[The Postman]

Two men came onto their property with guns, and the couple was held by the gunmen for 10 minutes with their hands above heir heads.


But, the two men with the guns are the ones behind bars, now, charged with illegally holding people prisoner, and aggravated assault.


[attachment=115057:r-FAMILYMUGS-large570.jpg]

This post has been edited by The Postman: 24 April 2012 - 11:05 PM

[The Postman]

What would you do if two men with AK-47's came onto your property, held you up from what you were trying to do, and then when the cops came you were thrown into jail?

[Pinches Monos]

could have ended up like the zimmerman situation in sanford florida --- neighborhood watch gone extreme

[The Postman]

Pinches Monos, on 25 April 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

could have ended up like the zimmerman situation in sanford florida --- neighborhood watch gone extreme

I would be very upset, P M, but when the cops came and took me to jail I would be very serously upset.

A law suit would be forthcoming. Trespass is serious enough, without bringing a gun and holding me up. Not only wold I be held prisoner, on my own property, but trespass is messing with some of my other rights.

Thanks's for your reply!

This post has been edited by The Postman: 25 April 2012 - 08:45 AM

[The Postman]

Once the gun was off of me I would not have a meeting to plan a meeting to set up a meeting to decide what to do. I would know what to do!

[NewsJunky]

So much for trying to help protect your neighbor's property. I think it could be a risk after reading this.

[The Postman]

NewsJunky, on 25 April 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

So much for trying to help protect your neighbor's property. I think it could be a risk after reading this.

I don't want anyone protecting my property, while trespassing on my rights with two AK-47's, NJ!

O.C.G.A. 51-9-10 - The unlawful interference with a right-of-way, or a right of common, constitutes a trespass to the party ENTITLED thereto.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I see what you mean, though NJ!

Calling the law was good, in this case, but when the law put the home owners in jail, and allowed the guys with two AK-47's on someone else's property to go free, that was very wring. The law allowed the real trespassers to go free while arresting the homeowners.

This post has been edited by The Postman: 25 April 2012 - 10:16 AM

[rockysmom]

NewsJunky, on 25 April 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

So much for trying to help protect your neighbor's property. I think it could be a risk after reading this.

I get what you are saying but at the same time, all they would have to do is call the cops and let them handle it.
This is not the wild, wild west. If you have a concern, call the police and let them do their job.

[The Postman]

rockysmom, on 25 April 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

I get what you are saying but at the same time, all they would have to do is call the cops and let them handle it.
This is not the wild, wild west. If you have a concern, call the police and let them do their job.

Thanks, rm!

I edited what I said while you were saying what you said. I didn't mean to copy you.

[GeorgiaTornado]

Hey...Psst... Postman... you do know this wasn't THEIR property... it was their sons property. HE closed on the house...not them. HE had them go over and change the locks. The mom and dad will be living WITH the son...but they are not the rightful owners.

Just sayin...know and tell ALL of the facts.

[Happy Wife And Mom]

Pinches Monos, on 25 April 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

could have ended up like the zimmerman situation in sanford florida --- neighborhood watch gone extreme

Yes it could've

NewsJunky, on 25 April 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

So much for trying to help protect your neighbor's property. I think it could be a risk after reading this.

If they knew their neighbors, they would know they didn't own it anymore.

GeorgiaTornado, on 25 April 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

Hey...Psst... Postman... you do know this wasn't THEIR property... it was their sons property. HE closed on the house...not them. HE had them go over and change the locks. The mom and dad will be living WITH the son...but they are not the rightful owners.

Just sayin...know and tell ALL of the facts.

They still didn't deserve to be held at gunpoint by two yahoos.

[The Postman]

GeorgiaTornado, on 25 April 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

Hey...Psst... Postman... you do know this wasn't THEIR property... it was their sons property. HE closed on the house...not them. HE had them go over and change the locks. The mom and dad will be living WITH the son...but they are not the rightful owners.

Just sayin...know and tell ALL of the facts.

The people changing the locks were not trespassing, they had permission to be there. That is as good as being the owner. If my parents were on my property, with my permission, they could consider themselves at home. Detail would not be necessary. Nobody need ask questions while on my property without permission.

[feelip]

Two idiots. Like I have said before, you don't use your gun to threaten, you use it only in self defense when your life is threatened. Bad guys aren't going to be effected by a gun until you shoot them.

I don't understand why these two idiots couldn't walk over and let them know they were keeping an eye on the place. I'm sure the people would have told them what was going on and been appreciative.

Goes to show you that not all idiots are against gun control.

[The Postman]

feelip, on 25 April 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Two idiots. Like I have said before, you don't use your gun to threaten, you use it only in self defense when your life is threatened. Bad guys aren't going to be effected by a gun until you shoot them.

I don't understand why these two idiots couldn't walk over and let them know they were keeping an eye on the place. I'm sure the people would have told them what was going on and been appreciative.

Goes to show you that not all idiots are against gun control.

Thanks, feelip!

I know you wouldn't want two guys with AK-47's coming onto your property if your parents were doing something you asked them to do for you! I can imagine that if you had to get them out of jail the next day; you would be very upset, while knowing that the trespassers were not arrested.

Am I wrong?

This post has been edited by The Postman: 25 April 2012 - 11:20 AM

[stradial]

Let me see if I understand this correctly.
Neighbors see 2 people at a forclosed on and what has been an empty house.
The neighbors suspect that the 2 people are there to steal from the empty house; copper or whatever.
They call the police, get their AR15's (not AK47's), go over and hold the 2 people until law enforcement arrives.
Law enforcement praises the neighbors and then handles the situation badly with the 2 people, who are the mother and father of the new home owner.
Law enforcement does not even bother to interview the 2 neighbors, in fact law enforcement tells the neighbors they did nothing wrong. (hence the praise for their actions)
The son, who is the new home owner, hires a high profile criminal defense lawer, who then puts pressure on law enforcement, who then files charges against the neighbors.
Did the 2 neighbors over react? It seems to some degree they did.
But should they be charged with a crime because apparently the police handled situation with the mother and father wrong?
Apparently the police didn't belive the parents story and took them into custody.
Would charges have been brought if a high profile lawer hadn't got involved?
I don't think so.

[NewsJunky]

rockysmom, on 25 April 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

I get what you are saying but at the same time, all they would have to do is call the cops and let them handle it.
This is not the wild, wild west. If you have a concern, call the police and let them do their job.

Not going to do it without protection of my own so it just means that I don't get involved I guess. Guess my neighbors just need to get alarms and that will get the police there.

[FreeBird]

so the mother and father were not the new property owners?

[feelip]

stradial, on 25 April 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Let me see if I understand this correctly.
Neighbors see 2 people at a forclosed on and what has been an empty house.
The neighbors suspect that the 2 people are there to steal from the empty house; copper or whatever.
They call the police, get their AR15's (not AK47's), go over and hold the 2 people until law enforcement arrives.
Law enforcement praises the neighbors and then handles the situation badly with the 2 people, who are the mother and father of the new home owner.
Law enforcement does not even bother to interview the 2 neighbors, in fact law enforcement tells the neighbors they did nothing wrong. (hence the praise for their actions)
The son, who is the new home owner, hires a high profile criminal defense lawer, who then puts pressure on law enforcement, who then files charges against the neighbors.
Did the 2 neighbors over react? It seems to some degree they did.
But should they be charged with a crime because apparently the police handled situation with the mother and father wrong?
Apparently the police didn't belive the parents story and took them into custody.
Would charges have been brought if a high profile lawer hadn't got involved?
I don't think so.

You know. You do have a point.

[The Postman]

FreeBird, on 25 April 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

so the mother and father were not the new property owners?

They were as good as tenants, Freebird, because they were permitted to be there. A permit is better than ownership, sometimes. I am the owner of property that I have given other people permission to be there. While they have that permission, I can't even go onto my own property, without getting their permission, or evicting them.

People with permission to be on someone else's property are acting as the owner while they are there.

[FreeBird]

Well, certainly it will become a race thing - where is Jesse and Sharpton when you need them?

[The Postman]

feelip, on 25 April 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

You know. You do have a point.

Yes, feelip, stradel has a point, but it has no merit!

[The Postman]

FreeBird, on 25 April 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Well, certainly it will become a race thing - where is Jesse and Sharpton when you need them?

Well, I'll tell you what, FreeBird! If somebody comes onto my property wielding guns of any kind it will be Katy bar the door. And, I don't care if their name is Jesus or Satan, Jesse or Sharpton. .

This post has been edited by The Postman: 25 April 2012 - 12:33 PM

[Marteen-J]

stradial, on 25 April 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Let me see if I understand this correctly.
Neighbors see 2 people at a forclosed on and what has been an empty house.
The neighbors suspect that the 2 people are there to steal from the empty house; copper or whatever.
They call the police, get their AR15's (not AK47's), go over and hold the 2 people until law enforcement arrives.
Law enforcement praises the neighbors and then handles the situation badly with the 2 people, who are the mother and father of the new home owner.
Law enforcement does not even bother to interview the 2 neighbors, in fact law enforcement tells the neighbors they did nothing wrong. (hence the praise for their actions)
The son, who is the new home owner, hires a high profile criminal defense lawer, who then puts pressure on law enforcement, who then files charges against the neighbors.
Did the 2 neighbors over react? It seems to some degree they did.
But should they be charged with a crime because apparently the police handled situation with the mother and father wrong?
Apparently the police didn't belive the parents story and took them into custody.
Would charges have been brought if a high profile lawer hadn't got involved?
I don't think so.

Yes, they over reacted. Bubba and bubba jr made alot of assumptions, and race may have made a difference. They saw a black couple (that barely spoke english) messing with the locks on a supposedly vacant house (trailer?). There are several acres there, so the houses were not that close together anyway. Sheriff deputies obviously took the side of the "locals".

[rockysmom]

FreeBird, on 25 April 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Well, certainly it will become a race thing - where is Jesse and Sharpton when you need them?

Just to complicate things, the wife is white.

[feelip]

rockysmom, on 25 April 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Just to complicate things, the wife is white.

This is REALLY going to screw up Al and Jesse.

[rockysmom]

feelip, on 25 April 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

This is REALLY going to screw up Al and Jesse.

Everyone will just self destruct.

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

Kinda hard to call the police when you're being held hostage.

rockysmom, on 25 April 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

I get what you are saying but at the same time, all they would have to do is call the cops and let them handle it.
This is not the wild, wild west. If you have a concern, call the police and let them do their job.

[rockysmom]

Starr & Dru, on 25 April 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Kinda hard to call the police when you're being held hostage.

Huh? I believe the neighbors should have let the police handle it.

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

If you'll read in post #15 it says they (assuming the people with the firearms) called the police. But still, it would have been difficult for the people being held at gunpoint to have called the police.

I happen to agree with whoever said if a high-powered attorney hadn't been hired, it would not have garnered attention.

rockysmom, on 25 April 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Huh? I believe the neighbors should have let the police handle it.

[rockysmom]

Starr & Dru, on 25 April 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

If you'll read in post #15 it says they (assuming the people with the firearms) called the police. But still, it would have been difficult for the people being held at gunpoint to have called the police.

I happen to agree with whoever said if a high-powered attorney hadn't been hired, it would not have garnered attention.

I think you are misunderstanding. I don't think these two neighbors should have set foot on the property in the first place. If they saw something that concerned them then I think they should have called the police and let them handle it.

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

We have gone over to talk to people who don't look like they belong on our street. I'm not talking about them being black and us white either. I'm talking "strangers" to the area. Doesn't matter the color. We had three empty houses on our street of 18 houses. More than once, we would go up and ask someone why they were there. I think that's what people who CARE about what happens in their neighborhood do. If and when the story doesn't ring true, then the police are called.

We were out in our backyard one day last summer. We had not noticed our next door neighbor being at home so it really caught our attention when we saw a young man attempting to enter the house through a back window. Hubby called across the fence to him and asked what he was doing. The guy said he was the grandson and he was trying to get in the house. Hubby said "well, if you're the grandson, your uncle is there in the basement, so you might want to go knock on the door and have him let you in". The kid DID go to the basement but didn't get an answer when he knocked. Then he left, peeling rubber and cussing my hubby all the way up the street. Turned out he WAS the grandson but he was not supposed to be in the house when nobody else was. A couple of days later, he came to our house, rang the doorbell and apologized to my husband for his attitude. The uncle THANKED my husband for stopping the young man from entering the house.

And no, I didn't misunderstand. Well, in a way I did. I thought the people who were the neighbors were the ones being held hostage. Either way, kinda hard to call the police when you're being held hostage by people with a semi-automatic rifle.

Why shouldn't the police side with the neighbors? They were protecting the neighborhood. Last I heard, that was still legal in this country. Since we don't know the background to the story, we don't know by what it was a regular occurrence for people to go up to this house, have wild parties and trash the place. Often abandoned houses attract drug users and thieves. Obviously the neighbors had no clue that the house had sold.

rockysmom, on 25 April 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

I think you are misunderstanding. I don't think these two neighbors should have set foot on the property in the first place. If they saw something that concerned them then I think they should have called the police and let them handle it.

[jmd]

What a way to meet your new neighbors. I wonder who will move out first!

[The Postman]

Starr & Dru, on 25 April 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

We have gone over to talk to people who don't look like they belong on our street. I'm not talking about them being black and us white either. I'm talking "strangers" to the area. Doesn't matter the color. We had three empty houses on our street of 18 houses. More than once, we would go up and ask someone why they were there. I think that's what people who CARE about what happens in their neighborhood do. If and when the story doesn't ring true, then the police are called.

We were out in our backyard one day last summer. We had not noticed our next door neighbor being at home so it really caught our attention when we saw a young man attempting to enter the house through a back window. Hubby called across the fence to him and asked what he was doing. The guy said he was the grandson and he was trying to get in the house. Hubby said "well, if you're the grandson, your uncle is there in the basement, so you might want to go knock on the door and have him let you in". The kid DID go to the basement but didn't get an answer when he knocked. Then he left, peeling rubber and cussing my hubby all the way up the street. Turned out he WAS the grandson but he was not supposed to be in the house when nobody else was. A couple of days later, he came to our house, rang the doorbell and apologized to my husband for his attitude. The uncle THANKED my husband for stopping the young man from entering the house.

And no, I didn't misunderstand. Well, in a way I did. I thought the people who were the neighbors were the ones being held hostage. Either way, kinda hard to call the police when you're being held hostage by people with a semi-automatic rifle.

Why shouldn't the police side with the neighbors? They were protecting the neighborhood. Last I heard, that was still legal in this country. Since we don't know the background to the story, we don't know by what it was a regular occurrence for people to go up to this house, have wild parties and trash the place. Often abandoned houses attract drug users and thieves. Obviously the neighbors had no clue that the house had sold.

S & D's N, That was good of your husband to call over the fence, and get the guy's attention, He didn't trespass. The kid may have been legal, and your husband may have been in trouble if he has crossed over onto the property. Let the kid trespass, but don't take the chance of trespassing yourself. That would be two people on someone else's property illegally.

[Lucky64]

I want to read the whole story. Where is it?

[The Postman]

Lucky64, on 25 April 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

I want to read the whole story. Where is it?

I tried three times to get the link to work, L64, but I give up.

You can Google Black Georgia Couple Held At Gunpoint, Arrested While Trying To ... and get it to come up.

Hay that works. Just click on underlined section, above.

This post has been edited by The Postman: 25 April 2012 - 09:49 PM

[NewsJunky]

Lucky64, on 25 April 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

I want to read the whole story. Where is it?

Here is a link to one story on it.

http://www.ajc.com/n...on-1425877.html

[The Postman]

The degree of diligence these guys may have tried to use in their attempt to hold the man, and his wife, prisoner until the law arrived has a corresponding degree of negligence, which may result in criminal conviction.


There may be a high degree of diligence, a common degree of diligence, and a slight degree of diligence, with their corresponding degrees of negligence. Common or ordinary diligence is that degree of diligence which persons generally exercise in respect to their own concerns; high or great diligence is, of course, extraordinary diligence, or that which very prudent persons take of their own concerns; and low or slight diligence is that which persons of less than common prudence, or indeed of any prudence at all, take of their own concerns.

[LPPT]

Reading this story and comparing it to the Zimmerman mess, I see a common theme that needs to be addressed through the law and some additional training to law enforcement all over the country.

We have read thousands of stories over the years of people that would be alive if they had been armed and able to protect themselves. There is no way that you don't feel angry when you read victims stories.
I know that law enforcement is also frustrated trying to control crime, they can't be every where.

I believe that guns should be for personal protection, and you have every right to shoot people that are harming you or your personal property. What I see here is using your fire arm to police. I also see that law enforcement does not seem to discourage this in many cases.
My gut tells me that LE knew that Zimmerman carried and was basically policing his neighborhood. These 2 men got a pat on the back for policing.

The idea of ordinary people arming themselves and feeling free to police absolutely terrifies me.
As I said it is easy to understand why this is happening, but it seems like a very dangerous trend to me, that needs to be addressed.

[The Postman]

LPPT, on 26 April 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

Reading this story and comparing it to the Zimmerman mess, I see a common theme that needs to be addressed through the law and some additional training to law enforcement all over the country.

We have read thousands of stories over the years of people that would be alive if they had been armed and able to protect themselves. There is no way that you don't feel angry when you read victims stories.
I know that law enforcement is also frustrated trying to control crime, they can't be every where.

I believe that guns should be for personal protection, and you have every right to shoot people that are harming you or your personal property. What I see here is using your fire arm to police. I also see that law enforcement does not seem to discourage this in many cases.
My gut tells me that LE knew that Zimmerman carried and was basically policing his neighborhood. These 2 men got a pat on the back for policing.

The idea of ordinary people arming themselves and feeling free to police absolutely terrifies me.
As I said it is easy to understand why this is happening, but it seems like a very dangerous trend to me, that needs to be addressed.

LPPT,

Vigilante law enforcement has it's limitations, just like official law enforcement does. But, vigilante law enforcement is much more dangerous to the law enforcer. You are right, i think, in carrying protection. The drawback to that is carrying a gun to intimidate, which is to have it holstered where people can see it. I know I am intimidated when some jerk walks into the reception area of a doctors office with a gun on his hip, and no law enforcement authority (no badge). I personally believe that behavior is a lot like impersonating an officer of the law.

Now, if these guys who are facing charges had used a healthier amount of carefulness, there would have been no, or little, neglect of the law.

[Marteen-J]

Starr & Dru, on 25 April 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

....
Why shouldn't the police side with the neighbors? They were protecting the neighborhood. Last I heard, that was still legal in this country. Since we don't know the background to the story, we don't know by what it was a regular occurrence for people to go up to this house, have wild parties and trash the place. Often abandoned houses attract drug users and thieves. Obviously the neighbors had no clue that the house had sold.

It is called neighborhood "watch" for a reason, not neighborhood confrontation -- to keep the zimmermans and these clowns from killing someone. It is only one small step to get to vigilante.

As far as history, that does not make a difference. A bank is robbed, so are you more cautious when going into that bank from now on? Do you go around the store looking for (& confronting) shop lifters? -- because it happens all the time around you.

The house may have been vacant for a year, but it is still private property that did not belong to them, and the bank did not hire them to be security guards.

The Postman, on 25 April 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

S & D's N, That was good of your husband to call over the fence, and get the guy's attention, He didn't trespass. The kid may have been legal, and your husband may have been in trouble if he has crossed over onto the property. Let the kid trespass, but don't take the chance of trespassing yourself. That would be two people on someone else's property illegally.

my point exactly, private property, not a public area or park

LPPT, on 26 April 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

Reading this story and comparing it to the Zimmerman mess, I see a common theme that needs to be addressed through the law and some additional training to law enforcement all over the country.

We have read thousands of stories over the years of people that would be alive if they had been armed and able to protect themselves. There is no way that you don't feel angry when you read victims stories.
I know that law enforcement is also frustrated trying to control crime, they can't be every where.

I believe that guns should be for personal protection, and you have every right to shoot people that are harming you or your personal property. What I see here is using your fire arm to police. I also see that law enforcement does not seem to discourage this in many cases.
My gut tells me that LE knew that Zimmerman carried and was basically policing his neighborhood. These 2 men got a pat on the back for policing.

The idea of ordinary people arming themselves and feeling free to police absolutely terrifies me.
As I said it is easy to understand why this is happening, but it seems like a very dangerous trend to me, that needs to be addressed.

many people feel that law enforcement is not around when they need them or when someone is caught, they have seen the court system in action and were disappointed. In their mind, it is their responsibility to be the protector. In the zimmerman situation, he said something on the phone/tape about "these guys always get away"?