If there ever was a situation where there is no right answer this situation is probably it.... I see the kids point of it has always been a tradition and he was involved in that part of it, but the school really has no way of picking and choosing between who "said" what they did or didn't do. I think the school should have sent a clear message years ago that the tradtion of the road was unacceptable and they would nail anyone's arse to the wall they caught. I also see where the kids who did the right thing and came forward will now say if they had it to do over again, they would not have come forward and never would again. I just hope that the kids can get a punishment that will send a clear message but not wreck their lives with a permanent felony record. What a completely screwed up mess...
This post has been edited by All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah: 29 March 2012 - 08:26 PM
All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah, on 29 March 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:
If there ever was a situation where there is no right answer this situation is probably it.... I see the kids point of it has always been a tradition and he was involved in that part of it, but the school really has no way of picking and choosing between who "said" what they did or didn't do. I think the school should have sent a clear message years ago that the tradtion of the road was unacceptable and they would nail anyone's arse to the wall they caught. I also see where the kids who did the right thing and came forward will now say if they had it to do over again, they would not have come forward and never would again. I just hope that the kids can get a punishment that will send a clear message but not wreck their lives with a permanent felony record. What a completely screwed up mess...
Well said. I also don't think you can treat them all the same.
Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!
No offense, but I really couldn't care less whether it was ever acceptable or unacceptable to you. Law is about precedent. LEO, nor school administration, has ever punished students for spraypainting the roadway. Therefore, it is, and has been, perfectly acceptable behavior in the eyes of those who, you know, actually matter in this conversation.
Unless you're implying that each and every law on the books should be punished until the law is revoked? Surely you don't want me to pull up a list of retarded GA laws from the 19th and 20th centuries.
mrnn
Have they ever apprehended anyone who has done it before? If 3 people go in and rob a gas station and manage to get away should the fourth person who gets caught not be prosecuted?
And I don't think defacing property would be referred to as a "retarded law" by most.
I know the family well also for having lived a few doors down from them for years. I have a different opinion.
Yes, Jake is a great kid. Would I do the same for mine? You bet. But, I am sorry. There has to be consequences and just because he is a honor student does not give me a greater right than anyone else here or anyone else charged with a Level 1 offense. They are all good kids. I just hope they, their friends and everyone else at large will learn something.
The county has put themselves in a corner but they have to come down hard. Too bad it is Jake.
Just thinkin, on 29 March 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:
Let me set some of this record straight -- I know this family quite well and known them for years (and yes, I know some of the other kids too).
1. I believe this young man when he says that he only did the road and one letter on the neighborhood sign. I believe him when he says he did tell the school what he saw on his way home that night. I don't think at the time he really thought that what they were doing was illegal and should call the cops. Realisitically folks, who is always at their best judgement at 2am?
2. I do not and will not believe that this kid (or any of these kids) lives should be altered FOREVER because of this incident. That punishment doesn't fit the crime. That's one thing that I've been contemplating lately - not just with regards to this - but our sense of what the punishment should be for various crimes is really out of whack. You all are asking that this young man forever pay the price for a STUPID and, quite frankly, accepted senior prank. Painting the road in front of the school is an ACCEPTED prank. We've had this discussion on this board. As for the neighborhood sign, they fixed the damage and, as I understand, the HOA is not pursuing anything further.
3. Without going into details, the reasons that the tribunal gave this young man for not allowing him back in school were ridiculous. But, at the end of the day, in my humble opinion, the school system has boxed themselves into a corner and now they're trying to save their a$$es in all directions - they can't let these kids back into the school - or the mob will hunt them down and never reelect them. But, they can't kick these kids out because they need them for EPHS graduation rate, test scores, etc. The average GPA of this group is a 4.25.
4. I'm really glad that they are pushing this issue. This kid has 4 AP classes and 2 advanced classes. The theory is that putting them in ombudsman is giving them their education. Well, it's not. You can't replace an AP teacher and class with 3 hours of computer time. The school wants their cake and eat it too.
The fact is that the school system has WAY overreacted to this whole situation (remember - they did $40,000 worth of damage - in the end - $1000 worth of chemicals and the maintenance staff's time, which would have been paid no matter what, for a total of $7500). They can't back down - but they can't screw the school either. In the end, it's young men like this that's going to get screwed for a senior prank that is ACCEPTABLE.
I know the family well also for having lived a few doors down from them for years. I have a different opinion.
Yes, Jake is a great kid. Would I do the same for mine? You bet. But, I am sorry. There has to be consequences and just because he is a honor student does not give me a greater right than anyone else here or anyone else charged with a Level 1 offense. They are all good kids. I just hope they, their friends and everyone else at large will learn something.
The county has put themselves in a corner but they have to come down hard. Too bad it is Jake.
No, they didn't have to come down hard - level 1 offenses have many choices of punishment. Indefinite OSS with diversion to ombudsmen didn't have to be it. But, they aren't willing to differentiate the punishments.
No, they didn't have to come down hard - level 1 offenses have many choices of punishment. Indefinite OSS with diversion to ombudsmen didn't have to be it. But, they aren't willing to differentiate the punishments.
Yes, they did. What message would it send to the following senior classes' if these kids walk away with a slap on the wrist? To me, they have no other choice. I make these decisions constantly with my own kids, and yes, sometimes one will have to be made example of. Sometimes it is the good kid.
The thing I think most of the better then thou on here think you should throw the baby out with the bath water since they did something stupid.
School board is just as bad.
I think they all forget what most of them did when they were kids and how they turned out as has 98% of those that did something stupid when they were under 25.
But we live in 2012 and they still have knee jerk people out there that feel they need to screw the few stupid kids as and example.
Well I bet if one of their kids did something along these lines, then things would turn out differently.
I back the parents with the lawyer as they have nothing to lose and everything to gain since the school board are being just as stupid now as the kids were on that day.
I just always hope that when things like this come back to bite everyone in the arse... Kids and school board .....
Remember that the punishment should fit the crime and be fair......
.When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car" It is time to vote every Paulding elected official out of office and get rid of the good ole boy system.
Do your part and vote them out ! !
Better to have a new clown in the office, then to let the current ones continue to rule.
Yes, because nothing says "bad example being set" like the parents of a freaking valedictorian hiring a lawyer to prevent a harmless school prank from ruining his future.
Some of y'all just consistently put some misplaced definition of pride in front common sense. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
1333071756[/url]' post='3618900']
Yes, they did. What message would it send to the following senior classes' if these kids walk away with a slap on the wrist? To me, they have no other choice. I make these decisions constantly with my own kids, and yes, sometimes one will have to be made example of. Sometimes it is the good kid.
I disagree. No one should be made an example of. They should be punished for their actions, if punishable. If painting the road has always been acceptable, then it should still be acceptable. That shouldn't change because someone else did something stupid,
I never said a slap on the wrist. For these kids, 10 days of OSS would be a nightmare because they are missing classes that move at an exceedingly quick pace. Actually, any of these punishments probably hurt these kids worse than the regular population because their class load is so much more difficult.
I disagree. No one should be made an example of. They should be punished for their actions, if punishable. If painting the road has always been acceptable, then it should still be acceptable. That shouldn't change because someone else did something stupid,
I never said a slap on the wrist. For these kids, 10 days of OSS would be a nightmare because they are missing classes that move at an exceedingly quick pace. Actually, any of these punishments probably hurt these kids worse than the regular population because their class load is so much more difficult.
Painting the road was acceptable until this group took it too far. That is the difference. The administration at EPHS did look the other way because it stayed on the road.
You seem to want to excuse it because they are AP kids more than what they did and this group should have known better because they had more riding on their future. These were suppose to be the best of the best and look how they acted. Disgraceful!
Was this the student who turned himself in? if not then how did the school know he was apart of the prank? do they have cameras pointing in the road? or could it be someone told on him?
This was the student that turned himself in and was told something along the lines if he said who was there he wouldn't get expelled. Whether that is true or not, I don't know, I don't care.
What I care about is, this TRADITION...NOT A PRANK....has been going on for 10 years or so. I'm am against him and the other people getting into trouble for doing the road. Like my son said, if the fools that did the school would come forward and say they did it, and stop taking the one's that didn't do it down with them, then they would be back in school.
I don't blame Mrs. Zimmerman at all for what she is doing. The reason why the school system expelled them is because of the public outcry about it.
It doesn't matter what kind of student they are or what classes they are taking, those kids were in the wrong when they took it to a new level by defacing school property and throwing the benches out in the parking lot. Plain and Simple!
EDIT: Like I said in another thread. The smart kids didn't partake in this event at all.
Painting the road was acceptable until this group took it too far. That is the difference. The administration at EPHS did look the other way because it stayed on the road.
You seem to want to excuse it because they are AP kids more than what they did and this group should have known better because they had more riding on their future. These were suppose to be the best of the best and look how they acted. Disgraceful!
No, I don't want to excuse it because they are AP kids. I'm simply pointing out that these kids have alot more to lose than most. And, that's why there are a variety of punishments. I'm disappointed that the board wouldn't take the time to actually looking into the situation and assign punishments appropriately. Instead, they are punting and handing out one punishment. They have nothing to back themselves up with except heresay. And, yes, they can use heresay. But, at the end of the day, I don't think that the punishment has fit the crime except for the fact that the school still gets credit for their graduation and test scores. Whop-di-do-day. How self serving is that.
No, I don't want to excuse it because they are AP kids. I'm simply pointing out that these kids have alot more to lose than most. And, that's why there are a variety of punishments. I'm disappointed that the board wouldn't take the time to actually looking into the situation and assign punishments appropriately. Instead, they are punting and handing out one punishment. They have nothing to back themselves up with except heresay. And, yes, they can use heresay. But, at the end of the day, I don't think that the punishment has fit the crime except for the fact that the school still gets credit for their graduation and test scores. Whop-di-do-day. How self serving is that.
If you only knew about the school system head honchos at the BOE. They are full of hot air!!
Kim, I hope I said that right. I'm not talking about the board you are on.
If you only knew about the school system head honchos at the BOE. They are full of hot air!!
Kim, I hope I said that right. I'm not talking about the board you are on.
I know some of the BOE head honchos quite well and I don't think that they are full of hot air, but others definitely are. I, frankly, think that they painted themselves into a corner and can't figure out how to get out. I actually feel sorry for some of them. This can't be easy to deal with - this situation, then the Hiram situation, and now all the rumors floating around about principals, teachers, etc. It's been a couple of weeks.
quote name='Just thinkin' hard' timestamp='1333069470' post='3618865']
And, that's the exact lesson that he's learned. The truth will not do. Don't trust anything that authorities tell you. It will only be used against you. Some of these kids are getting SCREWED by association. The fact is that I understand from other sources (not this family) that this whole thing is going to be difficult to prosecute because there's no evidence. It's a whole lot of he said/she said and there's not way to sort it out.
[/quote]
Are the video tapes from the school security cameras that have been shown on the local news not evidence?? From what has been reported it is obvious to the school personnel who the kids are on the tapes.
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I keep reading in all of these threads that it was an unpunished tradition that just got out of hand.
To all of the people that are saying this: do you actually own a home on East Paulding Drive or in one of the subdivisions off of East Paulding? Do you really think that the homeowners that live in that area appreciate having to look at that "artwork" all the time, year after year? Do you really think that homeowners have never complained about it? Maybe it has gone unpunished for so long is because up until now, no one had actually been caught.
1333075647[/url]' post='3618940']
quote name='Just thinkin' hard' timestamp='1333069470' post='3618865']
And, that's the exact lesson that he's learned. The truth will not do. Don't trust anything that authorities tell you. It will only be used against you. Some of these kids are getting SCREWED by association. The fact is that I understand from other sources (not this family) that this whole thing is going to be difficult to prosecute because there's no evidence. It's a whole lot of he said/she said and there's not way to sort it out.
Are the video tapes from the school security cameras that have been shown on the local news not evidence?? From what has been reported it is obvious to the school personnel who the kids are on the tapes.
As I understand, they can't see who did what. They can only see what's being done. Won't hold up in court is what I've been told.
It is easy to see that the apple did not fall far from the tree in this case. Do parents not wonder why their kids do stupid things when they themselves act stupid like this? It's amazing to me.
This post has been edited by nae1060: 29 March 2012 - 10:11 PM
To all of you who think this is just a "harmless senior school spirit prank" I make a challenge.
1. Post your address here and on a printed list that can be provided to the upcoming seniors.
2. Sign a release from prosecution against any of the potential "pranksters".
3. Invite all who wish to show their "senior spirit" to your home for a spray paint party each year.
4. Painting will be limited to the street in front of your house, your driveway, your automobiles and your home.
5. No throwing of lawn furniture will be allowed.
Who will be the first to sign up????? Come on folks, it's just an innocent prank !!!!!!!
After reading most of these replies I'm astounded by the ignorance of some! I have NO love for the the tribunal system or the brainless school board! Having dealt with this group of individuals personally, especially the duncical Nicholas Chester, who thinks the only thing a child misses when being suspended from school is their social life.(And yes, that is exactly what he said). If I were a teacher I would be livid that someone like him is in the position that he is. That is an insult to all who go to work everyday to educate our children. But it is truly parents and BIG government that has caused these boards to overreact in disciplinary situations. You have parents that think schools and teachers are babysitters and think it's the schools problem to fix every situation. They should be only required to teach, nothing more, nothing less! When we as citizens give these people this much control this is what you get! On the other hand, why should the school board not give everyone the same punishment. If you let one young man have a lesser punishment because he is the valedictorian and this could cause him to lose his scholarship, then you then have to take into account every kid involved personal situations. Then the poor child has a case for a lesser punishment, the young black child has a case, the football, basketball, baseball, band and drama members have a case. If the punishment is dealt with equally then there can be no case made that someone was shown favoritism for any reason. For poor little Jake and his parent's, YOUR SON IS NO BETTER THAN ANY OF THE OTHER KIDS INVOLVED! Being valedictorian obviously doesn't make him too smart because he made the same mistake a bunch of other young men and women made. Makes ALL of them pretty equal to me!
I inferred that everyone on the school board was "brainless". I want to apologize to Mr. Skelton! He was always respectful and thoughtful in my dealings with him. Unfortunately when you are on the board with the likes of Nicholas Chester and Joe Watson you tend to get labeled as such!!
To all of you who think this is just a "harmless senior school spirit prank" I make a challenge.
1. Post your address here and on a printed list that can be provided to the upcoming seniors.
2. Sign a release from prosecution against any of the potential "pranksters".
3. Invite all who wish to show their "senior spirit" to your home for a spray paint party each year.
4. Painting will be limited to the street in front of your house, your driveway, your automobiles and your home.
5. No throwing of lawn furniture will be allowed.
Who will be the first to sign up????? Come on folks, it's just an innocent prank !!!!!!!
This goes back to the thread Solo started. Not my little angel baby, my kid deserves special treatment. Blah blah blah. Tough shiit. Deal with it instead of blaming someone else.
Do the students get Student Handbooks still?? You know, the Rules and Regulations, the do's and don'ts. Are they not suppose to read it and turn in a signed sheet stating it was read and that they understood it's content? Aren't the Parents suppose to read it as well? Does it even mention defacing school property and it's consequences if caught? Just curious........
Maybe this would be a good thing to talk about at a Pep Rally, in February? This would be "about" the time that the seniors would be thinking of "school pranks for the senior class." Have a good LONG lecture on, This is WRONG and YOU WILL BE PUNISHED SEVERELY!!! By doing this maybe they will really think about what the consequences will be and it could be nipped in the bud. Just my thoughts.
Do unto others, as you'd have others do unto you!
Live Simply, Love Generously, Care Deeply, Speak Kindly and Leave The Rest To God.
Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does!!
Helping a Neighbor in need, is a Blessing, indeed!!! 04/25/2013
Man, just think of how awesome the last school board meeting would have been if anyone had had the huevos to tell administrators and board members in a public meeting how they thought about the situation instead of hiding behind a screen name and avatar and mouthing off.
This is the legal equivalent of chopping a person's hand off for stealing a candy bar.
Look, I have no problem with these kids spending plenty of time performing community service, reimbursing the school for damages, and paying a substantial fine that would likely result in a temporary financial burden. This would typically be the types of punishments that would be issued for first time offenders who vandalize public property.
But destroying thousands of hours of hard work, and good work at that, for simply spray painting a street and a sign?
Sorry, but at some point as a school official you have to cross the path of 'holier than thou' absolutist policies and pursue the more important foundations that are the young adult's future well being.
We have ALL committed dumb acts in our lives. Heck, when I was 16 I painted a fire hydrant silver on our property. There were things going on in my life back then (one of which was my brother's passing from cancer) and it was an incredibly mindless act. But I still manned up to the incident and cleaned up my own stupidity without having a school system, or a court system, condemn me for such a heinous act.
What do I have to show for all the work and deeds I've pursued since then? A wonderful wife. Two great kids. Happy grandparents. Two degrees from Emory and one from Duke.
I do a lot of good in this world, and enjoy the company of a lot of wonderful folks. Would an expulsion from school resulted in a better life than I have now? I seriously doubt it. Embracing higher education at two of the top institutions in this country is what lead to the stronger callings I have now.
Tell you what folks. I haven't even thought about that 'fire hydrant incident' for well over 20 years. It's obvious that these kids owe a debt to the school and the community. But expulsions, the loss of scholarships, and the wiping away of thousands of hours of good work should not be the penalty for these teenagers.
Let these kids redeem themselves. The world is already loaded with enough damning.
This post has been edited by Steven Lang: 29 March 2012 - 11:59 PM
This whole kids will be kids argument, and the argument that we were all young and stupid at one point is bs. I would never and did never participate in this kind of destructive behavior when I was a teen or at any other point in my life. You know why? Because I was scared to death of what punishment awaited me if my parents ever found out. My parents most certainly would not have hired me a lawyer or made any excuse for such an obviously wrong thing to do. The problem here is that these kids, and aparentky the cream of the crop at EPHS, didn't think there was anything wrong with vadalizing property at 2 am. They must not be very smart if they really thought that behavior was acceptable.
If my child had been in on any part of this, I would hire a good lawyer to see if we could plead the charge(s) down to a misdemeanor since no major damage was done. I would not have the lawyer look at suing the school board in the hopes of getting my kid back in school, EVEN IF I thought the punishment was too harsh or unfair. I would tell my child, hey, life is hard...it's harder if you're stupid. And the sooner you learn that truth, the better off you'll be. I would also let him/her know that as they were out that late (WAY after my curfew) and had reverted to the behavior of a 14-year-old, then I would be treating them like a 14-year-old. (And yes, I know that is insulting to a lot of 14-year-olds.) Whereas I formerly trusted him/her to behave like a civilized adult, I would not be doing that any longer until they proved their maturity to me. Oh, and I would keep track of all expenses, and they would reimburse me for the cost of the lawyer, court costs, etc., and the county and subdivision for whatever their portion of the damages was (even if it took 15 years for me to get my money). I'm a BIG believer in reality discipline. I wouldn't have let them sit in jail for a few days, but I would have let them sit there for more than a few hours to let them think about things.
I think this speaks to the affluence and cushiness of our culture today, where kids float through life with ease. A friend of mine grew up in a poor, single-parent home with NO encouragement from anyone to better herself. She worked full-time from the time she was 16. She went to college, took a full course load and worked 40 hours/week the entire time. She took a semester off to help her mother deal with the illness and death of her new stepfather. She still graduated on time, with honors, with a double major. I can guarantee she wouldn't have been out at 3am spray painting crap. I don't think it's a bad thing or a sin for kids to have a lot of things and opportunities. But when kids with an average GPA of 4.25 think it's ok to cause this much damage, you gotta wonder. I would tell my child, Really? You have a 4.25 GPA, you've been accepted on scholarship to one of the best engineering schools in the country, but you think this is ok? Where did I go wrong?
I have no dog in this fight, so I'm looking at this dispassionately. I come down in the middle on punishment, since nobody was injured, etc. This is why I wouldn't fight the school decision. It is what it is. You decided to pull this stunt, and you can deal with the punishment. And you need to decide for yourself if your not telling who was involved is worth being kicked out of school, the possible loss of a scholarship and acceptance to college, and the pain of being charged with a felony.
I would be very disappointed if my child had participated in this in any way. Not because I don't want kids to have fun, and not because I think this was the worst thing that ever happened. I would just want my kid to be an honorable, upstanding, decent member of society, and somehow, spray painting graffiti (even just on the road) doesn't quite scream honorable, upstanding, decent member of society to me. It screams stupid is what it screams. (And no, I"m not saying these kids will never amount to anything.) Also, it screams a lack of creativity. Seriously? People have been doing this same thing for years, and you couldn't think of something really cool to do that wouldn't have caused any damage but would have made a great/fun impact? :shakingmyhead:
This post has been edited by mei lan: 30 March 2012 - 03:48 AM
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken; William Shakespeare, Sonnet 116
After reading most of these replies I'm astounded by the ignorance of some! I have NO love for the the tribunal system or the brainless school board! Having dealt with this group of individuals personally, especially the duncical Nicholas Chester, who thinks the only thing a child misses when being suspended from school is their social life.(And yes, that is exactly what he said). If I were a teacher I would be livid that someone like him is in the position that he is. That is an insult to all who go to work everyday to educate our children. But it is truly parents and BIG government that has caused these boards to overreact in disciplinary situations. You have parents that think schools and teachers are babysitters and think it's the schools problem to fix every situation. They should be only required to teach, nothing more, nothing less! When we as citizens give these people this much control this is what you get! On the other hand, why should the school board not give everyone the same punishment. If you let one young man have a lesser punishment because he is the valedictorian and this could cause him to lose his scholarship, then you then have to take into account every kid involved personal situations. Then the poor child has a case for a lesser punishment, the young black child has a case, the football, basketball, baseball, band and drama members have a case. If the punishment is dealt with equally then there can be no case made that someone was shown favoritism for any reason. For poor little Jake and his parent's, YOUR SON IS NO BETTER THAN ANY OF THE OTHER KIDS INVOLVED! Being valedictorian obviously doesn't make him too smart because he made the same mistake a bunch of other young men and women made. Makes ALL of them pretty equal to me!
I inferred that everyone on the school board was "brainless". I want to apologize to Mr. Skelton! He was always respectful and thoughtful in my dealings with him. Unfortunately when you are on the board with the likes of Nicholas Chester and Joe Watson you tend to get labeled as such!!
He should receive less punishment because he did less deed. The fact that he's valedictorian and has a scholarship to loose is only evidence that this situation should have been handled with even more care and consideration. They have made no effort (or perhaps can't figure out besides the students' own statements) to figure out who did what. They just knee jerked reacted to the situation. Remember - this started out as $40k in damages when in reality it was about 15% of that. They took kids that have probably never been in the disciplinary system of the school and threw them in, probably knowing that they wouldn't know the ins and outs to figure out how to work the system. In my opinion, the individual punishmenst doesn't fit the individual actions.
Nice Green, on 29 March 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:
Man, just think of how awesome the last school board meeting would have been if anyone had had the huevos to tell administrators and board members in a public meeting how they thought about the situation instead of hiding behind a screen name and avatar and mouthing off.
Thank you - had the conversation with the appropriate county office personnel last Tuesday when I spoke with them regarding a seperate issue.
He should receive less punishment because he did less deed. The fact that he's valedictorian and has a scholarship to loose is only evidence that this situation should have been handled with even more care and consideration.
Or so he says. If nobody's talking, then they don't really know a whole lot, it seems to me. I'm not saying he's a liar...I'm just saying that it seems to me a whole LOT Of information is missing, and if the kids won't cough it up, I don't know how they can do otherwise than treat them all the same.
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken; William Shakespeare, Sonnet 116
Do the students get Student Handbooks still?? You know, the Rules and Regulations, the do's and don'ts. Are they not suppose to read it and turn in a signed sheet stating it was read and that they understood it's content? Aren't the Parents suppose to read it as well? Does it even mention defacing school property and it's consequences if caught? Just curious........
Maybe this would be a good thing to talk about at a Pep Rally, in February? This would be "about" the time that the seniors would be thinking of "school pranks for the senior class." Have a good LONG lecture on, This is WRONG and YOU WILL BE PUNISHED SEVERELY!!! By doing this maybe they will really think about what the consequences will be and it could be nipped in the bud. Just my thoughts.
I was told that the principal has that talk with the students, but around the 1st of April. He said that this year the kids did their senior prank early. He always has the what is and what is not a sr. prank & how much trouble you can get into if involved.
I was told that the principal has that talk with the students, but around the 1st of April. He said that this year the kids did their senior prank early. He always has the what is and what is not a sr. prank & how much trouble you can get into if involved.
Seems to me the seniors should have listened to this talk in April 2009, 2010 and 2011. Do they really deserve 4 warnings about what is a prank and what is not a prank?
Also seems to me if any of these students really felt there was nothing wrong with what they were doing they would have not done it in the dark while dressed in black.
I'm also guessing had anyone been caught painting the intersection in the past they would have been arrested by a Sheriff's Deputy. I just can't imagine a Deputy riding by in years past, seeing the street being painted and thinking that looks like really good kids who have a right to paint the street cause kids paint it every year with no penalty. Or a neighbor calling 911 with a report of street painting in progress and the responding officer reporting to the neighbor, I think that's the senior class president and I certainly don't want to inconvenience him.
I'm older than these kids. I sure think if I decide to slip out in the dark tonight while dressed in black and paint a street I will have a very good chance of being arrested and appearing before a judge.
In the age of "political correctness", I'm surprised this isn't a racial issue. I mean, many of the kids I saw in the videos, the mugshots, and in the interviews look white to me.
In seriousness though, this is an obvious case of "the rules don't apply to me or my kids." I think it's sad that people not only fail to be held accountable for their actions, but that they also fail to accept responsiblity for their failures in parenting. Because that's really what it is, a failure on the parents' part. Like someone else said, the good kids weren't there at all.
I don't feel bad for Zimmerman. I saw the interview on Daddy's back porch. The kid was "grown" enough to make the choice to participate in a crime (NOT A PRANK) he should be grown enough to face the consequences without Daddy holding his hand. If it were my kids, they would have stayed in jail until the court date. If my wife had pulled any of the "protection" jargon that I hear from the other parents, I would be considering divorce.
I was told that the principal has that talk with the students, but around the 1st of April. He said that this year the kids did their senior prank early. He always has the what is and what is not a sr. prank & how much trouble you can get into if involved.
I'd like to know if he actually said in those talks in years past that painting the street in front of the school is acceptable.
Damn, people. God forbid that the punishment fit the crime. God forbid that what was acceptable in the past should be reasonably thought to be acceptable this year. God forbid that the "good" kids that never get to participate in traditional senior activities like the prank participate this year.
We'll just have to remember this in years to come. Throw the book at them. Don't ever think that there might be something else to consider. Don't think past the zero tolerance policy. Don't think about all the other consequences to the punishment. Just throw the book at them.
It's funny - beat the sheeze out of a kid in class - 5 days OSS. Paint the road in a fashion that has always been acceptable - ruin your college career, bankrupt yourself and/or your family, face felony charges, etc. Yeah - somehow this is just SOOOOOOOO fitting of the crime.
Please understand. I do not think that this should go unpunished. The original punishment of 10 days OSS was very appropriate in my mind. It was really going to hurt these kids hard - they were going to miss 10 days of academic instruction and have to make it up on their own (it's not necessairly the graded work - it's the material that they were going to miss before AP exams, etc). They were going to have to do some hard work on their own to keep up without that teacher's instruction (unless you don't think the teachers are actually teaching). That punishment and what the parents were putting in place (clean up, earning funds to repay HOA and school system), not being allowed at prom, all of that was very appropriate in my mind. It's the fact that a couple of days later - the punishment was changed to indefinite OSS with diversion to Ombudsmen that I think is WAY over the line. Really - a kid can beat up someone, can sexually harass someone, can make terroistic threats - and return to the classroom. But, painting the road ends a kid up at ombudsmen and felony charges. REALLY???
How many people think these kids will go on to commit other crimes if they get off easy?
Punishment is supposedly about prevention and rehabilitation.
We know that the criminal justice system has failed at rehabilitation.
We also know that it doesn't often work for prevention.
We definitely should have gone the creativity route on this one, if it was a week in juvenile detention or community service for 6 months.
Parents are fighting and rightfully so for the futures of their children, I said all along that harsh punishment would force parents of these very young people to fight, that we had ways of assuring the kids were punished that no reasonable parent could justify fighting.
If they are a danger to society you take them out of society, these kids but for one mistake are likely to go forward and be an asset to our society and community.
The job of a school system is to send educated and productive people into society at the end of 12 years, there was a mistake made by laughing off a little prank for years. We now see that it was a mistake not just made by the school but by many in the community, that looked the other way. The burden of this mistake should not just fall on the shoulders of a handful of kids. Probably hundreds of kids participated in this activity over the years and went unpunished and was in reality the cause of another group doing it this year.
The goal is prevention not vengeance.
If you know what the ultimate goal is then you will make the right decisions.
Hopefully the school administration and the justice system will adopt the same goal in dealing with this matter.
I know that personally when it came to disciplining my own children it was always to keep in them in line and discourage them from doing wrong, it was never revenge for disobeying me, I always expected them to make mistakes and I did my duty to punish them. I always felt that my punishment was helping my child.
You have to ask are we helping the kids to do better in the future, not just this group but the rest of the kids at that school?
Captain Rhett Butler, on 29 March 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:
I disagree 100%. I feel great whenever a snitch gets an old fashioned beat-down. Snitches get stitches! I've told mine to NEVER talk to the po-po under any circumstances!
For some reason it's not letting me vote you down.But if I could I'd do it more than once! Would that still be your opinion if your child was beaten or robbed and someone witnessed it? Wouldn't you want someone to step forward??? You have a serious problem!!!
Help
feelip, on 29 March 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:
Promote to Article
Believe me when I say you didn't get a cherry.
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