Well said. I worry for some of these young adults. If they do something stupider later in life they are in for a rude awaking when Mommy & Daddy are not allowed by the legal system to bail them out again.
When I was their age (18) I was just as stupid. I ignored all traffic laws and got too many tickets. The state took my drivers license for 1 solid year before they would give me a review hearing 100 miles away at the state capital. There 1 year later they gave me 1 point to drive on for 2 years after a 2 hour review hearing.
That was over 40 years ago. The state did not give a rip when they took my license. They could care less that I had to walk 2 miles to work and my mom & dad had to drive me 10 miles back and forth to college. My mom and dads insurance company had no compassion when they cancelled the family car insurance. My dad was retired and got put on SR 22 because of me. The finance company gave me no slack on my car either. They impounded it because I did not then not have insurance on it. The day the state took my license they called the insurance company and lein holder. My dad paid my car off, had it towed home and sat it on blocks for a little over a year. That's the way SC did it back in the 70's. I grew up in a small community where all the law enforcement officers knew I did not have a license. If any one of them had caught me driving I would have went to jail and stayed in jail till they were good and ready to let me out.
Today people would be outraged the way my case was addressed. I too felt like life gave me an unfair blow. But today I realize the state actually taught me a valuable lesson. Where I got 4 or 5 traffic tickets in 2 years, I now get 1) about every 20 years because they taught me to abide by the laws.
Seems to me the definition of intitlement has changed in 40 years. Today many feel they are intitled to have all joys and benefits given to them that life has to offer. 40 years ago we were intitled to a good life as long as we followed the rules and made it on our own.
My understanding is the families are fighting a felony conviction. A felony conviction follows you for life. Many corporations have rules against hiring people with felonies. They will not make exceptions because it was a high school prank that got out of hand. Smaller businesses that you might apply for won't put forth the money or the effort to research your claim that it was a high school prank.
Applications that say felony get filed in the round hole immediately.
I think kids have a pretty good idea about the big stuff, assault, murder, rape, pushing drugs, spray painting I am not sure that it occurred to them their lives could be ruined over it.
As many have said let the punishment fit the crime.
The state probably saved your life and others by taking your car, we are looking at destroying lives.
I have not heard anyone say not to punish these kids, everyone wants them punished, it is the degree that they are being punished that people are distressed over.
I just seen a clip on the news were the parents of a senior has hired a lawyer and fighting the school for the possible loss of his scholarship... coming up on channel 2 the parents do not think it is fair for their son to loose his status and be kicked out of school for a school prank.
just seen the rest of the news clip, it is the valedictorian of EPHS
Here above is the portion of the episode I intended to be responding too.
On the subject of felonies. I do not think with the programs and systems already in place to help first time offenders avoid life time problems, such as pretrial deversion programs I really do not see these charges standing as felonies, unless someone already was on probation for earlier unrelated charges. Now I've been fairly open I think these young adults were stupid going out in the dark, dressed in black and committing these crimes. If one or more happen to already be on probation... Then in my opinion that person(s) was REALLY stupid.
I just think about the statistic in Georgia's Department of Corrections.
Over 60% of convicted felony offenders in Georgia will repeat.
Stick all these kids with a felony, and you can pretty much assume that over half will, for the rest of their lives, be in and out of the system.
The only example that should be made is about the Paulding BOE who's only policy that has been standard for past 30 years is whatever sounds good coming out of their mouth at the time they said it.
The expelled students should be allowed the due process of the law, and if parents take the notion to sue because their kids was less involved than the others, more power to them, it's their right.
I'd prefer to see these kids learn from this rather than have to live with it the rest of their lives.
Sometimes in our senior years the first things to go are bladder control and the filter on our political bent. Stop bringing current political and social events into my insular little world. You're harshing my escapism mellow.
So, you're saying you've taught your kids NOT to cooperate if they are ever questioned by the police. Isn't this the same as lying?????
I don't understand your logic.
It's not lying if you keep your mouth shut. Under the law, you have the right to remain silent. I've told my folks to NEVER talk to the police. The police act like they'll take it easy on you if you speak, but they're lying through their teeth. Been there, done that!
I've always thought a good lashing with a buggy whip would benefit you immensely.
(Rhett Butler speaking to Miss Scarlett)
My understanding is the families are fighting a felony conviction. A felony conviction follows you for life. Many corporations have rules against hiring people with felonies. They will not make exceptions because it was a high school prank that got out of hand. Smaller businesses that you might apply for won't put forth the money or the effort to research your claim that it was a high school prank.
Applications that say felony get filed in the round hole immediately.
I think kids have a pretty good idea about the big stuff, assault, murder, rape, pushing drugs, spray painting I am not sure that it occurred to them their lives could be ruined over it. As many have said let the punishment fit the crime. The state probably saved your life and others by taking your car, we are looking at destroying lives.
I have not heard anyone say not to punish these kids, everyone wants them punished, it is the degree that they are being punished that people are distressed over.
And it is, the current laws state what is a felony and what is a misdemeanor. The laws weren't written to discriminate between a prank and a malicious act. They were written with a level of damage incurred. These so called kids (interesting on how they are called kids for this but for other things they would be called young adults on here) went above the level that incurs a felony. And the punishment fits the felony crime.
I fantasize about my dogs having jobs. I pretend that both of them are window cleaners and their kennel is their first starter home. I think the bigger dog is trying to bump off the smaller dog so he can have the kennel to himself. I know I have a problem, but don't animals have to earn a living too?
Dogs may not be our whole lives, but they make our lives whole.
A dog is not "almost human" and I know of no greater insult to the canine race than to describe it as such.
The more I see of humans, the more I admire dogs.
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader.
He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
The dog is a gentleman, I hope to go to his heaven, not man's.
Very sad to say, but this is the right thing to do. Keep your rights and don't give them away just because you think the police officer will go easy. He does not have that right and most likely will take the high road and let the system do as it wishes. So in the long run, keep your mouth shut and keep your rights.
Captain Rhett Butler, on 31 March 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:
It's not lying if you keep your mouth shut. Under the law, you have the right to remain silent. I've told my folks to NEVER talk to the police. The police act like they'll take it easy on you if you speak, but they're lying through their teeth. Been there, done that!
.When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car" It is time to vote every Paulding elected official out of office and get rid of the good ole boy system.
Do your part and vote them out ! !
Better to have a new clown in the office, then to let the current ones continue to rule.
Your child is playing outside and your neighbor's child is playing across the street. A strange car pulls up and some one gets out, grab's your neighbor's child, tosses him/her in the car and speeds off. Your child is apparently the only witness to what happened.
When the parents realize the child is missing, they search the neighborhood, then call the cops, who start asking neighbors if anyone saw anything. At that point, your child tells you what they saw. They can describe the car and can describe what the alleged abductor looked like.
You would not give this information to the police and tell your child to keep quiet about what he saw?
Your child is playing outside and your neighbor's child is playing across the street. A strange car pulls up and some one gets out, grab's your neighbor's child, tosses him/her in the car and speeds off. Your child is apparently the only witness to what happened.
When the parents realize the child is missing, they search the neighborhood, then call the cops, who start asking neighbors if anyone saw anything. At that point, your child tells you what they saw. They can describe the car and can describe what the alleged abductor looked like.
You would not give this information to the police and tell your child to keep quiet about what he saw?
Apparently, that is exactly how some people feel. I just hope that these same people are never in the position where they need someone to step forward in their favor.......REMEMBER........snitches get stitches! How stupid is that?
To all of you who think this is just a "harmless senior school spirit prank" I make a challenge.
1. Post your address here and on a printed list that can be provided to the upcoming seniors.
2. Sign a release from prosecution against any of the potential "pranksters".
3. Invite all who wish to show their "senior spirit" to your home for a spray paint party each year.
4. Painting will be limited to the street in front of your house, your driveway, your automobiles and your home.
5. No throwing of lawn furniture will be allowed.
Who will be the first to sign up????? Come on folks, it's just an innocent prank !!!!!!!
Hmmmmmmmmmmm......... Just as I expected. Not a single person has signed up !!!!! Where's the understanding & compassion or are you folks just a bunch of hipocrites??
Hmmmmmmmmmmm......... Just as I expected. Not a single person has signed up !!!!! Where's the understanding & compassion or are you folks just a bunch of hipocrites??
We are soooo impressed how you can make a point...
Point is that the parents have the right to lawyer up. Good grief. Let it go. Life is too short to be worrying about something as insignificant as this.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm......... Just as I expected. Not a single person has signed up !!!!! Where's the understanding & compassion or are you folks just a bunch of hipocrites??
If the painting of the road has been happening in front of my house for the past ten years and I hadn't done anything about it for the last ten years, I wouldn't have to post my address. !
And, just to be clear - it's hypocrites. No animals were involved in the commission of the senior prank or in the commission of the crimes (which are two very, very different events).
But you know, I'm going to be surprised if any of these kids ends up with a felony conviction. I suspect that when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, the county will charge them with something different then work out deals.
I agree with you fully. The DA will probably work out a deal to "reduce charges to misdemeanor", which happens "quite often in this county.
But not before a expensive lawyer an threats of an expensive jury trial that could go either way and would make the DA look bad if he lost and a mostly decent jury that would agree that a felony charge is over board.
P.S.
I am a DA's nightmare, because I am among the few that don't fully trust the legal system and give more weight towards the defendant then the legal system. ....
And the sad thing is that more and more people feel the same way I do. To those that think the system is perfect and weeds out the good guy and bad guy.... tell that to those that were innocent and spent years on death row....... when you look at those percentages and then the total population in prison.... tells me there are thousands in jail that are totally innocent and there are DA's that put those people there.....
So if you totally trust the system....your very naive.
bpdirector1, on 01 April 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:
I agree with you fully. The DA will probably work out a deal to "reduce charges to misdemeanor", which happens "quite often in this county.
This post has been edited by NavyEagle#1: 01 April 2012 - 08:54 PM
.When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car" It is time to vote every Paulding elected official out of office and get rid of the good ole boy system.
Do your part and vote them out ! !
Better to have a new clown in the office, then to let the current ones continue to rule.
[quote name='kwood' timestamp='1333065569' post='3618816']
A good teenager wouldn't be vandalizing the street. It's still illegal to spray paint the street.
[/
IT'S CALLED TRADITION! It's one of those laws that are mostly overlooked if it is not done in a malicious way. Painting the road has always been done at EPHS as far back as I can remember. Jacob Zimmerman and another friend left the area when it was realized that more was going to happen. Jacob is a good boy from a good family. He would never purposely destroy someone else's property like that.
IT'S CALLED TRADITION! It's one of those laws that are mostly overlooked if it is not done in a malicious way. Painting the road has always been done at EPHS as far back as I can remember. Jacob Zimmerman and another friend left the area when it was realized that more was going to happen. Jacob is a good boy from a good family. He would never purposely destroy someone else's property like that.
[/quote]
Just because it is a tradition does not make it legal, right, or acceptable behavior. I don't know what the size of the senior class at ephs is, but it looks like a vast majority of the class had enough sense to know its something they shouldn't have participated in. Those kids can rest easy at night knowing that they ar going to walk at graduation with their class and not risk their college acceptance. Too bad these "good kids" didn't have enough sense to stay home. In the end these kids will face little to no legal punishment from the da, and they are still elligible to graduate. Its not the end of the world, its a valuable life lesson.
Dick Donovan, the Paulding district attorney, disagreed, saying the 22 students and two recent graduates were “parties to a crime” and could be charged together regardless of each person’s role or intent.
If you ask me, his name definetly describes him. Blah Blah Blah ruin everyone's life over spray paint. It doesn't matter if you did it or not, You are still in Big trouble mister.
LIfe would be so much easier if people acutally used their brains.
Every time I time I read these threads about this I keep picturing an old time western were a guy pushes his hat back, spits tobacco and says yep hang um high boys
I agree with what Gapeach said its been a tradition for years...
Its been a tradition for a while and who would have ever thought that this yr. anyone would get in trouble for painting Seniors and the yr on the road. Its if front of the school & not directly in front of any ones house & lots of schools have different things painted in the road in front of the school, School name, paw prints, etc...
I do believe that any painting of the school sign, building, vehicles, and anyone else's property was WRONG.
All the other kids could say I just paintd the road. What would they do then?
Look at the video. They shouldn't lie under oath either. Or they will have a hung jury. I'd be so upset if someone said I was there and I did something and I didn't. Then I get a horrible punishment for doing nothing. Not fair. The right answer is for the school to drop all charges and make the kids/parents pay for the damage. Even if I didn't do it and had to pay $500 and it is over, I would.
Look at the video. They shouldn't lie under oath either. Or they will have a hung jury. I'd be so upset if someone said I was there and I did something and I didn't. Then I get a horrible punishment for doing nothing. Not fair. The right answer is for the school to drop all charges and make the kids/parents pay for the damage. Even if I didn't do it and had to pay $500 and it is over, I would.
They "shouldn't" deface public property either, but they did.
Every time I time I read these threads about this I keep picturing an old time western were a guy pushes his hat back, spits tobacco and says yep hang um high boys
Seriously, the more I read these posts and many opinions in the news, I feel we have regressed 100 years.
IT'S CALLED TRADITION! It's one of those laws that are mostly overlooked if it is not done in a malicious way. Painting the road has always been done at EPHS as far back as I can remember. Jacob Zimmerman and another friend left the area when it was realized that more was going to happen. Jacob is a good boy from a good family. He would never purposely destroy someone else's property like that.
I drive 83 mph on I-75 on my weekly commute to Chattanooga, and do it for extended periods of time every week. Hell, it's become a tradition. When or if I get a speeding ticket from GSP, I'm going to use your argument. I wasn't being malicious, I've been a speeder as far back as I can remember, and everybody else does it. I'm a good guy with a great wife and my parents were God-fearing. I wasn't purposely speeding to cause anybody any problems. It's just a tradition.
DO YOU SEE HOW STUPID THE "TRADITION" ARGUMENT IS?
The fact that PCSO never did catch the previous 8 or 10 sets of CRIMINALS that defaced a public roadway makes this year's batch no less guilty.
Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist".
Look at the video. They shouldn't lie under oath either. Or they will have a hung jury. I'd be so upset if someone said I was there and I did something and I didn't. Then I get a horrible punishment for doing nothing. Not fair. The right answer is for the school to drop all charges and make the kids/parents pay for the damage. Even if I didn't do it and had to pay $500 and it is over, I would.
It all boils down to one thing. If he is as smart as they say he is, he wouldn't have been there. Does he have real proof of what time he was at home? Did he go home and tell his parents what he had done, or did he wait until the police got into it before he told?
These kids need to use their heads for something , not just to separate their shoulders.
I drive 83 mph on I-75 on my weekly commute to Chattanooga, and do it for extended periods of time every week. Hell, it's become a tradition. When or if I get a speeding ticket from GSP, I'm going to use your argument. I wasn't being malicious, I've been a speeder as far back as I can remember, and everybody else does it. I'm a good guy with a great wife and my parents were God-fearing. I wasn't purposely speeding to cause anybody any problems. It's just a tradition.
DO YOU SEE HOW STUPID THE "TRADITION" ARGUMENT IS?
The fact that PCSO never did catch the previous 8 or 10 sets of CRIMINALS that defaced a public roadway makes this year's batch no less guilty.
And it is, the current laws state what is a felony and what is a misdemeanor. The laws weren't written to discriminate between a prank and a malicious act. They were written with a level of damage incurred. These so called kids (interesting on how they are called kids for this but for other things they would be called young adults on here) went above the level that incurs a felony. And the punishment fits the felony crime.
THIS!!! It is what it is. These kids need to learn to deal with it. As I said, yes, I would hire a lawyer (for which child would reimburse me in time) to get the charge pled out to a misdemeanor. But it is what it is.
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken; William Shakespeare, Sonnet 116
My son is a senior this year at SPHS and has a scholarship. When he saw this story on the news he rolled his eyes and said "Just how dumb are they at EPHS?" He completely backs what they are being charged with. I asked him what a senior prank would be to him and he said things like changing the wording on the sign in front of the school, turning all the signs in the school upside down, and he listed a few more, none criminal. I asked him if he planned to join in on any and he said, "No, I've outgrown all that". But then he turned 18 back in September.
Everyone keeps talking about how these kids are honor students, but would everyone be so outraged at the punishment if they were just "regular" students or even some who were known to get in trouble from time to time? In other words, is it the "prank" or is it the fact it is the "good" kids who did it?
My son is a senior this year at SPHS and has a scholarship. When he saw this story on the news he rolled his eyes and said "Just how dumb are they at EPHS?" He completely backs what they are being charged with. I asked him what a senior prank would be to him and he said things like changing the wording on the sign in front of the school, turning all the signs in the school upside down, and he listed a few more, none criminal. I asked him if he planned to join in on any and he said, "No, I've outgrown all that". But then he turned 18 back in September.
Everyone keeps talking about how these kids are honor students, but would everyone be so outraged at the punishment if they were just "regular" students or even some who were known to get in trouble from time to time? In other words, is it the "prank" or is it the fact it is the "good" kids who did it?
I don't care if they were "good" kids or not unless they had a prior history of doing this act, but if it was a first offense the punishment shouldn't be life changing (which a felony would be). Drunk drivers get their behavior pled down to misdemeanors all the time with a good attorney and that is a horrendously dangerous act, why should these kids not get the same benefit of being able to plead down for a first time act? Some of these people are ridiculous with the hang 'em at high noon philosophy....
Punishment, YES, and a very hard one to reinforce the point, but felony conviction. Nope. That is what has a lot of people upset.
This post has been edited by All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah: 02 April 2012 - 03:33 PM
The lawyer may have a case against the school system if he argues that the spray painting of the street became acceptable behavior and no students have been punished for the act in the past. Past precedence comes into play here, provided that there is evidence that this student only spraypainted the street. I think it's a battle worth fighting, and if it's my kid, I'd fight the mess out of it.
As far as the criminal charges, I don't know where that stands, because the legal system has its own jacked up rules.
Either way, some of you are a''holes. Straight up.
workingforaliving, on 02 April 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:
The lawyer may have a case against the school system if he argues that the spray painting of the street became acceptable behavior and no students have been punished for the act in the past. Past precedence comes into play here, provided that there is evidence that this student only spraypainted the street. I think it's a battle worth fighting, and if it's my kid, I'd fight the mess out of it.
As far as the criminal charges, I don't know where that stands, because the legal system has its own jacked up rules.
Either way, some of you are a''holes. Straight up.
I'm not sure who you are referring to as a''holes but the students broke a law. The "one" you are talking about may have been more involved then you know but he was definitely in the "mob". There are some people who said he was on school grounds.
Since we don't know the others who got away then I'm sure that a good group of you would agree that we should punish the entire senior class at EPHS. It's the only way to be sure.
Sometimes in our senior years the first things to go are bladder control and the filter on our political bent. Stop bringing current political and social events into my insular little world. You're harshing my escapism mellow.
I'm not sure who you are referring to as a''holes but the students broke a law. The "one" you are talking about may have been more involved then you know but he was definitely in the "mob". There are some people who said he was on school grounds.
My point, since you missed it, was that the school issue and the criminal issue are to be handled seperately and were this MY child, I would be doing exactly what these parents are doing. I don't know any more than what I've seen in interviews with the family and from reputable news sources.
Any parent worth a crap would fight for their kid....particularly if they worked hard, made good grades, and had a bright future. I'd like to think that it would take SOOOOO much more than one stupid night for parents to turn their backs on their kid.....love being unconditional n' all.
Anyone who took offence to my statement about being a''holes is probably "some of you" to which I was referring.
workingforaliving, on 02 April 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:
My point, since you missed it, was that the school issue and the criminal issue are to be handled seperately and were this MY child, I would be doing exactly what these parents are doing. I don't know any more than what I've seen in interviews with the family and from reputable news sources.
Any parent worth a crap would fight for their kid....particularly if they worked hard, made good grades, and had a bright future. I'd like to think that it would take SOOOOO much more than one stupid night for parents to turn their backs on their kid.....love being unconditional n' all.
Anyone who took offence to my statement about being a''holes is probably "some of you" to which I was referring.
I completely agree that the parents get their kids a good lawyer but I also would want my child to learn that this type of behavior is not what we want. I would hope the punishment will be such that they will regret their acts but not destroy their future.
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