Dis jr. is only 9 but he is totally wearing me and the rest of the family out. Let me first state that I do love my son and have been fighting this battle for 6 years now. We have done counselling, medication, special classes and even diets. But the long and short of things right now are basically if he is getting things the way he wants them and on time, things can be pretty decent. But we all know that life is full of things we do not want to do as well as mishaps and other things that just pop up. His temper is really getting the best of him. Yesterday he thought his sister and a friend left the yard (which they did not) without him. He went and grabbed her Nintendo 3DS and smashed "just because" he got upset. Things like this are nothing new around here. I continually find things broken / destroyed because he was angry over some little thing. He has already kicked a hole in his bedroom wall. All of the things that he does out of anger pale in comparison to the general Hell he puts us through daily. He knows no boundries. "NO" only means no until he either figures out a way around you are until your alertness drops due to time or distraction and then he will just take advantage and do it then. I have already found several instances where he tries to sneak something off and caught him 1,2,3 or even more times. Punish away... it won't matter. Then only to find that at SOME POINT he did actually manage to get it past you for the moment. 3 times last week he got caught setting fires... IN THE HOUSE OR RIGHT NEXT TO IT!!! We can't get him to do ANY form of homework without major altercations. He has zero compasion for anyone or anything that does not directly and immediately benefit himself. Ican literally clean the living room and go to the kitchen to clean it and before I'm done, the living room looks as bad or worse than it did to begin with. Here is a picture of his room. I treat it as a "no man's land" I don't go in it unless I have to. This picture represents about 1 weeks worth of "play". Oh Yeah... he wants it clean and will bug the crap out of you to "help" him clean it. But while you are "helping" he will be off causing chaos elsewhere.
Well the picture isn't working right now, I'll try later.
So I know about the law in overview but have no practical experience. Has anyone had any experience with that law and its use? Or does anyone have any other advise other than "beating" the child. You can rest assured, EVERY conceivable punishment has been thought of and used. If I beat him anymore DEFACS will probably get involved. I learned long ago SPANKINGS DO NOT WORK FOR HIM. They just piss him off and he will do something evil because he is now pissed off. And the cycle will repeat.
I literally do not know what to do with this kid or how to get across to him. He even asked me last night why I am so mean to him and nice to his sister. !!!! ALARM HAS BEEN DULY NOTED!!! Son... If you would only listen and do as we ask while keeping your temper in check, then you would be treated the same way.
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I am assuming this is an issue at school too, have you spoke to the counselors and asked if there are any type of boot camps for his age group? You sure as hell don't want him entering the teen years like this.... Good luck, I cannot imagine how hard this must be....
Look up a blog called The Bodie Bunch. It's a friend's blog - she has many adopted children - some of them have the issues that your son is dealing with. Her blog (or email her) may give you some insight, comfort, leads, etc.
I can only suggest professional counseling, you may have had him in counseling and it did not help.
Sometimes you have to find the right counselor just like you have to find the right MD. or Dentist.
I took all my children to counseling after their father died, we always want to think that we are the one's to meet our child's needs, this is not always true many times we make things worse because we don't have it in us, we are who we are and our children are not clones of us.
The bottom line is about helping the child no matter what it takes and it may take a person outside of the family to do it.
All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah, on 19 March 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:
I am assuming this is an issue at school too, have you spoke to the counselors and asked if there are any type of boot camps for his age group? You sure as hell don't want him entering the teen years like this.... Good luck, I cannot imagine how hard this must be....
Yes, He is in a special class at a whole different school than our home school. They group them at "regional" school levels. They draw from 3 or 4 of the same schools and group them all together for one class. Only about 6 in his class.
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I am sure that you have talked to doctors about his behaviors. It sounds like you have tried it all. Can I ask you if he is diagnosed with any neurologic issues? I don't mean to pry or be nosey but that is the first thing that comes to my mind as I read your post. I know that autism for example can, not always, cause behavior problems.
I am sure that you have talked to doctors about his behaviors. It sounds like you have tried it all. Can I ask you if he is diagnosed with any neurologic issues? I don't mean to pry or be nosey but that is the first thing that comes to my mind as I read your post. I know that autism for example can, not always, cause behavior problems.
He is ADHD and ODD. Oppositional Defiance Disorder. That is the one that is KICKING OUR COLLECTIVE BUTTS. He does not do "NO" or "Yes" if it goes contrary to his wishes. He takes meds now and has been seeing the counselor. We started with a new one this year because of insurance. All I can say right now is that at 18 either he or I will be leaving this house. I will not live with him any longer unless his attitude corrects. And you better believe he will not be getting a license until his 18th year. I will not be responsible for putting a driver on the road with that attitude. And even then he will have to get his own license, car and insurance.
Ref. the picture. That was taken after an hours worth of work just getting into the doorway. I'm meticulus and it took me that long to sort "legos" from junk as it were. That was about 6 PM. I got the Garbage, And I do mean just garbage, together and bagged for pickup this morning at about 10 PM. And that was just doing it quick after I got into the room.
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Sounds exactly like my younger brother. There is an 11 yr difference b/n us. 15 yrs ago my mom went through the same thing with him and he was diagnosed with ADD. Was on meds for quite awhile, but my mom took him off of them and he went right back to destroying and acting out. Now that he is an adult, it just baffles me how for some reason in his mind, the rules of life don't pertain to him. Keep on your son. Just don't make excuses for him like my sis and I believe our mom did or does for our brother
"I already have a guilty conscience, might as well have the money to"
I would have to strip the room for my own sanity, honestly this is terrible I don't know how I would cope since like you I am meticulous and neat I am afraid I would be constantly out of control living like this.
I am curious if he shows affection and emotional attachment to the family?
Edited because apparently my situation doesn't relate, although I feel it does on many levels (though not nearly as extreme.)
I read the other responses after talking to my aunt who is a child psycotherapist in another state. She works with children who have severe issues, many of whom have already been placed in the group home enviroment. When I read her your post, she said first of all, you are a proactive parent who is doing all the "right" things. Secondly, her recommendation is similar to the others in the suggestion to seek therapy for him individually and the family as a whole before considering the group home option. Finally, she wanted me to relay that much of her work involves counseling children who's issues are compounded by feelings of abandoment by their parents after they get to the level of needing placement in a home. She said that by that time, the parents "check out" mentally and in many cases, the children are left to the system. She said if you feel you're at that point, try to seek programs that include the family in therapy and programs that prepare your family members at home for the return of the child into the unit. Those programs help to ensure success when the child returns home. She says its important to realize that children who do end up in inpatient therapy often feel isolated and alienated when they return, and often regress into more severe behavioral issues.
Prayers for you and the Mrs. I feel the frustration in your words...and the love for your son. I read down below where you were worried about the reflection on your name, which I disagree. It seems you are an amazing parent who is actively seeking a loving solution.
This post has been edited by Magic Mommy: 19 March 2012 - 11:34 AM
I would have to strip the room for my own sanity, honestly this is terrible I don't know how I would cope since like you I am meticulous and neat I am afraid I would be constantly out of control living like this.
I am curious if he shows affection and emotional attachment to the family?
That is exactly what I thought, all of it would be gone but a bed a few sets of clothes and that's it.
I literally do not know what to do with this kid or how to get across to him. He even asked me last night why I am so mean to him and nice to his sister. !!!! ALARM HAS BEEN DULY NOTED!!! Son... If you would only listen and do as we ask while keeping your temper in check, then you would be treated the same way.
This breaks my heart when I hear it. When one asks why I'm so mean to them and not the others, but they don't listen when I explain why.
The other thing i forgot to say was that my main connection with your story was the discpline being taken as a joke and the fact that "no" does not compute. My son has taken to screaming at me when I say "no", which is embarrassing even at home because he's old enough and mentally capable enough to understand why I said no.
I've already rented a strage unit. My short term goal is to remove everything from his room except his mattress, linens, pillow and a dresser with no mirror for his clothing. I will also apply plywood over the sheetrock to protect it from his tantrums. If he gets his act together, we may try to "improve" his living conditions. I should also note that he still refuses to sleep in his room and sleeps on the floor of our bedroom everynight. So yeah... you're right, there is NO private time for my wife and I to speak of. He won't even go to bed until she does! And if she gets up, so does he. But not in the mornings.
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I worked with someone whose grandson had similar problems. Their problems were not nearly as drastic as yours. He has a type of autism. However, even the adults are nervous around him because he threatens everyone with harm. I cannot imagine what I would do. Unfortunately, it sounds like your family and home are not safe. I would start tearing apart the internet for ideas and suggestions and groups.
One thing I've learned from my friend - her son's and one daughter's behaviors (that revial this and exceed this) are not CHOICES that they are making. Really, I don't think this issue is about an incorrigible child. I think there is something physically and chemically wrong with him.
Why do I point this out? Because I think it's important that you understand that you haven't done anything wrong as a parent. This behavior isn't normal. This isn't on the scope of normal.
My friend has one sibling group that all developed bipolar, ODD, etc as they went through puberty. Two are in jail and two are in permanent residential psychiatric care. The family visits twice a month together. But, she can never allow any of them to come home again. She has other children that she needs to protect. And, that may be the road that you are on. You need to take care of ALL of the family, not just him. It's a harsh statement. But, it's the reality.
About the only thing I can suggest is taking everything from his room except the basics, but I'd be worried he'd take or break things in his sister's room when you do.
I fantasize about my dogs having jobs. I pretend that both of them are window cleaners and their kennel is their first starter home. I think the bigger dog is trying to bump off the smaller dog so he can have the kennel to himself. I know I have a problem, but don't animals have to earn a living too?
Dogs may not be our whole lives, but they make our lives whole.
A dog is not "almost human" and I know of no greater insult to the canine race than to describe it as such.
The more I see of humans, the more I admire dogs.
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader.
He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
The dog is a gentleman, I hope to go to his heaven, not man's.
About the only thing I can suggest is taking everything from his room except the basics, but I'd be worried he'd take or break things in his sister's room when you do.
Yes he did. And the sheet we put up in its place. Yes he does TRY to go into sister's room. She is 12 and takes Karate lessons. I only say that because he has a growth issue as well and is very small. That leads to a wide difference in size and "ability" between them making him afraid of her. We have replaced all the bedroom knobs with keyed locks. My wife and I have keys. The kids do not. That is so she can lock her door at will at night but he won't steal her key. They are never at home alone together. I'll let her stay at home by herelf but not him or them together.
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I don't think he should take offense, people have trouble distinguishing behavior disorders, that can be modified and organic brain disorders.
If someone is born without limbs or organs that don't work well nobody questions the limitations.
Brains are like any other organ in the body that can be malformed, it is not anybody's fault, it is just harder for us to deal with.
My heart goes out to Mr. Dis and his family. It also takes guts to get on here and discuss this with others. Hopefully the discussion will help Mr.Dis and maybe others dealing with these problems.
I don't think he should take offense, people have trouble distinguishing behavior disorders, that can be modified and organic brain disorders.
If someone is born without limbs or organs that don't work well nobody questions the limitations.
Brains are like any other organ in the body that can be malformed, it is not anybody's fault, it is just harder for us to deal with.
My heart goes out to Mr. Dis and his family. It also takes guts to get on here and discuss this with others. Hopefully the discussion will help Mr.Dis and maybe others dealing with these problems.
Have you tried exercise? I mean LOTS of sports/exercise? Diet could also be a factor.
A friend was telling me last week his son was diagnosed with ADD and having similar issues. They put him on meds for it and it fixed his behavior.
He does take medication and we have excluded milk from his diet. We did this long ago after reading about the link between dairy and these kind of issues. That was even before we found out through the doctors that he was indeed lactose intolerant.
These issues are rampant on my wife's side. Her dad is ADHD, she is ADD and her brother is bi-Polar. Couple that with my compulsiveness and you truly get a hell on Earth scenario.
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I have no advice for you, but I do hope you find out a solution.
Does Papi still think he can straighten him out in a week?
As the of aonly son of an only sonof an only sonof an only son... I hate to "write - off" his chances but I am SERIOUSLY thinking maybe me and Ms. Dis need to try again. Things are not looking too good for the "family name"
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I had the same thought, especially with the lack on concern for others. It would do well to get him evaluated by a behavioral expert, one that specializes in abnormal behavior.
I fantasize about my dogs having jobs. I pretend that both of them are window cleaners and their kennel is their first starter home. I think the bigger dog is trying to bump off the smaller dog so he can have the kennel to himself. I know I have a problem, but don't animals have to earn a living too?
Dogs may not be our whole lives, but they make our lives whole.
A dog is not "almost human" and I know of no greater insult to the canine race than to describe it as such.
The more I see of humans, the more I admire dogs.
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader.
He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
The dog is a gentleman, I hope to go to his heaven, not man's.
Does Papi still think he can straighten him out in a week?
As the of aonly son of an only sonof an only sonof an only son... I hate to "write - off" his chances but I am SERIOUSLY thinking maybe me and Ms. Dis need to try again. Things are not looking too good for the "family name"
LOL!!!
I do have a dog crate you can borrow if you think it will help
I'M KIDDING!!!!!!
i_have3dogs, on 19 March 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:
I had the same thought, especially with the lack on concern for others. It would do well to get him evaluated by a behavioral expert, one that specializes in abnormal behavior.
After reading Mr. Dis's description. This was my first thought too.
Perhaps a psychiatrist also? IDK...........just a suggestion.
.
I.I.T.Y.W.I.M.W.Y.B.M.A.D.
You shall find me waiting for you in the old cemetery, under the shade of the magnolia tree.............
Ever has it been that love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation.
Does Papi still think he can straighten him out in a week?
As the of aonly son of an only sonof an only sonof an only son... I hate to "write - off" his chances but I am SERIOUSLY thinking maybe me and Ms. Dis need to try again. Things are not looking too good for the "family name"
In earlier post about your son, you never went into that much detail about him. That being the case, no. I could straighten out a kid in a week that was just being a bad kid. Your child is obviously not just a bad kid. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. I can not imagine the hard decisions you will have to make in the future. I do agree with Laurie, you need to find the right combination of counselor/doctor/medication that will work for you and your child. I don't think any type of "boot camp" will help. He needs serious psychiatric care, possibly even a time in a psychiatric facility.
I was thinking maybe Ridgeview Institute in Smyrna but they only work with youths older than 11.
How about something like this but only find one instate or near by states. Also find one that he can live at (inhouse) this might do him some good and help him.
This sort of behavior may require in-patient care and behavior modification therapy. I would definitely talk to a behavior specialist. During in-patient treatment the doctors are able to try multiple medication therapies as well. Trial and error medicating at home with this kind of disorder is a recipe for disaster. I have heard many good things about Willowbrook in Villa Rica. It is located very near the hospital too in case of emergencies. I think that most insurance policies will cover this as well if it is deemed medically necessary by a medical professional.
I know that it is hard to think of sending your child to a "mental institution" but from what you have told us I believe that he is a danger to himself as well as the rest of your family.
Bless your heart....My heart breaks for you and your family...I think I would first find a good psychiatrist to talk to.....I believe deep down inside of this child, he feels something important is missing in his self and he is angry about it. He needs help finding out what's going on inside of that head of his...those fits he has could cause the whole family to become angry....and that's no help to him...at least try to ask him what makes him so angry and maybe talk to him to him and encourage him to talk it out and find out what's going on inside him....and a good psychiatrist will be able to help him to connect with his self..it's devastating for a child to feel that he/she is a "bad kid." Unless that feeling is reversed, the child grows up acting the part. I will keep you and your family in my prayers.....
Happiness is not having what you want, but wanting what you have.
In earlier post about your son, you never went into that much detail about him. That being the case, no. I could straighten out a kid in a week that was just being a bad kid. Your child is obviously not just a bad kid. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. I can not imagine the hard decisions you will have to make in the future. I do agree with Laurie, you need to find the right combination of counselor/doctor/medication that will work for you and your child. I don't think any type of "boot camp" will help. He needs serious psychiatric care, possibly even a time in a psychiatric facility.
I was thinking maybe Ridgeview Institute in Smyrna but they only work with youths older than 11.
I have looked at a few "group homes" that specialize in this area. There are a couple local and more that are nearby. A military school won't work at all. If your kid is hanging with the wrong crowd and / or just unmotivated then sure. But they are quick to tell you that psychological issues and military schools do not qo well together.
He can be a VERY loving child and gives hugs freely. He even got off the bus last Wed. and I heard him tell the driver "have a nice day and take care". That is my usual way to say goodbye. Mademe feel real good. BUT... he was doing what he wanted, coming home to "do art work". He was still ok when I told him we were doing a couple of errands. He wanted to go to the park and play while we were out and that was fine. And that all changed when I reminded him (at the park when he tried to sneak his notebook and pens into the park) that he was still banned from artwork because of the fires. (2 week ban) He became the most sullen mean little boy ever even though we were AT THE PARK JUST FOR HIM! He refused to play or have a good time and was just a PITA the whole time. I kept telling him "this is YOUR time. Use it wisely. You can go play and let yourself have fun or you can be miserable. Either way we are leaving at XXXX to go get your sister for soccer practice." He just flat out refused, just because I would not let him draw on the playground.
He is a great kid when it is his way and a real SOB when it is not. No matter what you do to / for him.
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This sort of behavior may require in-patient care and behavior modification therapy. I would definitely talk to a behavior specialist. During in-patient treatment the doctors are able to try multiple medication therapies as well. Trial and error medicating at home with this kind of disorder is a recipe for disaster. I have heard many good things about Willowbrook in Villa Rica. It is located very near the hospital too in case of emergencies. I think that most insurance policies will cover this as well if it is deemed medically necessary by a medical professional.
I know that it is hard to think of sending your child to a "mental institution" but from what you have told us I believe that he is a danger to himself as well as the rest of your family.
I agree. There are going to be some hard decisions to make ahead and I don't even you for having to make them. I know this must be breaking your's and snow white's heart!
kittycat, on 19 March 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:
Bless your heart....My heart breaks for you and your family...I think I would first find a good psychiatrist to talk to.....I believe deep down inside of this child, he feels something important is missing in his self and he is angry about it. He needs help finding out what's going on inside of that head of his...those fits he has could cause the whole family to become angry....and that's no help to him...at least try to ask him what makes him so angry and maybe talk to him to him and encourage him to talk it out and find out what's going on inside him....and a good psychiatrist will be able to help him to connect with his self..it's devastating for a child to feel that she is a "bad kid." Unless that feeling is reversed, the child grows up acting the part. I will keep you and your family in my prayers.....
I agree again.
My hearts breaks for you.
.
I.I.T.Y.W.I.M.W.Y.B.M.A.D.
You shall find me waiting for you in the old cemetery, under the shade of the magnolia tree.............
Ever has it been that love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation.
There is more to the statement you are what you eat than most of us imagine. Certain foods can kick a youngun into high gear particularly if there is a sensitivity to things like gluten (common in bread) and other things.
You begin to understand these weird dietary things if you are around a kid with autism ... and do know that I am and have been. And I also know that particularly at that age, these kids can be pretty doggone head strong.
I gather that your youngun has acquired at least age appropriate language. You don't report any very disturbing actions like torturing pets or other animals and there is obviously not a diagnosis of his being a sociopath. Those are good things
Obviously there is no way to make any kind of diagnosis over the descriptions presented on a message board but do know that self-absorption is a trait shared by many all across the autistic spectrum disorder including those who have language skills. Anger is another along with destruction.
I would ask if there is any regular behaviors like spinning (in a chair that spins) or in the yard. How about other repetitive behaviors? ... rocking for instance.
Are you able to calm and comfort him by holding him? Does he react positively - ie. does it help calm him - to stack pillows or couch cushions on him or otherwise provide full body pressure?
Have you tried doing any of these or has he done them for himself?
I know he's coming across as a little dynamo but what does he do to calm himself?
In a lot of ways I'm blessed but in a lot of ways was right where you are. (My son was put into the special central school after he bit and hit and had a couple of special ed aids sent to the hospital when they disrupted his routine at the beginning of middle school.)
His medical conditions are extensive. We have spent much time and money on this child. I'll list them out here:
1. ADHD / ODD yielding a child in a SE classroom for behavioral outburts. It appears that this is very prevelant on DW's side. She has ADD. Her Dad has ADHD and her brother is B-Polar. No one says "oh he is just like so and so at that age on her side. I can be at the very least a littlce Compulsive but not OCD. I also have a TERRIBLE temper but was blessed with a very long fuse. Everyone in my family just says how they have NEVER seen a child like him.
2. He has Esonphilic Esophogitus the same as me. That led to the discovery of his Lactose intollerance. He is NOT allergic to Gluten. He is allergice to red 40 though which makes him a little testy. The EE leeds to difficulty in swallowing but is managable. This is a very expensive and frustrating disease to diagnose manage and treat.
3. Growth Hormone Deficiancy. Again... much research into diet and habits as well as lots of testing. Currently taking growth hormone shots. Estimated to reach 5'04" without and about 5'08" with. treatment costs are $10,000 / quarter.
4. Chiari malformation stage 1 of 4 (basically a brain hernia). The Cerebrum is protruding though the opening in the base of the skull. That puts pressure on the spinal cord and can lead to headache and upper body / shoulder / neck pain. There is no know correlation between the CM and any form of psychiatric disorder. This was found while doing an MRI of his Pituitary for the growth hormone issues.
5. Treatment for ADHD / ODD by meds and counseling since age 4.
So there you have his history in a nutshell. I have spent SOOO much time, effort and money on this child that it is not even funny. And then he has the nerve to say that I do not love him like I do his sister.
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sorry to read about this... there is nothing more heartbreaking to know you have a child who needs help, but not quite sure what kind of help and to know you have tried everything is also heartbreaking...
"The most dangerous place in the world to be is "Between a Mother and her Child"
In Loving Memory of My Daddy and Mama
3-29-08and 10-24-2012
His medical conditions are extensive. We have spent much time and money on this child. I'll list them out here:
1. ADHD / ODD yielding a child in a SE classroom for behavioral outburts. It appears that this is very prevelant on DW's side. She has ADD. Her Dad has ADHD and her brother is B-Polar. No one says "oh he is just like so and so at that age on her side. I can be at the very least a littlce Compulsive but not OCD. I also have a TERRIBLE temper but was blessed with a very long fuse. Everyone in my family just says how they have NEVER seen a child like him.
2. He has Esonphilic Esophogitus the same as me. That led to the discovery of his Lactose intollerance. He is NOT allergic to Gluten. He is allergice to red 40 though which makes him a little testy. The EE leeds to difficulty in swallowing but is managable. This is a very expensive and frustrating disease to diagnose manage and treat.
3. Growth Hormone Deficiancy. Again... much research into diet and habits as well as lots of testing. Currently taking growth hormone shots. Estimated to reach 5'04" without and about 5'08" with. treatment costs are $10,000 / quarter.
4. Chiari malformation stage 1 of 4 (basically a brain hernia). The Cerebrum is protruding though the opening in the base of the skull. That puts pressure on the spinal cord and can lead to headache and upper body / shoulder / neck pain. There is no know correlation between the CM and any form of psychiatric disorder. This was found while doing an MRI of his Pituitary for the growth hormone issues.
5. Treatment for ADHD / ODD by meds and counseling since age 4.
So there you have his history in a nutshell. I have spent SOOO much time, effort and money on this child that it is not even funny. And then he has the nerve to say that I do not love him like I do his sister.
I know it must be terribly hard, but try to not take that to heart.
He's obviously not thinking clearly.
.
I.I.T.Y.W.I.M.W.Y.B.M.A.D.
You shall find me waiting for you in the old cemetery, under the shade of the magnolia tree.............
Ever has it been that love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation.