[Mr.Dis]

A different topic got me thinking about how people view this.

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

Personally, I believe children do better in a household of happy people whether that is a husband/father and wife/mother or just a mother or just a father or even a gay couple. Stress, anger toward the other adult in the household, fights, arguments, etc are not good for kids. I actually get upset when people tell me they are staying together for the good of the kids. Bull. The kids will grow up healthier and happier with a happy, healthy parent even if both parents are not in the home.

There are many reasons a mother might not have custody of her children. Sending her to jail or making her pay support just might not be the right thing depending on WHY she doesn't have custody. In the case of my wife-in-law (my husband's ex) she was physically unable to take care of two kids under the age of 5, so custody was given to my husband. When she eventually was able to return to work, while she didn't pay child support TO us, she certainly paid more than her fair share of expenses related to the kids, and not just to her two! She bought things for our daughter as well, as did her mom. They treated her as if she was theirs when it came to providing for her.

[Mr.Dis]

Starr & Dru, on 22 February 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Personally, I believe children do better in a household of happy people whether that is a husband/father and wife/mother or just a mother or just a father or even a gay couple. Stress, anger toward the other adult in the household, fights, arguments, etc are not good for kids. I actually get upset when people tell me they are staying together for the good of the kids. Bull. The kids will grow up healthier and happier with a happy, healthy parent even if both parents are not in the home.

There are many reasons a mother might not have custody of her children. Sending her to jail or making her pay support just might not be the right thing depending on WHY she doesn't have custody. In the case of my wife-in-law (my husband's ex) she was physically unable to take care of two kids under the age of 5, so custody was given to my husband. When she eventually was able to return to work, while she didn't pay child support TO us, she certainly paid more than her fair share of expenses related to the kids, and not just to her two! She bought things for our daughter as well, as did her mom. They treated her as if she was theirs when it came to providing for her.

Some of those questions are because of the deadbeat dad laws. I personally believe society is more willing to go after the dads for nonpayment and toss them into jail than the woman.

[zoocrew]

Then debtors prison is the answer for deadbeat dads? The money never gets repaid then. But let's write laws that sound like the Wild West and make people feel good instead of handling the problem.

[Mr.Dis]

zoocrew, on 22 February 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

Then debtors prison is the answer for deadbeat dads? The money never gets repaid then. But let's write laws that sound like the Wild West and make people feel good instead of handling the problem.

You did know that that is currently the law correct? A male that does not pay his child support can be trown into jail. I did not write the law nor did I say I supported or opposed it. I only stated that I felt a dad would be persued and prosecuted faster than a woman.

[LGM]

I said I wasn't biased, but I may have been biased in the dad's favor more than the mom's.
In my situation, child support hasn't always been an option. In one situation, his bills exceeded his income (basic bills, not even a cell phone for 'extra'), and he was supposed to pay almost $600 a month in child support. I didn't take a penny. I couldn't, morally (in my own, personal opinion). Kiddo was taken care of, and he had a roof over his head that allowed for kiddo to have visitation with him. In another situation, kiddo's dad was/is unemployed. I received/receive a bit from the unemployment check to help with some of the expenses (tad bit...it helps with formula, basically. lol) because he can't stand not giving me money, but I can't see demanding money from someone who doesn't have any. In my 7 years of parenting and 3 years of being a 'single mom', I've gone a total of a year and eight months without child support between the two kids due to job loss or their jobs only paying $8 an hour.

Sometimes I get bitchy. Raising kids is expensive and stressful, and sometimes I get a little hot-headed about it because of the stress.... but, 99% of the time I'm pretty darn agreeable. If they can't pay, they can't pay. On the flip side, anytime I've needed something 'extra' (like Thing 1's softball costs) that isn't an agreed-upon cost, I know I can count on help as well. I've gone out of my way to cover expenses dad 'should' have covered, and dad has gone out of his way to cover expenses I need help with when he has the funds.

I could never see sending a dad to jail if there's cooperation, communication, and understanding. If dad 'can't' pay, but can go out to bike night every week or has a $500 car payment? Yeah, there'd be a discussion that might be followed by a report to CSS. Kids come first. I drive a 13-year-old, paid-for car for a reason. Luckily, I reproduced with men who (mostly) agree.

I also had a hard time with the 'stable' question. I believe children need stability, I do not believe they 'need' two parents under one roof. Two parents who cooperate and communicate (if there are two parents - single parents raise perfectly healthy, happy children), but not necessarily two under one roof, but that's my opinion.

[janko9]

What chaps my a** is that us dads basically dont have any rights. That was said to me by a Gwinnett Cnty judge, even after having 6 cnty sherrifs testify on my behalf along w/ my exs parents and her friends. Also what gets me is when you pay support for one child and the ex buys a 72" TV, outside hot tub, new car, brand new house etc but your child eats mac and cheese every night and only time she gets new clothes is when we buy them, and you and the kids you have with current wife share a POS car, and struggle every month to meet our ends in this house.

This post has been edited by janko9: 22 February 2012 - 06:32 PM

[Garden Girl]

janko9, on 22 February 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

What chaps my a** is that us dads basically dont have any rights.Also what gets me is when you pay support for one child and the ex buys a 72" TV, outside hot tub, new car, brand new house etc but your child eats mac and cheese every night and wears cheezety clothes, and you and the kids you have with current wife share a POS car, and struggle every month to meet our ends in this house. I'm sure I will get a comeback comment from someone who thinks they are above me on this one.

Nope, I can relate . I am a woman, a grandmother as matter of fact, step son got married in 95, to a woman and had 2 kids. marriage lasted until 02. he was ordered to pay 800.00 a month to mother. He met another one and had 4 kids with that one. Now I have guardianship of these 4. Where he went wrong. If you are paying support for 2 @ 800 a month, do not have anymore until you can afford it.I know a deadbeat dad right now that is getting visitation but is not worried that his son is eating ,clothing, etc. As long as he gets him every other weekend. And he has a county job too.He has not even offer a bag of diapers.This child is better off without his dad as long as there are male role models and male mentors in his life.
I have seen the moms that seem to have everything and it seems as if they do spend the child support any way they want, but In my eyes, child support is to give the child a home, food, school,clothing, etc.meet the childs needs. If the child does not have these things met then shame on the parent.
child has this then the obligation is being met.
The mother that recieves 800 a month from my stepson has been foreclosed on, and now being threatened with eviction. But she does have her hair colored, cut and nails done.And often attends concerts with my 12 yo granddaughter. Need I say more.

[janko9]

Balloons on Demand, on 22 February 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

Nope, I can relate . I am a woman, a grandmother as matter of fact, step son got married in 95, to a woman and had 2 kids. marriage lasted until 02. he was ordered to pay 800.00 a month to mother. He met another one and had 4 kids with that one. Now I have guardianship of these 4. Where he went wrong. If you are paying support for 2 @ 800 a month, do not have anymore until you can afford it.I know a deadbeat dad right now that is getting visitation but is not worried that his son is eating ,clothing, etc. As long as he gets him every other weekend. And he has a county job too.He has not even offer a bag of diapers.This child is better off without his dad as long as there are male role models and male mentors in his life.
I have seen the moms that seem to have everything and it seems as if they do spend the child support any way they want, but In my eyes, child support is to give the child a home, food, school,clothing, etc.meet the childs needs. If the child does not have these things met then shame on the parent.
child has this then the obligation is being met.
The mother that recieves 800 a month from my stepson has been foreclosed on, and now being threatened with eviction. But she does have her hair colored, cut and nails done.And often attends concerts with my 12 yo granddaughter. Need I say more.

Things were better before I left a VERY good job in NC to come here to keep an eye on things a little better since the court failed. After moving here is when I found out what all our hard earned money went to and who it didn't get spent on.Before court I was paying $400 a month, then after it jumped to 800 for one child.

This post has been edited by janko9: 22 February 2012 - 06:52 PM

[zoocrew]

Mr.Dis, on 22 February 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

You did know that that is currently the law correct? A male that does not pay his child support can be trown into jail. I did not write the law nor did I say I supported or opposed it. I only stated that I felt a dad would be persued and prosecuted faster than a woman.

Yes, I did. And the law needs to be changed. See the posts above. Politicians writing feel good laws to get re-elected and play on the emotions like yours. It needs to stop.

[deewee]

janko9, on 22 February 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

What chaps my a** is that us dads basically dont have any rights. That was said to me by a Gwinnett Cnty judge, even after having 6 cnty sherrifs testify on my behalf along w/ my exs parents and her friends. Also what gets me is when you pay support for one child and the ex buys a 72" TV, outside hot tub, new car, brand new house etc but your child eats mac and cheese every night and only time she gets new clothes is when we buy them, and you and the kids you have with current wife share a POS car, and struggle every month to meet our ends in this house.

I know many judges would say that it's none of the non-custodial parent's business how the money is spent but I strongly disagree. I think if support is being paid then the parent receiving the support should be held accountable, especially if there is suspicion about how that money is being used.

This post has been edited by deewee: 22 February 2012 - 07:26 PM

[momof 3]

I was on a jury where the 'mother' was suing her ex husband for more child support. When she left the marriage, she had a 2 year old van that was paid for, a home with a $600.00 mortgage payment and she had her kids in ASP so she could work.

A month after she left, with the paid for van, she traded it on a Shelby Mustang, with a $700.00 a month payment in addition to another $320.00 per month for insurance and moved to an $1100.00 a month apartment. She tried to convince the court that she was paying $85.00 dollars a week, per child, for ASP. In fact, at the time, ASP was $5.00 per day per kid. She also said that lunch for her kids was $20.00 a week for school lunch......lying hag. The stories just went on and on.

Her ex paid for all their clothes, medical ins., school supplies, etc. Needless to say, instead of getting an increase in her monthly payments, she got a decrease. In the jury's view, she didn't deserve an extra cent to pay for HER lifestyle. A Shelby Mustang with 2 kids? Give me a break!

[Mr.Dis]

zoocrew, on 22 February 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

Yes, I did. And the law needs to be changed. See the posts above. Politicians writing feel good laws to get re-elected and play on the emotions like yours. It needs to stop.

Care to explain the Emotions like mine comment? Youseem to think that you know what I'm thinking. I just wanted to double check if you were right or wrong about it.

[zoocrew]

Mr.Dis, on 22 February 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

Care to explain the Emotions like mine comment? Youseem to think that you know what I'm thinking. I just wanted to double check if you were right or wrong about it.

No. I don't care to explain. I think the comment speaks for itself. You are easily manipulated in the political realm.

[Mr.Dis]

zoocrew, on 22 February 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

No. I don't care to explain. I think the comment speaks for itself. You are easily manipulated in the political realm.

well we know what they say about opinions...

Didn't think you would explain. You never have the nerve to actually explain your comments unlike me. So who do you think that implies is easily manipulated. I can articulate what I think, Why I think it and support it with documented sources. I don't see the same from you.

Heck... I even came up with this poll, all by my itty bitty brainless self, with no help from anyone else. Where is your poll trying to get a feel for a topic of concern for you? Here's mine. And you've even been reading and posting in it. Someone around here is actually trying to learn about and understand things rather than just taking potshots at folks with no explanation.

[momnteacher]

I personally think that if child support and any government support were tied to school attendance, our school drop out rate would be MUCH lower.

I have no doubt that if my husband's ex's child support would have stopped when she let my step daughter quit school, the child at least have her high school diploma right now. The same goes for the government support that she got at the time. Instead, we had to pay child support on a 19 yr old person that was living at home and doing Nothing.

As an educator, this burnt my rear Big Time.

As for a child needing a two parent home, I disagree to some point. I was a MUCH better and happier single parent than I was a married parent when I was married to my son's sperm donor. After he left, my son even made the comment that things were better for he (my son) and me. I was very fortunate that my son had 2 grandfathers and I had some male friends that didn't mind spending time with him and teaching him "guy" things. In the end, I married a wonderful man who adopted DS so things really worked out for the best.

I have a son in law that has 4 kids that he claims and says that he has several others that the women said he fathered and he does not support a single one of them....not even the 4 that he claims. After having all of his and my step daughter's income taxes taken by the government last year to pay for child support on the youngest child, he has figured out that if he works for cash only and my step daughter files by herself, he gets to keep all of his money (what little he makes when he does get off he sorry rear and work) and he does not have to man up and support his kids. I have often thought about asking my step daughter how her mom and she would have liked it if her dad had pulled this crap with her when she was growing up.

Okay, off my soap box.

[Mr.Dis]

momnteacher, on 22 February 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I personally think that if child support and any government support were tied to school attendance, our school drop out rate would be MUCH lower.

I have no doubt that if my husband's ex's child support would have stopped when she let my step daughter quit school, the child at least have her high school diploma right now. The same goes for the government support that she got at the time. Instead, we had to pay child support on a 19 yr old person that was living at home and doing Nothing.

As an educator, this burnt my rear Big Time.

As for a child needing a two parent home, I disagree to some point. I was a MUCH better and happier single parent than I was a married parent when I was married to my son's sperm donor. After he left, my son even made the comment that things were better for he (my son) and me. I was very fortunate that my son had 2 grandfathers and I had some male friends that didn't mind spending time with him and teaching him "guy" things. In the end, I married a wonderful man who adopted DS so things really worked out for the best.

I have a son in law that has 4 kids that he claims and says that he has several others that the women said he fathered and he does not support a single one of them....not even the 4 that he claims. After having all of his and my step daughter's income taxes taken by the government last year to pay for child support on the youngest child, he has figured out that if he works for cash only and my step daughter files by herself, he gets to keep all of his money (what little he makes when he does get off he sorry rear and work) and he does not have to man up and support his kids. I have often thought about asking my step daughter how her mom and she would have liked it if her dad had pulled this crap with her when she was growing up.

Okay, off my soap box.

You know, when I came up with the poll, I did not consider that point. I really do see it as a quite valid point and agree that sometimes it might just be in the child's better interests to not have to be in a family setting where one parent is really a very poor parent and a terrible influence on the child. If I had, i would have tried to put in an option that took that into account. By the time I gave it more thought, the poll had so many votes that changing the options for that question would have messed up the responses. Sorry. But on the other side, I truly hope that those cases would be very few and far in between. I truly believe that the majority of children would be much better off in a LOVING, STABLE and FUNCTIONAL family with both parents. Or as the case with myself a loving step parent that replaced a deceased bilogical parent. That does not preclude same sex families either. There needs to be a model of parental love and respect within the home that the child can use as a model for future use. But I still feel that a Male / Female parental team is more flexible in child rearing as it provides ready access to both male and female points of view.

[Thoughts]

I really can't relate to any of this personally. I have 4 children that I have always been there for and supported on one pay check. I always had an advantage of having a house paid for and a large family on both sides for support at times. I know the stories about women having litters of kids for government assistance and I don't have any easy answers. But it does grind my nerves at any suggestion that the government become involved in the decision on wither or not to have children based on ones income. Early in my marriage I had a stable job and we did fine. But right after my 2nd child was born I lost my job and we had to go on food stamps. I soon found some work that really didn't pay like the first but we got by and decided to have another child. We caught hell for it, basically we were accused of just having a child for the financial gain from the government (all we ever had were food stamps). But who gives a sh#t what anybody else thought. Not long after I got my current job and the pay was more than ample for supporting three kids. Then we had the last one and no regrets, we wanted a large family and that's what we got. F*ck what anybody else said. My situ changed and allowed me to support all of my children together with my wife and mother of all of my children. I realize my story and situ are mine and it worked out in the end but the thought of a government regulating family size or children really just rubs me there wrong way personally. I have a friend who has always wanted children but her husband has always said no citing finances among other excuses, so she's now is heading towards the end of her child bearing years. All I can do is feel sorry for her. Places like China that HAVE imposed a one child only policy and has generated a generation of orphan girls and forced pregnancy terminations...

[Starr & Dru's Nana]

In the absence of two loving, stable or functional parents, one is very often the best solution for the children. If neither parent respects the other, that is also detrimental on the children.

I am a stepmother who replaced a loving, living biological mother. She was simply unable to take care of the children due to her own health issues. Our kids were fortunate in that they had two loving mothers and a loving dad. Their maternal grandmother was also very active in their lives and a great person. Their biological mom would have given her right arm to have been capable of taking care of them but since she wasn't, she did everything she could to see that they had all the emotional and financial support she could provide. The three of us worked as a team to raise those girls. I just wish all stepfamilies were as fortunate as we were and would work as hard to make things work as we did. It wasn't easy but we tried to keep in mind what was best for the kids and not best for our own egos.

I, too, believe that a male/female parental unit is the best idea for raising children BUT if a loving, stable and functional relationship is male/male or female/female, that's fine, too.

Mr.Dis, on 22 February 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

I truly believe that the majority of children would be much better off in a LOVING, STABLE and FUNCTIONAL family with both parents. Or as the case with myself a loving step parent that replaced a deceased bilogical parent. That does not preclude same sex families either. There needs to be a model of parental love and respect within the home that the child can use as a model for future use. But I still feel that a Male / Female parental team is more flexible in child rearing as it provides ready access to both male and female points of view.

[momnteacher]

Mr.Dis, on 22 February 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

You know, when I came up with the poll, I did not consider that point. I really do see it as a quite valid point and agree that sometimes it might just be in the child's better interests to not have to be in a family setting where one parent is really a very poor parent and a terrible influence on the child. If I had, i would have tried to put in an option that took that into account. By the time I gave it more thought, the poll had so many votes that changing the options for that question would have messed up the responses. Sorry. But on the other side, I truly hope that those cases would be very few and far in between. I truly believe that the majority of children would be much better off in a LOVING, STABLE and FUNCTIONAL family with both parents. Or as the case with myself a loving step parent that replaced a deceased bilogical parent. That does not preclude same sex families either. There needs to be a model of parental love and respect within the home that the child can use as a model for future use. But I still feel that a Male / Female parental team is more flexible in child rearing as it provides ready access to both male and female points of view.

I agree that a child needs two loving parents in the home if at all possible. I stayed my 1st marriage 4 years longer than I should have, trying to make it work. My husband step parent adopted my son soon after he turned 7 years old...my ex offered rights if that tells you anything. 12 years later, my little boy is headed for Navy boot camp July 2 to be a Navy Nuke. Apparently, I and my husband did something pretty decent. My 5 year old DD is a two parent child through and through. She is a child that needs both my and her daddy. Thankfully, we have no intentions of making her a single parent kid. My son has plenty of friends that consider her their little sister so even when he leaves, she will still have some big brothers to watch over and help out with her.

As far as what sex the parents are......I know gay and lesbian couples that have the ability to give the child both perspectives regardless of their physical gender.

[zoocrew]

momnteacher, on 22 February 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

I agree that a child needs two loving parents in the home if at all possible. I stayed my 1st marriage 4 years longer than I should have, trying to make it work. My husband step parent adopted my son soon after he turned 7 years old...my ex offered rights if that tells you anything. 12 years later, my little boy is headed for Navy boot camp July 2 to be a Navy Nuke. Apparently, I and my husband did something pretty decent. My 5 year old DD is a two parent child through and through. She is a child that needs both my and her daddy. Thankfully, we have no intentions of making her a single parent kid. My son has plenty of friends that consider her their little sister so even when he leaves, she will still have some big brothers to watch over and help out with her.

As far as what sex the parents are......I know gay and lesbian couples that have the ability to give the child both perspectives regardless of their physical gender.

Thank you!

Plus 10

[Mr.Dis]

momnteacher, on 22 February 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

I agree that a child needs two loving parents in the home if at all possible. I stayed my 1st marriage 4 years longer than I should have, trying to make it work. My husband step parent adopted my son soon after he turned 7 years old...my ex offered rights if that tells you anything. 12 years later, my little boy is headed for Navy boot camp July 2 to be a Navy Nuke. Apparently, I and my husband did something pretty decent. My 5 year old DD is a two parent child through and through. She is a child that needs both my and her daddy. Thankfully, we have no intentions of making her a single parent kid. My son has plenty of friends that consider her their little sister so even when he leaves, she will still have some big brothers to watch over and help out with her.

As far as what sex the parents are......I know gay and lesbian couples that have the ability to give the child both perspectives regardless of their physical gender.

As far as the bolded part... I know that when it comes to the day that my darling daughter will need assistance with the "real world" use, application and handling of feminine hygiene products, I might know what things are and what they do but I would be totally useless with my ability to demonstrate the proper use of those nor do I think she would like for me to do so.

[Mr.Dis]

zoocrew, on 22 February 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

Thank you!

Plus 10

Typical.... even though I specificaly stated my support of that possibility and those parents being able to successfully handle all situations, you act like I gave them an insult but give the very next person that voiced support for them a plus 10. You just can't help but show your disdain for me and it shows.

[rockysmom]

Mr.Dis, on 22 February 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

As far as the bolded part... I know that when it comes to the day that my darling daughter will need assistance with the "real world" use, application and handling of feminine hygiene products, I might know what things are and what they do but I would be totally useless with my ability to demonstrate the proper use of those nor do I think she would like for me to do so.

That is not the role of a father, it is the role of a mother. And no, she does not want you to have anything to do with it.

[Mr.Dis]

rockysmom, on 22 February 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

That is not the role of a father, it is the role of a mother. And no, she does not want you to have anything to do with it.

And that was my point exactly. Thank you!! That therefore at least proves that a male / male parental group, even though they would be perfectally able to handle 95 - 99% of all things a parent would be rquired to do, that it does indeed lacs the inheirent flexiblity provided by a male / female parental group. Some things in life are just better with a male parent while others need a female. And that is all I stated about that.

[zoocrew]

Mr.Dis, on 22 February 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

Typical.... even though I specificaly stated my support of that possibility and those parents being able to successfully handle all situations, you act like I gave them an insult but give the very next person that voiced support for them a plus 10. You just can't help but show your disdain for me and it shows.

No, it was simply a comment commending what was said. If you think that shows disdain for you, that speaks to your problem, not mine.

[Mr.Dis]

zoocrew, on 22 February 2012 - 10:59 PM, said:

No, it was simply a comment commending what was said. If you think that shows disdain for you, that speaks to your problem, not mine.

no you commended (+ 10) momnteacher for saying basically thesame thing as I did in the very next post. But if you want to edit it to include Mr. Dis I would gladly give you a very big thank you.

[zoocrew]

Mr.Dis, on 22 February 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

no you commended (+ 10) momnteacher for saying basically thesame thing as I did in the very next post. But if you want to edit it to include Mr. Dis I would gladly give you a very big thank you.

Whatever. Have a good evening.

[momnteacher]

Mr.Dis, on 22 February 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

And that was my point exactly. Thank you!! That therefore at least proves that a male / male parental group, even though they would be perfectly able to handle 95 - 99% of all things a parent would be required to do, that it does indeed lacks the inherent flexibility provided by a male / female parental group. Some things in life are just better with a male parent while others need a female. And that is all I stated about that.

Here is my point...As a single mom to a boy, I had male family members and friends that taught my son how to do "male things" such as stand up and pee. My bio dad was a single parent to my little sister (her mom was not in the picture during her teenage years) and he had me, as well as other female friends and family members, that taught my little sister how to do "female things" that he was unable to teach her.

Do you not think that gay/lesbian couples are in the same situations?

When the rubber hits the pavement, what is most important is that the child/children is/ are in a stable, caring, functional family/ parenting situation.
I know heterosexual married couples that have no business having kids and gay/lesbian couples that would make Great parents.

[Mr.Dis]

zoocrew, on 22 February 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

Whatever. Have a good evening.

SEE... YOU just can't bring your self to do it can you?!? I told you... Your disdain for me knows no bounds and you only CHOOSE to see what you see as negative from me while totally dismissing ANYTHING that even you would think was good from someone other than myself.

[zoocrew]

Mr.Dis, on 22 February 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

SEE... YOU just can't bring your self to do it can you?!? I told you... Your disdain for me knows no bounds and you only CHOOSE to see what you see as negative from me while totally dismissing ANYTHING that even you would think was good from someone other than myself.

Pretty much you're right.

[Mr.Dis]

momnteacher, on 22 February 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

Here is my point...As a single mom to a boy, I had male family members and friends that taught my son how to do "male things" such as stand up and pee. My bio dad was a single parent to my little sister (her mom was not in the picture during her teenage years) and he had me, as well as other female friends and family members, that taught my little sister how to do "female things" that he was unable to teach her.

Do you not think that gay/lesbian couples are in the same situations?

When the rubber hits the pavement, what is most important is that the child/children is/ are in a stable, caring, functional family/ parenting situation.
I know heterosexual married couples that have no business having kids and gay/lesbian couples that would make Great parents.

I do not disagree that most people can always GO OUTSIDE their HOUSEHOLD to get that information. However, the point I was making that in a male / female household that would prove to be unecessary because both parent's sexes are ALREADY within the household making it MORE FLEXIBLE (not more capable) than the other 2 options. That in no way should be taken as male / male or female / female would be incapable of HANDLING all issues that come before them.

[Mr.Dis]

zoocrew, on 22 February 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

Pretty much you're right.

Then considering your admission that you only see the negatives and are incapable of seeing the positives from me, quit wasting mine and everyone elses time with your bigotry (look it up, you are being purposely bigoted towards me) in your responses to me and put me back on ignore. And considering this is MY TOPIC, I will report any post from you that is aimed at or responds to any of my comments in this topic. Nite nite.

[zoocrew]

Mr.Dis, on 22 February 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Then considering your admission that you only see the negatives and are incapable of seeing the positives from me, quit wasting mine and everyone elses time with your bigotry (look it up, you are being purposely bigoted towards me) in your responses to me and put me back on ignore. And considering this is MY TOPIC, I will report any post from you that is aimed at or responds to any of my comments in this topic. Nite nite.

Open board. I'll post to anything I like.

This post has been edited by Miss Crump: 22 February 2012 - 11:33 PM
Reason for edit: Off topic comments that are more banter than discussion are not allowed in the Cafe.

[PUBBY]

There is no substitute for character.

That said, the issues involving children, not just in this country but the world, tied to social, religious, political and economic realities of a complexity that would confound a saint and drive a sane man crazy.

Consider the children born in places like Somalia or Darfur region in Africa. Ask yourself if you were in a refugee camp in sub-Saharan desert having been driven off the land that your parents, grand parents and family had lived for twenty, forty, hundred generations. You're sitting in a refugee camp, living in a tent. There is no electricity or much else. Certainly there are no jobs. Worse yet there is no birth control save the malnutrition and filth that conspire to make or keep you so ill you can't consider sex ... yet what got you there was the murder of your husband and the rape of you and other women in your village.

Guess what, you're pregnant as a result of that rape.

All the while the world's population continues to increase exponentially so that today there are more people alive than ever before.

I know this topic is one about the micro-social issues that exist in our local culture but the real challenge in regard to children today is that macro-social reality that there are more children in the world today than there were people in 1950.

What perplexes me is that what ever we do on a individual, personal and local level has to be consistent with what we are willing to do in the context of the big picture. I don't see that context in the poll or in the discussion.

pubby

[Just thinkin' hard]

Mr.Dis, on 22 February 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

As far as the bolded part... I know that when it comes to the day that my darling daughter will need assistance with the "real world" use, application and handling of feminine hygiene products, I might know what things are and what they do but I would be totally useless with my ability to demonstrate the proper use of those nor do I think she would like for me to do so.

This reminds me of a story of a dad with a daughter (mom had passed away). I'm not going to share the story just in case someone involved is on here. But, lets just say that she was set up for about 10 years and he was completely overwhelmed. But, at the end of the day, she'll be okay.

You know - I'm sure you could find a youtube video to help out. Seems like everything else is on youtube.

[Mr.Dis]

Just thinkin, on 23 February 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

This reminds me of a story of a dad with a daughter (mom had passed away). I'm not going to share the story just in case someone involved is on here. But, lets just say that she was set up for about 10 years and he was completely overwhelmed. But, at the end of the day, she'll be okay.

You know - I'm sure you could find a youtube video to help out. Seems like everything else is on youtube.

Thanks but we're good. I am still married, well until I forget her birthday next month anyway. And I have 2 sisters, a mom, neices that are 23, 25 and 42. I think we can handle the practical part.

[deewee]

Why do some people, who clearly can't get along with someone else, make it their mission to go into their threads and start a pissing match?

[DallasRED]

My views...I had kids till I had some of each sex. It took me 3 tries but now I have 2 handsome sons and a beautiful little girl.

The GOVT/CHURCH has no say so in how many I have and how few I don't have.

[janko9]

DC...RED, on 23 February 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

My views...I had kids till I had some of each sex. It took me 3 tries but now I have 2 handsome sons and a beautiful little girl.

The GOVT/CHURCH has no say so in how many I have and how few I don't have.

After 3 girls, I'm still waiting on my football player. Oh well guess I will always wait. 3 is enough