.

The video also reiterates the common sense understanding that no one is out to confiscate anyone's guns if for no other reason it would take all the effort of the federal government for a period of 15 years to do so (not that it wouldn't be political suicide as well.)

pubby

[PUBBY]

Following is the full transcript of the show. I hid it behind a spoiler so those who have read it (or listened to the show) won't have to scroll past it.

Spoiler

00:00:11
Slen, Peter - Host
WE ARE JOINED BY MATT DID BENNETT, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF A GROUP CALLED THIRD WAY. WHAT IS THIRD WAY? GUEST:
00:00:24
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
WE COVER A RANGE OF ISSUES.
00:00:28
Slen, Peter - Host
HOST: WHO ARE SOME OF THE MEMBERS OF YOUR THINK TANK? GUEST: WOULD HAVE GOT
00:00:35
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
A BOARD OF TRUSTEES AND HONORARY CO-CHAIR IS WHERE CURRENT POLITICIANS. MOSTLY DEMOCRATS. WE DO WORK WITH REPUBLICANS FREQUENTLY ON A LOT OF THINGS. HOST::...
00:00:57
Slen, Peter - Host
ON TO TALK ABOUT -- YOU ALSO WORKED AS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR AMERICANS FOR GUN SAFETY. WE HAVE INVITED YOU ON TODAY TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THESE RELATED...
00:01:16
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
WHO YOU BUY A GUN FROM, BUT FOR THE MOST PART PEOPLE BUY THEIR GUNS FROM FEDERALLY LICENSED GUN DEALERS. EVEN IF YOU BUY A GUN AT A GUN SHOW FOR A LICENSED...
00:01:54
Slen, Peter - Host
FEDERALLY REGISTERED DEALER, RIGHT?
00:01:56
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
GUEST: RIGHT. HOST: THE INSTANT CHECK,
00:02:08
Slen, Peter - Host
WHERE DOES THAT INFORMATION GO? GUEST: YOU FILL OUT A
00:02:13
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
FORM WHERE YOU ATTESTED YOU DO NOT FALL INTO ONE OF 19 PROHIBITED CATEGORIES. YOU'RE NOT A CONVICTED FELON, YOU OF NOT BEEN ADJUDICATED MENTALLY ILL....
00:02:48
Slen, Peter - Host
THE FBI GETS THE DATA?
00:02:51
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
GUEST: MOSTLY. HOST: WHAT IF YOU DO NOT
00:02:56
Slen, Peter - Host
BUY YOUR GUN FROM A FEDERALLY REGISTERED GUN SHOP? GUEST: THIS
00:03:02
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
WAS ONE OF THE BIG HOLES LEFT IN THE BRADY ACT. IF YOU DO NOT BUY A GUN FROM A FEDERAL LICENSED DEALER, THEY DO NOT DO BACKGROUND CHECKS. THEY CANNOT...
00:03:23
Slen, Peter - Host
IS THAT LEGAL? GUEST:
00:03:27
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
IT IS LEGAL IN SOME STATES. IN SOME STATES, TO BUY AGAIN, YOU NEED TO HAVE A LICENSE. -- A GUN, YOU NEED TO HAVE A LICENSE. THE BIG PROBLEM IS AT GUN...
00:04:21
Slen, Peter - Host
OF WHETHER YOU FALL INTO ONE OF THESE 19 CATEGORIES?
00:04:26
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
GUEST: CORRECT. YOU COULD NOT BUY FROM A FEDERAL LICENSED DEALER, BUT YOU CAN BUY IT RIGHT NEXT DOOR FROM AN UNLICENSED SELLERS. THAT IS THE CONTROLGUN...
00:04:44
Slen, Peter - Host
GUN SALES ARE FROM LICENSED DEALERS? GUEST: THE NRA AND
00:04:52
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
OTHERS HAVE SCARED CONGRESS INTO PASSING ALL KINDS OF RULES AGAINST KEEPING DATA. WE DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE. SOME ESTIMATES PUT IT AT 40% OF GUNS ARE SOLD...
00:05:21
Slen, Peter - Host
TO HAMPER, IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES." GUEST:
00:05:35
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
WE DO NOT HAVE A REGISTRY OF GUNS. WE DO NOT HAVE A REGISTRY OF GUN OWNERS. THE RULES ARE THE OPPOSITE. THE FBI CANNOT KEEP DATA ON ITS GUN CHECKS FOR...
00:06:21
Slen, Peter - Host
PURGE WITHIN 24 HOURS. COULD SOMEBODY BUY A GUN EVERY TWO OR THREE DAYS? GUEST: IN MOST
00:06:32
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
STATES, THERE ARE NO LIMITS AT ALL. YOU COULD BUY AS MANY GUNS AS YOU LIKE. HOST:
00:06:39
Slen, Peter - Host
IN ONE STOP? GUEST:
00:06:43
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
IN ONE STOP. PEOPLE OFTEN DO. THE WAY WE DEFINE WHO IS A LICENSED GUN DEALER IS VERY VAGUE. THE LAW SAYS IF YOU'RE IN THE BUSINESS OF SELLING GUNS, YOU...
00:07:14
Slen, Peter - Host
IT COMES TO ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, AND FIREARMS? ACCORDING TO THE "WASHINGTON POST," ONE OF THEIR JOBS IS TO INSPECT RETAIL GUN DEALERS. BECAUSE OF THEIR LIMITATIONS,...
00:07:42
Slen, Peter - Host
DO ALCOHOL AND TOBACCO. THIS IS A MASSIVELY UNDER RESOURCES AGENCY WITH MUCH MORE TO DO THAN IT CAN POSSIBLY EVER HOPE TO DO. WHEN YOU HAVE HIGH-PROFILE...
00:08:17
Slen, Peter - Host
BENNETT OF THE THIRD WAY. HE WORKED FOR PRESIDENT CLINTON AS A DEPUTY ASSISTANT AND FOR VICE PRESIDENT GORE ANSWER FOR SEVERAL YEARS AS DIRECTOR OF...
00:08:40
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
I AM NOT. I HAVE SPENT A LOT OF TIME FIRING GUNS. I'VE BEEN AT MANY GUN STORES AND GUN SHOWS. HOST: HOW
00:08:50
Slen, Peter - Host
WOULD YOU PERSONALLY LIKE TO SEE THE SECOND AMENDMENT AMENDED? GUEST:
00:08:59
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
THE SUPREME COURT GOT IT RIGHT WHEN THEY RULED IN THE CASE OF HELLER. THEY SAID, THERE IS A RIGHT TO OWN A GUN IN THIS COUNTRY. THERE ARE ABOUT 250 TO...
00:09:37
Slen, Peter - Host
HOST: SUCH AS? GUEST:
00:09:40
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
GOT TO CLOSE THE GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE. THE SECOND THING WE HAVE TO DO IS FIX THE BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM. THERE IS STILL A LOT OF DATA NOT IN THE SYSTEM....
00:10:25
Slen, Peter - Host
SET ASIDE OUR FOURTH LINE FOR GUN OWNERS TO HEAR YOUR VIEWS ON OUR CONVERSATION. USER 2-585-383 -- 2024585-3883. -- 202-585-3883. CALLER: I PLAN ON OPENING
00:10:57
CALLER, -
THE LAW OF THE LAND. THE FIRST STEP ON CONFISCATION IS REGISTRATION. HOST: IS THAT
00:11:06
Slen, Peter - Host
THE ARGUMENT AGAINST ELECTRONIC REGISTRATION, IN YOUR VIEW? CALLER: THAT
00:11:12
CALLER, -
IS RIGHT. THAT IS THE FIRST STEP IN DISARMING THE POPULACE. PROTECT YOURSELF AGAINST TYRANNY IN GOVERNMENT, THAT IS WHAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT WAS POOR....
00:11:34
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
FREQUENTLY FROM THE GUN RIGHTS COMMUNITY. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT REGISTERING GUNS. THAT IS GONE FROM THE DISCUSSION. THERE ARE SOME STATES THAT...
00:13:12
Slen, Peter - Host
HOST: ROSE IN TENNESSEE. CALLER: MR. BENNETT,
00:13:18
CALLER, -
I AM SO PRIVILEGED TO TALK TO YOU THIS MORNING. I HAVE AN IDEA THAT -- COPS HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR BULLETS. WHY DOES ANYONE NEED 100 OR 300 BULLETS. WHY...
00:14:03
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
IDEA THAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED. ONE WAY TO DO IT IS TO TAX AMMUNITION. RATIONING PROBABLY IS NOT GOING TO WORK. IT CERTAINLY WOULD NOT WORK POLITICALLY...
00:15:07
Slen, Peter - Host
KANSAS ON OUR GUN OWNER LINE. -- IRIS IN WICHITA, KANSAS ON OUR GUN OWNER LINE. CALLER: A LOT TO ASK
00:15:17
CALLER, -
MR. BENNETT GOT IT IS CONCERNED ABOUT THE MURDERS TAKING PLACE IN CHICAGO. -- I WANT TO ASK MR. BENNETT IF HE IS CONCERNED ABOUT THE MURDERS TAKING PLACE...
00:15:39
Slen, Peter - Host
WHAT KIND OF GUN TO YOUR OWN? -- DO YOU OWN? CALLER:
00:15:47
CALLER, -
WE HAVE HUNTING GUNS. MY HUSBAND AND I THOUGHT CURED AND THE BOYS LIKE TO HUNT. -- HUNT, AND THE BOYS LIKE TO HUNT. AND WE HAVE A SMALL HANDGUN. HOST:...
00:16:01
Slen, Peter - Host
THANKS, IRIS. LET'S GET A RESPONSE ON CHICAGO, VERY REGULATED WHEN IT COMES TO GUNS, AND "THE FAST AND FURIOUS." GUEST: WHAT HAPPENS
00:16:16
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
IN CITIES LIKE CHICAGO IS THAT GUNS FALL INTO THE HANDS OF CRIMINALS BECAUSE THEY START AS A LEGAL PRODUCT. GUNS THAT ARE MANUFACTURED ARE VIRTUALLY...
00:18:01
Slen, Peter - Host
BEST WAY TO GET DETAILED INFO ON GUN LAWS FOR YOUR OWN PARTICULAR SET? -- PARTICULARS?
00:18:11
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
GUEST: GENERALLY, THE STATE POLICE WILL OF INFORMATION. THERE ARE GUN GROUPS LIKE THE COALITION TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE AND VIOLENCE POLICY CENTER. THEY...
00:18:45
Slen, Peter - Host
NEED TO DO IS REGISTER EVERY GUN. NEXT CALL COMES FROM JEFF IN TEXAS, REPUBLICAN LINE. CALLER: BACK WHEN I WAS
00:19:04
CALLER, -
A TEENAGER, I DID SOMETHING STUPID AND GOT A FELONY CHARGE. I AM 45 YEARS OLD NOW. THEY STILL HOLD THAT AGAINST ME. I AM BOWHUNTING BECAUSE I AM STILL...
00:19:30
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
A PROBLEM THAT WE HEAR QUITE A BIT. PEOPLE HAVE COMPLETELY REFORMED THEMSELVES AFTER COMMITTING CRIMES, BUT ARE NONETHELESS UNABLE TO GET THEM. THERE...
00:20:47
Slen, Peter - Host
WHERE THE GUN OWNERS ARE, GOOD OR BAD COMMENT. GUEST: IT OUT SOME
00:21:01
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
PEOPLE, LIKE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE VICTIMS AND OTHERS WHO HAVE GUNS WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE THEIR NAMES AND ADDRESSES PRINTED IN THE NEWSPAPER. IT DOES NOT DO...
00:21:39
Slen, Peter - Host
HOST: 16.4 MILLION BACKGROUND CHECKS IN 2010. LESS THAN 1% WERE DENIED. DOES THAT FIGURE SURPRISE YOU?
00:21:51
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
GUEST: THAT IS PRETTY STANDARD. JUST UNDER 900 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN -- 900,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DENIED. IT IS A SELF SELECTING SYSTEM. MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT...
00:22:21
Slen, Peter - Host
DEMOCRAT. CALLER: DIVIDERS OF
00:22:30
CALLER, -
THE CONSTITUTION -- THE WRITERS OF THE CONSTITUTION DID NOT HAVE TO ANY CONTEMPLATION BUT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THESE TYPES OF WEAPONS AND MAGAZINES...
00:23:04
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
THAT HAS OCCUPIED LEGAL SCHOLARS AND JUDGES FOR A LONG TIME. IT IS STILL IN THE MINDS OF MANY VERY MUCH AN OPEN QUESTION ABOUT WHAT THE FOUNDERS INTENDED...
00:24:02
Slen, Peter - Host
YORK TIMES," ABOUT THE ATF AND BECKER AND CHECKS, WHEN LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS RECOVER A GUN, WORKERS AT THE BUREAUS NATIONAL TRACING CENTER IN WEST...
00:25:16
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
BIGGER PROBLEMS THAN THAT. WHEN YOU DO A GUN TRACE, ALL YOU GET IS THE FIRST SALE. THE MANUFACTURER CAN TELL YOU WHERE YOUTHE GUN WENT, BUT THEN GUNS...
00:25:46
Slen, Peter - Host
ABOUT SERIAL NUMBERS BEING SCRAPED OFF OF GUNS. GUEST: IT IS POSSIBLE FOR
00:25:53
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
SOME GUNS TO OBLITERATE A SERIAL NUMBER BY FILING IT OFF. IF THAT IS DONE, IT BECOMES IMPOSSIBLE TO TRACE THE GUN. CARS NOW PUT THE NUMBERS ON VIRTUALLY...
00:26:30
CALLER, -
CALLER: YOU ABOUT SO MANY OF THE MARKET SUPPLIERS OUT THERE. NOW YOU COME IN TO THE PROBLEM OF ADDING SEVERAL NUMBERS TO EVERY PART OF A RIFLE THAT I...
00:26:57
Slen, Peter - Host
HOST: JAMES, WHAT WAS YOUR ORIGINAL COMMENT OR QUESTION? CALLER: IF PEOPLE ARE GOING
00:27:03
CALLER, -
TO BUY GUNS, THEY NEED EDUCATION. THEY NEED SOME TRAINING. I AM NOT OPPOSED TO THAT. AS A GUN OWNER, I AM CONCERNED THIS IS BEING USED AS A RESTRICTION...
00:27:31
Slen, Peter - Host
COULD ASK YOU ONE QUICK QUESTION, WE GOT A THREE TITWEET HERE. CALLER: I AM ABOUT
00:27:53
CALLER, -
AN HOUR FROM NEWTOWN. ITALY MAKES A DIFFERENCE IF SHE DID NOT HAVE HER FIREARMS SECURED. -- IT ONLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE IF SHE DID NOT HAVE HER FIREARMS...
00:28:13
Slen, Peter - Host
FOR YOUR TIME. GUEST: JAMES IS RIGHT ABOUT
00:28:18
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
THE ISSUE WITH SERIAL NUMBERS ON VARIOUS PARTS. PARTICULARLY ASSAULT RIFLES AND CAN BE REASSEMBLED IN VARIOUS WAYS. THERE ARE THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE....
00:29:41
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
ILLEGAL IN UNITED STATES SINCE THE 1930'S. HOST: WHEN IT COMES
00:29:46
Slen, Peter - Host
TO A BUSHMASTER, A HANDGUN, OR THE BACKGROUND CHECKS THE SAME FOR ALL OF THOSE DIFFERENT TYPES OF WEAPONS? GUEST: IT DOES NOT
00:29:55
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
MATTER WHETHER YOU'RE BUYING A .22 OR BUSHMASTER. IT IS THE SAME BACKGROUND CHECK. THERE IS THE SAME LACK OF REQUIREMENT FOR ANY SORT OF TRAINING.
00:30:11
Slen, Peter - Host
HOST: LEVI IN NEBRASKA. PLEASE GO AHEAD. CALLER: TAXING AMMO IS
00:30:21
CALLER, -
GOING TO DO NOTHING BUT MAKE IT HARDER FOR THE ILLEGAL GUN OWNERS. IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATISTICS FROM THE FBI, MOST CRIMINALS ARE EITHER STOLEN GUNS...
00:31:35
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
FOR THAT. IN SOME STATES, THAT IS THE PROCESS. IN MOST, IT IS NOT. IN MOST STATES, YOU CAN BUY A GUN WITH NO QUESTIONS ASKED. YOU CANNOT HAVE TO PAY...
00:32:33
CALLER, -
CALLER: IF WE'RE GOING TO CONTROL ANYTHING ABOUT THESE GUN LAWS, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF I CAN PURCHASE A GUN LEGALLY AND BE A GUN OWNER, SAY THAT I COULD...
00:33:17
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
COULD EXPLAIN THAT. YOU PUT YOUR FINGER ON THIS ENORMOUS PROBLEM WHICH WE CALL THE GUN SHOW LOCAL. DO NOT HAVE TO WAIT ANYMORE. WHEN THE BRADY ACT WAS...
00:33:50
Slen, Peter - Host
YOU GO IN TO A FEDERAL LICENSED DEALER, 90 SECONDS? GUEST: JUST
00:33:55
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
ABOUT. IT DOES HAPPEN THE LEGAL PURCHASERS GET HELD UP OCCASIONALLY. SOMETIMES THE SYSTEM GETS OVERLOADED. THERE'S BEEN A GIGANTIC SPIKE IN GUN SALES,...
00:34:54
Slen, Peter - Host
MILLION BACKGROUND CHECKS IN 2010. LESS THAN 1% DENIED, BUT 78,000 WERE DENIED. HOST:JOHN IS A GUN OWNER. CALLER:
00:35:12
CALLER, -
GOOD MORNING. WITH REGISTRATION, THAT ALWAYS GIVES THE GOVERNMENT THE ABILITY TO TAKE YOUR GUNS, AS WAS SEEN IN ENGLAND AND AUSTRALIA. WITHIN A FEW YEARS...
00:36:06
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT STRAW BUYERS. SOMEBODY CAN PASS THE BACKGROUND CHECK AND PASSED THE GUN ON TO SOMEBODY WHO CANNOT. YOU SEE THIS HAPPENING IN CERTAIN...
00:36:47
Slen, Peter - Host
IS THIS OUR USUAL KNEE-JERK REACTION TO A HORRIFIC EVENT? DO YOU SEE ANY CHANCE FOR REAL REFORM? GUEST: NOBODY KNOWS THE
00:36:57
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
ANSWER TO THAT YET. A LOT OF IT WILL BE WRAPPED UP IN CONGRESS. IF THEY CAN GET DEALS DONE ON SOMETHING, WE'RE PRETTY HOPEFUL THAT SOME ACTION CAN BE...
00:37:26
Slen, Peter - Host
NOT HAD A PERMANENT LEADER FOR SIX YEARS. GUEST: IT IS A HUGE
00:37:35
Bennett, Matt - Vice President
PROBLEM. IT IS A SIGN OF HOW THE NRA WORKS IN WASHINGTON. THE OF THE VERY EFFECTIVE JOB OF STEERING THAT AGENCY BY THREATENING ITS BUDGET -- SCARING...
00:38:11
Slen, Peter - Host
WE HAVE BEEN TALKING TO MATT BENNETT OF THIRD WAY. COMING UP A 10:00 A.M., THE SENATE WILL BE IN SESSION. THEY DO NOT HAVE THE FISCAL CLIFF ON THEIR AGENDA,...

[~Chester~]

The only thing new gun control does is put limits on what a law abiding citizen can or can not do and fails miserably because criminals could really care less and have pretty much proven that they don't follow the law.

Think I will hold on to my stash of 30 and 20 round mags I acquired while in the Army.

[CitizenCain]

~Chester~, on 27 December 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

The only thing new gun control does is put limits on what a law abiding citizen can or can not do and fails miserably because criminals could really care less and have pretty much proven that they don't follow the law.

Think I will hold on to my stash of 30 and 20 round mags I acquired while in the Army.

The buzz going around the net is a 20 dollar 30 rd mag could go for a hundred bucks if they are banned, so maybe you should stock up.

[TNlamb]

PUBBY, on 27 December 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Here is a cspan interview with one of those folks who is seeking to tighten the laws regarding gun sales.

The key thing is that among the things that apparently are off the table are:

- a national gun registry
- a tax on ammunition
- confiscation of weapons

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The discussions here are based on misplaced fears and concerns.

What the agenda appears to be is limiting the gun show loophole that allows non-FFL sellers - aka hobbyists - to sell guns without background checks.

Install, after a vacancy that has existed over six years, a permanent head of the ATF.

Allow acquisition of more reliable data regarding sales of weapons.

The discussion avoids the extremes including the extreme fears from both sides.

Yes, the right seems to fear that every action is aimed at confiscating guns.

And from everything I've seen, the left, at its most extreme, seems interested in limiting the number of rounds that can be loaded into a magazine to something like 10 rounds by banning the future sale of higher capacity magazines.

The video also reiterates the common sense understanding that no one is out to confiscate anyone's guns if for no other reason it would take all the effort of the federal government for a period of 15 years to do so (not that it wouldn't be political suicide as well.)

pubby

Not to mention constitutional suicide.

[CitizenCain]

TNlamb, on 27 December 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

Not to mention constitutional suicide.

Oh give me a break, I have noticed the biggest supporters of the Constitution only support it as long as it suits their purpose. How Rowe vs Wade and ObamaCare they were found Constructional do you support those ?

[TabbyCat]

Because the laws against stealing guns and using them in crime are already working SO well.

[TNlamb]

CitizenCain, on 27 December 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

Oh give me a break, I have noticed the biggest supporters of the Constitution only support it as long as it suits their purpose. How Rowe vs Wade and ObamaCare they were found Constructional do you support those ?

Neither of those are specifically mentioned in the constitution. Therefore, they are open to interpretation.
If you think gun control laws are constitutional, you really need to take a break and read up on the intentions of the framers of that document.

[sm0kediver]

How do you boil a frog? A little at a time.

If the city you live in is the site of a natural disaster (like Katrina) there's no law enforcement. Looting and lawlessness will be rampant. You'll be the only security your family has. What size magazine do you want?

As the anti gun people are quick to point out, there are staggering numbers of guns out there. There's no possible way to prevent criminals from getting any kind of gun they want (or magazine or ammo etc.) No law can ever shut down the used market or black market. Why does it make sense to prevent law abiding citizens from obtaining weapons with at least the capabilities of their potential adversaries?

A cheesy bumper sticker truly says it best: When we outlaw guns (*or certain guns, or certain magazines, or certain ammo*), only outlaws will have them.

[NC-17]

sm0kediver, on 27 December 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

How do you boil a frog? A little at a time.

If the city you live in is the site of a natural disaster (like Katrina) there's no law enforcement. Looting and lawlessness will be rampant. You'll be the only security your family has. What size magazine do you want?

As the anti gun people are quick to point out, there are staggering numbers of guns out there. There's no possible way to prevent criminals from getting any kind of gun they want (or magazine or ammo etc.) No law can ever shut down the used market or black market. Why does it make sense to prevent law abiding citizens from obtaining weapons with at least the capabilities of their potential adversaries?

A cheesy bumper sticker truly says it best: When we outlaw guns (*or certain guns, or certain magazines, or certain ammo*), only outlaws will have them.

SYLO!!!!

I'm not quite sure what purpose a national registry would serve. my tire iron, lug nuts, pocket knife, and waist chains aren't registered. the government feels no need to have a record of my kitchen utensils...why do they need to know about my guns?

[sm0kediver]

NC-17, on 27 December 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

SYLO!!!!

I'm not quite sure what purpose a national registry would serve. my tire iron, lug nuts, pocket knife, and waist chains aren't registered. the government feels no need to have a record of my kitchen utensils...why do they need to know about my guns?

Wrong Outlaws NC-17

[NC-17]

sm0kediver, on 27 December 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Wrong Outlaws NC-17

oh.

[CitizenCain]

TNlamb, on 27 December 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Neither of those are specifically mentioned in the constitution. Therefore, they are open to interpretation.
If you think gun control laws are constitutional, you really need to take a break and read up on the intentions of the framers of that document.

The 18th amendment Establishes the prohibition of alcohol .

[TNlamb]

CitizenCain, on 27 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

The 18th amendment Establishes the prohibition of alcohol .

Good luck!

[MikeJ]

Why should I trust an administration to set up more laws and additional taxes? They will not even hold themselves accountable for fast & furious and Benghazi? Same group that ramrodded Obama care down our throats; with the comment: Not sure whats in the Bill; we will find out after we vote it in.

I'm sick and tired of Washington not focusing on the real issues at hand, issues that affect thousands of Americans in the here an now.. The chances of me or you being affected by this financial mess far out weight the chances of us being shot or being in a shot out anytime soon. Hell, my odds of getting hit by a drunk driver are higher than a mass shooting. I can prepare to take care of myself against additional violence. I have little to no control over the huge crap of mess that our current government is about to heap our way...

This post has been edited by MikeJ: 27 December 2012 - 06:59 PM

[Glassdogs]

CitizenCain, on 27 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

The 18th amendment Establishes the prohibition of alcohol .

And we all know how well that worked out.

[CitizenCain]

Glassdogs, on 27 December 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

And we all know how well that worked out.

Yep it was revoked so don't get too cocky about the 2nd amendment.

[cptlo306]

CitizenCain, on 27 December 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Yep it was revoked so don't get too cocky about the 2nd amendment.

There will never be an amendment added to abolish the 2nd amendment.

[CitizenCain]

cptlo306, on 27 December 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

There will never be an amendment added to abolish the 2nd amendment.

Then the NRA had better change their Our Way or The Highway attitude, people are getting pretty fed up with the status quo .

[cptlo306]

CitizenCain, on 27 December 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Then the NRA had better change their Our Way or The Highway attitude, people are getting pretty fed up with the status quo .

Really? I hate to say it but in a few weeks the latest mass shooting will no longer be in the news and most people will have moved on to American Idol.

[CitizenCain]

cptlo306, on 27 December 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Really? I hate to say it but in a few weeks the latest mass shooting will no longer be in the news and most people will have moved on to American Idol.

You have a point there.

This post has been edited by CitizenCain: 27 December 2012 - 07:29 PM

[stradial]

cptlo306, on 27 December 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Really? I hate to say it but in a few weeks the latest mass shooting will no longer be in the news and most people will have moved on to American Idol.

Sad but probably true.

[PUBBY]

I take it everyone here are against convicted felons being able to obtain guns.

Yet some claim up to 40 percent of guns are sold person to person including sales at some gun shows where 'hobbyists' who don't have a FFL buy and sell without interference.

We also know that places like Georgia and Mississippi are notorious as sources of guns for northern cities as the so-called strawmen purchase firearms here and travel to NY or Chicago to sell their merchandise.

It is difficult to even identify these individuals who are breaking the laws in these cities because the laws don't allow for keeping background checks longer than 48 hours. The laws regarding registration are full of loopholes.

Supporting the intent of the laws that have already been passed - everyone is all for restricting the rights of the criminals who are served by these loopholes. What is needed is a more vigorous enforcement effort.

The other question, which relates to high capacity magazines, Nitro, a certified firearms instructor, says is really not a problem for trained and skilled shooters who can replace an empty magazine with a full one in roughly one second.

Or is what is going on a pure stonewall where the only compromise is to agree with you guys ... even if it means you believe your constitutional right under the second amendment means that you should be able to own a nuclear bomb? ... or that you're against criminals having guns as long as the government limits their ability to prevent it to arresting them after the fact.

pubby

[TabbyCat]

PUBBY, on 27 December 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

I take it everyone here are against convicted felons being able to obtain guns.

Yet some claim up to 40 percent of guns are sold person to person including sales at some gun shows where 'hobbyists' who don't have a FFL buy and sell without interference.

We also know that places like Georgia and Mississippi are notorious as sources of guns for northern cities as the so-called strawmen purchase firearms here and travel to NY or Chicago to sell their merchandise.

It is difficult to even identify these individuals who are breaking the laws in these cities because the laws don't allow for keeping background checks longer than 48 hours. The laws regarding registration are full of loopholes.

Supporting the intent of the laws that have already been passed - everyone is all for restricting the rights of the criminals who are served by these loopholes. What is needed is a more vigorous enforcement effort.

The other question, which relates to high capacity magazines, Nitro, a certified firearms instructor, says is really not a problem for trained and skilled shooters who can replace an empty magazine with a full one in roughly one second.

Or is what is going on a pure stonewall where the only compromise is to agree with you guys ... even if it means you believe your constitutional right under the second amendment means that you should be able to own a nuclear bomb? ... or that you're against criminals having guns as long as the government limits their ability to prevent it to arresting them after the fact.

pubby

Clearly, you've missed the point entirely and instead revert to projecting what YOU believe others believe onto them (disparagingly, I might add) instead of engaging in any meaningful discourse.

Oh,wait. I forgot where I was for a second there.

[gog8tors]

In the interview, Mr. Cuomo did not offer specifics about the measures he might propose, but, while discussing assault weapons, he said: “Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option. Permitting could be an option — keep your gun but permit it.”

http://www.therights...d-be-an-option/
http://www.syracuse....cuomo_guns.html

[orrby]

http://www.feinstein...assault-weapons
Following is a summary of the 2013 legislation:

Bans the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of:
120 specifically-named firearms;
Certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and have one or more military characteristics; and
Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.

Strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by:
Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test;
Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test; and
Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bullet buttons” to address attempts to “work around” prior bans.
Bans large-capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.

Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:
Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment;
Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes; and
Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons.

Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:

Background check of owner and any transferee;
Type and serial number of the firearm;
Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;
Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and
Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration.

[barrycdog]

This is probably not news Sen. Vincent Fort is one of the senators to push an assault weapons ban. Definitely keep an eye on what he is up to in the coming year.

[PUBBY]

orrby, on 28 December 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

http://www.feinstein...assault-weapons
Following is a summary of the 2013 legislation:

Bans the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of:
120 specifically-named firearms;
Certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and have one or more military characteristics; and
Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.

Strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by:
Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test;
Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test; and
Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bullet buttons” to address attempts to “work around” prior bans.
Bans large-capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.

Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:
Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment;
Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes; and
Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons.

Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:

Background check of owner and any transferee;
Type and serial number of the firearm;
Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;
Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and
Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration.

And what fool would expect that the GOP controlled house would pass all those restrictions.

You take some noted liberal playing to their base and raise it as a flag.

You and I both know that under current rules that measure by Sen. Fienstein would never get 60 votes required for cloture. It is a dead letter.

pubby

[barrycdog]

PUBBY, on 28 December 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

And what fool would expect that the GOP controlled house would pass all those restrictions.

You take some noted liberal playing to their base and raise it as a flag.

You and I both know that under current rules that measure by Sen. Fienstein would never get 60 votes required for cloture. It is a dead letter.

pubby

We didn't expect Obama would get reelected either. Liberals always raise a red flag. When it comes to the 2nd Amendment would you put your faith in the GOP to protect it?

[PUBBY]

Yes. The gop did a good jpb protecting the tobacco lobby and the nra has them deep on their pocket.

[gonefromhere]

PUBBY, on 28 December 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Yes. The gop did a good jpb protecting the tobacco lobby and the nra has them deep on their pocket.

Your keyboard ain't working right or you been up drinking all night.... Happy New Year Pubby !!!!

[~Chester~]

PUBBY, on 27 December 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

I take it everyone here are against convicted felons being able to obtain guns.

It is already against the law for convicted felons to posses a firearm and we have seen how well that works out.

Increased gun laws will only hinder the law abiding citizens. Convicted felons will still figure out a way around them.

[CitizenCain]

~Chester~, on 28 December 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

It is already against the law for convicted felons to posses a firearm and we have seen how well that works out.

Increased gun laws will only hinder the law abiding citizens. Convicted felons will still figure out a way around them.

And how about those speed limit signs they aren't stopping people from speeding so lets get rid of them too !

[gonefromhere]

CitizenCain, on 28 December 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

And how about those speed limit signs they aren't stopping people from speeding so lets get rid of them too !

They did that in a few places around Dallas-Fort Worth area quite a few years ago, a councilman said it was a waste of tax payer money to maintain the signs because just about everyone didn't pay attention to the speed limit. It actually slowed people down because they weren't sure what the speed limit actually was, and were afraid they might get a ticket.

[GO*BAMA]

NC-17, on 27 December 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

SYLO!!!!

I'm not quite sure what purpose a national registry would serve. my tire iron, lug nuts, pocket knife, and waist chains aren't registered. the government feels no need to have a record of my kitchen utensils...why do they need to know about my guns?

[crossroads]

PUBBY, on 27 December 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

I take it everyone here are against convicted felons being able to obtain guns.

Yet some claim up to 40 percent of guns are sold person to person including sales at some gun shows where 'hobbyists' who don't have a FFL buy and sell without interference.

We also know that places like Georgia and Mississippi are notorious as sources of guns for northern cities as the so-called strawmen purchase firearms here and travel to NY or Chicago to sell their merchandise.

It is difficult to even identify these individuals who are breaking the laws in these cities because the laws don't allow for keeping background checks longer than 48 hours. The laws regarding registration are full of loopholes.

Supporting the intent of the laws that have already been passed - everyone is all for restricting the rights of the criminals who are served by these loopholes. What is needed is a more vigorous enforcement effort.

The other question, which relates to high capacity magazines, Nitro, a certified firearms instructor, says is really not a problem for trained and skilled shooters who can replace an empty magazine with a full one in roughly one second.

Or is what is going on a pure stonewall where the only compromise is to agree with you guys ... even if it means you believe your constitutional right under the second amendment means that you should be able to own a nuclear bomb? ... or that you're against criminals having guns as long as the government limits their ability to prevent it to arresting them after the fact.

pubby

This quote stands up still today. Our founders had the foresight to know there may be trouble down the line. And tyranny is knocking at our door with the thought of banning currently legal firearms. You said it right, enforcement effort needs to be top of the agenda. The department of ATF has to do their job keeping guns from felons, so let THEM do THEIR jobs instead of breathing down the necks of legal gun owners.

Do you think our government would use nuclear weapons on it's citizens? I don't think so, even if there was a second revolution. I don't think anything like that will ever happen. I do think we have the right to own whatever it takes to keep America free, even if it's from our own government.
Is there anyone here old enough to remember Ruby Ridge? The government was wrong then but it happened. I would hate to see thousands of Ruby Ridges happening today.

[CitizenCain]

crossroads, on 28 December 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

George Washington quote on guns.jpg

This quote stands up still today. Our founders had the foresight to know there may be trouble down the line. And tyranny is knocking at our door with the thought of banning currently legal firearms. You said it right, enforcement effort needs to be top of the agenda. The department of ATF has to do their job keeping guns from felons, so let THEM do THEIR jobs instead of breathing down the necks of legal gun owners.

Do you think our government would use nuclear weapons on it's citizens? I don't think so, even if there was a second revolution. I don't think anything like that will ever happen. I do think we have the right to own whatever it takes to keep America free, even if it's from our own government.
Is there anyone here old enough to remember Ruby Ridge? The government was wrong then but it happened. I would hate to see thousands of Ruby Ridges happening today.

Welcome to the Homeland Security watch list.

[crossroads]

CitizenCain, on 28 December 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

Welcome to the Homeland Security watch list.

My point exactly. If you knew my last name you would know I probably am already on the no fly list. I have an unusual name and have been asked about it many times. I had to stop facebooking for a while because every of it. Too many Abdula's and Mohammads and Arabs wanted to be my friend.

[eym_sirius]

~Chester~, on 28 December 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

It is already against the law for convicted felons to posses a firearm and we have seen how well that works out.

Increased gun laws will only hinder the law abiding citizens. Convicted felons will still figure out a way around them.

Actually, NOT allowing convicted felons to possess guns works well, generally. Not allowing future purchases of "Bushmaster" assault-styled rifles doesn't "hinder law abiding citizens". Requiring registration of all assault-styled weapons already in circulation doesn't hurt anyone. Keeping magazine capacity at fewer than 30 doesn't impair the ability of a homeowner to protect himself and his family. Nobody hunts with these weapons so if you don't need them for hunting or home safety -- then what???

The safety of the public comes WAY before the desire of an insecure middle-aged white guy feeling the need to master bush with his compensating-weapon or before the need of the growing number of paranoids out there who, in preparing for doomsday, are making our world a more dangerous place.

[GO*BAMA]

eym_sirius, on 28 December 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Actually, NOT allowing convicted felons to possess guns works well, generally. Not allowing future purchases of "Bushmaster" assault-styled rifles doesn't "hinder law abiding citizens". Requiring registration of all assault-styled weapons already in circulation doesn't hurt anyone. Keeping magazine capacity at fewer than 30 doesn't impair the ability of a homeowner to protect himself and his family. Nobody hunts with these weapons so if you don't need them for hunting or home safety -- then what??? The safety of the public comes WAY before the desire of an insecure middle-aged white guy feeling the need to master bush with his compensating-weapon or before the need of the growing number of paranoids out there who, in preparing for doomsday, are making our world a more dangerous place.

That's not the point! The point is the goverment has "amended infringed upon to many of our rights already! The 2nd Amendment was one of the best written and very clearly stated. People need to stop focusing on the gun and focus on the person, it has been repeated several times - GUNS DON"T KILL PEOPLE"!