[zoocrew]

It looks like the improving economy has finally been felt by the average consumers. More good news for the economy!

My link

[Mr.Dis]

I feel soo good about it that I bought a new car. Ohhh wait... I had to trade the vehicle that worked best for us in on a smaller one that is only OK. The economy forced us to do that so we could afford to continue to let my wife drive twice as far to her new Job for 8000/year less. I guess that just makes things wonderful huh.

[Oh No Its Me]

We don't feel better about it. In fact we're starting to think about the future if the economy fails.

[zoocrew]

Mr.Dis, on 31 March 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

I feel soo good about it that I bought a new car. Ohhh wait... I had to trade the vehicle that worked best for us in on a smaller one that is only OK. The economy forced us to do that so we could afford to continue to let my wife drive twice as far to her new Job for 8000/year less. I guess that just makes things wonderful huh.

Feeling better about the economy and a particular situation are not the same thing. Don't present an anecdotal and make it the norm for everyone.

But what you're experiencing is what Europe figured out 60 years ago after World War 2. People cannot continue with big cars and live a long way from their employment. Smaller, economical cars are much better for everyone and living in the 'burbs is just not practical. The rest of the industrialized world figured this out already and America is now having to wake up to the cold reality.

Still, things are getting better. We need a new car desperately but until I can get the boys out of baseball and basketball, I am not wanting to put miles on the family car. They will both be in middle school in two years so I'm hoping things will slow down enough then to get a new one. When I went back to work, that was the first thing we started saving for. Now we've got to start saving for college, too!

This post has been edited by zoocrew: 31 March 2012 - 09:59 AM

[Mr.Dis]

You must have missed the inference. If gas had not gone up 2 dollars a gallon and my wife had not lost her job, less than 10 miles from home, and then having to drive twice as far and work for Mich less doing the same job. Had I actually been able to keep up with the COLI that we are seeing now with my own wages. My taking of yet a third job. And my situation is now the norm for MANY Americans. So spare us your cheerleading for this administration. Things have stabilized and there are upticks and down turns right. Now. But things are very iffy at the moment at best. Your own folks keep warning of the downsides to things right now. It OS widely accepted that prolonged gas prices over 4 will do much harm and 4.5 might just push us right back into recession. But go ahead and keep those Obama Zombie blinders on.

[zoocrew]

Mr.Dis, on 31 March 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

You must have missed the inference. If gas had not gone up 2 dollars a barrel and my wife had not lost her job and then having to drive twice as far and work for Mich less doing the same job. Had I actually been able to keep up with the COLI that we are seeing now with my own wages. My taking of yet a third job. And my situation is now the norm for MANY Americans. So spare us your cheerleading for this administration. Things have stabilized and there are upticks and down turns right. Now. But things are very iffy at the moment at best. Your own folks keep warning of the downsides to things right now. It OS widely accepted that prolonged gas prices over 4 will do much harm and 4.5 might just push us right back into recession. But go ahead and keep those Obama Zombie blinders on.

But your situation is not the norm for anywhere near most Americans.

You were the one that said Obama's policies were hurting the economy. So will you give him any credit for the improving economy? My link

The economy is getting better all the time. It doesn't go straight up or straight down. It will continue to improve and have snags along the way. All the information I'm reading says so. $4 gas will not destroy the economy but it could slow it down. Then, after a bit, we'll resoundingly recover and then you'll say $5 gas will destroy us. OK.

The economy is improving. My link

This post has been edited by zoocrew: 31 March 2012 - 10:17 AM

[markdavd]

Anyone feeling better about the economy is doing so because they're anticipating next Jan. when the Failure-In-Chief will be replaced.

[zoocrew]

markdavd, on 31 March 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

Anyone feeling better about the economy is doing so because they're anticipating next Jan. when the Failure-In-Chief will be replaced.

That's not what I'm reading. My link

None of the articles say it has anything to do with anticipation of a change in political power. Can you provide some information to support your claim?

This post has been edited by zoocrew: 31 March 2012 - 11:23 AM

[winston1972]

This is just the calm before the economic S**T storm hits due to derivatives.

[zoocrew]

winston1972, on 31 March 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

This is just the calm before the economic S**T storm hits due to derivatives.

Can you give me a time you predict this will occur?

[winston1972]

zoocrew, on 31 March 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

Can you give me a time you predict this will occur?

Within the next 5-7 years is my guess.

[zoocrew]

winston1972, on 31 March 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

Within the next 5-7 years is my guess.

Thanks!

Now can you explain how derivatives work and how they will bring down the economy? In layman's terms, please, so I can understand it.

[jenilyn]

I can only speak for myself here, but business for us is vastly improving since January. Im giving credit to the collard greens I made on new years day.

[Go BLUE!]

Sorry I attempt to look at this from a realistic manner but these folks must not need gasoline or groceries because I'm looking at my bills for both going through the roof. My company for th firts time in a long time has laid folks off - and we aren't some mom and pop store either.

I'm seeing commodity prices source, and foreclosure rates going up.

I don't feel good about this at all. Do I blame Obama - no, I'm not that stupid, but I'm not feeling good about it.

[winston1972]

zoocrew, on 31 March 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Thanks!

Now can you explain how derivatives work and how they will bring down the economy? In layman's terms, please, so I can understand it.

A derivative is basically a financial insurance policy taken out by a party that has financial interest in something such as bond or a pool of mortgages, loans etc. in the event of a default (credit defualt swap) Problems arose several years back for example when the monoline insurers such as MIA, AMBAC and AIG were unable to cover losses incurred by banks, pension funds etc. when their investments in things such as commercial loans (REITS) and mortgage back securities as defaults rose and ratings agencies downgraded their ratings on these investments pools. They were unable to cover these losses because they were covering via margin or were undercapitalized. Remember when the gov't bailed out AIG? They were making the other side- banks, etc good.

Since these are private contracts, they are grossly unregulated. There was some attempt recently made via Frank Dodd I believe to regulate. However, a large problem with credit default swaps is the naked credit default swap. A naked CDS is nothing short of a bet that something will default and the buyer does not have an interest (own the debt) in what they are speculating on. Many people liken naked credit defaults to buying fire insurance on your neighbors house- you just created an incentive to burn it down.

Here is where the real problems are:

Overall dollar amount of derivatives- quadrillions and the concentration of holdings by just a few banks
Now consider this: The amount of outstanding derivatives exceeds the GDP of every country in the world combined.

Assumption that the other party(parties)can pay in a world where US investment banks and European Banks are leveraged at least 30:1 or more and many US commercial banks, such as Regions are undercapitalized if their loan portfolio holdings were valued at mark to market
The value of the item being insured by the default swap changing.
Basel 3 proposal for mark to market usage.

I'd like to write more and better connect the dots but my 4 yo is driving me crazy to go outside. Bottom line is-- when you think of the derivative exposure $$$$, someone has to pony up per the terms of the contract when a default occurs what happens when they cant? Where did that TARP money go? Why arent banks lending?
The debt crisis in Europe remains very volatile. I don't think Greece is a Black Swan, but if Italy or Spain go the way of Greece, we're going to have a problem.

The banks holding all the derivative exposure are in control of the International Swaps and Derivatives Association that declares when a default situation has occured. There were some issues associated with the Greek bonds recently plenty of people lost plenty of money and yet no money was paid out--

http://news.sky.com/...rticle/16180347

Google is you friend on this topic- There are some very good articles on how the whole house of cards could blow.

[zoocrew]

winston1972, on 31 March 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

A derivative is basically a financial insurance policy taken out by a party that has financial interest in something such as bond or a pool of mortgages, loans etc. in the event of a default (credit defualt swap) Problems arose several years back for example when the monoline insurers such as MIA, AMBAC and AIG were unable to cover losses incurred by banks, pension funds etc. when their investments in things such as commercial loans (REITS) and mortgage back securities as defaults rose and ratings agencies downgraded their ratings on these investments pools. They were unable to cover these losses because they were covering via margin or were undercapitalized. Remember when the gov't bailed out AIG? They were making the other side- banks, etc good.

Since these are private contracts, they are grossly unregulated. There was some attempt recently made via Frank Dodd I believe to regulate. However, a large problem with credit default swaps is the naked credit default swap. A naked CDS is nothing short of a bet that something will default and the buyer does not have an interest (own the debt) in what they are speculating on. Many people liken naked credit defaults to buying fire insurance on your neighbors house- you just created an incentive to burn it down.

Here is where the real problems are:

Overall dollar amount of derivatives- quadrillions and the concentration of holdings by just a few banks
Now consider this: The amount of outstanding derivatives exceeds the GDP of every country in the world combined.

Assumption that the other party(parties)can pay in a world where US investment banks and European Banks are leveraged at least 30:1 or more and many US commercial banks, such as Regions are undercapitalized if their loan portfolio holdings were valued at mark to market
The value of the item being insured by the default swap changing.
Basel 3 proposal for mark to market usage.

I'd like to write more and better connect the dots but my 4 yo is driving me crazy to go outside. Bottom line is-- when you think of the derivative exposure $, someone has to pony up per the terms of the contract when a default occurs what happens when they cant? Where did that TARP money go? Why arent banks lending?
The debt crisis in Europe remains very volatile. I don't think Greece is a Black Swan, but if Italy or Spain go the way of Greece, we're going to have a problem.

The banks holding all the derivative exposure are in control of the International Swaps and Derivatives Association that declares when a default situation has occured. There were some issues associated with the Greek bonds recently plenty of people lost plenty of money and yet no money was paid out--

http://news.sky.com/...rticle/16180347

Google is you friend on this topic- There are some very good articles on how the whole house of cards could blow.

Great. Got it bookmarked. I'll be asking you about this in a few years. Hard to blame Obama when the de-regulation problems are so evident. When did the deregulation happen? And isn't this from private banks, not US politics-government that is causing the problem? Wouldn't that mean we need more regulation of private banks and not less to make sure these sort of problems don't happen again? Who was pushing for more regulation over these sort of things and who opposed it? Isn't it the wealthy corporations/banks/bankers that almost brought us all down last time and doing it all over again? Just want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

And I wanted to make sure I point out that you're linking to an article about Greece, so it would be hard to blame the Obama administration for Greece's problems, no?

This post has been edited by zoocrew: 31 March 2012 - 01:35 PM

[winston1972]

zoocrew, on 31 March 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Great. Got it bookmarked. I'll be asking you about this in a few years. Hard to blame Obama when the de-regulation problems are so evident. When did the deregulation happen? And isn't this from private banks, not US politics-government that is causing the problem? Wouldn't that mean we need more regulation of private banks and not less to make sure these sort of problems don't happen again? Who was pushing for more regulation over these sort of things and who opposed it? Isn't it the wealthy corporations/banks/bankers that almost brought us all down last time and doing it all over again? Just want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.

And I wanted to make sure I point out that you're linking to an article about Greece, so it would be hard to blame the Obama administration for Greece's problems, no?

Article is for informational purposes on derivatives/Greece. I'm all for more regulations on derivatives. And yes it is the large investment banks that are makiing billions selling derivatives such as credit default swaps and then through the ISDA ruling that an event- such as the one with Greece where investors took a 50+% haircut on their Greek holdings and IT WAS NOT RULED A DEFAULT. And yes unless something is done about derivatives, we'll be in the same boat we are in now if not worse in 5-7 years max. The EU is currently to trying to do something about naked CDS. I hope Obama can get something done before the election because Wall Street Romney sure won't.

[mrnn]

winston1972, on 31 March 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Article is for informational purposes on derivatives/Greece. I'm all for more regulations on derivatives. And yes it is the large investment banks that are makiing billions selling derivatives such as credit default swaps and then through the ISDA ruling that an event- such as the one with Greece where investors took a 50+% haircut on their Greek holdings and IT WAS NOT RULED A DEFAULT. And yes unless something is done about derivatives, we'll be in the same boat we are in now if not worse in 5-7 years max. The EU is currently to trying to do something about naked CDS. I hope Obama can get something done before the election because Wall Street Romney sure won't.

but, but...all regulation is bad!!!


Anyway, I didn't read ZC's article but I'm sure it's just talking about how the polls have shifted to show more confidence in the direction of the economy. There are still more people that think we're headed in the wrong direction than the right direction but positive movement is positive movement. The stock market (aka retirement funds) have mostly healed from the crash. Employment is picking up and some folks who gave up on jobs are starting to look again. Obama said from day 1 that this wouldn't all be fixed overnight (not that he needed to say that). Whether one agrees with his policies or the lack of action coming from Congress, the bottom line is that we are most definitely in better shape now than we were when Obama took office. Will he be reelected? Who knows....what we do know is that a failing economy was going to be Romney's main knock on Obama...he's now fallen back to "sure things are improving, but we could've had a stronger recovery by implementing my policies". I guess that's for the voter to believe or not believe.

mrnn

[Jet_man1969]

Rising Fuel Prices are the biggest threat to our recovery, If they don't slow down we all are in trouble!

[STRAWMAN]

zoocrew, on 31 March 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

But your situation is not the norm for anywhere near most Americans.

You were the one that said Obama's policies were hurting the economy. So will you give him any credit for the improving economy? My link

The economy is getting better all the time. It doesn't go straight up or straight down. It will continue to improve and have snags along the way. All the information I'm reading says so. $4 gas will not destroy the economy but it could slow it down. Then, after a bit, we'll resoundingly recover and then you'll say $5 gas will destroy us. OK.

The economy is improving. My link

Maybe instead of reading articles you should talk to people. The majority of people I talk to are either unemployed or underemployed. I have a college degree, a paralegal certification, and a real estate license. I'm making about 15,000 less than I was in 2007 in the same industry. Ive been lucky in that since then ive only been out of work for 1 year in that time, but I have not been earning what I should. And that is the norm with people I talk to. I cant afford a more fuel efficient car because I cant even afford to make needed repairs to my current car. But its paid for, at least I got that going for me. I'm hoping I can start working from home when I get off maternity leave so as to save money on gas costs and daycate. If it goes above 4.00 a gallon I'll be close to losing money to commute into work.

[mrnn]

kwood, on 31 March 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

Maybe instead of reading articles you should talk to people. The majority of people I talk to are either unemployed or underemployed. I have a college degree, a paralegal certification, and a real estate license. I'm making about 15,000 less than I was in 2007 in the same industry. Ive been lucky in that since then ive only been out of work for 1 year in that time, but I have not been earning what I should. And that is the norm with people I talk to. I cant afford a more fuel efficient car because I cant even afford to make needed repairs to my current car. But its paid for, at least I got that going for me. I'm hoping I can start working from home when I get off maternity leave so as to save money on gas costs and daycate. If it goes above 4.00 a gallon I'll be close to losing money to commute into work.

I know one guy who's unemployed (he was just laid off yesterday from his morning radio DJ gig). Out of all my friends, family, acquaintances who found me on Facebook, one guy...that's it. As was mentioned earlier, your own anecdotal story doesn't speak to what's going on this country, just as mine doesn't. Our personal stories aren't at all what the OP's story was about....the OP's story says that more, not most, more people are feeling that the economy is headed in the right direction.


mrnn

[feelip]

I'll feel better about the economy when Barack's narrow ass is headed for Chicago, kickin cans lookin' back.

Maybe it's not all his fault, but people aren't going to spend any real money until he can't get the credit for it.

[Shananigans]

One bright spot for me was since the only money I "made" last year came from unemployment benefits, my daughter is eligible for a Pell Grant for the 2012-2013 school year. Hooray for us! Hooray!

[scuffy]

I agree its the calm before the storm.People are still losing jobs businnes still closing prices still going up.Its made to look like its improving its not.Things are really ggoing to get worse its the end of time.Theres too many drugs,robberies and killings too many unwanted kids.These are not improving they are getting worse.You would be surprised at the kids going into fostercare.How can the economy be getting better?.

[Thoughts]

With gas at $4.00 a gallon and the price transporting goods to market rising along with those gas prices, I can say confidently... HORSECRAP FOR SALE!!! 100% PURE, WEAPONSGRADE HORSECRAP FOR SALE!!! IT COST TO MUCH TO TAKE TO THE STORE TO SELL IT SO YOU'LL HAVE TO SHOVEL IT YOURSELF!!!

[Mr.Dis]

Hey Johnny Jacobs... I see that you hit me with a negative on two posts. Would you care to explain how my feelings on this economy and how it AFFECTS ME somehow warrants a negative?























Nope... Didn't think you would. And the negatives you gave me havenothing to do with what is happening in my life, it is because I don't support your chosen SAVIOR. How DARE I go contrary to what the Obama Zombies proclaim to be the truth. I think that is it in a nutshell.

[Mr.Dis]

I alluded to what happens at $4 and $4.50 /gallon gas earlier. Here is a decent article about it. It takes what many want to put forth as a "we will be just fine" stance and expands on it.

http://www.dailyfina...e-handle-4-gas/



There are many things that will go along with what is discussed in the article that are not addressed either. None of the stats go towards what happens to other goods and services as energy costs rise. The cost of almost everything sold in the US goes up because it must first be transported to the Point of sale and that cost is going up as well. And then you have goods that need supplies brought in to munufacture or produce the good. Just think of the farmer and what he has to do that requires fuel. He has to plow and plant. He has to bring in fertilzer and pesticides. Both of which also have manufaturing costs that are related to energy. He has to tend the crops. He has to harvest the crops. He then has to transport them to market. That is by my count at least 6 steps in which energy prices will be higher forcing the cost of the final good up. AND THAT is not addressed in the article. After energy goes up, goods go up, and that will leave even less room in the family budget for energy. So NO, I do not see things getting better by any real measurement. I see things as having stabilized for now and maybe seeing a little improvement. And one must also remember that many folks that were on UEBs are loosing them due to being timed out.

[gonefromhere]

Mr.Dis, on 01 April 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Hey Johnny Jacobs... I see that you hit me with a negative on two posts. Would you care to explain how my feelings on this economy and how it AFFECTS ME somehow warrants a negative?























Nope... Didn't think you would. And the negatives you gave me havenothing to do with what is happening in my life, it is because I don't support your chosen SAVIOR. How DARE I go contrary to what the Obama Zombies proclaim to be the truth. I think that is it in a nutshell.

A LEFT winger just naturally hits the Neg button if you ain't...

[Johnny Jacobs]

Mr.Dis, on 01 April 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Hey Johnny Jacobs... I see that you hit me with a negative on two posts. Would you care to explain how my feelings on this economy and how it AFFECTS ME somehow warrants a negative?



Nope... Didn't think you would. And the negatives you gave me havenothing to do with what is happening in my life, it is because I don't support your chosen SAVIOR. How DARE I go contrary to what the Obama Zombies proclaim to be the truth. I think that is it in a nutshell.

And a good afternoon to you.

Your posts did not deserve a negative, BUT neither did your posts deserve eight pluses. I would think your posts need to be in a separate topic since they were off topic anyway, but what do I know?

[Mr.Dis]

Johnny Jacobs, on 01 April 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

And a good afternoon to you.

Your posts did not deserve a negative, BUT neither did your posts deserve eight pluses. I would think your posts need to be in a separate topic since they were off topic anyway, but what do I know?

The OP started a topic about HOW Consumers are Feeling Better about Economy. My posts were ABSOLUTELY on this topic, I just happen to disagree. Just because I disagree does not mean I have to start my own topic does it. If it did these boards just might as well be color coded for who posts where. The pluses only go to show that there are a bunch of people that agree with my comments about how I and THEY are doing / feeling in regards to the economy. Negatives would tend to disagree saying that THEY are doing just dandy and that they do not believe that I am telling the truth. You have your right to your own opinion but not the facts. My facts are acurate for myself and it appears many others. It does appear that at least here on Pcom the Consumers are most definately NOT feeling better about the economy.

[zoocrew]

Mr.Dis, on 01 April 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

I alluded to what happens at $4 and $4.50 /gallon gas earlier. Here is a decent article about it. It takes what many want to put forth as a "we will be just fine" stance and expands on it.

http://www.dailyfina...e-handle-4-gas/



There are many things that will go along with what is discussed in the article that are not addressed either. None of the stats go towards what happens to other goods and services as energy costs rise. The cost of almost everything sold in the US goes up because it must first be transported to the Point of sale and that cost is going up as well. And then you have goods that need supplies brought in to munufacture or produce the good. Just think of the farmer and what he has to do that requires fuel. He has to plow and plant. He has to bring in fertilzer and pesticides. Both of which also have manufaturing costs that are related to energy. He has to tend the crops. He has to harvest the crops. He then has to transport them to market. That is by my count at least 6 steps in which energy prices will be higher forcing the cost of the final good up. AND THAT is not addressed in the article. After energy goes up, goods go up, and that will leave even less room in the family budget for energy. So NO, I do not see things getting better by any real measurement. I see things as having stabilized for now and maybe seeing a little improvement. And one must also remember that many folks that were on UEBs are loosing them due to being timed out.

Did you bother to read your own link? The article said that $4 gas was NOT a problem and refuted everything you just said above.

In fact, most of the references say $4 will not hurt the economy like you've said. A few are written by Doomsday Debbies but most say it is not a big deal. My link

This post has been edited by zoocrew: 01 April 2012 - 01:32 PM

[zoocrew]

Mr.Dis, on 01 April 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Hey Johnny Jacobs... I see that you hit me with a negative on two posts. Would you care to explain how my feelings on this economy and how it AFFECTS ME somehow warrants a negative?























Nope... Didn't think you would. And the negatives you gave me havenothing to do with what is happening in my life, it is because I don't support your chosen SAVIOR. How DARE I go contrary to what the Obama Zombies proclaim to be the truth. I think that is it in a nutshell.

What a terribly WRONG assumption.

Just because the reports are the economy is getting better in no way implies an endorsement of Obama. It is simply noting that things are improving. The president has little control of the economy at all (if any at all).

Paint with a broad brush much?

[zoocrew]

Mr.Dis, on 01 April 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

The OP started a topic about HOW Consumers are Feeling Better about Economy. My posts were ABSOLUTELY on this topic, I just happen to disagree. Just because I disagree does not mean I have to start my own topic does it. If it did these boards just might as well be color coded for who posts where. The pluses only go to show that there are a bunch of people that agree with my comments about how I and THEY are doing / feeling in regards to the economy. Negatives would tend to disagree saying that THEY are doing just dandy and that they do not believe that I am telling the truth. You have your right to your own opinion but not the facts. My facts are acurate for myself and it appears many others. It does appear that at least here on Pcom the Consumers are most definately NOT feeling better about the economy.

Maybe that is politics interpreting things and not reality. Things are getting better. Is it for everyone? Of course not. But for most people, it is. That's what the reports say. Maybe it's just the wealthy 1% are getting better and the rest of us aren't. That's a possibility too. Or maybe the Pcom Consumers are letting their disdain for Obama ignore the information and just make a proclamation that the MSM is lying. Or maybe the numbers are real and it is just politics that is choosing to admit it is getting better.

The economy is improving. My link

This post has been edited by zoocrew: 01 April 2012 - 01:09 PM

[The Postman]

You can GIVE some people a paddle, and they would STILL be up sheeze creek without one.

This post has been edited by The Postman: 01 April 2012 - 01:34 PM

[RhondaW]

jenilyn, on 31 March 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

I can only speak for myself here, but business for us is vastly improving since January. Im giving credit to the collard greens I made on new years day.

Gawd, I love you Woman!!!!

[Mr.Dis]

zoocrew, on 01 April 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Did you bother to read your own link? The article said that $4 gas was NOT a problem and refuted everything you just said above.

In fact, most of the references say $4 will not hurt the economy like you've said. A few are written by Doomsday Debbies but most say it is not a big deal. My link

Did you even bother to read it ALL or what I posted?!? I think not

Right here...


"It takes what many want to put forth as a "we will be just fine" stance and expands on it." The article itself delved into that and I expanded even further. But you only see what you want to see. You refuse to even keep a somewhat open mind and actually try to understand the other side of an issue. In short debating you is like trying to reason with a rock.

And when I post how the economy is hurting me you say I should have followed the lead of Europe and did as they did. Well I got some bad news for you.

1. The USA IS NOT EUROPE
2. We do not have the transit system that they do. So even if we wanted to switch to MT we COULD NOT. And it has nothing to do with my own personal actions.
3. I developed my own set of needs in DIRECT correlation to the circumstances that I found myslf in at the time and over the last ohhh 30 years.
4. Since your fellow DEMS trashed the housing market with their "need" to give loans to EVERYONE regardless of ability to pay, (and with the help of many in the GOP), I can't even sell my house to move closer to a job or potential job.

5. Seeing as my wife was employeed for 15 years in this area at the same job and she took the ONLY job offer given to her in over a year. That job pays $8,000 / year less and is over twice as far away.

6. The previous vehicle was what fit us for over 15 years. The new one does not but "will do". Here is the scenario in a nutshell. Went from 10 miles each way to 25. That means roughly going from 20 gal/ week to 50. Then with the cost of fuel doubling as well, that means a 500% increase in fuel costs alone with 8,000 less pay. So we go from $40 / week in fuel to $200 / week in our DIRECT fuel costs ALONE. Then add in EVERY OTHER ITEM at the store going up for the exact same reason. With the cost of fuel increase over 40 and the 8000 / year loss, we are taking home over $16,000 per year less JUST FROM HER job. Now add in mine and that will pretty much wipe out the tax savings.

7. With all that in mind, we had NO CHOICE but to take a direct loss on the vehicle through depreciation and carrying costs of over $15,000 just so that we could actually afford to let her go to work and gain the advantage of a "continuing" paycheck.

I really do not give a rat's but about what you think, I know and all the positive responses to my previous posts and none to yours show that this is the NORM not the exception in your "improving economy".

[Mr.Dis]

zoocrew, on 01 April 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

What a terribly WRONG assumption.

Just because the reports are the economy is getting better in no way implies an endorsement of Obama. It is simply noting that things are improving. The president has little control of the economy at all (if any at all).

Paint with a broad brush much?

Butt in much?!?

If you would bother to try and understand you would realize the fact that JJ and I are on different sides of the political spectrum and our posts to each other were in response to (and somewhat off topic) his continued tossing of negs just because I am on the other side. I'm sorry but it really had very little to do with this topic. Feel free and look back at my negs. If there is one the odss are very high that good ole JJ gave me one.

[Jet_man1969]

Dis, Can you not see the irony in someone who has 3 jobs bitching about the economy?

[zoocrew]

Mr.Dis, on 01 April 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Did you even bother to read it ALL or what I posted?!? I think not

Right here...


"It takes what many want to put forth as a "we will be just fine" stance and expands on it." The article itself delved into that and I expanded even further. But you only see what you want to see. You refuse to even keep a somewhat open mind and actually try to understand the other side of an issue. In short debating you is like trying to reason with a rock.

And when I post how the economy is hurting me you say I should have followed the lead of Europe and did as they did. Well I got some bad news for you.

1. The USA IS NOT EUROPE
2. We do not have the transit system that they do. So even if we wanted to switch to MT we COULD NOT. And it has nothing to do with my own personal actions.
3. I developed my own set of needs in DIRECT correlation to the circumstances that I found myslf in at the time and over the last ohhh 30 years.
4. Since your fellow DEMS trashed the housing market with their "need" to give loans to EVERYONE regardless of ability to pay, (and with the help of many in the GOP), I can't even sell my house to move closer to a job or potential job.

5. Seeing as my wife was employeed for 15 years in this area at the same job and she took the ONLY job offer given to her in over a year. That job pays $8,000 / year less and is over twice as far away.

6. The previous vehicle was what fit us for over 15 years. The new one does not but "will do". Here is the scenario in a nutshell. Went from 10 miles each way to 25. That means roughly going from 20 gal/ week to 50. Then with the cost of fuel doubling as well, that means a 500% increase in fuel costs alone with 8,000 less pay. So we go from $40 / week in fuel to $200 / week in our DIRECT fuel costs ALONE. Then add in EVERY OTHER ITEM at the store going up for the exact same reason. With the cost of fuel increase over 40 and the 8000 / year loss, we are taking home over $16,000 per year less JUST FROM HER job. Now add in mine and that will pretty much wipe out the tax savings.

7. With all that in mind, we had NO CHOICE but to take a direct loss on the vehicle through depreciation and carrying costs of over $15,000 just so that we could actually afford to let her go to work and gain the advantage of a "continuing" paycheck.

I really do not give a rat's but about what you think, I know and all the positive responses to my previous posts and none to yours show that this is the NORM not the exception in your "improving economy".

Do you ever proofread what you type or do you just go off blasting away and then have to apologize later?

The article DID NOT support your assertion. Maybe in your head it does but "expanding on it" implies the article supports your view. It does not support what you said. Grade F on comprehension.

I never said the USA was Europe but that the US is going to have to learn the lesson Europe learned a long time ago. Please try to keep up.

We don't have a transit system like Europe because Europe figured it out 60 years ago and we haven't yet. That is not that hard to understand.

And you're trying to place your anecdotal as the norm for everyone else. That is delusional.

My "fellow DEMS?" Again, assumption. I'm not a DEM. And I disagree with your gross oversimplification of a complicated problem regarding housing.

Job situations change. That is how capitalism works. I'm sorry your situation is what it is but I've hired 15 people in the last quarter, while having to fire 5. That is how the job market works. It also means some people have to drive farther and some will have a shorter commute. That's just the way the jobs work.

We all need to have more economical cars.

I'm sorry your situation is not what most Americans are experiencing or what the numbers say.

Mr.Dis, on 01 April 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

Butt in much?!?

If you would bother to try and understand you would realize the fact that JJ and I are on different sides of the political spectrum and our posts to each other were in response to (and somewhat off topic) his continued tossing of negs just because I am on the other side. I'm sorry but it really had very little to do with this topic. Feel free and look back at my negs. If there is one the odss are very high that good ole JJ gave me one.

You really have anger issues.

You said --- How DARE I go contrary to what the Obama Zombies proclaim to be the truth.

I was responding to that. You used a plural as if I and anyone who believes the reports that things are getting better were an Obama Zombie. Not everyone who reads and listens to the news is an Obama Supporter.

[Georgia Dawg]

The every-increasing fuel costs are not only affecting everyones budget, but it is also impacting almost everything else with increases to food by increasing fuel/transportation costs, higher energy costs to produce just about everything, etc. And with Obama not backing Israel and him taking sides with the Islamic nations in the middle east just adds to the instability. Yes, Obama has some, if not much, of the blame for our current situation. And this whole downfall of our economy was started back when the Democrats took control of the House and Senate, running their 'housing for all' experiment, and failing to pass a budget. This also adds to the instability of our currency in the world market, further creating strain on any chance of an recovering economy. But keep listening to the MSM, keep listening to those blue birds on your shoulder...