[Greatma]

They are requiring the students make 870 on their CRCT, and maintain a 85 in their subjects. I think this will be good, maybe the classes will be smaller. I mean Middle School.

This post has been edited by BMR: 19 April 2012 - 07:56 AM

[Orwell]

BMR, on 19 April 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

They are requiring the students make 870 on their CRCT, and maintain a 85 in their subjects. I think this will be good, maybe the classes will be smaller. I mean Middle School.

I'm not sure if the 85 is high enough. It seems like it should be at least a 90 and a moderate score on the CRCT. Discipline and attendance may need to be considered as well.

[Greatma]

Orwell, on 19 April 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

I'm not sure if the 85 is high enough. It seems like it should be at least a 90 and a moderate score on the CRCT. Discipline and attendance may need to be considered as well.

I agree, this year I complained to them, because it was 80. I told them they were not
setting the standards very high. I agree with, bahavoir should be considered too.

[Just thinkin' hard]

Okay - I'm just going to wade into this. The higher CRCT scores help identify the kids that are capable of doing well. The 80% grade is to catch those kids that are capable of doing more but aren't. This is one of the purposes of the gifted identification and classes - they are geared towards those lazy boys that aren't doing all that they could. The 80% grade is also consistent with the Federal guidelines for the gifted classes. I can almost guarentee that the identified gifted kids (this is a federal label - not one that we make up at the local level) will be in these classes even if they have an 80%.

Behavior should be taken into consideration. But, I will also tell you that gifted kids are a handful. There are reasons why they fall under some of the special ed rules. They have been identified as having thought processes that don't work the same as typical children do and have academic capabilities above average. If these kids are kept busy and challenged - they are an utter handful. My girlfriend teaches gifted classes and is the gifted lead for a local high school. The stories she tells make alot of her counterparts just cringe. It's just part of the challenge with these kids. She's also a gifted kid - so she is able to keep ahead of them. But, a traditional teacher that doesn't have the "gifted twist" (as I call it) can find this population INCREDIBLY frustrating.

[tbird]

Just thinkin, on 19 April 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

Okay - I'm just going to wade into this. The higher CRCT scores help identify the kids that are capable of doing well. The 80% grade is to catch those kids that are capable of doing more but aren't. This is one of the purposes of the gifted identification and classes - they are geared towards those lazy boys that aren't doing all that they could. The 80% grade is also consistent with the Federal guidelines for the gifted classes. I can almost guarentee that the identified gifted kids (this is a federal label - not one that we make up at the local level) will be in these classes even if they have an 80%.

Behavior should be taken into consideration. But, I will also tell you that gifted kids are a handful. There are reasons why they fall under some of the special ed rules. They have been identified as having thought processes that don't work the same as typical children do and have academic capabilities above average. If these kids are kept busy and challenged - they are an utter handful. My girlfriend teaches gifted classes and is the gifted lead for a local high school. The stories she tells make alot of her counterparts just cringe. It's just part of the challenge with these kids. She's also a gifted kid - so she is able to keep ahead of them. But, a traditional teacher that doesn't have the "gifted twist" (as I call it) can find this population INCREDIBLY frustrating.

Complete Bull Crap.

My son was in gifted classes and now I have 2 grandchildren in them. Yes--they are smart--but not to the point of being weirdo's.

I think it is wrong for you to lump them all into the same bunch.

[Just thinkin' hard]

I'm not the one lumping them - that's the federal standards. They have to score certain scores on very particular tests - tests that are designed to point out those kids that don't think along the normal channels. I'm a gifted kid - I'm not necessairly a weird do - but I don't see the world the same way the rest of the world does. Same with my close friend. My oldest is identified as gifted - and he has some interesting brain processes, but he's definitely on the more normal end of the scale. My friend had a gifted student - off the charts smart - amazing kid to put divergent material together - he never paid attention in class and took tests by making the letter of the scantron in the ceiling with pencils - he threw them up there in the pattern of the letter. Definitely an example of the weirdo. But, he added so much to the class and is currently a grad student at MIT in the artificial intelligence department.

And, it's not complete bull crap - thanks for being open to other opinions and facts. Glad to know that you're open minded enough to be accepting of people that might be different from you.

BTW, gifted kids are not just smart (huge misconception). They don't look at the world the same way. and they don't think the same way.

This post has been edited by Just thinkin' hard: 19 April 2012 - 06:51 PM

[jenilyn]

tbird, on 19 April 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Complete Bull Crap.

My son was in gifted classes and now I have 2 grandchildren in them. Yes--they are smart--but not to the point of being weirdo's.

I think it is wrong for you to lump them all into the same bunch.

Weirdos? I'm guessing aspergers or something along those lines. And I don't think she was lumping them all into the same group. I get what she saying. My nephew has aspergers, He's extremely smart and is an all gifted classes but he definately can be difficult To handle at times.

[brown*eyed*girl]

tbird, on 19 April 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Complete Bull Crap.

My son was in gifted classes and now I have 2 grandchildren in them. Yes--they are smart--but not to the point of being weirdo's.

I think it is wrong for you to lump them all into the same bunch.

I think you may have over reacted a bit to the post your are referring to. All three of my kids are/were in the gifted program and I wasn't offended at all by his comment. I also didn't take it as them being lumped as weirdo's. I remember commenting to my daughters teacher one year how she must miss having the gifted kids in class on the day they're in Venture and she said not at all and explained how exhausting they could be. She loved them but she said they were the students who always had stuff to add, ask, say, correct, etc... and it was actually easier for her to teach to the rest of the class when they were gone. I also remember one of my kids would answer questions that most teachers would mark wrong but this particular teacher would have my child explain their thought process and give her credit because a lot of the times she answered correctly for someone who was in middle school but incorrectly for an 8-9 year old.

Edited to correct typos

This post has been edited by brown*eyed*girl: 20 April 2012 - 08:33 AM

[Greatma]

Just thinkin, on 19 April 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

Okay - I'm just going to wade into this. The higher CRCT scores help identify the kids that are capable of doing well. The 80% grade is to catch those kids that are capable of doing more but aren't. This is one of the purposes of the gifted identification and classes - they are geared towards those lazy boys that aren't doing all that they could. The 80% grade is also consistent with the Federal guidelines for the gifted classes. I can almost guarentee that the identified gifted kids (this is a federal label - not one that we make up at the local level) will be in these classes even if they have an 80%.

Behavior should be taken into consideration. But, I will also tell you that gifted kids are a handful. There are reasons why they fall under some of the special ed rules. They have been identified as having thought processes that don't work the same as typical children do and have academic capabilities above average. If these kids are kept busy and challenged - they are an utter handful. My girlfriend teaches gifted classes and is the gifted lead for a local high school. The stories she tells make alot of her counterparts just cringe. It's just part of the challenge with these kids. She's also a gifted kid - so she is able to keep ahead of them. But, a traditional teacher that doesn't have the "gifted twist" (as I call it) can find this population INCREDIBLY frustrating.

Yes they will be in these classes, because they have pasted their test that identified
them as gifted. But my child is gifted, because she is smart.common sense and all.
She had to take that darn creative test more than once to pass it. I think this is the
one that makes them in the special ed part. She is very constructive, wants a
constructive class room, and if she makes below a 95, she don't like it. No after they
leave elementary school, it is not gifted classes anymore. It is advance class, which
I do not like. A good score on the CRCT does not make a student advanced. They could
have been just having a good day. A lot of these students that are put in these classes
do not belong there, I have seen that this year. Plus they do not have the teachers
they are supposed to have for these classes.

[isitmemorex]

Venture / gifted is considered special education. They have / get federal funding too. Special Ed does not always mean "handicapped" or "learning disabilities". Venture is considered special ed because they are pulled for "special instruction". They may not learn in the conventional way and may have a thought process that is out of the box and not particularly wrong, just different.

[Greatma]

isitmemorex, on 20 April 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

Venture / gifted is considered special education. They have / get federal funding too. Special Ed does not always mean "handicapped" or "learning disabilities". Venture is considered special ed because they are pulled for "special instruction". They may not learn in the conventional way and may have a thought process that is out of the box and not particularly wrong, just different.

After they get in middle school, they are not pulled. They are in an Advance class
with regular students. Most teachers are regular ed teachers. Now I understand this
is not the way it is supposed to be with the teachers.

[Just thinkin' hard]

BMR, on 20 April 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

After they get in middle school, they are not pulled. They are in an Advance class
with regular students. Most teachers are regular ed teachers. Now I understand this
is not the way it is supposed to be with the teachers.

It's not easy to see this from the outside because most folks do not know who is who. In the advanced classes, the gifted kids are grouped into one class as much as possible. They are then taught by a gifted teacher. When the class is predominantly gifted with a gifted teacher, the school receives a higher FTE count and more funding. In the advanced classes, they have classes that are predominatly gifted (usually the non-identified gifted kids are kids that are boderline gifted but haven't passed some portion of the testing yet). Then, there are advanced classes that aren't predominatly gifted that may or may not be taught by a gifted teacher - those classes don't receive the additional FTE count and the additional funding. Unless you really know the kids or have seen the class rosters, you won't know which class is which.

BMR, on 20 April 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

Yes they will be in these classes, because they have pasted their test that identified
them as gifted. But my child is gifted, because she is smart.common sense and all.
She had to take that darn creative test more than once to pass it. I think this is the
one that makes them in the special ed part. She is very constructive, wants a
constructive class room, and if she makes below a 95, she don't like it. No after they
leave elementary school, it is not gifted classes anymore. It is advance class, which
I do not like. A good score on the CRCT does not make a student advanced. They could
have been just having a good day. A lot of these students that are put in these classes
do not belong there, I have seen that this year. Plus they do not have the teachers
they are supposed to have for these classes.

My oldest also struggled with the creative portion. He's a very logical engineering type. We were told that the current guidelines are skewed towards the more langauge/artistic type of gifted thinking rather than the logical/mathematical/problem solving kind of gifted.

[Greatma]

Just thinkin, on 20 April 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

It's not easy to see this from the outside because most folks do not know who is who. In the advanced classes, the gifted kids are grouped into one class as much as possible. They are then taught by a gifted teacher. When the class is predominantly gifted with a gifted teacher, the school receives a higher FTE count and more funding. In the advanced classes, they have classes that are predominatly gifted (usually the non-identified gifted kids are kids that are boderline gifted but haven't passed some portion of the testing yet). Then, there are advanced classes that aren't predominatly gifted that may or may not be taught by a gifted teacher - those classes don't receive the additional FTE count and the additional funding. Unless you really know the kids or have seen the class rosters, you won't know which class is which.
My oldest also struggled with the creative portion. He's a very logical engineering type. We were told that the current guidelines are skewed towards the more langauge/artistic type of gifted thinking rather than the logical/mathematical/problem solving kind of gifted.

I hate to disagree with you, but that is not the way it is done here. Can you tell me what school you are talking about?

[NewsJunky]

BMR, on 20 April 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

I hate to disagree with you, but that is not the way it is done here. Can you tell me what school you are talking about?

I think the kids who were classified as gifted were split up among the "advanced " classes. Not grouped together. Guess it covered a requirement for funding.

[LGM]

BMR, on 20 April 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

I hate to disagree with you, but that is not the way it is done here. Can you tell me what school you are talking about?

This person may have a student that's already graduated.
When I was in middle school (96-99) at East Paulding, the 'gifted' students had their own Venture class that they went to every day. It took place of our English class, but encompassed much more than just English. The only students in that class were gifted students. For math, we were in honors math with the rest of the students, but we did have our 'own' class once a day.

In high school, we just went into the normal classrooms or took 'honors' classes.
Many of us, being the 'weirdos' and hard-to-handle students we were, were also procrastinators and weren't particularly fond of actually applying ourselves, so we dropped the honors after freshman or sophomore year.

After being in Venture from 3rd-8th grad and then honors and AP for all four years of high school, I'd have to agree that we 'advanced' students (I'm still in honors in college) are definitely a handful. Most of us were very well behaved at home, but at school we generally bickered, had smart-ass senses of humor, and were forever getting ourselves into trouble. It was never the 'breaking-rules', ISS kind of trouble...we were good kids...we were just a handful and a half.

My honors college professor still says that, while he loves working with 'more advanced minds', his honors class is the one he dreads every day, simply because we tend to be overly witty and argumentative when it comes to the material and learning. Most parents don't have to see that side of a kid every day, so they wouldn't know about that little part of their child's personality. If you ask my dad, he wouldn't have had a clue that I was quick witted or obnoxiously outgoing because he never stepped foot inside my venture class. There, with a dozen other like minds, we could all be ourselves.

[Greatma]

NewsJunky, on 20 April 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

I think the kids who were classified as gifted were split up among the "advanced " classes. Not grouped together. Guess it covered a requirement for funding.

No, all gifted (venture) kids are in the same classroom.

[Greatma]

BMR, on 20 April 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

No, all gifted (venture) kids are in the same classroom.

Six gifted kids with 25 regular (advanced) kids????????????????????

[NewsJunky]

BMR, on 20 April 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

No, all gifted (venture) kids are in the same classroom.

Don't think they were at grandkid's school this year.

[Greatma]

NewsJunky, on 20 April 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Don't think they were at grandkid's school this year.

This is Middle School. They still pull them out in elementary, but I am hearing that
is going to change.

[NewsJunky]

BMR, on 21 April 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

This is Middle School. They still pull them out in elementary, but I am hearing that
is going to change.

I think we are talking about the same thing but in different ways. The gifted kids this year were split up (middle school). A few in one class and a few in the others. They were mixed into the classes that were called "advanced" instead of being in the class with each other all day or most of the day.

[Just thinkin' hard]

BMR said:

1334960097[/url]' post='3627288']
I hate to disagree with you, but that is not the way it is done here. Can you tell me what school you are talking about?

That's the federal guidelines. That's also the way to maximize the number of fte's and the funding. If your school isn't doing it that way, then they aren't doing what they could be doing for he students.

[Greatma]

NewsJunky, on 21 April 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

I think we are talking about the same thing but in different ways. The gifted kids this year were split up (middle school). A few in one class and a few in the others. They were mixed into the classes that were called "advanced" instead of being in the class with each other all day or most of the day.

They are all in the same classed at our school. If the county can't pay venture teachers to do it the old way, they sure can't pay to have them split it different
advance classes.