[NavyEagle#1]

The state of Florida seems to have lost there mind.

I highly doubt that unless you get a tainted jury that they will win.

I would put $50 up that they fail.

Not enough out there to win.

Hum... same state had the botched presidential tab thing....

Stupid, might win something small, but not murder... not with reasonable people.

Talk about bowing to political pressure...

[GeorgiaTornado]

They couldn't even get a conviction on Casey A.

[Pinches Monos]

He will probably be acquitted. And then that will be the excuse for riots and looting....

[Riptides]

Charge him with 2nd degree, plea him down to manslaughter, he walks with probation. Everyone near satisfied, investigation will find some patrolman at fault, due diligence will look to have been done. Media will move on to next story and in a year Zimmerman can sell a book, Martin's family can sell a book, profits for everyone.

[markdavd]

Of course it will fail. Like the hanging chads, the evidence presented by the press is made-up speculation and half-truths.

The courts and jury will hear the real facts.

[feelip]

Anyone with an ounce of common sense should be able to noodle out that this guy didn't just gun down another human being for no reason. Of course Obama, Sharpton, Jackson nor their followers have ever been accused of carrying around too much common sense.

[The Postman]

I think this prosecution will be carried out well, and much thought has already went into what offence to charge Zimmerman with. Even murder in the third degree is a killing that results from a depraved indifference, or from extreme recklessness.

Second degree murder is with malice aforethought, which makes the Zimmerman killing a hate crime.

This post has been edited by The Postman: 11 April 2012 - 05:44 PM

[wcso84]

Either way there is going to be civil unrest, if charges are filed or not. Yep, the state will proceed with a speedy trial with little evidence; there will be a not guilty verdict. Then there will be a replay of the Rodney king riots and the monkey will be off of the governments back because they “did their job”.

[The Postman]

wcso84, on 11 April 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

Either way there is going to be civil unrest, if charges are filed or not. Yep, the state will proceed with a speedy trial with little evidence; there will be a not guilty verdict. Then there will be a replay of the Rodney king riots and the monkey will be off of the governments back because they "did their job".

Don't quit your day job wcso; you are certainly not a good psychic.

This post has been edited by The Postman: 11 April 2012 - 06:01 PM

[Riptides]

feelip, on 11 April 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Anyone with an ounce of common sense should be able to noodle out that this guy didn't just gun down another human being for no reason.

Dark rainy night, two people who were obviously stressed over one another being at the wrong place wrong time, I know it's a horrible reason but it's the only one that really fits. We try so often to apply malice to situations where ignorance, stupidity, and/or fear are the real factors, and we tend to fail hard when doing so.

I don't think the prosecution can have a strong enough case, especially on the heels of the Anthony trial, to make a 2nd degree stick.
But looking at the Anthony case can Zimmerman get off scott free like she did?

Why yes he can.

The question is now, would he want to, and why?

Anthony will forever live a life of infamy and everyone will forever doubt her innocence.

Put me in Zimmerman's shoes, I would plea, admit to being scared as hell when it all went down, stick to the rest of my story, offer my penance to society, and then get on with my life. And I would know the quicker I did so the sooner the media will move on and so could I. I think the lack of this going to grand jury was an entire engineering of the case, charges and all. But we'll see.

[lowrider]

Zimmerman will have to go into hiding just like Casey Anthony. Ot take on another idendity or leave the country.

That's enough of a sentence for me, forever wondering if that person behind you is stalking you, going to kill you.

Yeah, that works for me.

[TabbyCat]

Self-defense isn't murder.

[The Postman]

Riptides, on 11 April 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Dark rainy night, two people who were obviously stressed over one another being at the wrong place wrong time, I know it's a horrible reason but it's the only one that really fits. We try so often to apply malice to situations where ignorance, stupidity, and/or fear are the real factors, and we tend to fail hard when doing so.

I don't think the prosecution can have a strong enough case, especially on the heels of the Anthony trial, to make a 2nd degree stick.
But looking at the Anthony case can Zimmerman get off scott free like she did?

Why yes he can.

The question is now, would he want to, and why?

Anthony will forever live a life of infamy and everyone will forever doubt her innocence.

Put me in Zimmerman's shoes, I would plea, admit to being scared as hell when it all went down, stick to the rest of my story, offer my penance to society, and then get on with my life. And I would know the quicker I did so the sooner the media will move on and so could I. I think the lack of this going to grand jury was an entire engineering of the case, charges and all. But we'll see.

I think that you think you know more than you do, Rt!

Let me use a few forecasts without knowing any more than you do. Zimmerman will not want to be released any time soon, without police protection. And, even in jail he will need a private cell, without being put in population with the rest of the inmates at any time.

He is as guilty as if his trial was already over. He was certainly in the wrong place at the wrong time, and killed an innocent kid in the process.

[Riograce]

I think there are one of two strategies going on:

Either the prosecutor's office knows more about this than has been stated in the news (*always* a possibility), or

They're deliberately overcharging Zimmerman and they're hoping the jury will acquit him.

It'll be interesting to see where he'll be tried ....

Quote

Overview of Florida Second Degree Murder Laws

In Florida, state laws establish several types of homicide, the unlawful killing of a human being. The state prosecutes homicides as murders and manslaughters -- it may be helpful to know the multiple types of murders established by state law and understand the differences among them. In particular, second degree murder lacks the premeditation often required for the prosecution of a first degree murder.

To prove second degree murder, a prosecutor must show that the defendant acted according to a "depraved mind" without regard for human life. Florida state laws permit the prosecution of second degree murder when the killing lacked premeditation or planning, but the defendant acted with enmity toward the victim or the two had an ongoing interaction or relationship. Unlike first degree murder, second degree murder does not necessarily require proof of the defendant's intent to kill.

State law specifically requires a charge of second degree murder if the victim dies during the commission of one of the felony crimes specified by statute. These felonies include burglary, home-invasion robbery, kidnapping, sexual battery, and a number of other offenses. To establish second degree murder, the prosecutor must show that the victim died as a result of an act committed by a non-participant in the felony. If the defendant or another criminal participant in the felony caused the unlawful killing, state law requires a charge of first degree murder rather than second degree murder. Florida uses this law to deter and punish unintended deaths as a result of felonious activities.

Defenses to Second Degree Murder Charges

Justifiable use of deadly force to defend against a felony committed against a person or property
Excusable homicide committed by accident
Spontaneous or negligent killing that might qualify as manslaughter instead of murder
Penalties and Sentences

A second degree murder prosecuted as a first degree felony may result in a sentence of imprisonment for a term lasting up to thirty years. Florida laws also permit the state to request a term of life imprisonment. If the defendant has a prior record of felony convictions or has committed other homicides, the state may request an increased sentence of imprisonment for life.

Florida Second Degree Murder Statute

Florida Statutes Sections 782.02-782.36

( http://law.findlaw.c...murder/florida/ )

[Marteen-J]

Pinches Monos, on 11 April 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

He will probably be acquitted. And then that will be the excuse for riots and looting....

Riograce, on 11 April 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

I think there are one of two strategies going on:
Either the prosecutor's office knows more about this than has been stated in the news (*always* a possibility), or
They're deliberately overcharging Zimmerman and they're hoping the jury will acquit him.
It'll be interesting to see where he'll be tried ....
( http://law.findlaw.c...murder/florida/ )

and then the feds will go after him for violating trevon martin's "civil rights"

[Inspector Callahan]

Marteen-J, on 11 April 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

and then the feds will go after him for violating trevon martin's "civil rights"

Good point. Why is it that only blacks have civil rights?

[Shananigans]

If this crap is still notable news in 2 weeks I'll be surprised.

[Marteen-J]

Shananigans, on 11 April 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

If this crap is still notable news in 2 weeks I'll be surprised.

it will be still going on -- when you have the clowns like mike tyson making bold statements about it in interviews like the following:

"It's a disgrace that man hasn't been dragged out of his house and tied to a car and taken away. Forget about him being arrested—the fact that he hasn't been shot yet is a disgrace. That's how I feel personally about it."

link:
http://news.yahoo.co...-222803402.html


edited -- better link here:
http://news.yahoo.co...-221115400.html

This post has been edited by Marteen-J: 11 April 2012 - 07:12 PM

[mrnn]

Riograce, on 11 April 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

I think there are one of two strategies going on:

Either the prosecutor's office knows more about this than has been stated in the news (*always* a possibility), or

They're deliberately overcharging Zimmerman and they're hoping the jury will acquit him.

I believe it's the former. I was fully expecting a manslaughter charge...the fact they're charging him with murder makes me believe the special prosecutor has plenty more evidence than what is on the public record (I think the forensics work on the 911 call with "help" in the background could play huge in this). I can't see a prosecutor intentionally setting themselves up for failure and ridicule which makes me think your second option isn't the case here.


mrnn

[jenilyn]

mrnn, on 11 April 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

I believe it's the former. I was fully expecting a manslaughter charge...the fact they're charging him with murder makes me believe the special prosecutor has plenty more evidence than what is on the public record (I think the forensics work on the 911 call with "help" in the background could play huge in this). I can't see a prosecutor intentionally setting themselves up for failure and ridicule which makes me think your second option isn't the case here.


mrnn

I agree.

[Riptides]

Like I said, we'll see.

Some theories about what the prosecution may believe they have:

Quote

Zimmerman's own defense backs up the murder 2 charge. Zimmerman claims that he didn't shoot Martin in the heat of passion--he shot him, he says, with the intention of protecting himself from serious violence, which implies a rational calculation. The stand-your-ground law requires that the shooter have a "reasonable belief" that he's in mortal danger, where "reasonable" actually means something.

Perhaps (the prosecution has) the evidence (to show) he didn't have any such reasonable belief.

That would put him in a bind -- he'd either have to change his story, say he was acting in the heat of passion and lose his SYG coverage, and it'd be a slam dunk of a manslaughter charge, or else stick to his story and go down for murder.

There is also another belief the 911 phone conversation where he is told "I don't need you to do that sir" when he was watching the victim, may may a key point for the prosecution. At the time of the call the 911 dispatcher has no way of knowing who is in the process of committing a crime since the call mainly concerns a caller stating he is "following someone" whom he has not seen do anything wrong but believes to be looking in windows and possibly on drugs. Now since he was given the suggestion of not to continue following and it can be said that any "rational person" would listen to the advice in order to prevent any harm coming to the caller or suspect before police arrive. If him continuing following and getting out of his vehicle can be be used to show he was behaving "irrationally" in the situation, then it could be further said he went against such good advice because he may have had an "intent to apprehend or detain" the suspect rather than just report a crime. He was noted as saying in the call that police had failed to apprehend before on several occasions, and I believe he may have stated that he was armed.

But I bet the talk for the next few days will center around the autopsy results, and what the prosecution may believe they have with those. If there is a lack of powder burns it would be real easy for the prosecution to say that Zimmerman was more than 5feet away and would not "have (had) a "reasonable belief" that he's in mortal danger".

I'm just looking at all the angles, not subscribing to any one train of thought.

This post has been edited by Riptides: 11 April 2012 - 08:54 PM

[sugail]

mrnn, on 11 April 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

I believe it's the former. I was fully expecting a manslaughter charge...the fact they're charging him with murder makes me believe the special prosecutor has plenty more evidence than what is on the public record (I think the forensics work on the 911 call with "help" in the background could play huge in this). I can't see a prosecutor intentionally setting themselves up for failure and ridicule which makes me think your second option isn't the case here.


mrnn

I heard Anderson Cooper last night say that the special prosecutor has evidence that has not been made public.

[The Postman]

sugail, on 11 April 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

I heard Anderson Cooper last night say that the special prosecutor has evidence that has not been made public.

According to the 6 o'clock report it was stated that evidence in the case lead to charges being filed, and the DA's office is not sharing any of the evidence with the public.

[TabbyCat]

I wonder how many black young men have shot and killed a black young man in the 45 days since this happened?

I am not in any way racist, but where is the outrage about b-on-b crime?

And why does the media keep referring to Zimmerman as a "white Hispanic"?

Racism doesn't come in one color.

[The Postman]

TabbyCat, on 11 April 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

I wonder how many black young men have shot and killed a black young man in the 45 days since this happened?

I am not in any way racist, but where is the outrage about b-on-b crime?

And why does the media keep referring to Zimmerman as a "white Hispanic"?

Racism doesn't come in one color.

What you failed to mention, TC is the exacting truth that white Americans are just as likely to be killed by other whites. According to Justice Department statistics 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In fact, all races share similar ratios. Yet there's no outrage or racialized debate about "white on white" violence. Instead, the myth and associated fear of "black on black" crime is sold as a legitimate, mainstream descriptive and becomes American status quo.

The truth? As the largest racial group, whites commit the majority of crimes in America. In particular, whites are responsible for the vast majority of violent crimes. With respect to aggravated assault, whites led blacks 2-1 in arrests; in forcible-rape cases, whites led all racial and ethnic groups by more than 2-1. And in larceny theft, whites led blacks, again, more than 2-1.


link

This post has been edited by The Postman: 11 April 2012 - 10:14 PM

[TabbyCat]

The Postman, on 11 April 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

What you failed to mention, TC is the exacting truth that white Americans are just as likely to be killed by other whites. According to Justice Department statistics 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites.

If you had a point, you failed to make it.

[The Postman]

TabbyCat, on 11 April 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

If you had a point, you failed to make it.

What point were you trying to make TC? I thought you were just lolly gagging.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here's what Zimmerman thought he saw, when the kid took off his hoody!

This post has been edited by The Postman: 11 April 2012 - 10:38 PM

[TabbyCat]

The Postman, on 11 April 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

What point were you trying to make TC? I thought you were just lolly gagging.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here's what Zimmerman thought he saw, when the kid took off his hoody!

videos.jpg

Aren't you just so precious?

[The Postman]

TabbyCat, on 11 April 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

Aren't you just so precious?

Thank you TC!

I'm glad you understand me.

[2witty4u]

TabbyCat, on 11 April 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

If you had a point, you failed to make it.

No he didnt, white on white crime is just as high as black on black crime!!

[mrnn]

TabbyCat, on 11 April 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

I wonder how many black young men have shot and killed a black young man in the 45 days since this happened?

I am not in any way racist, but where is the outrage about b-on-b crime?

And why does the media keep referring to Zimmerman as a "white Hispanic"?

Racism doesn't come in one color.

I'm from the Chicago area originally so I still read the news from up there on a semi-regular basis. The black on black crime in that city is ridiculously out of control....the gang violence is horrible and innocents are caught in the crossfire. It's not good. It is reported locally but, I'm with you, these sorts of things need national coverage as well to put a spotlight on the problem. It isn't just isolated to Chicago though they do serve as a prime example.

I think the Martin case is garnering attention because of the stereotyping that occurred....and ratings. It's a sad commentary on our journalism in America but, ya know, it is what it is.


mrnn

[gonefromhere]

feelip, on 11 April 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Anyone with an ounce of common sense should be able to noodle out that this guy didn't just gun down another human being for no reason. Of course Obama, Sharpton, Jackson nor their followers have ever been accused of carrying around too much common sense.

You know why this arrest was made......PRESSURE from...well ya know !! JMHO

[gonefromhere]

Marteen-J, on 11 April 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

it will be still going on -- when you have the clowns like mike tyson making bold statements about it in interviews like the following:

"It's a disgrace that man hasn't been dragged out of his house and tied to a car and taken away. Forget about him being arrested—the fact that he hasn't been shot yet is a disgrace. That's how I feel personally about it."

link:
http://news.yahoo.co...-222803402.html


edited -- better link here:
http://news.yahoo.co...-221115400.html

Are your talking about Obama.......Oh yeah, the hoodie fella, got it !!

[gonefromhere]

The Postman, on 11 April 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

What point were you trying to make TC? I thought you were just lolly gagging.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here's what Zimmerman thought he saw, when the kid took off his hoody!

videos.jpg

If that is what he saw, I shoot his ass too !!!

[LPPT]

gonefromhere, on 12 April 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

Are your talking about Obama.......Oh yeah, the hoodie fella, got it !!

I am pretty sure that his reference is to 2 cases of hate crimes one in SC and another in Tx. where black men were dragged behind trucks.
There are years and years of atrocities that can be researched on the internet and brought up.
Plenty of fuel around to ignite a firestorm for those that want one.

I was very impressed with Trayvon's mother's remarks after the arrest, I don't think her intention was to ever cause racial strife, she did not want her son condemned as a punk and the entire thing swept under the rug.
She ask for an investigation.
She got it and the grace with which she has responded to the arrest of Zimmerman speaks volumes about her character.
She was left with no choice but to find a way to get the Feds involved because she was stonewalled at the local level. I don't believe she ever wanted the racial tension it caused.

"I believe it was an accident. I believe it just got out of control and he couldn't turn the clock back," Fulton said, revealing her opinion on what happened the night her 17-year-old son was shot to death. "I would ask him, did he know that that was a minor, that that was a teenager and that he did not have a weapon."

Fulton said even if Zimmerman is found not guilty, the arrest achieves the goal of their campaign to raise awareness and bring him to justice.

"We just want him to be held accountable for what he done," Fulton said. "We are happy that he was arrested so that he can give his side of the story."

Zimmerman was charged following an investigation by special prosecutor Angela Corey, who was asked by Gov. Rick Scott to take over the case.

The decision was met with relief from Trayvon's parents, attorneys and supporters nationwide. In Sanford, where the teen was killed, residents celebrated and clamored that justice was on its way.

Meanwhile, Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara said his client was tired after several weeks of difficulty.

"He wants to be out to help with his defense, but he's doing OK," O'Mara told the NBC morning show.

Fulton, alongside Trayvon's father and their attorney, said she sympathizes with Zimmerman's family but asked for their consideration.

"I understand that his family is hurting but think about our family, we lost our teenage son," she told Today Show anchor Ann Curry. "His parents can pick up the phone and call him, but we can't pick up the phone and call Trayvon any more."

Link to the rest of the story

[hitch]

The original State Attorney pressed the sheriff's dept to bring enough evidence so he could prosecute. When the pressure to charge Zimmerman got intense and he knew that there would be no conviction, he backed out and asked for a special prosecutor to be appointed. Keep in mind that this is all political and re-elections are important. The 2nd degree charge will not stick as stated above, there is not enough evidence to beat his "stand your ground" defense. My info is 30 days old and perhaps the prosecution has something new, I doubt it.

[Adam&Jessica]

I tend to doubt it'll make it to trial. All he needs to get the case thrown out is reasonable doubt that he was acting in self defense. He had head wounds on the night of the incident. That's all it takes for a unbiased judge to throw the case right out.

[Adam&Jessica]

The Postman, on 11 April 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

I think this prosecution will be carried out well, and much thought has already went into what offence to charge Zimmerman with. Even murder in the third degree is a killing that results from a depraved indifference, or from extreme recklessness.

Second degree murder is with malice aforethought, which makes the Zimmerman killing a hate crime.

If by being carried out well, you mean they are deliberately overcharging in hopes of scaring the guy into pleading, then yes. The problem is that you don't have a basic understand of how the stand your ground law works. People have walked away with no charges, and no fuss, after cases in which self defense was much less clear cut, and in which the shooter had no injuries at all. Zimmerman had injuries, and at least some witnesses claiming he was yelling for help. That's all the reasonable doubt he needs.

wcso84, on 11 April 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

Either way there is going to be civil unrest, if charges are filed or not. Yep, the state will proceed with a speedy trial with little evidence; there will be a not guilty verdict. Then there will be a replay of the Rodney king riots and the monkey will be off of the governments back because they "did their job".

You are correct. They are going to try to browbeat him, and hope the jury doesn't look at the evidence. The judge should throw the charges out during pretrial.

Riptides, on 11 April 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Put me in Zimmerman's shoes, I would plea, admit to being scared as hell when it all went down, stick to the rest of my story, offer my penance to society, and then get on with my life.

No you wouldn't. That'd label you as a criminal for the rest of your life, make it impossible to find a decent job in the future, and make you look like a buffoon, all because you acted in accordance with a state law. That'd be the stupidest possible thing to do.



What all of you need to remember is that this is about politics and popularity. If everyone didn't get on the bandwagon, then these charges never get placed.

This post has been edited by Adam&Jessica: 12 April 2012 - 08:26 AM

[Happy Wife And Mom]

Adam&Jessica, on 12 April 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

No you wouldn't. That'd label you as a criminal for the rest of your life, make it impossible to find a decent job in the future, and make you look like a buffoon, all because you acted in accordance with a state law. That'd be the stupidest possible thing to do.

I'm sure his daddy would be able to get his record expunged again

[Adam&Jessica]

Happy Wife And Mom, on 12 April 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

I'm sure his daddy would be able to get his record expunged again

anyone can get misdemeanors expunged. It's cheap and easy. Getting this kind of thing expunged is an act of god or congress. And even then, too many people know his name for it to be worthwhile.