[mysterious]

My question is..........where did they get the paint?

The reason that I ask is that I sent my son into Wally World to get me a can and they said that they weren't allowed to sell it to him. This was a year ago but when I went in I was told that you had to have ID to buy paint.

[gog8tors]

First time your ass is MINE. Second time your on your own kid. Look we all know (even if we won't admit it) kids will get into trouble. You pray it isn't something that will affect their lives forever. At 17 the kid can leave home, but you (parents) better have food, and shelter available to them. Basically they can walk all over you for a year. But, I digress. In this case they planned it excuated it and should pay for it. I'm not really sure why this is a felony charge though. For that reason alone I would find an lawyer, just to get the charge lowered.

BTW: did you know that the "adult" age was lowered in the 60s? Our kids were not considered adults until they passed their 21st birthday, according to our Constitution.

[mysterious]

gog8tors, on 12 March 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

First time your ass is MINE. Second time your on your own kid. Look we all know (even if we won't admit it) kids will get into trouble. You pray it isn't something that will affect their lives forever. At 17 the kid can leave home, but you (parents) better have food, and shelter available to them. Basically they can walk all over you for a year. But, I digress. In this case they planned it excuated it and should pay for it. I'm not really sure why this is a felony charge though. For that reason alone I would find an lawyer, just to get the charge lowered.

BTW: did you know that the "adult" age was lowered in the 60s? Our kids were not considered adults until they passed their 21st birthday, according to our Constitution.

WELL SAID.

[SOLO]

PUBBY, on 12 March 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

Anyone who would abandon their child to the criminal justice system doesn't understand the criminal justice system nor the rights we have as citizens in dealing with the government.

We all know there are certain members of society that would extract the greatest punishment imaginable for relatively minor crimes. The old testament punishment of stoning to death for adultery and prostitution is one.

So what is the issue here? What is justice here?

I've not heard enough about it to form an opinion but do know that the US Supreme Court has ruled the burning of the American Flag could constitute constitutionally protected speech.
While I or no one will justify vandalism of public property, one might wonder if the acts of vandalism at the schools didn't contain some elements of speech and whether those elements may mitigate against the totality of the crime.

It is also predictable and certain that some parents will abandon their kids while others may seek the best possible legal help and defense for their children.

Can we be certain that the wheels of justice will treat each equally given that only a few will be able to afford the best legal representation? Or will the wealth of the parents and their willingness to provide legal assistance for their kids be a stark dividing line between those irreparably harmed by this incident and those for whom this is a memory of a momentary lapse into absolute stupidity?

Is justice served by there being such a division in outcomes.

This case, given the numbers of youths involved, will, IMO, put the community on trial as much as the youth.

One thing is for certain, this massive act of defiance and vandalism was not an expression of love and respect for the old Alma mater.

pubby

Like always you love to go overboard. Stoning??? Really??????????????
Defacing the school causes all that damage...free speech??????????????????????
And nice to know you did not forget the haves and have nots/ rich poor BS
community to put on trail....dang what a load of BS
Maybe we should just pat them on the head and tell them next time to use chalk so it will wash off easy and praise them for speaking up.
WOW just WOW

[Just thinkin' hard]

mysterious said:

1331568934[/url]' post='3610212']
My question is..........where did they get the paint?

The reason that I ask is that I sent my son into Wally World to get me a can and they said that they weren't allowed to sell it to him. This was a year ago but when I went in I was told that you had to have ID to buy paint.

At least one of these kids is 18. Plus, this did start out as just painting the road which is acceptable to the school.

[Greatma]

mysterious, on 12 March 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

My question is..........where did they get the paint?

The reason that I ask is that I sent my son into Wally World to get me a can and they said that they weren't allowed to sell it to him. This was a year ago but when I went in I was told that you had to have ID to buy paint.

You have to be 18 years old to buy spray paint.

[sadie612]

I would let them face the consequences

but I would help them get an attorney and be by their side through it all. They would be paying me back for all legal fees

On top of the consequence the legal system gives them they would have a punishment for at home as well

[PUBBY]

SOLO, on 12 March 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

Like always you love to go overboard. Stoning??? Really??????????????
Defacing the school causes all that damage...free speech??????????????????????
And nice to know you did not forget the haves and have nots/ rich poor BS
community to put on trail....dang what a load of BS
Maybe we should just pat them on the head and tell them next time to use chalk so it will wash off easy and praise them for speaking up.
WOW just WOW

Actually SOLO, the chalk idea is a good one.

You're blind if you don't think that some of the kids will never be caught ... i.e. the ones that got away and weren't snitched on (probably 20-30 more kids if this is as widespread as suggested.)

And of the ones that were caught, do you really think that the ones who will face a felony - probably because they had no competent legal advice - will be the ringleaders and the ones with good attorneys who get off with no permanent record (diversion) were the true innocents?

I suppose it could work that way ... but it never has worked that way before.

What's really sad is that the class leaders were inclined to do something stupid like this. I mean for the $40,000 restitution (or more) those who got caught (and possibly through the generosity of those who didn't) the class will have come up with cash. Wouldn't it have been a lot better to build a sign, make movie or even establish a scholarship for a handful of needy but deserving classmates. That is what true leadership within that class of 2012 would have done.

... Or they might have bought a lot of colored chalk and showed the community some real art.

But the issue here is whether employing the maximum punishments possible under the criminal justice system is the right tool for the task at hand which is fixing a bad situation or whether there is maybe alternatives that can be return better outcomes for society not just in 2012, but in 2014, 2024, 2044 and beyond.

See, if you take a longer term view and you consider the earnings of those involved, the qualify of life of not just the kids but their parents, siblings and the rest of the community, sending them to prison to be taught that trade (criminal activity) for a couple of years may backfire on you and yours in ways unimagined.

But then we are talking about imagination and the lack of it on the part of these stupid kids and I was complimentary of your imaginative suggestion they use chalk next time. It would work well on the pavement and buildings but they'd probably need some of that glass-writing stuff to mark up the cars... you know the kind that ultimately rubs off.

pubby

[SOLO]

[quote name='PUBBY' timestamp='1331575492' post='3610291']
Actually SOLO, the chalk idea is a good one.

You're blind if you don't think that some of the kids will never be caught ... i.e. the ones that got away and weren't snitched on (probably 20-30 more kids if this is as widespread as suggested.)

And of the ones that were caught, do you really think that the ones who will face a felony - probably because they had no competent legal advice - will be the ringleaders and the ones with good attorneys who get off with no permanent record (diversion) were the true innocents?

I suppose it could work that way ... but it never has worked that way before.

What's really sad is that the class leaders were inclined to do something stupid like this. I mean for the $40,000 restitution (or more) those who got caught (and possibly through the generosity of those who didn't) the class will have come up with cash. Wouldn't it have been a lot better to build a sign, make movie or even establish a scholarship for a handful of needy but deserving classmates. That is what true leadership within that class of 2012 would have done.

... Or they might have bought a lot of colored chalk and showed the community some real art.

But the issue here is whether employing the maximum punishments possible under the criminal justice system is the right tool for the task at hand which is fixing a bad situation or whether there is maybe alternatives that can be return better outcomes for society not just in 2012, but in 2014, 2024, 2044 and beyond.

See, if you take a longer term view and you consider the earnings of those involved, the qualify of life of not just the kids but their parents, siblings and the rest of the community, sending them to prison to be taught that trade (criminal activity) for a couple of years may backfire on you and yours in ways unimagined.

But then we are talking about imagination and the lack of it on the part of these stupid kids and I was complimentary of your imaginative suggestion they use chalk next time. It would work well on the pavement and buildings but they'd probably need some of that glass-writing stuff to mark up the cars... you know the kind that ultimately rubs off.

pubby
[/quot

We all know what they are charged with and what they end up with are two different things. Sorry you also feel that the only good lawyers are the ones who change the most . Wonder how some of your CM feel about that. Maybe being I have not seen a " news" story done on here you could do one and break it down for us as to the have and have note and the good lawyers and the cheap ones and see who gets what fines. If you try hard enough you maybe able to bring Hitler into it some way .

[i_have3dogs]

SOLO, on 12 March 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

We all know what they are charged with and what they end up with are two different things. Sorry you also feel that the only good lawyers are the ones who change the most . Wonder how some of your CM feel about that. Maybe being I have not seen a " news" story done on here you could do one and break it down for us as to the have and have note and the good lawyers and the cheap ones and see who gets what fines. If you try hard enough you maybe able to bring Hitler into it some way .

Look up Godwin's Law, the first to invoke it pretty has lost the argument and longer has a relevant contribution and is trying to win the argument by comparing it to Nazis and Hitler. And is usually employed where there are no relevant comparisons to be other than trying to win argument by comparing the argument they are opposed to being nothing more than a strict and stringent set of laws that offers no recourse for either the victim or the criminal, depending on the invokers view. The simple mention is enough to bring this up.

[GeorgiaTornado]

WoW.... just after a lot of people was volunteering to help clean up Poole....and in the tornado's path...these little crumb snatchers creating more work.

My mom would have BEAT my ass. I'd be begging to stay in jail!

Oh, and these kids won't get to just sit in a holding cell. After so long they will be deliced, and stripped and put into a jumpsuit and placed into GP- general population.... if someone don't bail them out pretty quick.

[STRAWMAN]

GeorgiaTornado, on 12 March 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

WoW.... just after a lot of people was volunteering to help clean up Poole....and in the tornado's path...these little crumb snatchers creating more work.

My mom would have BEAT my ass. I'd be begging to stay in jail!

Oh, and these kids won't get to just sit in a holding cell. After so long they will be deliced, and stripped and put into a jumpsuit and placed into GP- general population.... if someone don't bail them out pretty quick.

I was just thinking about that. Part of the county is coming together to raise money for a school damaged by a tornado, and then some morons go out and cause thousands of dollars worth of damage. If they can't make better choices than that maybe a delousing will do them some good. Apparently they haven't learned the difference between right and wrong in 17-18 years.

[Lucky64]

Everytime I see the title of this thread, bad decisions it irks me. Bad decision my butt. They knew exactly what they were doing. They know right from wrong and know they should have stopped at the road. But, they MADE the CHOICE to persue it further. What I'm not liking is, they are classifying the whole class for what a group of them done. That is just wrong.

[bh67]

Let's put it this way...I have told ALL of our kids when they were teens (including the 2 teens we have living at home now) "If you go to jail for something stupid, don't waste your 1 phone call on me!" PERIOD!

Seriously, they want to get into trouble, they AND THEY ALONE shall suffer the consequences. That should be enough to stop the "stupid gene" from taking over next time!

Scarlet

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

Lucky64, on 12 March 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

Everytime I see the title of this thread, bad decisions it irks me. Bad decision my butt. They knew exactly what they were doing. They know right from wrong and know they should have stopped at the road. But, they MADE the CHOICE to persue it further. What I'm not liking is, they are classifying the whole class for what a group of them done. That is just wrong.

Um, a BAD decision is a BAD decision whether you knew the ramifications or not. Still a BAD decision. So how could that possibly irk you....

This post has been edited by All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah: 12 March 2012 - 04:44 PM

[TJB]

mysterious, on 12 March 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

All I hear................
I hear exactly what you are saying and agree with you.

These kids SHOULD be punished, severely BUT their lives should not be ruined.

As a parent, yes I would bail my son out. THEN he would begin by paying me back and work his butt off to clean the school up.

Some people think that leaving them in jail is the answer.

I think PAYBACK is the answer. But let them pay for what they did and do not ruin their lives because they did something dumb.

Agreed. I'd be pissed at my kid and make them pay me back but a felony could ruin the kids'life.

[LPPT]

I keep thinking that this is a felony with the intent of dealing with gang bangers not high school kids that do something stupid.
I think I would have issues with the charges not being reduced to a misdemeanor for these kids. That means all of them, getting the same charges and punishment since it was a group thing.

They knew what they were doing and they knew it was wrong, but I still think that in their minds it was a prank.
Pranks are intended to be shocking or even funny, not usually really harming anyone or costing what this one did.
If they would have stuck to just painting the pavement we would just be discussing how disgusting it is.

[Lucky64]

All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah, on 12 March 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Um, a BAD decision is a BAD decision whether you knew the ramifications or not. Still a BAD decision. So how could that possibly irk you....

No, that wasn't at you. What I'm saying is, they planned this, they had to know what kind of trouble they would get into if caught. Some of the kids left after painting the road. The problem hear is they didn't think!

[overit]

LPPT, on 12 March 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

I keep thinking that this is a felony with the intent of dealing with gang bangers not high school kids that do something stupid.
I think I would have issues with the charges not being reduced to a misdemeanor for these kids. That means all of them, getting the same charges and punishment since it was a group thing.

They knew what they were doing and they knew it was wrong, but I still think that in their minds it was a prank.
Pranks are intended to be shocking or even funny, not usually really harming anyone or costing what this one did.
If they would have stuck to just painting the pavement we would just be discussing how disgusting it is.

This goes back to pick your friends better. Even if they didn't touch the spray paint, they are still facing the same charges. I think that SUCKS! All kids make mistakes, in some form or fashion.

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around all the parents that would leave their kids in jail. Do you realize how many kids/ 17 year olds get rapped and beat in jail? Does anybody realize how overcrowded Paulding YDC is? How much gang activity is in there? How many kids are rapped and beat in your own town's kiddie jail? Pubby, if you want to do a story, why not do one on Paulding County YDC? Go, inside look for yourself, let us know what you see!

[dana]

I went with option number one.

[drosser]

Lucky64, on 12 March 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

I firmly believe if you keep saving a kid, they will keep doing it over and over and over no matter the situation. You scare them straight, something in their head might click and they will never get into trouble again. It would be their wake up call and hope it works.

Well said!! Example: My cousin's son is 28 years old. From the time he started school, he was always in trouble. His grandmother, not his parents, ALWAYS made excuses for him. When he held another boy's head in the toilet and repeatedly flushed, she said "that's just what boys do". NO, THAT IS NOT JUST WHAT BOYS DO!!! In high school, he continued to get in trouble, and she was always taking up for him and not making him face any consequences. Of course, he finally ended up in real trouble and went to jail (the first of many times). I wish I had half the money she has spent bonding him out and paying for lawyers to get him off with as little punishment as possible. He has the mindset that his grandmother will ALWAYS be there to save him. He has NEVER had to face any real consequences. He lives with grandma, has never had a job, never had a car, and has everything handed to him on a silver platter. It's only a matter of time before he's back in jail with grandma spending what little money she has getting him out again.

My oldest daughter, who is 29, started getting into trouble in middle school. Nothing really bad, but she ended up in YDC on more than one occasion. I never made excuses for her and I certainly never hired a lawyer. She needed to face consequences for what she did (mostly stealing and beng defiant). She even went into state custody because of her behavior and the things that she was doing. When she was 19, she got into some trouble (marijuana possession and trying to buy ammunition for a stolen gun--a guy offered her $200 if she'd go into the store and buy it). All she thought about was making an easy $200. She never bothered to find out why this guy wouldn't buy the ammunition himself. She was arrested and went to jail. I did not bail her out. She knew better than to ask!! She ended up getting a friend to get her out. I did go pick her up from jail after her friend paid her bond. She paid for her own attorney and, believe me, that was the end of her criminal days. She's now the mother of two beautiful children, and she knows the reason that she turned her life around is because she had no choice. She knew not to call me and her so-called friends always seemed to disappear when she got in trouble.

Teenagers and young adults have to face consequences. Otherwise, they will never learn anything.

[Lady Raider]

GeorgiaTornado, on 12 March 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

WoW.... just after a lot of people was volunteering to help clean up Poole....and in the tornado's path...these little crumb snatchers creating more work.

My mom would have BEAT my ass. I'd be begging to stay in jail!

Oh, and these kids won't get to just sit in a holding cell. After so long they will be deliced, and stripped and put into a jumpsuit and placed into GP- general population.... if someone don't bail them out pretty quick.

I said the same thing about my boys, they would rather be in jail then to come home here... and I would have never went home after doing something like that.. my parents would have beat my butt also.. I would have begged to stay in jail...

[dana]

Lady Raider, on 12 March 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

I said the same thing about my boys, they would rather be in jail then to come home here... and I would have never went home after doing something like that.. my parents would have beat my butt also.. I would have begged to stay in jail...

That's exactly how it should be, I was raised the same way.

[Mariposa]

mrnn, on 12 March 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

I think the court will show leniency. There may be a ringleader or two tried for felony charges in addition to any of the kids who already have a criminal record but, from the accounts here on PCom, many of these kids are good kids. I mean one of them has been accepted to a Military Academy?!?! Not exactly "felon" material.

mrnn

Apparently destruction of govt property IS a felony. He is felon material, because he made the stupid decision to do it. It is very sad that he decided to do it.

[dana]

tbird, on 12 March 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

Ok,, Been there, done that.

Yes, many years ago, my son got in trouble and was arrested--nothing major, just stupid kid stuff. Did I get him out--yes. Did he pay me back--yes. And he paid for his own attorney (this was before I started working for attorneys and we found one that would allow HIM to make payments). He took his punishment and went on with his life.

One thing I learned amny moons ago was--NEVER say that your kid won't do something!!! It will most likely come back and bite you in the A$$!! Even the best of kids will do things with their friends that you never dreamed of. And I would venture to say that even your "best kid" has done something in their life that their parents know nothing about.

You are so right, never say never! Also, your last sentence is absolutely true.

[mrnn]

Mariposa, on 12 March 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

Apparently destruction of govt property IS a felony. He is felon material, because he made the stupid decision to do it. It is very sad that he decided to do it.

Do you believe that had he known the potential repercussions of his actions (ie. felony charges) he would have still participated? Were you, personally, up to code on classifications of every crime when you were 17 or 18?

BTW, I drove by there quickly today and I could see the sign on the subdivision across the street as well as the big 2012 on the front of the school. Based on handwriting, you're looking at 1-3 kids who actually vandalized the property. Apparently we should go ahead and charge all 30 kids or whatever it was with felonies for being there.


mrnn

[STRAWMAN]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Any 10 year old knows it is wrong to destroy something that is not yours. This isnt Nam Smokey, there are rules. You break a rule you deal with the consequence. By changing the punishment because these were "good kids" is why this whole attitude of it doesn't apply to me I'm special attitude is spreading.

[PUBBY]

Here is another uncomfortable reality.

If this were indeed publicized within the 'class' anyone who had knowledge of it could be portrayed as a co-conspirator whether or not they were present.

That there was an organized conspiracy for those in that class to meet and conduct this criminal activity - even if the actual acts beyond the painting of the pavement was not anticipated - and that fact could implicate even those who did not directly participate or even those who chose not to participate.

Still, there are others who might not have attended but were active parts of the conspiracy because they provided $5.00 for some paint or helped gas up another's automobile or simply maintained silence. Conspiracy to commit a felony, the way the law is written, is also a felony and a such, potentially any senior at EPHS could also be charged.

Indeed, who is to say they weren't at the location but managed to escape? Can they prove absolutely they were at home in bed asleep? Could they not have sneaked out ... and back in without being observed?

Who among any of us can prove absolutely their where abouts at 4 a.m. Sunday morning?

I mean all my witnesses to my where abouts at that date and time were, like me, asleep and therefore no more certain of my where abouts than I of theirs. Of course I'm not in a suspected class and have no kids at EPHS and so I most probably would not have known but I could no more prove my where abouts than I could testify about yours.

We know there were more kids at the location. We know that some escaped. We know that many, many more knew about the plans and could presume that most all the seniors at EPHS were aware.

I think there is a case to be made that they are all guilty and all should be punished. I mean if we are going to take a hard line on the law, the conspiracy arguably involves every one of the seniors at EPHS.

pubby

[STRAWMAN]

PUBBY, on 12 March 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

Here is another uncomfortable reality.

If this were indeed publicized within the 'class' anyone who had knowledge of it could be portrayed as a co-conspirator whether or not they were present.

That there was an organized conspiracy for those in that class to meet and conduct this criminal activity - even if the actual acts beyond the painting of the pavement was not anticipated - and that fact could implicate even those who did not directly participate or even those who chose not to participate.

Still, there are others who might not have attended but were active parts of the conspiracy because they provided $5.00 for some paint or helped gas up another's automobile or simply maintained silence. Conspiracy to commit a felony, the way the law is written, is also a felony and a such, potentially any senior at EPHS could also be charged.

Indeed, who is to say they weren't at the location but managed to escape? Can they prove absolutely they were at home in bed asleep? Could they not have sneaked out ... and back in without being observed?

Who among any of us can prove absolutely their where abouts at 4 a.m. Sunday morning?

I mean all my witnesses to my where abouts at that date and time were, like me, asleep and therefore no more certain of my where abouts than I of theirs. Of course I'm not in a suspected class and have no kids at EPHS and so I most probably would not have known but I could no more prove my where abouts than I could testify about yours.

We know there were more kids at the location. We know that some escaped. We know that many, many more knew about the plans and could presume that most all the seniors at EPHS were aware.

I think there is a case to be made that they are all guilty and all should be punished. I mean if we are going to take a hard line on the law, the conspiracy arguably involves every one of the seniors at EPHS.

pubby

That is a weak argument...because we cant prove that they weren't all involved we shouldn't hold any responsible? If someone got away and they van live with that on their conscience that's between them and their higher power. Fact is that some kids can be directly linked to the distruction, and they can and should be held responsible.

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

Lucky64, on 12 March 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

No, that wasn't at you. What I'm saying is, they planned this, they had to know what kind of trouble they would get into if caught. Some of the kids left after painting the road. The problem hear is they didn't think!

Ok, you're forgiven then!

[Mariposa]

mrnn, on 12 March 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

Do you believe that had he known the potential repercussions of his actions (ie. felony charges) he would have still participated? Were you, personally, up to code on classifications of every crime when you were 17 or 18?

BTW, I drove by there quickly today and I could see the sign on the subdivision across the street as well as the big 2012 on the front of the school. Based on handwriting, you're looking at 1-3 kids who actually vandalized the property. Apparently we should go ahead and charge all 30 kids or whatever it was with felonies for being there.


mrnn

I just meant, good kid or not, at this point it appears that what the kids actually DID was a felony. It doesn't matter whether they thought through the consequences or not, or what their intentions were, it is the action that will be judged.

[mrnn]

kwood, on 12 March 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

This isnt Nam Smokey, there are rules.

There are a lot of ins, a lot of outs, a lot of what-have-you's...to this case. We'll see where it all lands. I'm just hopeful that a lot of good kids with promising futures aren't found guilty of felonies due to the extremely irresponsible actions of a few bad seeds who also participated in the senior prank.

mrnn

[LPPT]

I am amazed at the people that want to throw the book at kids, let the punishment fit the crime, it was paint, it can be removed and paid for by parents.
The kids that did something dumb will learn their lesson and move on to better things, the bad seeds no matter what reason, bad parenting or whatever will end up in the system anyway.
If this was my kid that was generally a good kid and caught up in this, you bet I would get them out and get them a good lawyer, even if the parent can't afford a good lawyer this is way too young to hang this on a kids neck, especially if they don't have great parents it is another stone around their necks.

I just keep thinking over and over about how young 18 really is.

[PUBBY]

kwood, on 12 March 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

That is a weak argument...because we cant prove that they weren't all involved we shouldn't hold any responsible? If someone got away and they van live with that on their conscience that's between them and their higher power. Fact is that some kids can be directly linked to the distruction, and they can and should be held responsible.

Not once did I say we shouldn't hold any of the kids responsible. Rather I suggested that one way to look at this the law requires we hold a lot more of the kids responsible - including those who knew and kept quiet and therefore were accessories before the fact.

The point was that if you want to the hard line, there is enough there to charge virtually every one of the kids and if not that, a substantial number of them including some who were not there.

Of course they won't be charged because it would horribly unpopular to involve 50, 60 or even 100,200, or 400 families in this mess - in an election year. Further it would be a horrible waste of investigative and prosecutorial time and effort to pursue this to its absolute end under the law.

What is unfortunate though is that to placate those who call for blood, two, three, maybe five will be nailed with a felony and be shown little or no mercy. Of course this will be the most vulnerable and by that, I mean the kids who may have had some trouble in the past or whose parents are not financially able to afford competent representation. It may or may not have a relation to the actual damages effected.

These few will serve as a warning to those who were just stupid and they will forever say that private prayer upon seeing the horrors of failure, there but for the grace of God go I.

A few fall guys become throw-away kids - is just not just nor is it smart. This is inevitably where this will go as long as a few demand prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.

The only way out of the predictable rush to criminal justice is to understand that there are some things we ought not ask the criminal justice system to solve. It really is burdened and limited in its scope and ability to address the breadth of issues involved.

pubby

[Subby's Mower Repair]

All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah, on 12 March 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Ok, the posts in the other thread REALLY amaze me with people saying they would let their kid sit in jail and not bail them out, I guess I am a horrible parent but I just think that is astounding. So here is the scenario. Your kid gets involved and caught vandalizing property. They are a kid that has never gotten into legal trouble before, done really good in school and are generally good all around kids. In this situation the damage is significant and they are facing felony charges, what would you do?

I will tell you up front, #1 would be my choice and others seem to indicate that is a very poor choice. I on the other hand find #2 a very poor choice and refuse to turn my back on my kid. I would never want them to escape punishment, but I feel laying my kid out to the judicial system to punish is very harsh.

I have found through experience than a LOT of people who say that, have not been in those shoes. What does NOT amaze me is that when those people actually go through the situation, they break the doors down to get their kids out. It's easy to talk like a hard-ass until the shoe winds up on your foot. Having said that, if my kid did it a SECOND time, I would be SLOWER about getting them out. Still doesn't mean I wouldn't do it in the end. I told my daughter that a DUI carries a 48 hour stay in jail, so if she ever got one....I might wait until the time is up, else she would have to go right back in the can after her conviction. But that's a DUI. Depending on the level of the crime would determine my response. As a parent, I choose not to fool myself into thinking I would leave them sit in jail though. Thank God that's never been a problem for me. I just know I can't count the people who used to say that, then watched them burn rubber to the jail house, crying all the way there to rescue their kid. One bad thing about jail, however- I have also seen some pretty good kids get tossed in there for not a very good reason, then seen them come out with a different attitude, and I don't mean a better one. A couple learned how to improve their criminal activity and stepped it up a level.

[dana]

Subby, on 12 March 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

I have found through experience than a LOT of people who say that, have not been in those shoes. What does NOT amaze me is that when those people actually go through the situation, they break the doors down to get their kids out. It's easy to talk like a hard-ass until the shoe winds up on your foot. Having said that, if my kid did it a SECOND time, I would be SLOWER about getting them out. Still doesn't mean I wouldn't do it in the end. I told my daughter that a DUI carries a 48 hour stay in jail, so if she ever got one....I might wait until the time is up, else she would have to go right back in the can after her conviction. But that's a DUI. Depending on the level of the crime would determine my response. As a parent, I choose not to fool myself into thinking I would leave them sit in jail though. Thank God that's never been a problem for me. I just know I can't count the people who used to say that, then watched them burn rubber to the jail house, crying all the way there to rescue their kid. One bad thing about jail, however- I have also seen some pretty good kids get tossed in there for not a very good reason, then seen them come out with a different attitude, and I don't mean a better one. A couple learned how to improve their criminal activity and stepped it up a level.

You are so right about being a hard ass until it's you or your own. So easy to judge when it doesn't involve you or any aspect of your life. People need to be slower to judge.

[Subby's Mower Repair]

overit, on 12 March 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

This goes back to pick your friends better. Even if they didn't touch the spray paint, they are still facing the same charges. I think that SUCKS! All kids make mistakes, in some form or fashion.

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around all the parents that would leave their kids in jail. Do you realize how many kids/ 17 year olds get rapped and beat in jail? Does anybody realize how overcrowded Paulding YDC is? How much gang activity is in there? How many kids are rapped and beat in your own town's kiddie jail? Pubby, if you want to do a story, why not do one on Paulding County YDC? Go, inside look for yourself, let us know what you see!

I would agree with this, then subject my kid to MY OWN form of discipline. They'd probably preferred the jail. If someone is worried about their kids being with the wrong crowd, I would point out that the inmates are probably the worst crowd they could be spending time with.

[i_have3dogs]

LPPT, on 12 March 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

I am amazed at the people that want to throw the book at kids, let the punishment fit the crime, it was paint, it can be removed and paid for by parents.
The kids that did something dumb will learn their lesson and move on to better things, the bad seeds no matter what reason, bad parenting or whatever will end up in the system anyway.
If this was my kid that was generally a good kid and caught up in this, you bet I would get them out and get them a good lawyer, even if the parent can't afford a good lawyer this is way too young to hang this on a kids neck, especially if they don't have great parents it is another stone around their necks.

I just keep thinking over and over about how young 18 really is.

I'm amazed by those that think that a slap on the wrist is going to make them realize the error of their ways. They screwed up, badly. Getting off easy will make them think they can always get off easy.

[LGM]

i_have3dogs, on 12 March 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

I'm amazed by those that think that a slap on the wrist is going to make them realize the error of their ways. They screwed up, badly. Getting off easy will make them think they can always get off easy.

I screwed up. Badly.

Daddy got me out of it. (Daddy is a police officer).

I never, ever did anything remotely that stupid or illegal EVER again.

My cousin screwed up. Also badly.

Daddy got him out of it.

He repeated aforementioned screwing up not once, but five or six times (knowing good and well he had used his one get-out-of-jail-free card).

Some kids really do learn the first time. Those who don't would wind up back in the system anyway.


Now, by 'got me out of it', I simply mean I don't have a record.
I, by no means whatsoever, mean that I didn't get in trouble.

Oh lord, did I get into trouble.

Even on a much, much less serious subject - I was pulled over in his county once. Emphasis on ONCE. The cop tossed my license back to me as soon as he read my last name and said 'I'm calling your father'. He went back to his car, and we both raced to call my dad. I got to him first, but that didn't help.

Ten years later I'm still scared to speed, and I've had one ticket for going 46 in a 35 all of 30 yards after a posted speed limit change on a downhill back road.

My dad isn't even scary. He's a big damn teddy bear.

So not ALL kids would think they could get out of it if given a lighter punishment. Some, maybe, but those kids are pretty doomed to begin with. Blanket statements and generalizations are not your friend.

[Subby's Mower Repair]

i_have3dogs, on 12 March 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

I'm amazed by those that think that a slap on the wrist is going to make them realize the error of their ways. They screwed up, badly. Getting off easy will make them think they can always get off easy.

For the record, although I may get my kid outa jail, it sure as hell wont be followed with a slap on the wrist.