[zoocrew]

I read this story and realized that there are people behind those statistics. Sure, the kid should have thought this through but he is now in a permanent situation. I don't know the answer to these type of problems but I do know that schools making these sort of claims need to be held to a much higher standard. We even have truth laws about all sorts of things and maybe these for-profit schools need to be part of the same required truth for a change.

My link

This post has been edited by zoocrew: 03 June 2012 - 11:48 AM

[SPORTS SOURCE]

WOW ~ And he is just one of thousands if not millions in the same position!!!

[Thoughts]

Education is big business, an even bigger scam, and they will make the money any way they can. The thing that needs to change is the exemption of student loans to bankruptcy laws. Just like the housing leanders, they're out to make money, fists full of money. That little exemption is what they thought would be their cash cow. It's not about education, it's about money. In this culture a college degree is the promise of a better life, but only for those who can afford it and lenders know it. Often times a promise unfullfilled and a payday for education lenders...

[zoocrew]

Thoughts, on 03 June 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

Education is big business, an even bigger scam, and they will make the money any way they can. The thing that needs to change is the exemption of student loans to bankruptcy laws. Just like the housing leanders, they're out to make money, fists full of money. That little exemption is what they thought would be their cash cow. It's not about education, it's about money. In this culture a college degree is the promise of a better life, but only for those who can afford it and lenders know it. Often times a promise unfullfilled and a payday for education lenders...

Exactly.

[workingforaliving]

Am I the only one seeing a series of piss-poor decision making in this story? As someone who worked 40 hrs a week and went to college full time and then completed two additional degrees as a single mother (with no child support at the time, btw), I am disgusted that these sob stories keep popping up while the rest of us with student loans obtained them responsibly and pay them on time.

This falls into the category of folks trying to get sympathy for buying more house than they could afford.

Disgusting.

[AdamnAarens Mom]

workingforaliving, on 03 June 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Am I the only one seeing a series of piss-poor decision making in this story? As someone who worked 40 hrs a week and went to college full time and then completed two additional degrees as a single mother (with no child support at the time, btw), I am disgusted that these sob stories keep popping up while the rest of us with student loans obtained them responsibly and pay them on time.

This falls into the category of folks trying to get sympathy for buying more house than they could afford.

Disgusting.

1000+

[zoocrew]

workingforaliving, on 03 June 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Am I the only one seeing a series of piss-poor decision making in this story? As someone who worked 40 hrs a week and went to college full time and then completed two additional degrees as a single mother (with no child support at the time, btw), I am disgusted that these sob stories keep popping up while the rest of us with student loans obtained them responsibly and pay them on time.

This falls into the category of folks trying to get sympathy for buying more house than they could afford.

Disgusting.

No one is saying there were no bad decisions made. But when the decisions are made and part of the decision is based on the for-profit school lying, and the student then has no recourse, that is a problem. Informed decisions based on truth is all I'm saying.

The kid makes a bad decision based largely on the school lying to him and now his life is permanently warped? That's wrong. He is now, for the rest of life, stuck without any options except to be permanently in debt, with low pay, bad credit and must pay the highest cost on everything. With thousands of people in that same boat, it hurts all of us economically, as well as their kids and our generation that follows.

This post has been edited by zoocrew: 03 June 2012 - 12:38 PM

[Riograce]

workingforaliving, on 03 June 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Am I the only one seeing a series of piss-poor decision making in this story?

Nope. When I'm invited to one of these pity parties, I send 'regrets' every time.

And I don't buy into the idea that I should think these people are victims because they were 'lied to.' If this is the story I read last night, the guy said *himself* that the recruiter sounded like 'a used-car salesman,' with all the negativity that implies. He still signed on the dotted line.

Reading between the lines, it sounds as if his parents are as fed up with his self-victimization as the rest of us. 'Nuff said.

[Papi]

Riograce, on 03 June 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

Nope. When I'm invited to one of these pity parties, I send 'regrets' every time.

And I don't buy into the idea that I should think these people are victims because they were 'lied to.' If this is the story I read last night, the guy said *himself* that the recruiter sounded like 'a used-car salesman,' with all the negativity that implies. He still signed on the dotted line.

Reading between the lines, it sounds as if his parents are as fed up with his self-victimization as the rest of us. 'Nuff said.

Ed Zachary.

We all know where to find sympathy in the dictionary, somewhere between cheeze and syphilis. I have none. Piss poor decisions.

[PastNFront]

Welcome to the era of hope and change, where everyone is a victim.

Life isn't fair. Get over it an deal with it.

[janko9]

I'll admit, we are refusing to pay a 28K loan Sallie Mae is trying to say my wife owes on for a few courses she took at state medical college in PA in the early 2000s (Similar to Chat Tech). If this angers some, I will not apologize for refusing to pay a loan that is not owed. She has paid ALL tuition she signed for however at the beginning of this year she gets a letter in the mail from SM saying that instead of 4K for 2 semesters they are trying to say it was really 32k and that she owes the difference. 32K for 2 semesters at a small state college, REALLY?? Can we make it any more obvious this is a scam??? Especially when you have in writing the amount of the classes and the amount you signed for. Funny how she NEVER signed any kind of loan for that amount. Back in 05 this school was shut down by the state of PA along with the President of the school resigning and deciding to R-U-N-N O-F-T. We contacted the Dept of Edu. in DC and they directed us to the Att. Gen office in Philly. a as soon as the name of the school and Sallie Mae were mentioned in the same sentence they had lawsuit papers to us here in GA overnighted. Come to find out there are over 10k students from that school from 2000-2004 that have the same exact issues, some owing much more than my wife. According to the Class Action Lawsuit against the school and Sallie Mae, an investigation was done by the FBI and found there are some students being billed for 50K a semester. After reading the link, I can see a few similarities

This post has been edited by janko9: 03 June 2012 - 04:02 PM

[zoocrew]

janko9, on 03 June 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

I'll admit, we are refusing to pay a 28K loan Sallie Mae is trying to say my wife owes on for a few courses she took at state medical college in PA in the early 2000s (Similar to Chat Tech). If this angers some, I will not apologize for refusing to pay a loan that is not owed. She has paid ALL tuition she signed for however at the beginning of this year she gets a letter in the mail from SM saying that instead of 4K for 2 semesters they are trying to say it was really 32k and that she owes the difference. 32K for 2 semesters at a small state college, REALLY?? Can we make it any more obvious this is a scam??? Especially when you have in writing the amount of the classes and the amount you signed for. Funny how she NEVER signed any kind of loan for that amount. Back in 05 this school was shut down by the state of PA along with the President of the school resigning and deciding to R-U-N-N O-F-T. We contacted the Dept of Edu. in DC and they directed us to the Att. Gen office in Philly. a as soon as the name of the school and Sallie Mae were mentioned in the same sentence they had lawsuit papers to us here in GA overnighted. Come to find out there are over 10k students from that school from 2000-2004 that have the same exact issues, some owing much more than my wife. According to the Class Action Lawsuit against the school and Sallie Mae, an investigation was done by the FBI and found there are some students being billed for 50K a semester. After reading the link, I can see a few similarities

Sorry for the situation you guys are in.

Scammers that use the legal system to get their claws in people are still scammers, even it is a "school."

I'm kinda surprised that no one is wanting to at least try and stop the scams that take advantage of people.

[CrownApp]

BUYER BEWARE!!

[Thoughts]

CrownApp, on 03 June 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

BUYER BEWARE!!

I think this is the best advice on the situ. But once again the problem is that in this society the pressure is on to get that college degree. Hind sight is 20/20, and many on here can be more than a little snotty because they may have forgotten the pressure put on 20 somethings to become successful. With lenders dangling that tuition money in front of their faces with the promise of being successful with that expensive college degree, it's no wonder there are as many people up to their eyeballs in student loan debts. Many people do become successful and manage to repay their student loans, others do not and some become destitute because of it...

[workingforaliving]

Thoughts said:

1338769703[/url]' post='3644075']
I think this is the best advice on the situ. But once again the problem is that in this society the pressure is on to get that college degree. Hind sight is 20/20, and many on here can be more than a little snotty because they may have forgotten the pressure put on 20 somethings to become successful. With lenders dangling that tuition money in front of their faces with the promise of being successful with that expensive college degree, it's no wonder there are as many people up to their eyeballs in student loan debts. Many people do become successful and manage to repay their student loans, others do not and some become destitute because of it...

Bullcheeze.
There are dozens of more affordable options. I went to a less expensive college, where I could afford to live, rather than the high price, high cost of living college that I was accepted to. No part of chasing my dreams involved needless debt.....yet the outcome was the same.

[Thoughts]

workingforaliving, on 03 June 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

Bullcheeze.
There are dozens of more affordable options. I went to a less expensive college, where I could afford to live, rather than the high price, high cost of living college that I was accepted to. No part of chasing my dreams involved needless debt.....yet the outcome was the same.

My neice is going to West Georgia College on a "full" scholarship and still has to borrow money from student loans. Also since "less expensive" colleges often are the butt of many a joke in the student and business world AND businesses uping their education requirements, kids these days are being pressured into some of these loans. Not to say some may see the cost and opt for a different route, but many today are not seeing that option. The education scene is not what it was 20 years ago when I went through college (I don't know how long ago it was for you) but we didn't even have student loans available for college, parents usually either saved up the money or morgaged the house.

Try to get a job with an online degree or a University of Phoenix with some of the major tech companies today. They'll laugh pretty hard at your resume...

[Inspector Callahan]

workingforaliving, on 03 June 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

Bullcheeze.
There are dozens of more affordable options. I went to a less expensive college, where I could afford to live, rather than the high price, high cost of living college that I was accepted to. No part of chasing my dreams involved needless debt.....yet the outcome was the same.

The Chief went to college on the 10 year plan, working full time the whole way. She graduated without a dime of student loan debt. I hear that 70% of student loan debt is for lifestyle. If you can't pay it, don't sign up for it.

[Thoughts]

Inspector Callahan, on 03 June 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

The Chief went to college on the 10 year plan, working full time the whole way. She graduated without a dime of student loan debt. I hear that 70% of student loan debt is for lifestyle. If you can't pay it, don't sign up for it.

Can you use student loan money for things other than educational needs???

[Wineguy]

Thoughts, on 03 June 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

Can you use student loan money for things other than educational needs???

You can use student loan money for anything you want. I took out 6-8k a year in college of which half went to tuition. The school cut me a check for the balance of which i used to pay for things like a laptop and to supplement my income. I worked 40-60 hours a week while in college and I will be honest, I couldn't afford to repay them right out of school. But after a few years in default i am now in a position to pay them off. But unlike some people I am getting out from them as quick as possible. I am borrowing the money from 401k to pay off the defaulted loans and get my credit rate up and get out of over inflated interest rates before the government doubles the interest this summer.

[Inspector Callahan]

Thoughts, on 03 June 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

Can you use student loan money for things other than educational needs???

Yep. How can anyone get through college without pizza and beer? Even the moron in the article said he used it for rent.

[Beach Bum]

Thoughts, on 03 June 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

Can you use student loan money for things other than educational needs???

From what I understand, you can use the money for living expenses. I know an attorney who graduated from law school with student loan debt of over $100,000.00 and this person will tell you that they lived a very elaborate lifestyle while earning their law degree.

[workingforaliving]

Let me clarify, student loans are okay. I have loans. However, there is a huge difference in taking out $100k in loans to go to a fancy college-in-a-box or tv school when there's an option to only take out $50k or less to go to a less fancy public college.

[The Sound Guy]

I have to wonder if there is a direct correlation between the "easy" student loan money being available and the skyrocketing prices to go to college.

When I started school in 1980, it was less than $600 a year for Fall, winter and Spring Quarters for KSU.

My son now is paying nearly $5000 a year + the outrageous prices for the books. My kids are paying up to $600 each a semester for their books!

That is a 10x increase in only 30 years. Let's see, has minimum wage (what a lot of part time students are going to make) jumped 10x in 30 years? Hmmm... $3.10 an hour to 7.25 an hour... don't think so.

Private schools are even worse. My daughter got several scholarships for a private school in North GA that are paying the majority of the tuition, but it's still costing several thousand for her to go there after the $22,000 in scholarships!

It seems that the schools and the lenders have figured out this is a great racket to make some big bucks.

JMO

[Thoughts]

If it can be used for things other than education, then why is it immune to bankruptcy laws??? Now it sounds like even more of a scam...

[Wineguy]

The Sound Guy, on 03 June 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

I have to wonder if there is a direct correlation between the "easy" student loan money being available and the skyrocketing prices to go to college.

When I started school in 1980, it was less than $600 a year for Fall, winter and Spring Quarters for KSU.

My son now is paying nearly $5000 a year + the outrageous prices for the books. My kids are paying up to $600 each a semester for their books!

That is a 10x increase in only 30 years. Let's see, has minimum wage (what a lot of part time students are going to make) jumped 10x in 30 years? Hmmm... $3.10 an hour to 7.25 an hour... don't think so.

Private schools are even worse. My daughter got several scholarships for a private school in North GA that are paying the majority of the tuition, but it's still costing several thousand for her to go there after the $22,000 in scholarships!

It seems that the schools and the leaders have figured out this is a great racket to make some big bucks.

JMO

One of my professors at Kennesaw State was the author of one of the books we needed. He made sure to tell us immediately not to buy the book. He said he was ashamed of how much the publishers charged students. He said the Europeans were more fair and to buy the book and import it for a tenth the price. I think if we can go to a digital format where publishers can get revenue year after year the prices would go down. The problem is that right now they only get revenue the first year and then nothing for 5-6 because of of used sales. This is the same reason video games are now 60 dollars. The used media business has cost publishers 60-80% of revenue and they have to charge a ton up front to cover the costs that used to be covered in annual sales.

[zoocrew]

workingforaliving, on 03 June 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Let me clarify, student loans are okay. I have loans. However, there is a huge difference in taking out $100k in loans to go to a fancy college-in-a-box or tv school when there's an option to only take out $50k or less to go to a less fancy public college.

Which is why there needs to be some truth that is required in what these people are disclosing.

[workingforaliving]

zoocrew said:

1338845544[/url]' post='3644397']
Which is why there needs to be some truth that is required in what these people are disclosing.

Where does good sense start coming into play?
I'm standing on personal responsibility. There's not a story sad enough for me to feel any different.
Stupid people making stupid decisions should hurt. I might even be a fan of debtors prison.

[zoocrew]

workingforaliving, on 04 June 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Where does good sense start coming into play?
I'm standing on personal responsibility. There's not a story sad enough for me to feel any different.
Stupid people making stupid decisions should hurt. I might even be a fan of debtors prison.

A person may only exercise true responsible decision making with truthful, full and accurate disclosure.

[workingforaliving]

zoocrew said:

1338854124[/url]' post='3644446']
A person may only exercise true responsible decision making with truthful, full and accurate disclosure.

It's not 1980. The internet and Google make it difficult for bad reviews to stay secret for long.

[Riograce]

You know what's *really* sad? The fact that these stories are all over TV and the Internet and there are STILL people who are signing up for loans and enrolling at so-called schools because they think they're 'smarter than those guys.'

[Thoughts]

Riograce, on 04 June 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

You know what's *really* sad? The fact that these stories are all over TV and the Internet and there are STILL people who are signing up for loans and enrolling at so-called schools because they think they're 'smarter than those guys.'

It's a diffent Buyer Beware. But so many people want that college degree, any college degree, they will jump at the chance if they think it will secure their future...

[converse]

Thoughts, on 03 June 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Try to get a job with an online degree or a University of Phoenix with some of the major tech companies today. They'll laugh pretty hard at your resume...

No degree here and no problem getting a job at any tech company.

I've got news for you... Companies are looking for experience now. That piece of paper equals about the same thing no matter what name is across the top of it. (with a couple of exceptions...) If you want to be in tech you're better off spending the money getting certified in the technology that interests you instead of dropping stupid amounts of money on a CS degree that isn't going to give you relevant skills.

Stories like this make me even more grateful for my military service.
No Student loans
Skills employers look for
Got to travel the world for free
And USAA.


BTW... You'd be surprised at how many IT folks I come across furthering their education online. For most it is their only option.

[zoocrew]

workingforaliving, on 04 June 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

It's not 1980. The internet and Google make it difficult for bad reviews to stay secret for long.

Nor is it 1880 where there are no consumer protection laws either.

All I'm saying is that we have truth in lending in everything, except student loans? And there is no recourse nor protection in bankruptcy? That is wrong.

[zoocrew]

converse, on 04 June 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

No degree here and no problem getting a job at any tech company.

I've got news for you... Companies are looking for experience now. That piece of paper equals about the same thing no matter what name is across the top of it. (with a couple of exceptions...) If you want to be in tech you're better off spending the money getting certified in the technology that interests you instead of dropping stupid amounts of money on a CS degree that isn't going to give you relevant skills.

Stories like this make me even more grateful for my military service.
No Student loans
Skills employers look for
Got to travel the world for free
And USAA.


BTW... You'd be surprised at how many IT folks I come across furthering their education online. For most it is their only option.

I can tell you that we don't hire from for-profit schools. It does matter what name is at the top. VERY much so matters. I've had to tell many that they simply don't meet the educational requirements with the non-accredited on-line degree. I also give preference to students who have demonstrated a propensity for classroom work over on-line degrees.

[converse]

zoocrew, on 04 June 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

I can tell you that we don't hire from for-profit schools. It does matter what name is at the top. VERY much so matters. I've had to tell many that they simply don't meet the educational requirements with the non-accredited on-line degree. I also give preference to students who have demonstrated a propensity for classroom work over on-line degrees.

I'd say you're part of the problem then. Your requirement that a potential employee sit in a class room gives colleges the ability to charge ever increasing fees. You want consumer protections but turn around and tell the education system their current model is correct.

You have no room to complain about the current system if you can't see your requirement for classroom work is giving colleges the ability to charge any price they want.

[workingforaliving]

zoocrew said:

1338860062[/url]' post='3644470']
Nor is it 1880 where there are no consumer protection laws either.

All I'm saying is that we have truth in lending in everything, except student loans? And there is no recourse nor protection in bankruptcy? That is wrong.

Is the problem with the loans or the school? I'm getting mixed signals here.

[zoocrew]

workingforaliving, on 04 June 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Is the problem with the loans or the school? I'm getting mixed signals here.

The problem is with the fact that the schools are allowed to make false claims with impunity. The student believes those claims and takes out student loans based on those claims. The student is then forever on the hook and cannot discharge those debts nor go after the school for lying. We have laws against this in mortgage financing, housing, auto purchasing and financing, and to some degree in all contract arrangements, but not student loans? That is the shyster schools using the student loan program to enrich themselves by preying on people who are wanting to do better for themselves but may not know all the right information to make the best decisions.

converse, on 04 June 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

I'd say you're part of the problem then. Your requirement that a potential employee sit in a class room gives colleges the ability to charge ever increasing fees. You want consumer protections but turn around and tell the education system their current model is correct.

You have no room to complain about the current system if you can't see your requirement for classroom work is giving colleges the ability to charge any price they want.

No, I want to make sure the person I hire has the ability to sit in a classroom and learn while interacting with others. If the person cannot endure the work in the classroom and get the close, group instruction, that person is simply not someone we look to hire. We want accredited degrees. If the person is not willing to do that sort of long term work with varied coursework that is multi-disciplined, then the person doesn't get hired. We want qualified, well-rounded employees. And we pay to get the best that have demonstrated the highest level of commitment to get there.

This post has been edited by zoocrew: 04 June 2012 - 09:12 PM

[converse]

zoocrew, on 04 June 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

No, I want to make sure the person I hire has the ability to sit in a classroom and learn while interacting with others. If the person cannot endure the work in the classroom and get the close, group instruction, that person is simply not someone we look to hire.

How do you come up with the notion a "named" degree equals a better employee?

Call me silly, but I think it is the job of the interviewer to determine the ability of a potential employee. Not the name of a business (college) across a piece of paper... The world is full of people who effortlessly cruise through school but fall on their face when tasked with real work.

Thirty or forty years ago you could make the argument you're attempting to make now. Currently it doesn't hold water because colleges are full of people that shouldn't be there. No matter what name is across the top....

You're line of thinking created the problem. Change and you might see the system change with you.

[zoocrew]

converse, on 04 June 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

How do you come up with the notion a "named" degree equals a better employee?

Call me silly, but I think it is the job of the interviewer to determine the ability of a potential employee. Not the name of a business (college) across a piece of paper... The world is full of people who effortlessly cruise through school but fall on their face when tasked with real work.

Thirty or forty years ago you could make the argument you're attempting to make now. Currently it doesn't hold water because colleges are full of people that shouldn't be there. No matter what name is across the top....

You're line of thinking created the problem. Change and you might see the system change with you.

If that is your view, fine. But I don't hire people without the accredited degree. The entire system doesn't hire without accredited degrees.

[converse]

zoocrew, on 04 June 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

The student believes those claims and takes out student loans based on those claims.

They believe the claims because people like you give them the “facts” to back it up. You’re talking yourself in circles and don’t even know it. You’re complaining about a system that you enabled with your practices.

Justifying your practices and views justifies the schools ability to increase their fees. You prove to them and those attending there is value. According to you those seeking employment do not have an opportunity at your place of work without the expensive degree. More people apply to colleges to work at places like yours. College applications roll in and they charge more to meet demand. Rinse and repeat…

Can you see the problem???