[Mr.Dis]

So here is the situation. Wife got the new job. It is 30 miles each way. She drives a 2011 Tahoe that gets about 15 mpg. We still have a ways to go on paying it off. We have positive equity but not by much. I figure it will take 20 gallons of gas every week and every other week another 4. But forget that 6 day week. We would need someone to watch Dis jr. every 3rd day while I am at work. My mother did this before but we gave her our 3rd vehicle to use and we kept gas in it for her. My Step-dad is a WONDERFUL man but is really funny about using his vehicle to do this even if I provide fuel money.The first question my mom asked me when I asked her if she would get Dis jr. every 3rd day again was "do you have a 3rd car?" We lost our 3rd vehicle years ago due to an accident. I am always trying to maximize my return on investment so I have been looking at a lease on a new Chevy Malibu. I see it having 25 mpg as compared to the 15 on the Tahoe which we would leave with mom. We really like the Tahoe and do not want to get rid of it but we do not want to rack up all those miles either. 20k miles / year on a $40,000 vehicle is not what I want to do. We get employee pricing on it (Malibu) and it is a really good time to get one. Sticker price is $24,700 and drive out would be $20,700 with tax and all. the lease agreement would be $270 / month with the taxes and allow for 39 months and 15,000 miles per year and a residual price of $10,000. So there we have the lease side. On the purchase side we might see $20,700 @ 7% for 60 month for $410 / month. Now I have gone over the purchase numbers in comparison. I found (and this blew me away) that if Ieased for the 39 months and then financed the residual at the same rate & time the total purchase cost came to be $22,300. And at no time would the monthly expense top $270. I would pay longer 8+ years. If I bought out right the cost would be $24,600. Weird huh. So then if you factor the fuel savings. The weekly gallons saved would be 8+ which translates to this mnthly with gal cost:


$3.50 120

$4.00 140

$4.50 155

$5.00 175

I rounded to the nearest $5 in there.

I see $3.50 as a minimum and $4.50 as the likely price for the next year and pushing higher the next. Insurance would be $50 / month. So at the minimum I would pay $145 / month out of pocket and at the maximum $200 / month. What I would get would be the 3rd vehicle my mom would need and save mileage on the Tahoe. Now as an alternative I am thinking of offering them $100 / month for the use of their vehicle. I also was thinking about the current after school program. I do have some issues with that though. With Dis. jr's issues I would never know if or when the school would call and demand we pick him up. He has been doing much better but this still scares the crap out of me especially since my wife would be in NE Cobb. Plus I think the program will cost at least $35 / week or $150 / month anyway. By far the cheapest is to pay them the $100 / month and the least ROI would be the after care class. The most flexible and most ROI seems to be the lease. That will also give me a 3rd car for my daughter when she starts to drive in about 4 years. OMG!!! Noooo!!! she isn't really that close to it is she?!?
What say you good people of Mayberry. Am I missing a different solution? Did I do my calculations wrong? Anything else I need to consider?

TIA

[mysterious]

My advice is to forget getting another car and find someone for her to carpool with.
Instead of alternating days or weeks on the carpool she could offer to pay the total gas each week for the other person to do all the driving.
It is a win/win.

[Mr.Dis]

mysterious, on 25 February 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

My advice is to forget getting another car and find someone for her to carpool with.
Instead of alternating days or weeks on the carpool she could offer to pay the total gas each week for the other person to do all the driving.
It is a win/win.

I hadn't thought much about that. She is working at the bank which does not lend to a big group to carpool with but we could still try. I'll let her know. she can find out where the rest of the staff lives. Thanks... great idea. Sometimes I just get too focused on doing things without others.

And Of course she shoots that idea down in 5 seconds. Says something about bank security no wanting people to carpool so that 2 employees do not arrive at the same time.

[mysterious]

Mr.Dis, on 25 February 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

I hadn't thought much about that. She is working at the bank which does not lend to a big group to carpool with but we could still try. I'll let her know. she can find out where the rest of the staff lives. Thanks... great idea. Sometimes I just get too focused on doing things without others.

You are welcome.
And she could check with a few of the nearby offices where she works to see if there is anyone there that is willing.
Good luck.

[Shananigans]

Holy crap. cars are expensive. I have a 98 caravan for $2900

[Mr.Dis]

Shananigans, on 25 February 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Holy crap. cars are expensive. I have a 98 caravan for $2900

Yep... I also did look at buying used. We could buy a used vehicle up to around $12,000 for $250 month. Then calculate the fuel savings accordingly. I just do not know how much car we could get for that. we still need to go to Carmax to get an idea. Then I can look online. I like starting there because they have a real good selection of cars to look at and get a feel for what you like and don't like. Then go online to find the best deal.

[Shananigans]

i got my van at carmax. awesome way to car shop.

[lovecanbuildabridge]

Mr.Dis said:

1330211924[/url]' post='3602474']
Yep... I also did look at buying used. We could buy a used vehicle up to around $12,000 for $250 month. Then calculate the fuel savings accordingly. I just do not know how much car we could get for that. we still need to go to Carmax to get an idea. Then I can look online. I like starting there because they have a real good selection of cars to look at and get a feel for what you like and don't like. Then go online to find the best deal.

Come see me!

[Mr.Dis]

lovecanbuildabridge, on 26 February 2012 - 02:17 AM, said:

Come see me!

I may have to. Which store is the one you work at?

[bh67]

Where is she driving to? I was thinking if gas shoots up a carpool thread might be in order. I drive to Tech daily and may get with some there. I like the freedom of my own car but there is a tipping point.

[Mr.Dis]

bh67, on 26 February 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

Where is she driving to? I was thinking if gas shoots up a carpool thread might be in order. I drive to Tech daily and may get with some there. I like the freedom of my own car but there is a tipping point.

I like the thought of a carpool or exress bus. I would like to see if she could do that. She would not be going into Atlanta though and most bus routes go there rather than cross town.

[Mr.Dis]

Well, it was a beautiful day for a motorcycle ride so I rode up to the Town Center area and spent some time looking at the vehicles up there. Still can't decide which is the best course of action here. I really need to see if I can find her a carpool buddy. I did look at a Volt while I was there. wonder if I could get this administration to provide us with one for advertising purposes. you know... put the vehicle wrap on it so it woud be a moving billboard.

[Snow White]

Mr.Dis, on 26 February 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

Well, it was a beautiful day for a motorcycle ride so I rode up to the Town Center area and spent some time looking at the vehicles up there. Still can't decide which is the best course of action here. I really need to see if I can find her a carpool buddy. I did look at a Volt while I was there. wonder if I could get this administration to provide us with one for advertising purposes. you know... put the vehicle wrap on it so it woud be a moving billboard.

lol your funny

[dumbestgirlintheworld]

I'm going on the assumption that you've worked out the net value to your family of the misses taking this job, after taxes, but here's my two cents.

Leases are tricky - especially if you start to factor in long commutes. I guess what is a sticking point for me is that you're really sharpening the pencil for $300/month - all and all. I would hope that your wife taking a job so far away would be to make such small amounts of money inconsequential.

Now, that said I have no idea where she was work or the past circumstances, so I might be speaking out of turn. Just know that when you buy this car, it's payment, gas, insurance, etc. So you really should factor $800/month or so for this expense. It might be easier to try and trim from other areas and have her hold out a little longer and find something closer than to add to debt that seems to be a bit of a burden to any one single income.

Just some food for thought. I recently bought a second car due to a job change and I really had to think through the decision.

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

dumbestgirlintheworld, on 27 February 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

I'm going on the assumption that you've worked out the net value to your family of the misses taking this job, after taxes, but here's my two cents.

Leases are tricky - especially if you start to factor in long commutes. I guess what is a sticking point for me is that you're really sharpening the pencil for $300/month - all and all. I would hope that your wife taking a job so far away would be to make such small amounts of money inconsequential.

Now, that said I have no idea where she was work or the past circumstances, so I might be speaking out of turn. Just know that when you buy this car, it's payment, gas, insurance, etc. So you really should factor $800/month or so for this expense. It might be easier to try and trim from other areas and have her hold out a little longer and find something closer than to add to debt that seems to be a bit of a burden to any one single income.

Just some food for thought. I recently bought a second car due to a job change and I really had to think through the decision.

You can't really factor gas into it because she would be in a gas hog compared to a more fuel efficient car. If she has a 15k mile lease she should be fine if she just commutes in it. 300 miles x 52 weeks would be fine. So I would think the car payment and insurance would be the only real expenses and then factor in the savings of cutting the gas bill in half plus not wearing out a $40k plus car seems like a really smart move, if it is $250 a month for the car plus $50 for insurnance and they save $200 a month in gas plus keep the premium car with low mileage it is a win-win. I think he is pretty smart for pursuing the option of a third car. Of course, carpooling would be the best option, if possible....

This post has been edited by All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah: 27 February 2012 - 03:37 PM

[dumbestgirlintheworld]

All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah, on 27 February 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

You can't really factor gas into it because she would be in a gas hog compared to a more fuel efficient car. If she has a 15k mile lease she should be fine if she just commutes in it. 300 miles x 52 weeks would be fine. So I would think the car payment and insurance would be the only real expenses and then factor in the savings of cutting the gas bill in half plus not wearing out a $40k plus car seems like a really smart move, if it is $250 a month for the car plus $50 for insurnance and they save $200 a month in gas plus keep the premium car with low mileage it is a win-win. I think he is pretty smart for pursuing the option of a third car. Of course, carpooling would be the best option, if possible....

It always starts off as "just to work and back". Then, before you know it you're taking it on vacation because of the money you'll save, so on and so forth. I guess I'm just saying make sure that you only take on as many bills as one single income can cover at any given time. Make sure that the benefit of your wife taking a job such a long distance away is worth the investment.

Obviously, even at $10/hour you're making a profit after paying for the new car, but now you have a child staying with family that seems less than accomedating, a child with some difficultly already and a pretty big distance to be availbe....anyways, you get where I'm going. It's a pretty tough decision, though I do applaud you for thinking through it, so many would be shortsighted about such decisions.

[PUBBY]

If your intention on the lease is to buy the car at lease end (I thought it kind of funny that you pay $2,000 less by your calculations by leasing and then buying at the buy out) it would seem that mileage ceases to be an issue ... i.e. if you intend to buy the vehicle with 39,000 miles at a set $10,000 ... they won't charge you any more if you essentially agree to buy it at lease end with 50,000 miles.

interesting analysis.

pubby

[Mrs G]

R-U-N, as fast as you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr.Dis]

PUBBY, on 27 February 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

If your intention on the lease is to buy the car at lease end (I thought it kind of funny that you pay $2,000 less by your calculations by leasing and then buying at the buy out) it would seem that mileage ceases to be an issue ... i.e. if you intend to buy the vehicle with 39,000 miles at a set $10,000 ... they won't charge you any more if you essentially agree to buy it at lease end with 50,000 miles.

interesting analysis.

pubby

I try to look at everything Pubby. I had to run that several times over because it just felt wrong. I believe of has sometimh to do with the lease incentives carrying a very low rate. You get the choice between rebate or rates. But there seem to be added perks with the lease. We Ger the rebate AND the low rate. One of mu friends did the sameand be said his came out cheaper too. As foe the miles. We SET 15K. Of we had chosen 12K the residual would have taken that into account and been higher. But if we do go over then bought or released of would not matter.

DGITW, we only take a single trip to FL every year and the Tahoe would ho with even with the gas milage. But I do understand where you are coming from on this. My parents are very accommodating as are hers. Mine are just way closer. My dad is just real funny about his has and cars being used. Her parents would do it for freebit that is an extra 2 gallons per day in the Tahoe. And she gets paid pretty good.

[Inspector Callahan]

Mrs G, on 27 February 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

R-U-N, as fast as you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, you can buy an awful lot of gasoline for 20K.

[GeorgiaTornado]

MrDis my bff in Louisiana does the same thing you are talking about...but he will buy a KIA Rio or something like that. He drives from one town in Louisiana to a town at the edge of Arkansas/Texas. He drives about 160 miles r/t.

He swears by those cars. He has a new Silverado 4x4 that would kill him in gas if he drove it that far everyday. What you are doing is very common in rural areas of the country.

[peachesga]

check out the diesel Jetta

[Mr.Dis]

peachesga, on 28 February 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

check out the diesel Jetta

Diesels are great but they are not so hot in the city. The city fuel ecnomy would drop a lot.

[peachesga]

Mr.Dis, on 28 February 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Diesels are great but they are not so hot in the city. The city fuel ecnomy would drop a lot.

true

[Mr.Dis]

Well after much debate and consideration (not to mention mom said she would NOT drive the Tahoe) we decided. We will be selling / trading in the Tahoe. Buy or lease the Malibu. I'm still working on which one. Right now we are set with the lease but there are some things I just do not understand in that contract. The guy told me the residual ( the value they determine the car to be worth at lease end) would be $10,400. In the contract it jumped up to $12900. I questioned that. The answer that we got was that they add $2500 on basically as a cushion in case the car depreciates (on average) faster than they thought. Well I understand that but you are not looking at from my stand point. That is 25% higher than the residual you quote. This model is in it's 5th year with depreciation pretty well set by history. You are a business that specializes in this and should be able to pin it down a lot better than that. They wouldn't like it if I told them I'll pay your price +/- 25% would they? That basically just added $2500 to the overall amount that I would have to pay if I decided to purchase at lease end. There are also a whole host of other financial items to contend with as well since we would trade in as well. The most prominent being trade tax exemption. that would be the taxes on the new cars price would reflect the reduction in taxes by the amount of the taxes on the trade. In this case virtually a wash. And the addition of negative equity. Don't even get me started on that.


I can navigate my way through a standard purchase and financing calculation in my head almost as fast as they can on the computer. I know what to do with what amount and what things to include and exempt like no ones business. Right now I'm thinking long term it may just be better to purchase rather than lease. I was looking at the lease as a way to help afford an extra payment but with trading in a vehicle and still having the payment go down $150 / month and an additional gas savings in the $180 range I think I can afford $40 / month extra on the purchase.

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

Mr.Dis, on 28 February 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

Well after much debate and consideration (not to mention mom said she would NOT drive the Tahoe) we decided. We will be selling / trading in the Tahoe. Buy or lease the Malibu. I'm still working on which one. Right now we are set with the lease but there are some things I just do not understand in that contract. The guy told me the residual ( the value they determine the car to be worth at lease end) would be $10,400. In the contract it jumped up to $12900. I questioned that. The answer that we got was that they add $2500 on basically as a cushion in case the car depreciates (on average) faster than they thought. Well I understand that but you are not looking at from my stand point. That is 25% higher than the residual you quote. This model is in it's 5th year with depreciation pretty well set by history. You are a business that specializes in this and should be able to pin it down a lot better than that. They wouldn't like it if I told them I'll pay your price +/- 25% would they? That basically just added $2500 to the overall amount that I would have to pay if I decided to purchase at lease end. There are also a whole host of other financial items to contend with as well since we would trade in as well. The most prominent being trade tax exemption. that would be the taxes on the new cars price would reflect the reduction in taxes by the amount of the taxes on the trade. In this case virtually a wash. And the addition of negative equity. Don't even get me started on that.


I can navigate my way through a standard purchase and financing calculation in my head almost as fast as they can on the computer. I know what to do with what amount and what things to include and exempt like no ones business. Right now I'm thinking long term it may just be better to purchase rather than lease. I was looking at the lease as a way to help afford an extra payment but with trading in a vehicle and still having the payment go down $150 / month and an additional gas savings in the $180 range I think I can afford $40 / month extra on the purchase.

It must be through Ally. They charge a stupid fee to buy out. We leased my wife's Yukon and they switched me to US Bank when I refused to sign anything with that fee. For us, the lease was a HUGE benefit. We got another $3000 in rebates and .9 interest on the lease. It was almost $5k cheaper in the end over traditional financing. We do intend to keep it so the $2500 was a no go for us. Ask them to check another leasing company. But how is this going to help you if you still need a third car for the Mom?
ETA - Can you try to sell it (the Tahoe) yourself? We were trying to find a used one when buying my wife's 2012 Yukon but the used one's were selling for an insane amount and everyone we called about was already sold, this was in November. It would be worth a shot... We sold my wife's 2011 Acadia Denali in November for four thousand less than we paid for it and it was a year old. It sold in two weeks for full asking price.

This post has been edited by All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah: 28 February 2012 - 09:28 PM

[Mr.Dis]

All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah, on 28 February 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

It must be through Ally. They charge a stupid fee to buy out. We leased my wife's Yukon and they switched me to US Bank when I refused to sign anything with that fee. For us, the lease was a HUGE benefit. We got another $3000 in rebates and .9 interest on the lease. It was almost $5k cheaper in the end over traditional financing. We do intend to keep it so the $2500 was a no go for us. Ask them to check another leasing company. But how is this going to help you if you still need a third car for the Mom?
ETA - Can you try to sell it (the Tahoe) yourself? We were trying to find a used one when buying my wife's 2012 Yukon but the used one's were selling for an insane amount and everyone we called about was already sold, this was in November. It would be worth a shot... We sold my wife's 2011 Acadia Denali in November for four thousand less than we paid for it and it was a year old. It sold in two weeks for full asking price.

We are still working on the contract. They are supposed to redo the lease with the other company. It will take the per mile fee fo overages from .15 cent to .20 cent but will cut the "residual Fee" to $1200 instead of $2500. Better but not great. That is the reason that we are now considering a straight purchase as well. It would go up about $40 / month at 6.5% (I just picked that amount).

My mon said she did not want to watch my son but would for this year as much as possible. There are only like 20 days left in this school year that he would require watching but she flat out refused to drive the Tahoe rendering the need for a 3rd vehicle a moot point. So at this point my wife has decided that it is in our best finacial benefit to trade / sell the Tahoe and still purchase the car. Yes the payments will go down either way and yes it will save on gas. No arguement from me. But she WANTED the Tahoe less than a year and a half ago.

As for the resale / trade in goes I am torn. In a straight purchase the trade in has a benefit with taxes. In this case th offer is for $25,000 trade. That means the first $25,000 of purchase is exempt fro the 7% sales tax or $1750. That means I would have to beat $26,750 in private party sales to match the trade in benefits. I was offerd $28,000 from Carmax a few months back. Bu under the terms of GMS employee pricing they set trade in at wholesale. I could go to Carmax and sell for cash but I would only benefit on the amount over $26,750. If they bought it for $27,000 I would net $250 more not $2000.

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

Mr.Dis, on 28 February 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

We are still working on the contract. They are supposed to redo the lease with the other company. It will take the per mile fee fo overages from .15 cent to .20 cent but will cut the "residual Fee" to $1200 instead of $2500. Better but not great. That is the reason that we are now considering a straight purchase as well. It would go up about $40 / month at 6.5% (I just picked that amount).

My mon said she did not want to watch my son but would for this year as much as possible. There are only like 20 days left in this school year that he would require watching but she flat out refused to drive the Tahoe rendering the need for a 3rd vehicle a moot point. So at this point my wife has decided that it is in our best finacial benefit to trade / sell the Tahoe and still purchase the car. Yes the payments will go down either way and yes it will save on gas. No arguement from me. But she WANTED the Tahoe less than a year and a half ago.

As for the resale / trade in goes I am torn. In a straight purchase the trade in has a benefit with taxes. In this case th offer is for $25,000 trade. That means the first $25,000 of purchase is exempt fro the 7% sales tax or $1750. That means I would have to beat $26,750 in private party sales to match the trade in benefits. I was offerd $28,000 from Carmax a few months back. Bu under the terms of GMS employee pricing they set trade in at wholesale. I could go to Carmax and sell for cash but I would only benefit on the amount over $26,750. If they bought it for $27,000 I would net $250 more not $2000.

If it is in good condition and has lower mileage with lots of equipment you can easily get more than that. We were looking at LT's with 15k miles on them that were a year or two old and couldn't find anything less than $30k. If it is a plain jane Tahoe, take the money and run!


You can also look for a slightly used by owner Malibu and save the sales tax all together. I typically traded because i didn't want to deal with the hassle of selling, but after making almost $4k more off the deal I am now a believer....

This post has been edited by All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah: 29 February 2012 - 10:14 AM

[Mr.Dis]

Well... we finally finished. Took the Tahoe to Carmax for cash offer. SURPRISINGLY... They offered $28,000 cash. We had decided to pursue a purchase rather than a lease. So I took their offer to the dealership. We agreed to $26,200 trade in over the original $25,000. the reason being that if I went to Carmax and sold for cash and brought cash to the table, I would have to pay the sales tax. If I trade with them I do not. We basically agreed to reduce the cash sale amount by the slaes tax amount. This made the deal more equitable for all parties. All in all we dropped our month payment by $135 even though we went with the purchase and not the lease and we hope to get 25 MPG rather than 15.

Just wanted to say thanks to all for your input. And BTW Snow White Really enjoyed her first day (today) back at work.

[NavyEagle#1]

Just glad you did not do a lease......

Only people that should lease are those that don't expect to go over the miles.... period

[CrabbyDaddy]

Leasing is not a good idea.

[All I Hear is Blah Blah Blah]

CrabbyDaddy, on 29 February 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

Leasing is not a good idea.

You couldn't be more wrong. Had you said "Leasing is not a good idea for some people" then you would be right. In a purchase you evaluate all situations and determine the best route for you. I had a leased Altima that I leased for two years at a far superior rate to traditional financing. At the end of the lease the car was worthless. I think trade in was $12k and the lease end value was $17k and I walked away from the car and let them eat that depreciation. Had I traditionally financed I would have owed almost $18k on the car and been even MORE upside down. I saved a TON by leasing..... The smart thing to do is explore all options because the one you are dismissing might actually have been the best deal....

[Ugadawgs98]

I would have really looked into a used "commuter" car. You can find great deals on 5 to 6 year old cars which still have many many reliable miles left in them at less that 1/3rd the new price. Keep the Tahoe for the family vehicle and have the one car just for her daily commute.

Glad it worked out though. I really hate buying and selling cars.

This post has been edited by Ugadawgs98: 01 March 2012 - 09:58 AM

[sadie612]

I had a 2008 Malibu and loved it... however I did miss my suv and traded it in in october ... I do miss onstar but I love suv.

[Mr.Dis]

sadie612, on 01 March 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

I had a 2008 Malibu and loved it... however I did miss my suv and traded it in in october ... I do miss onstar but I love suv.

Gas and all we should cut about $330 / month from the budget. we'll probably us it to pay off some other stuf real quick and then try to purchase a nice used SUV later.