[PUBBY]

According to this story, workers want jobs and will take tougher jobs if offered ... but ...
employers say they have jobs that go begging and today's American workers are just to soft and 'entitled' to demean themselves and go to work for the wages offered.

What say you? Vote in the poll and leave your comments.

pubby

[marine0351]

PUBBY, on 07 April 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

According to this story, workers want jobs and will take tougher jobs if offered ... but ...
employers say they have jobs that go begging and today's American workers are just to soft and 'entitled' to demean themselves and go to work for the wages offered.

What say you? Vote in the poll and leave your comments.

pubby

I believe we're in an era where employers are in a race to the bottom, as far as wages and compensation are concerned. Various factors are in play, of course; there is no one reason why. Competition from the third world, wildly fluctuating commodity prices, and yes, I'll even throw out the ol' greed card- all these contribute to lower wages and compensation.

At the same time, the entitlement mindset is not just a myth, it's reality. Time and again, I've found in my working life, that people my age (34) and younger just don't want to work for their pay. For example:

Last year my job in the entertainment industry dried up with the ailing economy. Well, a man's gotta do something to support his family. Entertainment jobs being in scarce supply, I wound up with a job in a sammich shop. I got hired on, busted my tail, and went from being average joe to assistant manager in a little over a year. Sad part is, I'm not that smart or special, it's that everyone else is just lazier. And I've found that to be the case in every field I've worked in.

JMTC. YMMV.

[Subby's Mower Repair]

While I didn't take time to vote, I do have a comment. I have tried to explain this to more than 4 friends of mine in the past 3 months....the conversation starts with them complaining about how little a job pays, although the job offers PLENTY of hours. This includes overtime, only without the time and a half pay to boot. I have talked till I'm blue in the face trying to make them understand- "Things are not what they used to be!!" They should expect to work twice as hard and get less on the hour than they were used to. This is a FACT. While some people will continue to gripe about it, I'm glad God gave me the sense to realize that WORK is WORK....and it comes with a paycheck. I'd rather work harder and make less as long as I'm STILL getting paid.

Ever since the crap hit the fan (I was among the first to get laid off, being in design and engineering) I have had time to realize that a decent life requires more work for less pay. I also knew for several years during the last few months of my "hey-day" job that this was coming. The money was flowing like a water fall, and everyone was getting paid more than they probably should have been getting paid. I'm one of the few who will admit this.

Now, the unemployed being lazy?.....YES, I have seen more than my share of folks who are kicking back and relaxing while the UE benefits are coming in. What these people do not realize is that while they are drawing benefits from UE, it's the perfect opportunity for them to find a niche to start a new career. Unfortunately, most people don't think that far ahead. By the time their UE is cut off, they not only don't have a backup plan, but sitting idle has reduced 50% or more of their brains and wits into pure mush.

The entire time I had to draw UE, I spent the entire time seeking a different career, and evaluating which talents and skills I had that could offer a viable alternative.

Employers can be as cheap as they want to be. That's their prerogative. From their side of the fence they can go two ways- they can exploit things by hiring inept workers for pennies on the dollar....OR they can streamline their business by hiring LESS, but much more skilled workers. I choose the latter, because once people see you are not up to certain quality standards, then word spreads fast. I would much rather take a hit on my wallet to hire just ONE very excellent worker and not have to worry about tarnishing my reputation. Of course, I would have to pay this person more than what the norm seems to be these days. But a GOOD worker already understands that he/she will not make as much as they once did. However, if you stick it out long enough, they can certainly get closer to that original wage than most people.

I could elaborate so much more on this subject, but time is of the essence, so I hope my point came across clear enough for people to understand the gist of what I mean.

I work my @$$ off every day for less money than I used to make sitting on my @$$ every day. But I found the important part is this- a man NEEDS to STAY BUSY!!!! While you might be making less money and working harder, you are still building your knowledge and character. I have seen too many close friends lose "themselves" by just giving up. Most of them start drinking heavily and try to wash away the fact that life is what it is now.

My recommendation to any man who lost his career is simply this- WORK, WORK, WORK....even if it's tinkering around in your basement for little to no money. A man MUST carry on, lest they lose what made them the man they were, and most of all lose the EDGE that only comes from continued working. Try new things, think back on those things you used to do just for fun or your own self satisfaction, but for Pete's sake...STAY BUSY!!!! Once you get into your 40's, it doesn't take long to lose your talents and skills.....so keep on keeping on, regardless of the pay.

Blaming employers for not paying you enough is stupid on their part, and they are simply pissing their life away by wallowing in their own self pity. Eventually, you will no longer be economically viable to anyone.

(stepping off soapbox now)....sorry for the long diatribe, but it's the truth and it pains my heart to see it happen to so many people who USED to be very productive and amicable people. Too many of them are drowning their lives away in a bottle, feeling sorry for themselves.

[marine0351]

Kudos.

You can stand outside cussing about the rain, or you can come in out of it. I don't like not getting paid as much, but you gotta keep the money coming in. So I work. 'Course, I do my share of griping too...

[Subby's Mower Repair]

marine0351, on 07 April 2012 - 01:39 AM, said:

Kudos.

You can stand outside cussing about the rain, or you can come in out of it. I don't like not getting paid as much, but you gotta keep the money coming in. So I work. 'Course, I do my share of griping too...

We all need to gripe once in a while. The biggest problem I have encountered is with my own family, namely my kids. They constantly worry about me because I don't stop working until about 3 a.m. or so. My health is perfect, and when I finally lie down I sleep very well. I'm one of those people who feel like crap if I get over 6 hours of sleep a night. This past winter there was NO WORK at all, and I was losing my mind and had to take sleep meds to sleep. Now that work is booming I sleep like a baby with NO MEDS, and best of all, no hangover that came with taking sleep meds. I hate that crap, and if I have to work myself to sleep and only get 3 hours that night....as long as no meds were involved, I feel just as strong as if I had slept for a whole 24 hour day. Staying busy is what keeps my happy and keeps me healthy, especially at my age. If it freaks my kids out, well, all I can do is apologize, but I aint changing a single thing about it. This is all for them, and it can be very discouraging when they worry about you working so much, and you can't explain to them that this is what makes me feel better than I have felt in years. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't...so I'll just keep on working.

BTW, I am pretty darned tired now! Think it's about time to hit the hay! Nite, yall!

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

I've been unemployed since November 2009. Granted, I had been with my previous employer a l-o-n-g time and he was very generous with me, both as far as pay and flexibility went. However, I have interviewed for several positions IDENTICAL to the one I had and can't get hired. I'm "over qualified" which means I'm over 40. Or ironically, I'm told I'm NOT qualified enough. Huh? Do something for 15 years but yet you're not qualified enough to get a job doing that when that job only requires a minimum of 2 years experience? Come on, people!

I started looking for a job actually before I lost mine, so I'd been looking for almost year before my first interview. It paid $8 an hour. Granted $8 an hour is far better than nothing and I would have taken it but I was told I was "overqualified" for that job (it was answering phones in an office).

Finally, I started my own business doing pretty much what I had done for 15 years. Ironically I got my job because I had done the same thing for not only the business my husband and I owned but also for a couple of others in the same building. My accountant was so impressed with my ability that he hired me.

I can't find a job in my line of work that pays more than about $10 an hour. If I DO find one, somehow even though I have years and years of experience, I can't get the job! I firmly believe the gray hair is a turn off.

Some of the jobs I have interviewed for have come back available, not once or twice but three times since I interviewed for them. And they still pay $8 an hour. No wonder they keep coming back up.

I actually saw the same decline in pay happen in my previous line of work--medical transcription. In the mid 1990s when I was doing that, the pay was an average of 12 cents a line. Now, the pay is still an average of 12 cents a line! I don't know about your medical bills but mine have gone up since the 1990s. My orthopaedist charged around $50 for an office visit in 1994 (the last year I did transcription) but now charges about $125 for an office visit. If HE gets more, shouldn't the MT get more?

I certainly don't believe that job seekers are lazy because of unemployment. It's an amount on which most can barely buy groceries, if that. I do believe wholeheartedly that employers have taken high unemployment and turned it into an advantage for them. Employers only hire who they want and pay them ridiculously low wages and few, if any benefits. There are still some employers, such as the megacorporations, who pay decent wages and offer some benefits and they have no problem finding employees. If some of the telecom employees I have had occasion to meet are any indication, they should back up to get their pay because they certainly aren't earning what they are paid. I've also encountered some government employees who should do the same, or even PAY to have the job.

[janko9]

[quote name='Starr & Dru's Nana' timestamp='1333802677' post='3621706']
I've been unemployed since November 2009. Granted, I had been with my previous employer a l-o-n-g time and he was very generous with me, both as far as pay and flexibility went. However, I have interviewed for several positions IDENTICAL to the one I had and can't get hired. I'm "over qualified" which means I'm over 40. Or ironically, I'm told I'm NOT qualified enough. Huh? Do something for 15 years but yet you're not qualified enough to get a job doing that when that job only requires a minimum of 2 years experience? Come on, people!

Same position I am in. I have been looking for a year and one month now and continue to be told I am over qualified and I'm only 32. I just don't see it. It stinks in a way, but we have 2 kids so I can't just settle for a minimum wage job b/c of daycare prices. Last summer I started working out of the garage just for some extra fundage, that way we don't have to pay 1k a month in daycare. I am also coming to find out that the lazy workers who just want a paycheck are getting the jobs while the hard dedicated workers are the ones getting looked over. I wish I could find a few news stories I had seen of people doing resume/application experiments. Long story short, The app with the experience is getting beat out by the nonqualified app. I don't collect benefits. I have turned into Mr Mom while my wife works at her somewhat decent job (hey it pays the bills), but I would much rather be an employee somewhere. Moms, YOU WIN!!!!! Mothers Day is just not enough for you. All of you need a yearly cruise vacation or something. Don't know how you do it.

This post has been edited by janko9: 07 April 2012 - 08:23 AM

[The Postman]

There's the coat of many colors story to consider.

Joseph received a coat of many colors from Jacob, (his father). He had many brothers who didn't like him because he was so much smarter than they were, and they worked more than Joseph, because he was able to use his head more.

Joseph was able to convince the Egyptian Faro of his intelligent nature, and he still loved all his brothers even though they had been very disrespectful of him. Joseph sent for Jacob, and his brothers, to come live where they would be in good hands.

The land where my father's died, from every mountain side, It will a sweet land of liberty, with no more cheap labor.

What worries me is the Chinese, coming to Georgia, bring cheap work to do.

http://youtu.be/5s8ccKepCms

This post has been edited by The Postman: 07 April 2012 - 08:10 AM

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

It doesn't surprise me that the unqualified are the ones getting the jobs. The pay is so low, employers figure (and maybe rightfully so), that an experienced person would soon find something else and leave.

I can't imagine having to pay for childcare on minimum wage! My daughter and son in law are in the situation where if they both work, they will need childcare. If one of them stays home, they won't. Neither of them can find a job right now and both have been trying.

My main benefit right now being my own boss is the wonderful people I do work for. My clients may be few but they are great to me. And I'm not just saying that because one of them is likely reading this.

janko9, on 07 April 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Same position I am in. I have been looking for a year and one month now and continue to be told I am over qualified and I'm only 32. I just don't see it. It stinks in a way, but we have 2 kids so I can't just settle for a minimum wage job b/c of daycare prices. Last summer I started working out of the garage just for some extra fundage, that way we don't have to pay 1k a month in daycare. I am also coming to find out that the lazy workers who just want a paycheck are getting the jobs while the hard dedicated workers are the ones getting looked over. I wish I could find a few news stories I had seen of people doing resume/application experiments. Long story short, The app with the experience is getting beat out by the nonqualified app. I don't collect benefits.

[markdavd]

I think another reason employers are reluctant to hire 'overqualified' workers is they know as soon as the economy picks up they'll be looking for a higher paying job.

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

That's possible but if the employer paid a decent pay in the first place, they wouldn't have to worry about someone leaving for a higher paying job later.

markdavd, on 07 April 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

I think another reason employers are reluctant to hire 'overqualified' workers is they know as soon as the economy picks up they'll be looking for a higher paying job.

[cindy013061]

wow wow wow!!!
I'm sitting here looking for a part time job and have gone above and beyond trying. Now that I have read all of this, I don't think im going to find a job. Everybodys story is different.

[mei lan]

I think it's basically the law of supply and demand. Supply of workers is very high; supply of jobs is very low. This means it's an employer's market, and they have so much inventory from which to choose, they can get it for the lowest price possible. I personally do not subscribe to this style of doing business, because I think you get what you pay for (i.e., the old saying you pay peanuts you get monkeys to work for you). I would MUCH rather take less on the bottom line and have excellent employees than just hire any old shoe off the street for the least possible money. But that's where the market is, unfortunately. When I have a big business and need employees, I shall stick to my principles of paying more to get excellent employees.

TP, I don't have the vaguest idea what your post was about, but I gave you a positive just because.

[winston1972]

I got laid off in 2009 when 500K+ people each week were losing their jobs. I did the whole working your network thing and was told they were just trying to save their jobs and applied for tons of jobs, both in my field and those that I felt I could easily transition into based on my work experience, even applied for those I was overqualified for. Nothing. Six months later, 400K+ people were still losing their jobs each week and I was still looking. At that point, six months out, employers think there is something wrong with you.

My field still hasn't came back, but I know tons of professional level people, software engineers, hi-tech mechanical maintenance personnel, accountants, IT folks, etc. that have been unemployed for months and years. Seems everyone I know is overqualified, or over 40.

I've seen quite a few job ads that looked real promising that based on the responsibilities that should be paying in 30's. I could live with that althought its less than 1/2 what I was making, but these jobs are paying $10 an hour. I'd be better off working at the McDonald's down the street for minimum wage factoring in the costs of commuting to the jobs, etc. But McDonald's won't hire me, too educated--MBA.

My son will be starting school this fall and will be looking once again for a full time job. I've been self employed or doing part time work in the accounting field, not my primary field of study or experience but it brings in some xtra $$$. I'm planning on revising my resume, omitting the graduate degree and dumbing it down as an experiment, maybe I'll get an interview or two. Every thing I hear suggests you have to know someone to get in the door.

My big job prospect right now is that a friend of the family might have an opening in their department and inquired if I was still looking. Maybe I'll have a shot at the interview. I'd be a good fit.

This post has been edited by winston1972: 07 April 2012 - 12:28 PM

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

That might work! I revised mine by omitting earlier experience that was irrelevant to the jobs I was applying for, added my self employment job and started getting interviews again.

Interesting that I can't get a job doing what I did for 15 years and what I'm doing now in my own business. But I can get clients.

winston1972 said:

I'm planning on revising my resume, omitting the graduate degree and dumbing it down as an experiment, maybe I'll get an interview or two.

[deewee]

markdavd, on 07 April 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

I think another reason employers are reluctant to hire 'overqualified' workers is they know as soon as the economy picks up they'll be looking for a higher paying job.

And rightly so. I've only made one lateral move in my life with my career/pay (until I was laid off in 2007). In the past I've left companies for better working conditions, higher pay, better benefits elsewhere. I always worked a minimum of 6 years before I started looking elsewhere though. I'd make sure I'd expanded my experience and knowledge of my field...when I felt I'd gone as far as I could go with a company then I would find a new job.

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

Sometimes you just have to let people know you're looking for a job and one will magically appear. Right, Deewee? It's happened to BOTH of us.

deewee, on 07 April 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

And rightly so. I've only made one lateral move in my life with my career/pay (until I was laid off in 2007). In the past I've left companies for better working conditions, higher pay, better benefits elsewhere. I always worked a minimum of 6 years before I started looking elsewhere though. I'd make sure I'd expanded my experience and knowledge of my field...when I felt I'd gone as far as I could go with a company then I would find a new job.

[janko9]

What cracks me up is that I have applied to places in areas we used to live (Indiana,NC) and actually get more phone calls about jobs 500 miles away than I do with companies in my own backyard and I'm sure its like that with others in other places as well. It is VERY odd and doesn't make sense. Moving isn't really in the cards at the moment.

This post has been edited by janko9: 07 April 2012 - 03:48 PM

[The Postman]

mei lan, on 07 April 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

TP, I don't have the vaguest idea what your post was about, but I gave you a positive just because.

I hear that all the time, mei lan, regarding having little idea what I'm talking about!

I could just make it simple, and say, "Jacob and all his sons were workers for the family's survival. Joseph was smart, and if not so young would have been the boss. The Egyptian Faro saw this as soon as Joseph brothers sold him into slavery, because they didn't like him. The Faro made him boss of the whole population when he saw how intelligent he was. A slave became the boss right under the Faro."

Joseph sent for his father (Jacob) and all his family to live in his land, because they were hungry during hard times. Where Joseph had been the overseer for years, before, and during the hard times, his people thrived on what was stored up.

Joseph loved his fellow man, and was not interested in money."

I'm so sorry you can't make it out, mei lan! all I can say is I can understand it whether anyone else can or not.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A man can be Hebrew, or he can be Egyptian, and his name can still be Moses. As a Hebrew he would be a slave, but as an Egyptian he was a slave master.

My country is a sweet land of liberty, and I don't bow to anyone.

This post has been edited by The Postman: 07 April 2012 - 07:43 PM

[ivylove]

The Postman, on 07 April 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I hear that all the time, mei lan, regarding having little idea what I'm talking about!

I could just make it simple, and say, "Jacob and all his sons were workers for the family's survival. Joseph was smart, and if not so young would have been the boss. The Egyptian Faro saw this as soon as Joseph brothers sold him into slavery, because they didn't like him. The Faro made him boss of the whole population when he say how intelligent he was. A slave became the boss right under the Faro."

Joseph sent for his father (Jacob) and all his family to live in his land, because they were hungry during hard times. Where Joseph had been the overseer for years, before, and during the hard times, his people thrived on what was stored up.

Joseph loved his fellow man, and was not interested in money."

I'm so sorry you can't make it out, mei lan! all I can say is I can understand it whether anyone else can or not.

I understood/understand you, Postman.

[The Postman]

ivylove, on 07 April 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

I understood/understand you, Postman.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=c1zJzr-kWsI

Thank you so much, ivy!

I'm glad you can understand. I just don't know why some people have so much trouble understanding what I say. I know a man who spoke in parables all the time, but people had no trouble understanding him.

Now days, I wonder if they could even understand him!

This post has been edited by The Postman: 07 April 2012 - 07:52 PM

[Barbed wire]

The Postman, on 07 April 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I hear that all the time, mei lan, regarding having little idea what I'm talking about!

I could just make it simple, and say, "Jacob and all his sons were workers for the family's survival. Joseph was smart, and if not so young would have been the boss. The Egyptian Faro saw this as soon as Joseph brothers sold him into slavery, because they didn't like him. The Faro made him boss of the whole population when he saw how intelligent he was. A slave became the boss right under the Faro."

Joseph sent for his father (Jacob) and all his family to live in his land, because they were hungry during hard times. Where Joseph had been the overseer for years, before, and during the hard times, his people thrived on what was stored up.

Joseph loved his fellow man, and was not interested in money."

I'm so sorry you can't make it out, mei lan! all I can say is I can understand it whether anyone else can or not.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A man can be Hebrew, or he can be Egyptian, and his name can still be Moses. As a Hebrew he would be a slave, but as an Egyptian he was a slave master.

My country is a sweet land of liberty, and I don't bow to anyone.

Of course, part of Joseph's problem with his brothers was jealousy. Their father openly favored Joseph. And Joseph seemed to like to tell his brothers about his dreams of being over them. True or not, it may not have been a great idea to spout them off so openly. (But then again, Joseph's delivery into slavery and to Pharoah was part of God's ultimate plan for good....no?) All that to say that humility can go a long way whether slave, master, employee, employer.

[gog8tors]

Barbed wire, on 07 April 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Of course, part of Joseph's problem with his brothers was jealousy. Their father openly favored Joseph. And Joseph seemed to like to tell his brothers about his dreams of being over them. True or not, it may not have been a great idea to spout them off so openly. (But then again, Joseph's delivery into slavery and to Pharoah was part of God's ultimate plan for good....no?) All that to say that humility can go a long way whether slave, master, employee, employer.

But, the only way to suceed is to stop thinking like a slave, and start thinking like a freedman/woman.

[The Postman]

Barbed wire, on 07 April 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Of course, part of Joseph's problem with his brothers was jealousy. Their father openly favored Joseph. And Joseph seemed to like to tell his brothers about his dreams of being over them. True or not, it may not have been a great idea to spout them off so openly. (But then again, Joseph's delivery into slavery and to Pharoah was part of God's ultimate plan for good....no?) All that to say that humility can go a long way whether slave, master, employee, employer.

Yes, B w!

Thank you!

Why can people not understand what the problem is? There would be no problem if the bosses would do like Joseph was, who looked after his people, and called in his family when he found that they were struggling. And the family would come into the place for help, when they need it. Shortages of human needs can get as bad in the United States, as it was in Egypt, back in the days of Joseph.

It's not about making more money than the next rich man, but it's about making the United States be the UNITED States.

[ivylove]

Barbed wire, on 07 April 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Of course, part of Joseph's problem with his brothers was jealousy. Their father openly favored Joseph. And Joseph seemed to like to tell his brothers about his dreams of being over them. True or not, it may not have been a great idea to spout them off so openly. (But then again, Joseph's delivery into slavery and to Pharoah was part of God's ultimate plan for good....no?) All that to say that humility can go a long way whether slave, master, employee, employer.

Humility............the most beautiful word in the English language? Well, at least according to this article I just read, it is.

http://www.mindtools...e/newLDR_69.htm

I especially liked this quote from this article: "the sign of a gentleman is how he treats those who can be of absolutely no use to him."

[Barbed wire]

ivylove, on 07 April 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

Humility............the most beautiful word in the English language? Well, at least according to this article I just read, it is.

http://www.mindtools...e/newLDR_69.htm

I especially liked this quote from this article: "the sign of a gentleman is how he treats those who can be of absolutely no use to him."

So true Ivy! I don't believe true humility stems from meekness or lack of confidence. It comes from true confidence. Those who are loud and boastful are the truly insecure.

[deewee]

Starr & Dru, on 07 April 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Sometimes you just have to let people know you're looking for a job and one will magically appear. Right, Deewee? It's happened to BOTH of us.

Yep! Networking is always a great way to get a foot in the door!

[The Postman]

I have gotten my foot in the door of some jobs where ethics did no apply. I couldn't afford to quit, but I did quit that kind of environment.

[momof 3]

PUBBY, on 07 April 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9-4ZXC6nLMw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

According to this story, workers want jobs and will take tougher jobs if offered ... but ...
employers say they have jobs that go begging and today's American workers are just to soft and 'entitled' to demean themselves and go to work for the wages offered.

What say you? Vote in the poll and leave your comments.

pubby

Here is my experience with this situation. My son-in-law has been unemployed for almost 4 months. During that time he has applied for more than 30 jobs. He has had several interviews stating pay, hours, etc. He was offered 3 jobs and accepted two of them. He stayed at one two days and one, one day. The two day job claimed certain hours and certain pay. When he arrived at work at 4:00am the first day, suddenly the hours and pay had changed dramatically and there was no overtime until after 60 hours. WTH? He arrived the same time the second day and was told the pay was changed again and less than half of what was stated and offered in the interview. This job was in Ballground and he took it with every good intention of making it work. But when the employer misleads and lies to a future employee because they hope to snag a great worker and then counts on the fact that this employee is desperate and they can change the rules and take advantage of them, who's at fault then? My SIL explained to the original interviewer what problem he was having and was told, 'Sorry, the circumstances changed. Take it or leave it'. At the end of the day after all the changes the employer had made to the original offer, my SIL was going to be making less than minimum wage for a 60-70 hr work week, with no OT. That was way less than half of what he was told that he would be making to start, so he quit, with our blessing. He wouldn't have made gas money driving back and forth to work.

The one day job was the same thing. He was told one thing and the exact opposite was true. Just because people need a job, employers shouldn't take advantage of the situation and try to screw the people they hire by lying and changing the rules in the middle of the game.

All people who are unemployed aren't lazy. My SIL is one of the hardest working men I have ever known, but he can't and shouldn't have to work for people who lie to him and others in the same boat. Greed by companies doing the hiring is part of the problem here, not the so called 'lazy' employees.

[Captain Rhett Butler]

You get what you pay for. When you pay the workers a better than average salary, you'll get better than average productivity. When you go for minimum wage workers, you get poor customer service and of course the "attitude". You'll lose customers in the long run.

[Mr.Dis]

Captain Rhett Butler, on 08 April 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

You get what you pay for. When you pay the workers a better than average salary, you'll get better than average productivity. When you go for minimum wage workers, you get poor customer service and of course the "attitude". You'll lose customers in the long run.

That reminds me of yesterday's Under Cover Boss. The CEO of Roto Rooter went undercover. One task was to answer dispatch. That was an eyeopening experience for him. His inability to provide adequate customer service to the caller and the way his "trainer" responded to it.

[MissSophie]

One of my workleaders used to look at his crew and say "That's why they call it WORK, people!"

About 75 % of my staff would give you their last breath if you asked them to. The other 25% was a constant struggle to try to build their work ethic which is mostly a losing battle. Sadly, I had to fire quite a few. Our company was top of the line but you EARNED your salary; every penny.

[zoocrew]

momof 3, on 08 April 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Here is my experience with this situation. My son-in-law has been unemployed for almost 4 months. During that time he has applied for more than 30 jobs. He has had several interviews stating pay, hours, etc. He was offered 3 jobs and accepted two of them. He stayed at one two days and one, one day. The two day job claimed certain hours and certain pay. When he arrived at work at 4:00am the first day, suddenly the hours and pay had changed dramatically and there was no overtime until after 60 hours. WTH? He arrived the same time the second day and was told the pay was changed again and less than half of what was stated and offered in the interview. This job was in Ballground and he took it with every good intention of making it work. But when the employer misleads and lies to a future employee because they hope to snag a great worker and then counts on the fact that this employee is desperate and they can change the rules and take advantage of them, who's at fault then? My SIL explained to the original interviewer what problem he was having and was told, 'Sorry, the circumstances changed. Take it or leave it'. At the end of the day after all the changes the employer had made to the original offer, my SIL was going to be making less than minimum wage for a 60-70 hr work week, with no OT. That was way less than half of what he was told that he would be making to start, so he quit, with our blessing. He wouldn't have made gas money driving back and forth to work.

The one day job was the same thing. He was told one thing and the exact opposite was true. Just because people need a job, employers shouldn't take advantage of the situation and try to screw the people they hire by lying and changing the rules in the middle of the game.

All people who are unemployed aren't lazy. My SIL is one of the hardest working men I have ever known, but he can't and shouldn't have to work for people who lie to him and others in the same boat. Greed by companies doing the hiring is part of the problem here, not the so called 'lazy' employees.

Employers abuse the system too. There are good and bad in both. Demonizing the poor is as bad as demonizing the wealthy. Good for your SIL. He did the right thing even if hte employer was a jerk. Here's to hoping he finds a GREAT job soon!

[converse]

My field is hurting for people. The problem is you have to have good experience to find a job. No one is willing to train so they poach people from other companies on a regular basis and it keeps the cycle going. I'm salary and everyone I know in my filed is salary. It is very common to work well over 40 hours a week and there is never overtime pay. It’s the way it is and I accept.

I'm from the Louisville area and jobs are still good there. I started my work life in the construction industry and have seen the shift in the work force from 20-25 years ago to the present. Back then I never saw a Mexican crew doing work. (dang! I said Mexican... I'll be called a bigot now...) Now when talking to those I still know in the field I hear of nothing but Mexican crews. The kicker is their rates aren't any cheaper than an American based crew. The real reason they are used is because they are reliable. They show up everyday and do what they're told. There is still good money on the construction/home improvement industry but laziness and a lack of pride in work allowed immigrants to work their way in and darn near take over the industry because they make better employees.

Labeling a company as greedy is dumb…. A company should do everything it can to produce the best product at the least possible cost. There are lots of factors between those two goals, but the best companies will find the right number. Any company that makes a profit could be called greedy because it is getting more value from an employee than it pays for them. It amazes me how many people can’t grasp that simple idea.

[The Postman]

converse, on 08 April 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

My field is hurting for people. The problem is you have to have good experience to find a job. No one is willing to train so they poach people from other companies on a regular basis and it keeps the cycle going. I'm salary and everyone I know in my filed is salary. It is very common to work well over 40 hours a week and there is never overtime pay. It's the way it is and I accept.

I'm from the Louisville area and jobs are still good there. I started my work life in the construction industry and have seen the shift in the work force from 20-25 years ago to the present. Back then I never saw a Mexican crew doing work. (dang! I said Mexican... I'll be called a bigot now...) Now when talking to those I still know in the field I hear of nothing but Mexican crews. The kicker is their rates aren't any cheaper than an American based crew. The real reason they are used is because they are reliable. They show up everyday and do what they're told. There is still good money on the construction/home improvement industry but laziness and a lack of pride in work allowed immigrants to work their way in and darn near take over the industry because they make better employees.

Labeling a company as greedy is dumb…. A company should do everything it can to produce the best product at the least possible cost. There are lots of factors between those two goals, but the best companies will find the right number. Any company that makes a profit could be called greedy because it is getting more value from an employee than it pays for them. It amazes me how many people can't grasp that simple idea.

Employers who offer good benefits and a good workplace have no problem getting good employees. converse!
It's as simple as that.

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

He should report this employer to the DOL. Or just sit back with a satisfied grin when they get busted.

The same thing has happened to my SIL. He will be told one thing during the interview and then something else on the first day and then generally even something else after the first paycheck.

I, too, have been told different things during a phone interview and a face to face interview. I even compared notes with another person who interviewed the same place I did last summer and she was told something different than I was!

momof 3, on 08 April 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Here is my experience with this situation. My son-in-law has been unemployed for almost 4 months. During that time he has applied for more than 30 jobs. He has had several interviews stating pay, hours, etc. He was offered 3 jobs and accepted two of them. He stayed at one two days and one, one day. The two day job claimed certain hours and certain pay. When he arrived at work at 4:00am the first day, suddenly the hours and pay had changed dramatically and there was no overtime until after 60 hours. WTH? He arrived the same time the second day and was told the pay was changed again and less than half of what was stated and offered in the interview. This job was in Ballground and he took it with every good intention of making it work. But when the employer misleads and lies to a future employee because they hope to snag a great worker and then counts on the fact that this employee is desperate and they can change the rules and take advantage of them, who's at fault then? My SIL explained to the original interviewer what problem he was having and was told, 'Sorry, the circumstances changed. Take it or leave it'. At the end of the day after all the changes the employer had made to the original offer, my SIL was going to be making less than minimum wage for a 60-70 hr work week, with no OT. That was way less than half of what he was told that he would be making to start, so he quit, with our blessing. He wouldn't have made gas money driving back and forth to work.

The one day job was the same thing. He was told one thing and the exact opposite was true. Just because people need a job, employers shouldn't take advantage of the situation and try to screw the people they hire by lying and changing the rules in the middle of the game.

All people who are unemployed aren't lazy. My SIL is one of the hardest working men I have ever known, but he can't and shouldn't have to work for people who lie to him and others in the same boat. Greed by companies doing the hiring is part of the problem here, not the so called 'lazy' employees.

Thank you ZC. I, too, feel the same way.

zoocrew, on 08 April 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

Employers abuse the system too. There are good and bad in both. Demonizing the poor is as bad as demonizing the wealthy. Good for your SIL. He did the right thing even if hte employer was a jerk. Here's to hoping he finds a GREAT job soon!

[Subby's Mower Repair]

Captain Rhett Butler, on 08 April 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

You get what you pay for. When you pay the workers a better than average salary, you'll get better than average productivity. When you go for minimum wage workers, you get poor customer service and of course the "attitude". You'll lose customers in the long run.

This is not only true, but it has become the norm for most Americn businesses. That's why good customer service and competence no longer exists in the American market. I say let the jack-asses who make those decisions run the business right into the ground. It's too bad that corporate protection allows them to just walk away scott free. They advise hiring idiots and ruin the business, but not until they have lined their pockets on the way out...usually to do the same thing to another company.

Here's an example- I have to deal with certain Auto Parts stores on a daily basis. In doing so, I DREAD even walking in the door. I see a myriad of problems- sales people who don't jack about what their doing, and long lines behind ONE counter while 2 or 3 other workers are outside smoking their damned cigarettes and could care less about their job. Obviously, they don't get fired, or even reprimanded, because the same fools have been at these locations for well over a year or more. This falls on the supervisor. So, it's also obvious that today's supervisors are just as inept as the kids they hire.

I am very close to getting my business accounts in order so that I can deal directly with the suppliers. I can't wait!!!!

My point being, not only do a lot of companies pay very little wage, but worse, they don't give a rat's ass to pay that wage to dummys who have no interest in customer service. They get paid either way, so where's the incentive to actually WORK and do the job right?

And yes, I have taken a couple of jobs that promised me this and that....well, they flat out LIED their asses off once I showed up and gave them my all. They take advantage of people like me who give 100%, get them back behind the 8-ball, then drop you like yesterday's trash. I have no idea how they sleep at night, although my first guess would be lots of liquor and sleeping pills. If I sound pissed off about this, it's because I am. When I get my accounts set up, I'll be so happy to not have to deal with the large chain store B.S. anymore. Most adults with some common knowledge of how business should be run can see clearly that this nation continues down the road to ruin....and it's become a STEEP hill with no brakes.

I feel like I'm within my rights to complain about this, but I also know the only way I can contribute to helping things turn around is to do the OPPOSITE of what I am seeing. Customer satisfaction is the key to success. I'm just not seeing much of that anymore, and it makes me worry about my kids' futures.

Many employers will look you straight in the eye and lie their asses off to you with promises that they NEVER had any intention of keeping to begin with. I see it all the time, now more than in my entire life. Accountability, honesty, and courtesy has become a thing of the past. It just plain out sucks, and it will be the demise of America....which isn't far off now.

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

Often the supervisors ARE kids. Just because you have a degree from a college does not mean you have the skills necessary to supervise others.

Subby, on 08 April 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

This falls on the supervisor. So, it's also obvious that today's supervisors are just as inept as the kids they hire.

[Subby's Mower Repair]

Starr & Dru, on 08 April 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

Often the supervisors ARE kids. Just because you have a degree from a college does not mean you have the skills necessary to supervise others.

Degree's don't mean squat in my business. Heck they didn't mean much when I was in civil engineering either. Being a mechanic or an engineer is akin to being a good musician- you either "have it" or you don't. Passing tests in class do not impress me at all. SHOWING me that you know your stuff is all I care about.

And btw, although my business is starting to fly off the charts, I have vowed to NOT hire anyone else, no matter how busy we get. My bizz consists of me and my partner- 2 life long friends and professional mechanics. I can't afford to make mistakes, and mistakes are something I will never have to worry about as long as I keep bizz small and ran by 30+ year professionals. Yes, it costs a lot of money to have that kind of worker, but it's worth every nickle, and it keeps your good reputation growing by leaps and bounds every month, and every season. We'll never get rich doing this, but we WILL be a trusted company with regulars who will drive from the other side of Atlanta, just to have their repairs done right. I have had people say that my ego gets in the way of making the big bucks. I can only reply to them that big bucks are not what I want in life. Success goes far beyond your profit margin. IMO, success is founded on doing good work, standing by your work, and keeping your customers happy and coming back again and again. If you keep that part up, then word of mouth will give you the most important thing of all- job security!!

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

My hubby and I agree with you wholeheartedly on this. He was a machinist. He had a talent for it. He could take a piece of steel and make anything out of it. Literally, anything. With or without a blueprint to go by. He could measure within a half a hair. Heck, I can't even SEE within half a hair. Me, OTOH, can spell just about anything (OK, sometimes I have to think about it). Spelling came easy to me. We both have our talents and we compliment each other rather well.

As for music, neither of us can carry a tune in a bucket and can barely play the radio. Our daughter plays several instruments and writes music. We barely know how to play the CDs she gives us.

Subby, on 08 April 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

Being a mechanic or an engineer is akin to being a good musician- you either "have it" or you don't.