[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

The Mrs. has a heat press up in our family room for her business and we have to turn everything off in the room in order not to trip the breaker. I know nothing about electricity and stay FAR from it. The breaker that keeps tripping is a 15, but I noticed the A/C, Water Heater, Etc is on a 30 breaker. I am trying to find out if the breaker could be upgraded for the area and eliminate the problem. I also would like to know how much they think that type of change would cost (approximate). If it helps to know the house is about six years old, so it's not an old wiring issue. Anyone?

[i_have3dogs]

My link

[Riptides]

No. Do NOT upgrade the breaker its there to prevent the wiring from overheating in the wall and burning your home down.

You need an electrician to determine the wiring size before anything can be dine. More than likely you'll need a wiring upgrade to support the amperage the device needs.

This post has been edited by Riptides: 12 June 2012 - 08:36 PM

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

i_have3dogs, on 12 June 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

My link

Did you miss the part where I asked for a recommendation and not a how to?

Riptides, on 12 June 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

No. Do NOT upgrade the breaker its there to prevent the wiring from overheating in the wall and burning your home down.

Well damn.....
Thanks for the help, I don't want a burned up house!

[converse]

Sure you could simply change out the breaker. The heat press won’t be the only thing getting hot though...

The breaker is sized for the wire. You need to upgrade the wire and the breaker at the same time. Would probably be easier and cheaper to run a single outlet on its own breaker if the panel has room. If the panel is full then you're in bit of a pickle. It isn't anything money can't fix though!

[rockysmom]

All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah, on 12 June 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

The Mrs. has a heat press up in our family room for her business and we have to turn everything off in the room in order not to trip the breaker. I know nothing about electricity and stay FAR from it. The breaker that keeps tripping is a 15, but I noticed the A/C, Water Heater, Etc is on a 30 breaker. I am trying to find out if the breaker could be upgraded for the area and eliminate the problem. I also would like to know how much they think that type of change would cost (approximate). If it helps to know the house is about six years old, so it's not an old wiring issue. Anyone?

I hate it but call Mr Sparky....they are pros. Expensive, but they know what they are doing.

I'd love to find a local electrician that I could trust. Till then, it's Mr. Sparky cause an electrical fire scares me really bad.

Good luck.

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

Riptides, on 12 June 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

No. Do NOT upgrade the breaker its there to prevent the wiring from overheating in the wall and burning your home down.

You need an electrician to determine the wiring size before anything can be dine. More than likely you'll need a wiring upgrade to support the amperage the device needs.

Ok good, so there may be hope to resolving the issue..... I definitely don't intend on doing anything unless it is safe, that's why I want a licensed and insured electrictian to check it out.

[i_have3dogs]

All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah, on 12 June 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Did you miss the part where I asked for a recommendation and not a how to?

It takes 5 minutes to change the breaker, and about $20 instead of $100 for an electrician. Some people like paying a lot of money for something they can do themselves.

Riptides, on 12 June 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

No. Do NOT upgrade the breaker its there to prevent the wiring from overheating in the wall and burning your home down.

You need an electrician to determine the wiring size before anything can be dine. More than likely you'll need a wiring upgrade to support the amperage the device needs.

Check the wiring coming out from the panel, it will say what the max Amps is on it.

This post has been edited by i_have3dogs: 12 June 2012 - 08:40 PM

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

rockysmom, on 12 June 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

I hate it but call Mr Sparky....they are pros. Expensive, but they know what they are doing.

I'd love to find a local electrician that I could trust. Till then, it's Mr. Sparky cause an electrical fire scares me really bad.

Good luck.

Well I figure they are prolly cheaper than the deductible on my homeowners should the house burn down so I'll do what I have to do!
I'll give them a shout tomorrow.....

[LPPT]

I have some friends that have used these guys, they come highly recommended for service and price.

Electramedics

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

i_have3dogs, on 12 June 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

It takes 5 minutes to change the breaker, and about $20 instead of $100 for an electrician. Some people like paying a lot of money for something they can do themselves.



Check the wiring coming out from the panel, it will say what the max Amps is on it.

Seriously, thanks, but this is one are that I don't feel comfortable messing with.... I am sure I probably could figure it out but I don't want to lose sleep wondering if the house is going to burn that night.... I'd be even more than I already am....

LPPT, on 12 June 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

I have some friends that have used these guys, they come highly recommended for service and price.

Electramedics

Thanks, I will put them on the call list for tomorrow too....

[The General]

LPPT, on 12 June 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

I have some friends that have used these guys, they come highly recommended for service and price.

Electramedics

I have used these guys and they are very good at what they do. I would recommend them for you job.

[i_have3dogs]

All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah, on 12 June 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Seriously, thanks, but this is one are that I don't feel comfortable messing with.... I am sure I probably could figure it out but I don't want to lose sleep wondering if the house is going to burn that night.... I'd be even more than I already am....

I've switched some of mine, I checked the wire before I did. You don't even need to turn the power off to do it. But if you feel better having an electrician, then that's fine I guess. I just hate paying someone to do something that I can do on my own for so much less.

[rockysmom]

LPPT, on 12 June 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

I have some friends that have used these guys, they come highly recommended for service and price.

Electramedics

Thanks Laurie, they have been put on the list.

[converse]

i_have3dogs, on 12 June 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

It takes 5 minutes to change the breaker, and about $20 instead of $100 for an electrician. Some people like paying a lot of money for something they can do themselves.

Check the wiring coming out from the panel, it will say what the max Amps is on it.

Where did you learn this stuff?? You'd be a fool to swap a lower amperage breaker for a higher one without confirming the wire supported the increase (highly unlikely) or changing the wire first. All of the wire I have seen has the gauge printed on it, not the max amps.

You do know a wires amperage rating drops the longer it is, right?? Maybe you have some new Chinese stuff that magically senses how long it is and updates its max amperage label…

[rockysmom]

[quote name='i_have3dogs' timestamp='1339551612' post='3648184']
It takes 5 minutes to change the breaker, and about $20 instead of $100 for an electrician. Some people like paying a lot of money for something they can do themselves.


Dude, don't take that position. Just because you have a level of comfort does not mean the average Dick or Jane has it. It's electrical. I'd rather have a pro.

[Riptides]

Yeah the thing is a 15 amp breaker will handle more than 15 amps for a short amount of time, say up to 10 minutes, this is almost enough to compromise the wiring in the wall. They're made like this so things like a hair dryer or such don't trip the breaker the moment you turn the device on.

If you're having to turn everything off so she can use the heat thingie, then you are pretty much pushing the wiring into that compromising territory when the device is in use.

But the wiring gauge size determines the size the breaker needs to be, not the other way around. Also be sure if you get anything upgraded they upgrade the plug to a 20A plus plug, I don't know how many times I've seen 15A plug on a 20A circuit and the if the plugs are used a lot they can also fail and catch fire as well.

You can find the NEC codes online and lemme tell you, they're not just hoops an electrician has to jump through, they're written the way they are to keep you safe.

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

converse, on 12 June 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

Where did you learn this stuff?? You'd be a fool to swap a lower amperage breaker for a higher one without confirming the wire supported the increase (highly unlikely) or changing the wire first. All of the wire I have seen has the gauge printed on it, not the max amps.

You do know a wires amperage rating drops the longer it is, right?? Maybe you have some new Chinese stuff that magically senses how long it is and updates its max amperage label…

I know that wasn't addressed at me, but I wonder if that is the issue I am having. The other outlet it was on was right beside the garage (where the panel is and never tripped) but the new location is on the other diagonal corner of the house. (It's a 3000 sq ft two story). Do you think if that is the issue that a bigger breaker is the solution or just moving it back to the inconvenient spot is the best solution?

This post has been edited by All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah: 12 June 2012 - 09:00 PM

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

rockysmom, on 12 June 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

Thanks Laurie, they have been put on the list.

Hey, back off my electrictian info....

i_have3dogs, on 12 June 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

It takes 5 minutes to change the breaker, and about $20 instead of $100 for an electrician. Some people like paying a lot of money for something they can do themselves.


Dude, don't take that position. Just because you have a level of comfort does not mean the average Dick or Jane has it. It's electrical. I'd rather have a pro.

AND, don't call me bad names, NOT NICE!

[rockysmom]

All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah, on 12 June 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

Hey, back off my electrictian info....






AND, don't call me bad names, NOT NICE!

Does large swinging thing work?

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

rockysmom, on 12 June 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Does large swinging thing work?

Since you included large then yes...

[Riptides]

All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah, on 12 June 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

I know that wasn't addressed at me, but I wonder if that is the issue I am having. The other outlet it was on was right beside the garage (where the panel is and never tripped) but the new location is on the other diagonal corner of the house. (It's a 3000 sq ft two story). Do you think if that is the issue that a bigger breaker is the solution or just moving it back to the inconvenient spot is the best solution?

Take the straight distance between the breaker box and the problem plug, and triple it, and you'll be close to the wire run length. And IF I were a real electrician I'd be able to tell you the formula off the top of my head for amperage drop. But yeah the longer a run is the more prone it is to not being able to handle the amperage stress you're putting on it.

Right now I'd personally consider running the heat thingie on that plug to be a BAD THING based on the length and issues you're having. You're really pushing that circuit.

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

Riptides, on 12 June 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Take the straight distance between the breaker box and the problem plug, and triple it, and you'll be close to the wire run length. And IF I were a real electrician I'd be able to tell you the formula off the top of my head for amperage drop. But yeah the longer a run is the more prone it is to not being able to handle the amperage stress you're putting on it.

Right now I'd personally consider running the heat thingie on that plug to be a BAD THING based on the length and issues you're having. You're really pushing that circuit.

OK thanks, we will explore our options on this for relocating it and if no easy solution is available then we will ask the experts to come out and evaluate if leaving it there is possible. Thanks again.

[converse]

All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah, on 12 June 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

I know that wasn't addressed at me, but I wonder if that is the issue I am having. The other outlet it was on was right beside the garage (where the panel is and never tripped) but the new location is on the other diagonal corner of the house. (It's a 3000 sq ft two story). Do you think if that is the issue that a bigger breaker is the solution or just moving it back to the inconvenient spot is the best solution?

You do not want put a breaker bigger than the wire is rated for. Ever.

It will work. The issue is the wire is going to get hotter pushing more amperage than it is rated for. If there is any compromise in the wire, the portion is going to get even hotter. I breaker is supposed to trip if it "senses" an arc.

If you're comfortable gambling on the wire keeping up with the extra amperage and the breaker tripping before the wire can start a fire, I guess you can swap it out. That is if you can find an electrician to do it...

Look in the bottom of an electric oven. See that bar that goes in a circle at the bottom? Turn on the oven and watch it. That’s what happens when you run to much amperage through a wire... (a little extreme, but makes the point... )


Now you could try swapping the breaker with a new one of the same size. I had many go bad on me at our business over the year.

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

converse, on 12 June 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

You do not want put a breaker bigger than the wire is rated for. Ever.

It will work. The issue is the wire is going to get hotter pushing more amperage than it is rated for. If there is any compromise in the wire, the portion is going to get even hotter. I breaker is supposed to trip if it "senses" an arc.

If you're comfortable gambling on the wire keeping up with the extra amperage and the breaker tripping before the wire can start a fire, I guess you can swap it out. That is if you can find an electrician to do it...

Look in the bottom of an electric oven. See that bar that goes in a circle at the bottom? Turn on the oven and watch it. That's what happens when you run to much amperage through a wire... (a little extreme, but makes the point... )


Now you could try swapping the breaker with a new one of the same size. I had many go bad on me at our business over the year.

I have ZERO intention of swapping out a breaker if a professional says there is a slightest possibility of future issues. My family lives here and no gamble/shortcut is worth that. That is why I want a professional to look at all these variables and then make an educated recommendation.....

This post has been edited by All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah: 12 June 2012 - 09:15 PM

[i_have3dogs]

converse, on 12 June 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

Where did you learn this stuff?? You'd be a fool to swap a lower amperage breaker for a higher one without confirming the wire supported the increase (highly unlikely) or changing the wire first. All of the wire I have seen has the gauge printed on it, not the max amps.

You do know a wires amperage rating drops the longer it is, right?? Maybe you have some new Chinese stuff that magically senses how long it is and updates its max amperage label…

I've been doing electrical work since I was 14-15, and yes I do how to determine amperage rating on wiring.And no, I never, ever, ever, ever, knew that the longer the wire is, or the thinner it is the resistance increases. And I have absolutely no idea at all, what so ever, am totally confused and befuddled by what all these letters mean, there ain't no numbers, only letters. Math isn't no letters!!!!!


v*i=p
r*i^2=p
v^2/r=p
r*i=v
p/i=v
sqrt(p*r)=v
sqrt(p/r)=i
p/v=i
v/r=i
p/i^2=r
v^2/p=r
v/i=r

This post has been edited by i_have3dogs: 12 June 2012 - 09:22 PM

[i_have3dogs]

converse, on 12 June 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

Where did you learn this stuff?? You'd be a fool to swap a lower amperage breaker for a higher one without confirming the wire supported the increase (highly unlikely) or changing the wire first. All of the wire I have seen has the gauge printed on it, not the max amps.

You do know a wires amperage rating drops the longer it is, right?? Maybe you have some new Chinese stuff that magically senses how long it is and updates its max amperage label…

meant to say gauge

[Guard dad]

i_have3dogs, on 12 June 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

I've been doing electrical work since I was 14-15, and yes I do how to determine amperage rating on wiring.And no, I never, ever, ever, ever, knew that the longer the wire is, or the thinner it is the resistance increases. And I have absolutely no idea at all, what so ever, am totally confused and befuddled by what all these letters mean, there ain't no numbers, only letters. Math isn't no letters!!!!!


v*i=p
r*i^2=p
v^2/r=p
r*i=v
p/i=v
sqrt(p*r)=v
sqrt(p/r)=i
p/v=i
v/r=i
p/i^2=r
v^2/p=r
v/i=r

Engineering formulas. When you have two factors, you can find the third. Some common examples are Ohm's Law and Kirchhoff's Law.

http://www.sengpiela...culator-ohm.htm

[converse]

i_have3dogs, on 12 June 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

And no, I never, ever, ever, ever, knew that the longer the wire is, or the thinner it is the resistance increases. And I have absolutely no idea at all, what so ever, am totally confused and befuddled by what all these letters mean, there ain't no numbers, only letters.

Then stop giving advice that could be extremely dangerous. Stick to linking to "how to" document, not writing them...

[Guard dad]

To the OP...

Typical wiring gauge on a household receptacle circuit is 14 (gauge). That is rated at 15 amps. You should NEVER put a breaker larger than 15 amps on 14 gauge wire in this application.

If this press is going to be a somewhat permanent thing, I suggest that you get a dedicated circuit ran to it. The electrical requirements should be on the nomenclature tag, typically called minimum circuit ampacity.

If it's rated in watts, then divide the watts by the voltage, and that is how many amps it draws.

EX: 1500 watts divided by 120 volts = 12.5 amps.

[CrabbyDaddy]

rockysmom, on 12 June 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

I hate it but call Mr Sparky....they are pros. Expensive, but they know what they are doing.

I'd love to find a local electrician that I could trust. Till then, it's Mr. Sparky cause an electrical fire scares me really bad.

Good luck.

Mr. Sparky are pros alright......professional salesman with a slight electrical background. I would never ever test them to give an honest assessment of the situation. I have had to work around them before and have seen their tricks. DONT CALL THEM!!!!


Edited to add:
They will use your lack of electrical knowledge to scare you into buying more than you need.
BTW. There is some good solid electrical advise in this thread. I'm not an electrician but I play one on Pcom.

This post has been edited by CrabbyDaddy: 12 June 2012 - 09:33 PM

[i_have3dogs]

Guard dad, on 12 June 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Engineering formulas. When you have two factors, you can find the third. Some common examples are Ohm's Law and Kirchhoff's Law.

http://www.sengpiela...culator-ohm.htm

They're also physics formulas, like 1/2(mv^2)+1/2(Iw^2)=T.

converse, on 12 June 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Then stop giving advice that could be extremely dangerous. Stick to linking to "how to" document, not writing them...

Hmmm... no. Where is the fun in that?

[rockysmom]

CrabbyDaddy, on 12 June 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

Mr. Sparky are pros alright......professional salesman with a slight electrical background. I would never ever test them to give an honest assessment of the situation. I have had to work around them before and have seen their tricks. DONT CALL THEM!!!!


Edited to add:
They will use your lack of electrical knowledge to scare you into buying more than you need.
BTW. There is some good solid electrical advise in this thread. I'm not an electrician but I play one on Pcom.

Crabby, I am a female with a fairly large house that was built in the middle 80's. My husband looks to me to get the things in the house fixed. Now, I've called Mr. Sparky 4 times to get things fixed, fixed. They have shown up on time and present their quote before any work is done. They have done a good job, every time. Yes, they try to talk me into stuff....I'm not going there. K?

Until you can give evidence that I made a wrong decision in hiring them, then hush your mouth.

[CrabbyDaddy]

rockysmom, on 12 June 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

Crabby, I am a female with a fairly large house that was built in the middle 80's. My husband looks to me to get the things in the house fixed. Now, I've called Mr. Sparky 4 times to get things fixed, fixed. They have shown up on time and present their quote before any work is done. They have done a good job, every time. Yes, they try to talk me into stuff....I'm not going there. K?

Until you can give evidence that I made a wrong decision in hiring them, then hush your mouth.

Sorry I'm a little passionate about people getting ripped off. The run ins that I've had with them show them to be less than qualified.
BTW just what "stuff" did they try to talk you into? With that I will hush.

[converse]

rockysmom, on 12 June 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

Until you can give evidence that I made a wrong decision in hiring them, then hush your mouth.

Why is your experience so much better than his/hers?????

[rockysmom]

CrabbyDaddy, on 12 June 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Sorry I'm a little passionate about people getting ripped off. The run ins that I've had with them show them to be less than qualified.
BTW just what "stuff" did they try to talk you into? With that I will hush.

Oh just little things, like replacing the panels. Btw, it was expensive but I really didn't think we were getting ripped off.

PLEASE.....let me know who else to use.

Then you can hush your mouth.

[rockysmom]

converse, on 12 June 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Why is your experience so much better than his/hers?????

I can only give my experience. What's up with that post?

[converse]

rockysmom, on 12 June 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

I can only give my experience. What's up with that post?

I don't see a problem with you sharing your experience. What I take an issue with is your trying to silence someone whom you disagree with.

[rockysmom]

converse, on 12 June 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

I don't see a problem with you sharing your experience. What I take an issue with is your trying to silence someone whom you disagree with.

This is the problem....we are talking about electricians , I don't know jack about it. I depend on professionals . I totally took the banter as friendly banter. I am not trying to silence anything. In fact, I welcome suggestions so I don't have to use Mr. Sparky....they do a good job but they are expensive.

So? What's your problem?

[Guard dad]

Mr. Sparky is one of the franchise service companies that have sprouted up in electrical, HVAC, plumbing, etc. They have national exposure and advertizing, nice "wrapped" trucks and uniforms, and they promise (and usually deliver) fast response times.

They are typically qualified for they level of work they do. I wouldn't use them for some of the complicated work that we are involved with, but they are probably fine for residential and light commercial work.

These franchise type companies do tend to be pricy though. Besides their the typical overhead of a business, they also pay franchise and advertising fees to Mr. Sparky Corporate. That is passed along to the customer.

My advice would be to find a local independent electrician who is licensed and insured, and use them.