[Pigpen]

At the Republican Women's Forum on June 5, 2012, Sen. Heath announced that "if given the chance" he would end the Hope Scholarship and Bright From the Start for Pre-kindergarten children, along with scholarships for people to technical schools like chattahoochee Tech. What do you think about his plan?

[Lucky64]

He's an idiot. That's what I think!!!

[WHITEY]

He is a self serving hypocrite and needs to be defeated this election.

[Beach Bum]

Heath is a disgrace and should not be allowed to continue to "pretend to" represent the people of our community.

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

Wouldn't that take legislative action and not just what ONE legislator proposes?

[Proud Independent]

Pigpen, on 03 July 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

At the Republican Women's Forum on June 5, 2012, Sen. Heath announced that "if given the chance" he would end the Hope Scholarship and Bright From the Start for Pre-kindergarten children, along with scholarships for people to technical schools like chattahoochee Tech. What do you think about his plan?

What an assanine suggestion. The HOPE Scholarship is a blessing to students and parents across Georgia and is making a real difference. It needs some revamping to make it available for all qualified students. One idea is to fund 100% of the tuition for those students working towards degrees in employable majors and needed by Georgia businesses such as engineering, biology, computer science, robotics, nursing, etc. For those less employable majors such as ancient studies and art history the program should only fund 50% of the tuition costs. This would encourage students to pursue employable career paths and benefit Georgia businesses. To advocate for the killing of the program tells me some of our elected officials are completely out of touch with the needs of families in Georgia.

This post has been edited by Proud Independent: 03 July 2012 - 08:56 PM

[rockysmom]

Pigpen, on 03 July 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

At the Republican Women's Forum on June 5, 2012, Sen. Heath announced that "if given the chance" he would end the Hope Scholarship and Bright From the Start for Pre-kindergarten children, along with scholarships for people to technical schools like chattahoochee Tech. What do you think about his plan?

I wonder, can you back this up with some kind of something other than a statement about the Republican Women's Forum? Reason I ask is because this is rather inflammatory.

Btw, I don't support Heath at all. I just would like some kind of substantiation so people don't question your claim.

[Beach Bum]

Proud Independent, on 03 July 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

What an assanine suggestion. The HOPE Scholarship is a blessing to students and parents across Georgia and is making a real difference. It needs some revamping to make it available for all qualified students. One idea is to fund 100% of the tuition for those students working towards degrees in employable majors and needed by Georgia businesses such as engineering, biology, computer science, robotics, nursing, etc. For those less employable majors such as ancient studies and art history the program should only fund 50% of the tuition costs. This would encourage students to pursue employable career paths and benefit Georgia businesses. To advocate for the killing of the program tells me some of our elected officials are completely out of touch with the needs of families in Georgia.

Actually it is not an "assanine suggestion" at all. Please do some investigation and you will discover that Heath made several statements during the Chamber of Commerce debate that were negative toward the HOPE scholarship and insinuated that the HOPE scholarship was taking money from the "poor kids" and giving it to the "rich kids". How absurd is that?

Want to talk about an assanine statement? Please go back and listen to the debate and you will understand exactly what I am talking about.

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

Would it be tacky to point out that "Bright From The Start" is not necessarily JUST Pre-k? It is a program that deals with day care as well.

This is from their website:

Bright from the Start administers the nationally recognized Georgia’s Pre-K Program, licenses child care centers and home-based child care, administers federal nutrition programs, and manages voluntary quality enhancement programs.

[lowrider]

So when is someone going to start doing some negative campaigning against Bill Heath?

Seriously?

Politics is nasty, that's the nature of the game and the last one standing wins.

[Proud Independent]

Beach Bum, on 03 July 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

Actually it is not an "assanine suggestion" at all. Please do some investigation and you will discover that Heath made several statements during the Chamber of Commerce debate that were negative toward the HOPE scholarship and insinuated that the HOPE scholarship was taking money from the "poor kids" and giving it to the "rich kids". How absurd is that?

Want to talk about an assanine statement? Please go back and listen to the debate and you will understand exactly what I am talking about.

Reread my post. I said that killing the HOPE Scholarship is an assanine suggestion.

[mrnn]

Killing the Hope would be a terrible mistake. With that said, and coming from a guy who's about as anti-Heath as you can get, the statement he made about poor people buying the educations of wealthier people is rather accurate. Poor folks play the lottery much more regularly than the more affluent. Personally, I see no wrong with that as playing the lottery is a completely voluntary act. His theory is in the right place; his conclusion isn't.


mrnn

[Proud Independent]

mrnn, on 03 July 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Killing the Hope would be a terrible mistake. With that said, and coming from a guy who's about as anti-Heath as you can get, the statement he made about poor people buying the educations of wealthier people is rather accurate. Poor folks play the lottery much more regularly than the more affluent. Personally, I see no wrong with that as playing the lottery is a completely voluntary act. His theory is in the right place; his conclusion isn't.


mrnn

You have a point but if a poor kid's parents are spending the few extra dollars they have on the lottery than they sure as heck aren't going to have money to pay for their kid to go to college. With that said, some poor people spend money on all sorts of things they shouldn't such as beer, liquor, smokes, etc. One vice doesn't prevent others. At least with HOPE a child from a poor family can have a scholarship waiting for him if he does well in school.

[LPPT]

mrnn, on 03 July 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Killing the Hope would be a terrible mistake. With that said, and coming from a guy who's about as anti-Heath as you can get, the statement he made about poor people buying the educations of wealthier people is rather accurate. Poor folks play the lottery much more regularly than the more affluent. Personally, I see no wrong with that as playing the lottery is a completely voluntary act. His theory is in the right place; his conclusion isn't.


mrnn

Mrnn it resonated with me also, I understood his point. If you take the lottery and benefits away tomorrow these parents will still place their vices above the kids.
Every kid that takes advantage and rises above it is worth everything sacrificed by those that know better.
Educating our society has made America great. Our example has made other nations great when they imitate it, people come from all over the world to educate themselves in the greatest universities on the planet. They take the knowledge back to their own countries and improve the quality of life for their people. We can't do any less here.

We no longer accept in this country that class is something one is born with,no birthrights in America you have an opportunity to earn your way. Some people have issue with an educated society, they don't have an advantage that allows them to manipulate a majority. Some long for the good old days when you could manipulate the ignorant and forget them until the next election.

[Prince4ever]

I think the truth of the matter is that he is against the lottery not the Hope Scolarship program. Not sure just what I heard.

[Pigpen]

rockysmom, on 03 July 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

I wonder, can you back this up with some kind of something other than a statement about the Republican Women's Forum? Reason I ask is because this is rather inflammatory.

Btw, I don't support Heath at all. I just would like some kind of substantiation so people don't question your claim.

Rockysmom:

Sen. Heath unambiguously made the statements at the Paulding Chamber of Commerce on June 5, 2012, during the Republicqn candidate forum hosted by the Paulding Republican Women. During the debate, Mr. Heath stated that the State has created a system to fund education in Georgia by taking money from "poor people" for the "education of rich kids." He went on state that "if given the chance" he would vote against the funding of the Hope Scholarship. The District 31 debate can be seen on you tube or you can search p.com for the debate and go to around the one hour and ten minute part of the debate.

Since around 30% of the kids who receive the Hope could not have attended school without it, his statement about only benefitting "rich kids"" is ignorant and/or deceptive. It also ignores the fact that around 25% of the money from Hope goes to people attending technical school, and that much of the benefit is for pre-kindergarten programs. These stats are available on-line.

Given the fact that the Hope has benefitted over 1,500,000 Georgians with billions of dollars in education assistance without the implementation of a tax, I think that the program is beneficial and should be retained. As the Republican floor leader in the State Senate, Mr. Heath has shown a disdain for the program. Given his comments, I am concerned that the program will not be around when my kids graduate from high school.

[mojo413]

While not a Carruth fan I was totally turned off with Heath's mud slinging mailer concerning Carruth.

I will not be voting for Heath.

To amend my friends Blue Dog Kentucky Democrat's father old saying...

"If the Democrats were running a dog against Heath... I would have to vote for the dog".

This post has been edited by mojo413: 04 July 2012 - 10:15 AM

[zoocrew]

Legalized gambling does impact the poor and elderly more than the middle class or wealthy. Heath has a point there.

[GeorgiaTornado]

I think Heath is as dumb as a box of rocks... So are the people who have the "Re-Elect Heath" signs on their property. just sayin

[Lady Raider]

*uggh* how appropriate i just seen topic titled *Another Rat Thread* right under this topic..

[feelip]

My dad once said that the lottery is the only way some folks will ever pay any taxes. Let them put your kids through college, you put their kids through grades 1 thru 12.

[mojo413]

zoocrew, on 04 July 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

Legalized gambling does impact the poor and elderly more than the middle class or wealthy. Heath has a point there.

I've read many reports and studies on the subject of how the Lottery impacts the poor.
I've known (know now) poor people who have bought Lottery tickets rather than put food on the table for the kids.
When the Mega Millions game gets up to $1 million I buy a ticket.
I'm forecasting if the Lottery / Legalized gambling were stopped here, the same folks who need that extra money the most would just drive over to SC to feed their addiction. If every state were to close down their Lotteries there will always be Poker, Dice, Ball Tip Boards, Bookies and many other illegal sources where they can feed their additions.
In my opinion Government is not the source or solution to their problems.

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

AMEN!

mojo413, on 05 July 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

In my opinion Government is not the source or solution to their problems.

[zoocrew]

mojo413, on 05 July 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

I've read many reports and studies on the subject of how the Lottery impacts the poor.
I've known (know now) poor people who have bought Lottery tickets rather than put food on the table for the kids.
When the Mega Millions game gets up to $1 million I buy a ticket.
I'm forecasting if the Lottery / Legalized gambling were stopped here, the same folks who need that extra money the most would just drive over to SC to feed their addiction. If every state were to close down their Lotteries there will always be Poker, Dice, Ball Tip Boards, Bookies and many other illegal sources where they can feed their additions.
In my opinion Government is not the source or solution to their problems.

But government does have an obligation to protect the public at large for the good of society in total, e.g., cigarette warning labels and sin taxes.

You're missing the whole point about the studies, since the studies also show the societal cost. It is that cost that must be weighed when making the determinations to allow gambling in a state or not. This is more than just lotteries but casinos.

I'm not arguing against the lottery, just the ideology that government has no place in this.

<embed src="http://www.npr.org/v2/?i=156192405&m=156192398&t=audio" height="386" wmode="opaque" allowfullscreen="true" width="400" base="http://www.npr.org" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"></embed>

My link

[momof 3]

GeorgiaTornado, on 04 July 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

I think Heath is as dumb as a box of rocks... So are the people who have the "Re-Elect Heath" signs on their property. just sayin

I saw at least 2 of these signs in the Peachtree Road Race yesterday.......I just scratched my head and it made me question those running down the road with them.

[momof 3]

mojo413, on 05 July 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

I've read many reports and studies on the subject of how the Lottery impacts the poor.
I've known (know now) poor people who have bought Lottery tickets rather than put food on the table for the kids.
When the Mega Millions game gets up to $1 million I buy a ticket.
I'm forecasting if the Lottery / Legalized gambling were stopped here, the same folks who need that extra money the most would just drive over to SC to feed their addiction. If every state were to close down their Lotteries there will always be Poker, Dice, Ball Tip Boards, Bookies and many other illegal sources where they can feed their additions.
In my opinion Government is not the source or solution to their problems.

And that is the total and complete fault of the 'poor' person buying the tickets. It is THEIR choice to take food out of their kids mouths, not the states. And if they weren't spending it on lottery tickets, I'll bet they still wouldn't be spending it on food either.

I think that since the lottery has been around, we have bought less than 25 tickets, the odds are just too huge to spend hundreds of dollars on tickets, when buying one will give you practically the same odds. But if I didn't have milk for my child, you can bet that the lottery ticket would still be on the roll and there would be milk in my fridge.

[AustinPlantation]

Lowrider, I've been receiving several negative out-of-state phone calls attacking Heath and none from Heath. Haven't you?

I thought some folks were talking about income limits for the Hope Scholarship, but eliminating it completely is crazy.

I hate the negative calls --- say something about what you are going to do, which I still don't know.

It's going to be a tough choice, but if that's his position, I guess the choice is easier.

lowrider, on 03 July 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

So when is someone going to start doing some negative campaigning against Bill Heath?

Seriously?

Politics is nasty, that's the nature of the game and the last one standing wins.

[lowrider]

AustinPlantation, on 05 July 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

Lowrider, I've been receiving several negative out-of-state phone calls attacking Heath and none from Heath. Haven't you?

I thought some folks were talking about income limits for the Hope Scholarship, but eliminating it completely is crazy.

I hate the negative calls --- say something about what you are going to do, which I still don't know.

It's going to be a tough choice, but if that's his position, I guess the choice is easier.

I don't get any robo calls. My landline is hooked up to my fax and so far, none on my cell.

Negative campaigning has to be met with negative campaigning in my opinion.

But I also know where Heath stands on the issues and it's not where I stand. I think he's crazy.

Not sure yet who I will vote for, but I do know who I'm NOT voting for and it WON'T be a vote for Heath or Braddock.

[LPPT]

This was my issue when I looked into the lottery.
The lottery is not run by the state, it is run by a company that the state contracts with.
These people are the real winners of the lottery when it comes to the pay off.
They make huge salaries and bonuses, much of the funding from the lottery goes into marketing, you have the billboards, and marketing material in the stores.

I looked into how it worked when we first started hearing about the cutbacks.

What I found out was we had made a pack with the devil, the companies money comes off the top first, so no matter how short the lottery comes up in funding there will never be so much as a single 1% more going into the education fund.

Young people do earn the money by being required to maintain good grades to receive it. It benefits Georgia by producing an educated work force and influences companies looking to relocate.

The pre-k often comes right back into the state coffers by allowing families to be 2 income earners and have a taxable income,and in general be able to contribute to the economy rather than be a drain.

I never play the lottery so it has benefited my children and not been a drain on my personal income. Do I believe that it introduces the joy of gambling to many that otherwise wouldn't seek some backroom card game to fill a need, yeah I believe that.

A friend of mine had a saying about vices being the only joys of a poor man's life.

[Pigpen]

Prince4ever, on 03 July 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

I think the truth of the matter is that he is against the lottery not the Hope Scolarship program. Not sure just what I heard.

Prince4ever:

The two are inextricably linked. Without the lottery, there is no HOPE Scholarship. Sen. Heath called the Hope Scholarship morally "wrong" at the forum on June 5th, apparently because it is funded by the lottery, and proudly stated that "if given the chance" he would vote against it. As the Senate Floor Leader, Sen. Heath certainly will have the chance.

If it is morally "wrong" and, according to Mr. Heath, is a program where poor people are just paying for the education of rich kids, why would Mr. Heath issue the following statements in legislative newsletters?

"This vital program is one of the greatest things Georgia has done to advance higher education and our economy..."
"Students from across Georgia, our nation and our globe have benefited from HOPE."
"This program is a vital asset to the state and has been emulated by other states across the country... We must see that HOPE has a long lifetime in Georgia."
He went on to say that the HOPE is "the gem of our higher education system".

What a hypocrite.

[Wineguy]

I look at it this way. My wife is a Pre-K teacher in a lottery funded program and her students are not all Upper Class or even all middle class children. They come from all walks of life. The advantages they are being given versus when I was 4 years old is amazing. These children have so many learning resources and know so much more than I did at that age, and I went to a learning academy as a child. My wife and I both were also recipients of the HOPE Scholarship and are both much more able to give back to the economy than if we had not gotten the jobs that the degrees HOPE afforded us. I know for a fact I would have been lucky to get a two year degree if I had to pay on my own dime instead of receiving help to go to Kennesaw State through the HOPE program.

If ever the state goes ignorant and takes away these programs, either of them. We will be setting our children back tremendously. And our economy would just as quickly suffer.

[WHITEY]

Pigpen, on 06 July 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

Prince4ever:

The two are inextricably linked. Without the lottery, there is no HOPE Scholarship. Sen. Heath called the Hope Scholarship morally "wrong" at the forum on June 5th, apparently because it is funded by the lottery, and proudly stated that "if given the chance" he would vote against it. As the Senate Floor Leader, Sen. Heath certainly will have the chance.

If it is morally "wrong" and, according to Mr. Heath, is a program where poor people are just paying for the education of rich kids, why would Mr. Heath issue the following statements in legislative newsletters?

"This vital program is one of the greatest things Georgia has done to advance higher education and our economy..."
"Students from across Georgia, our nation and our globe have benefited from HOPE."
"This program is a vital asset to the state and has been emulated by other states across the country... We must see that HOPE has a long lifetime in Georgia."
He went on to say that the HOPE is "the gem of our higher education system".

What a hypocrite.

This I agree on he is certaintly a hypocrite.
I was really amused at his reasoning for Taxing Direct TV during the 2011 legislative session a review of his campaign contibutions disclose a sizeable contribution from Com cast which is already taxed by the State and he wanted all tele communications to have a level playing field and pay state sales tax.
Wow if it moves tax it, Anyone remember his proposal on taxing services such as haircuts,Auro repair, lawn cutting services,ETC,
What a jerk tax the citizens, But let his big campaign contributors have a free ride. And yes Paulette Braddock was right there by his side hollering ME TOO, You da man Bill

[surepip]

Pigpen, on 06 July 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

Prince4ever:

The two are inextricably linked. Without the lottery, there is no HOPE Scholarship. Sen. Heath called the Hope Scholarship morally "wrong" at the forum on June 5th, apparently because it is funded by the lottery, and proudly stated that "if given the chance" he would vote against it. As the Senate Floor Leader, Sen. Heath certainly will have the chance.

If it is morally "wrong" and, according to Mr. Heath, is a program where poor people are just paying for the education of rich kids, why would Mr. Heath issue the following statements in legislative newsletters?

"This vital program is one of the greatest things Georgia has done to advance higher education and our economy..."
"Students from across Georgia, our nation and our globe have benefited from HOPE."
"This program is a vital asset to the state and has been emulated by other states across the country... We must see that HOPE has a long lifetime in Georgia."
He went on to say that the HOPE is "the gem of our higher education system".

What a hypocrite.

I don't know how many of you remember back to the "Pre" lottery / HOPE days. The lottery industry, under the table and totally illegal, was alive and well in most if not all of the more poor areas of the state. It was unregulated and often rigged, and 100% or the profits went to those running it.

The argument for the Lottery and HOPE was to legalize what was happening anyway, tax the hell out of it, and use the NET proceeds to fund HOPE and PreK.

And it has worked wonderfully.

The biggest difference is those playing the lottery, rich or poor, at least get a fair roll of the dice when picking their numbers or scratch offs or whatever. Before they were really just donating the money to those running the illegal numbers rackets.

Oh, and for what it is worth, I personnally have NEVER purchased any sort of anything involved with the lottery.

Heath is one of those who thinks he can legislate morality. It ain't a gonna happen.

[PUBBY]

surepip, on 06 July 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

I don't know how many of you remember back to the "Pre" lottery / HOPE days. The lottery industry, under the table and totally illegal, was alive and well in most if not all of the more poor areas of the state. It was unregulated and often rigged, and 100% or the profits went to those running it.

The argument for the Lottery and HOPE was to legalize what was happening anyway, tax the hell out of it, and use the NET proceeds to fund HOPE and PreK.

And it has worked wonderfully.

The biggest difference is those playing the lottery, rich or poor, at least get a fair roll of the dice when picking their numbers or scratch offs or whatever. Before they were really just donating the money to those running the illegal numbers rackets.

Oh, and for what it is worth, I personnally have NEVER purchased any sort of anything involved with the lottery.

Heath is one of those who thinks he can legislate morality. It ain't a gonna happen.

Funny, his position in regard to limiting gifts to legislators is you can't legislate morality and there should be no laws, pledges or anything to disallow a legislator from getting freebees of any amount from lobbyists. Given the pledge he has rejected would disallow gifts that would amount to more than $100 a day, suggests he likes his gifts larger.

pubby

[surepip]

PUBBY, on 06 July 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

Funny, his position in regard to limiting gifts to legislators is you can't legislate morality and there should be no laws, pledges or anything to disallow a legislator from getting freebees of any amount from lobbyists. Given the pledge he has rejected would disallow gifts that would amount to more than $100 a day, suggests he likes his gifts larger.

pubby

And for whatever it is worth, Melissa signed the pledge when she qualified to run.

Several others then signed it after the fact, but I believe she was the first from Paulding.

[Animal]

Well maybe Bill should tax sex,the more you get screwed the more you pay.

[surepip]

Animal, on 06 July 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

Well maybe Bill should tax sex,the more you get screwed the more you pay.

Animal,
Don't give him any suggestions like that. He will probably do it. We all know for the fringe element, sex is only for procreation, ..... it is not to be enjoyed, only for making children.

[rednekkhikkchikk]

Quote

To advocate for the killing of the program tells me some of our elected officials are completely out of touch with the needs of families in Georgia.

LMAO @ some

[Barbed wire]

So........is he going to do away with HOPE? or with the Lottery? If just HOPE, what does Heath plan to do with Lottery funds?

I need to add, I have never really understood the push to make HOPE only available to the poor. The "poor" (including those who make tons of cash under the table or those who are already living off the govt --sorry, I am jaded with what I see daily) have the PELL federal grant. And the Pell is not granted at all based on GPA. Any one who meets the financial criteria can get the Pell. The HOPE is a huge benefit to the "not poor enough or just too damned honest" crowd who are working hard and just getting by. Paying for college would be a hardship and most likely require loans that would take years to pay.

It is a great benefit to the middle class and the lower middle class--those who most likely would not go to college at all because of not wanting to be a financial hardship.

[NewsJunky]

Barbed wire, on 11 July 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

So........is he going to do away with HOPE? or with the Lottery? If just HOPE, what does Heath plan to do with Lottery funds?

I need to add, I have never really understood the push to make HOPE only available to the poor. The "poor" (including those who make tons of cash under the table or those who are already living off the govt --sorry, I am jaded with what I see daily) have the PELL federal grant. And the Pell is not granted at all based on GPA. Any one who meets the financial criteria can get the Pell. The HOPE is a huge benefit to the "not poor enough or just too damned honest" crowd who are working hard and just getting by. Paying for college would be a hardship and most likely require loans that would take years to pay.

It is a great benefit to the middle class and the lower middle class--those who most likely would not go to college at all because of not wanting to be a financial hardship.

The hope is supported by the Lottery. Senator Heath had to vote on the issue. He does not approve of the lottery or gambling for religious reasons. Just trying to explain how it all ties together.