[mrnn]

Helluva player and from many accounts, a great guy. May he rest in peace.

This is sure to renew the debate surrounding long-term effects of football on its players. It's no coincidence that, just as Dave Duerson (former Bear) did, Seau shot himself in the chest which will allow scientists to study his brain. Football is a very popular sport and will suffer greatly if the violent nature of the game is reduced to increase safety of the players. So what is the league to do? If they continue to allow helmet-to-helmet hit on ball carriers, surely they are opening themselves up to lawsuits. What about our collegiate and youth leagues? Do incidents like Duerson's or Seau's suicide make you nervous as a football parent?

I'm not sure what to make of all this. I love football...it's a great game. While my oldest chose not to play this year, my only rule last year was that if he suffered a single concussion he was done. This was easier for me being he wasn't a starter, no possibility of a scholarship or anything. I can't imagine the pressure on parents of legit prospects.


mrnn

[mei lan]

Saw that...very sad. And I'm in agreement with you. I love football, but in the last few years (before it became a national discussion), I've been totally put off by it because of the head injury element. My 5yo nephew wants to play, but he likes baseball and soccer better, so we're encouraging him in those two directions. sad, sad.

[GeorgiaTornado]

I read somewhere that he was the 8th or 9th player from the same superbowl team that has died... that's weird

RIP Jr.

[HiPlainsDrifter]

What an awesome player to watch. So sad for his life to end this way. It's so true that you never know what demons someone is fighting inside them. I too wonder if injuries played a part.

[feelip]

One of the best.

Thought you guys might enjoy this story.

My link

[CarolineElizabeth]

I should not be reading this considering I have been terrified to sign my son up . Which is happening in a week 😢

[SPORTS SOURCE]

HiPlainsDrifter, on 02 May 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

What an awesome player to watch. So sad for his life to end this way. It's so true that you never know what demons someone is fighting inside them. I too wonder if injuries played a part.

VERY TRUE!!! I was saddened and sickened when I saw it on the news this evening. Such a tragic end to a spectacular career!!! I pray for comfort and peace for his family, loved ones, friends and former team mates. He was always one of the good guys yet one of the best at his craft.

It is a fine line between the health and well being of the players and the money making maching of the NFL. But no amount of money can replace a life.

[feelip]

CarolineElizabeth, on 02 May 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

I should not be reading this considering I have been terrified to sign my son up . Which is happening in a week 😢

Playing football was one of the best things I ever did for my health even now (nearly 40 years later). The physical conditioning, the leftovers from weight training have helped.

It is not an absolute safe sport, but then hardly any of them are. I always thought football was more safe than baseball.

Tough decision I'm sure.

[janko9]

feelip, on 02 May 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Playing football was one of the best things I ever did for my health even now (nearly 40 years later). The physical conditioning, the leftovers from weight training have helped.

It is not an absolute safe sport, but then hardly any of them are. I always thought football was more safe than baseball.

Tough decision I'm sure.

I enjoy my Al Bundy moments every now and then. I will always believe playing football was the best times of my life. I agree with the football being safer than baseball 100%. Football=a cartilage tear in my left knee(no biggie unless the weather is coming on) baseball=double break in lower left leg, concussion, twisted ankle.

[lowrider]

I saw this on the news today.........




Originally published Wednesday, May 2, 2012 at 9:12 AM

4 players suspended by NFL for Saints' bounties
Hoping to close the book on bounties, the NFL suspended New Orleans Saints defensive captain Jonathan Vilma without pay for all of next season Wednesday and gave shorter bans to three other players for their leading roles in the team's cash-for-hits system that knocked key opponents out of games from 2009-11.





source

[zoocrew]

Football is too violent, IMHO. It is for thugs and ruffians. Love to watch it, though, but it is just too violent. I hope the rules do get more scrutiny and the players get more protection. The NFL, the owners, the licensees, the merchandisers and other middle men make a fortune off the players who in reality see very little of the total dollar their product brings in.

RIP, Mr. Seau

[feelip]

janko9, on 02 May 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

I enjoy my Al Bundy moments every now and then. I will always believe playing football was the best times of my life. I agree with the football being safer than baseball 100%. Football=a cartilage tear in my left knee(no biggie unless the weather is coming on) baseball=double break in lower left leg, concussion, twisted ankle.

Exactly. That's what my wife calls me when I start talking about it.

[Just thinkin' hard]

I've come to this conclusion in life as I get older. We're all going to hurt when we get older - whether it's from injuries being active or it's because of fatness because we weren't active. We don't get out of this life alive.

Having said that - my oldest has been a gymnast and is now a gymnast. My youngest has played soccer for many year. Both have had one concussion each from their sports. They've had two or three more from playing at home. The fact is that we spend quite a bit of time at the chiropractor and the physical therapist putting them back together after encountering gravity.

I'm not sure what the answer is about football. It's a rough game. So is soccer (concussion, three crushed noses, one sprained ankle, uncountable numbers of bruises). And, to be honest, my keeper tends to dish out the bruises and collisions as much as he takes them. I have to laugh when folks talk about soccer being better than football in roughness. They've obviously never seen the predominantly Hispanic teams play. ! My son is trained by a Columbian professional keeper - he plays keeper like a South American (which leaves his English team coaches shaking their heads sometimes). I'm just now beginning to understand and appreciate the regional differences in soccer.

[mei lan]

Just thinkin, on 03 May 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

I'm just now beginning to understand and appreciate the regional differences in soccer.

You speak truth.

[halo 2]

Football players are VERY emotional. The BEST of the Best are often volatile, especially on Defense.. its the most aggressive side of the ball. A lot of professionals have a very hard time once they retire because they lose the "rush" and the "being the man" that football gives them. Its the only direction and feelings and emotional highs and lows that they know or have experienced. Its a sad day to see this waste of a blessed life.

[Inspector Callahan]

Baseball: I had two fractures, one related surgery and on sick leave for six months (with physical therapy).

Football: Nothing.

[converse]

It started with ribbons given out to all participants in school sports instead of placement trophies/metals. Now we're talking about changing the fundamentals of football.... The nanny police should be sitting on cloud nine right now!

[Go BLUE!]

A lot of folks are saying this was due to brain damage from the game. What if the game was such a part of his life he was lost without it? Football is violent but it is a very small percent of players that don't live a normal life after the game. You won't hear about the guy that played 15 years and then died of old age many years later. Its not a sexy news story. Its only sexy if the players death was tragic and somehow could be linked to an injury.

[mrnn]

converse, on 03 May 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

It started with ribbons given out to all participants in school sports instead of placement trophies/metals. Now we're talking about changing the fundamentals of football.... The nanny police should be sitting on cloud nine right now!

The NFL is being sued by over 1000 former players for concussions. There have been several suicides. Google Ted Johnson, former Patriot linebacker, and listen to the struggles he's dealt with and then tell him he's being a pussy. How about Andre Waters, a safety who committed suicide in 2006, whose brain, according to autopsy reports, looked like the brain of an 85 year old person due to the all the damage (he was 44 years old).

This isn't some nanny police bullcheeze. Each year players are getting bigger and faster...concussions are dangerous, especially repeat concussions. There are valid concerns that the NFL will need to reconcile.


mrnn

[converse]

mrnn, on 04 May 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

This isn't some nanny police bullcheeze. Each year players are getting bigger and faster...concussions are dangerous, especially repeat concussions. There are valid concerns that the NFL will need to reconcile.


mrnn

Not a single person was forced in to play in the NFL. These guys worked very hard to get in and continued to work very hard to stay in. Each of them is free to leave at any moment they'd like.

If you don't like it, don't watch it. If you have fears about the safety, don't play. Very simple... These guys received huge sums of money and other benefits most will never see to play the game but now want to complain after the fact. That doesn't sit well with me.

[mrnn]

converse, on 04 May 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Not a single person was forced in to play in the NFL. These guys worked very hard to get in and continued to work very hard to stay in. Each of them is free to leave at any moment they'd like.

If you don't like it, don't watch it. If you have fears about the safety, don't play. Very simple... These guys received huge sums of money and other benefits most will never see to play the game but now want to complain after the fact. That doesn't sit well with me.

You obviously know little about this issue. This is new science. These players didn't know about this stuff. Now that the science is available, football, and other sports for that matter, at all levels are taking precautions to deal with concussions. These former players are suing because their employers put them in a position to sustain long-term medical injury by playing them while concussed, repeatedly. Think asbestos.

The NFL is fed by the NCAA which is fed by HS programs which are fed by youth feeder programs. As this science continues to get more attention and the damage caused by repeated concussions becomes irrefutable, parents and kids could start thinking twice about subjecting their children to long-term brain injuries to play a game.

What will the NFL do? As the science becomes stronger, and doctors begin to authoritatively pronounce that three grade III concussions increase the chances of long-term brain damage by 90%, backed by scientific evidence, then the NFL, NCAA, HS, and feeder programs all open themselves up to some serious lawsuits unless they adjust. Will they expel athletes who suffer a certain number of concussions? Will they adjust the rules in an attempt to decrease the frequency of concussions?

This is not the black-and-white issue you've tried to paint it to be. The league has to take action. If you're a football fan, as I am, this is certainly something to keep an eye on.


mrnn

[converse]

mrnn, on 04 May 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

These former players are suing because their employers put them in a position to sustain long-term medical injury by playing them while concussed, repeatedly.

The player put themself in the position willingly. Now with this "new discovery" the players can't complain about not understanding the risks of being hit hard. Do you really think it will change anything at all? Will the top players suddenly leave the sport? The answer to both is no.

It is black and white. We'll see lawyers and nannies try to make it everything thing else but in the end there were always known risks while playing the sport.

Next we'll see people saying boxing is too dangerous of a sport... oh wait...

[eym_sirius]

The problem is that TRAINING advances leaped ahead of changes in the rules. The brain and spinal chord were not designed for intentional punishment. The skull protects us against some accidental falls, but violent, repeated, continual collisions with grown men who weigh over 300 pounds? The fact is that you'd have to change the game completely in order to avoid brain injuries and complications from modern-day football.

The game today is not the same one that I played in college in the 70s. I no longer watch or have any interest in the sport at all. I've seen enough young men in their prime taken off the field on a gurney while both teams prayed. The fact that there are crippling residual brain injuries for those who made the game a profession is just more evidence that the game that I loved to play can no longer be considered beneficial or even safe.

I'm not saying "stop football" or "two hand touch". I'm just saying that I don't want anything to do with today's game.

[Go BLUE!]

converse, on 04 May 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

The player put themself in the position willingly. Now with this "new discovery" the players can't complain about not understanding the risks of being hit hard. Do you really think it will change anything at all? Will the top players suddenly leave the sport? The answer to both is no.

It is black and white. We'll see lawyers and nannies try to make it everything thing else but in the end there were always known risks while playing the sport.

Next we'll see people saying boxing is too dangerous of a sport... oh wait...

Question....Would you allow your loved one to drive a 1957 Chevy every day in terms of saftey? Of course not. Would you have in 1957? Of course. Do you get it now, or do you still wanna be the internet tough guy that is going to pretend to you don't get the point and that you ever played football past Jr. High.

[feelip]

mrnn, on 04 May 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

The NFL is being sued by over 1000 former players for concussions. There have been several suicides. Google Ted Johnson, former Patriot linebacker, and listen to the struggles he's dealt with and then tell him he's being a pussy. How about Andre Waters, a safety who committed suicide in 2006, whose brain, according to autopsy reports, looked like the brain of an 85 year old person due to the all the damage (he was 44 years old).

This isn't some nanny police bullcheeze. Each year players are getting bigger and faster...concussions are dangerous, especially repeat concussions. There are valid concerns that the NFL will need to reconcile.


mrnn

I have known Andre Waters' dad for nearly 40 years as well as his brother and a couple of his cousins. I haven't talked to any of them since around 2004 but I had not heard that Andre committed suicide.

[converse]

Go BLUE!, on 04 May 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Question....Would you allow your loved one to drive a 1957 Chevy every day in terms of saftey? Of course not. Would you have in 1957? Of course. Do you get it now, or do you still wanna be the internet tough guy that is going to pretend to you don't get the point and that you ever played football past Jr. High.

I'd let any adult loved one drive anything they wanted. It is not my place to demand they do anything. I’m of the opinion they’re an adult and capable of living their own life making their own decision. With that privilege comes accepting responsibility for their actions and choices.

Do you get it now or do you still want to be the internet dictator demanding everyone follow your narrow view of how things should be?

I never played football school. Wrestling was my sport and we had more injuries than the football team… Are you going to put your nanny panties on and cry about that next?

[Go BLUE!]

converse, on 04 May 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

I'd let any adult loved one drive anything they wanted. It is not my place to demand they do anything. I’m of the opinion they’re an adult and capable of living their own life making their own decision. With that privilege comes accepting responsibility for their actions and choices.

Do you get it now or do you still want to be the internet dictator demanding everyone follow your narrow view of how things should be?

I never played football school. Wrestling was my sport and we had more injuries than the football team… Are you going to put your nanny panties on and cry about that next?

The point is, using the car example, that back in 1957 no one knew that there was safer alternatives. As far as they knew they were driving the safest thing out there. They weren't at any great known risk. Today we know that there are safer practices out there and it makes since to use them. The players back in the day (and you don't have to go that far back this is a new science) didn't know that they were going to have their brains turned to mush like the players do now. Just like any other field it is up to the employer to make sure their employees are as safe as possiable at work. That doesn't mean all risk is taken away, but you don't ignore the issue, and you don't exploit the issue for profitable gain.

I agree it's there choice to play in the NFL but there are things that can be done without effecting the game to make it safer you won't find many that disagree with that statement. I'm not even concerned about the college or NFL level as much - but High School and below. Was listening to NFL Live the other day and the experts (actual experts not me and you) agree that there are basic things that can be done to lessen these sorts of injury without effecting the game. One is that all players wear the same helmet type. There have been studies that show that makes a difference in head to head contact. When you have Hall of Fame players telling folks they would rather their kids not play the game one should take that as a sign that there is an issue.

Football is a violent game, no one wants to change that or can change that, but you can't sit back and ignore an issue. I will encourage my son to play, just as I did as long as he can. However if we took the attitude that you have we would still throw people in arenas with tigers for Sport.

This post has been edited by Go BLUE!: 04 May 2012 - 04:35 PM

[converse]

Go BLUE!, on 04 May 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

The players back in the day didn't know that they were going to have their brains turned to mush like the players do now.

I agree it's there choice to play in the NFL

It is their choice and you admit the risks are known by today’s players. I don't know if you're a nanny or simply refuse to accept anything outside your own thought process. Maybe both??

Either way it is ridiculous. You countered your own argument within your argument but kept the drivel coming…

If a majority of the players what a change, it will happen. I'm of the opinion that they should have the ability to make the choices that affect their lives. Not you. I'm troubled you can't comprehend that.

[Go BLUE!]

converse, on 04 May 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

It is their choice and you admit the risks are known by today’s players. I don't know if you're a nanny or simply refuse to accept anything outside your own thought process. Maybe both??

Either way it is ridiculous. You countered your own argument within your argument but kept the drivel coming…

If a majority of the players what a change, it will happen. I'm of the opinion that they should have the ability to make the choices that affect their lives. Not you. I'm troubled you can't comprehend that.

....and I'm troubled that you think you know more then actual experts like doctors and former NFL players....but you keep the drivel coming because you have this ridiculas mentality that it's more manly to ignore saftey and keep the deaths etc. coming. News Flash. It isn't. There is a LARGE group of players that meet in the off season every year regarding player saftey at the winter meetings in Indy prior to the combine. The rules commit as it is known, makes changes based on player saftey all the time. The issue is that they have to fight idiots that think it is manly, tough, and part of the game to not just tackle some one hard but knock them out cold. Folks that actually beleive injuries are cool (kinda like you when you proudly brag your wrestiling team had more then the football team, well guess what my basketball team had more then the wrestiling team so I'm a bigger man)

I'm not suggesting current players don't have a choice, thats not the issue at hand, the issue is how to make the game safer or at least fully understand what these injuries can result in and makes sure players are aware of the risk. I'm suggesting that we keep our true national pastime at least somewhat safe, ESPECIALLY for YOUNGER players, by studing the brains of players that have seen the effects of concusions and see what can be done to help protect players without change the game. It is being suggested that Seau shot himself in the chest so his brain could be studied - so lets do that, and not ignore the results. I'm not sure why that is so unresonable. Why stay in the dark ages of saftey etc. because it proves these guys are more manly if we do? Sorry, I think the last person that needs to appear more manly is anyone that plays in the NFL.

Lets look at another sport after a tragic event that learned to adapt better to keep it safer....NASCAR.

This post has been edited by Go BLUE!: 04 May 2012 - 05:39 PM

[converse]

Go BLUE!, on 04 May 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

....and I'm troubled that you think you know more then actual experts like doctors and former NFL players....but you keep the drivel coming because you have this ridiculas mentality that it's more manly to ignore saftey and keep the deaths etc.

Let me see if I can dumb it down enough for you to understand...

1. I am not the one trying to impose my will on the NFL and its players.
> you are

2. I am not the one saying I know what is better for the NFL and its players.
> you are

3. I am the one saying I'm going to stay out of it and let the players decide.
> you aren't

4. I am the one who believes it should be up to the NFL and its players to decide what is right for them.
> you aren't

These are grown men playing in a professional. They are professionals. They are plenty capable of making their own decision. For some silly reason you feel you are more qualified to do it for them though…

You believe my opinion on letting them make their own choices in life is wrong. I'm not going to agree with you no matter how much you bitch or bully.

I disagree with people like you trying to dictate how another person lives their life. It’s that simple. Understand?

[November Rain]

Junior Seau spoke at a friend's memorial service three days before shooting himself.

http://www.utsandieg...riers-memorial/

[TJB]

converse, on 04 May 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

I'd let any adult loved one drive anything they wanted. It is not my place to demand they do anything. I’m of the opinion they’re an adult and capable of living their own life making their own decision. With that privilege comes accepting responsibility for their actions and choices.

Do you get it now or do you still want to be the internet dictator demanding everyone follow your narrow view of how things should be?

I never played football school. Wrestling was my sport and we had more injuries than the football team… Are you going to put your nanny panties on and cry about that next?

There was a segment on HBO's Real Sports showing many retired players suffering from dementia directly related to multiple concussions and recently, it was announced Alex Karas has dementia. Yes, there inherent risks in contact sports but better treatment of concussions could prevent players from being vegetables, allowing them to have a good quality of life after their playing days.

[Go BLUE!]

converse, on 04 May 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Let me see if I can dumb it down enough for you to understand...

1. I am not the one trying to impose my will on the NFL and its players.
> you are - Yeah cause I have the power to do that. Wasn't aware I was in the NFLPA, I'll have to find out how that happened. No one is attempting to force anything on anyone. Infact I even stated I was more concerned for YOUNGER NON-PROFESSIONAL players in this topic. Why would I want them to change a game I love to watch? Could you show me where I said they should change anything, infact I see where I said they should NOT change anything that would effect the game in any way

2. I am not the one saying I know what is better for the NFL and its players.
> you are - Again, I have never said anything about something being better. I have stated that other experts like former players and doctors have said things like going to one type of helmet are better (something the University of Iowa did studies on and now has their players do), but I have never suggested anything, and have never claimed to know how to fix the issue. I have recognized there is an issue, that is something you seem to want to ignore

3. I am the one saying I'm going to stay out of it and let the players decide.
> you aren't - Actually I'm not in it, unless I just got a job with the NFL I was unaware of, I was also unaware you were in it - what is your job with the league?...I also see where I said it's up to the players what they want to do. So could you explain where I said otherwise? Thanks.

4. I am the one who believes it should be up to the NFL and its players to decide what is right for them.
> you aren't - Wrong again sparky. No where did I say the "NFL should do this". I did point out that the players meet yearly on these issues but are often called panseys and sissy by internet tough guys like you but I never said the NFL should change a thing, especially at my suggestion since again I don't think I have a job with them (but after talking to you maybe I do and didn't realize it)

These are grown men playing in a professional. They are professionals. They are plenty capable of making their own decision. For some silly reason you feel you are more qualified to do it for them though… Never came close to saying that, in fact it appears I said the exactp OPPOSITE of that.

You believe my opinion on letting them make their own choices in life is wrong. - Nope I agree with it 100%; don't see where I ever said otherwise I'm not going to agree with you no matter how much you bitch or bully. - Looks like we already agree, what I don't get is why we can't let them do as they please but still attempt to make the game safer especially for YOUNGER players. What I'm promoting is taking care of the older players that were not millinaires and didn't know about the effect of these head injuries. The ones that paved the way for the millionaires of today...and promoting the study of these injuries so that the NFL can be safer for the players without changing the game. If you can show me where I said anything else feel free.

I disagree with people like you trying to dictate how another person lives their life. It’s that simple. Understand? - Honestly where do you get any of this crap from what I posted?

Sad thing is you haven't actually read anything I have posted but keep "arguing" with me. You are arguing over nothing. You are too busy attempting to show us what a man you are because you think injuries are cool and have to be part of the game. We both agree and have said as much that the current players can do as they want. What I want to see happen is them to study the injuries these hits cause and see if there is a way to make the game safer through high tech helmets or SLIGHT rule changes, if not at the NFL level at the Pop Warner and High School level. Guess what, I'm not the only one. The NFL wants this as well - they have already said so. I would also like to see the NFL give a damn about the former players that paved the way for their millionare lifestyles that suffer the effects of these injuries today. The guys that didn't receive huge money. The guys that had to work a summer job to make ends meat. Wait, you think that everyone that ever played in the NFL is rich and has health care don't you? The ones that actually DID NOT KNOW there brains were being turned to mush. My point was they should not ignore the issue that is right there in front of them....if they do, you won't see a mom in this country let their kids play football....I believe a guy named Kurt Warner said that, NOT me. You really have proven you have ZERO knowlege of this subject so please just stop now. This science is NEW, even players like Junior were not aware of the damage being done...NO ONE WAS until recently. The fact that there are only TWO research groups that even study this should tell you that.

This post has been edited by Go BLUE!: 05 May 2012 - 09:07 AM