warning its a long one
I'm not disagreeing with you that it does make it easier for everyone. Trust me I KNOW it does. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, in our current society information changes quickly. Many books are outdated in a short time. It is not feasible for systems to constantly purchase new books in EVERY subject area. Its just not going to happen unless they go to Ebooks.
Also, teachers can not teach straight from text books anymore. For many reasons, teachers pull from many sources for teaching material, even if an up-to-date text is available. We have to help students use multimedia in learning, so all, even most lessons are not going to be in the book. We're not supposed to teach the "old way." The days of chapter 1 lesson 1 problems 1-5, chapter 2 lesson 3 problems 1-10, chapter 3... are over.
Many college, university, and technical school libraries are moving away from storehousing thousands of books for students to check out. More and more, these schools don't have libraries and librarians, they have media centers and media experts who help students access electronic information for research. This seems to be where we're heading, toward electronic information and away from books. I don't like many things about it either and the old way is so much less stressful.
I do think my test scores would go up if I had a text book and workbooks that contained all of the standards. What I wouldn't give most days to be able to follow a book and be given easy resources for students to use like we used to have. Most textbooks now even have an online version. That would be sooo nice to have. I think students would have a better knowledge of the factual information...IF THEY WILL STAY FOCUSED ON A BOOK. (that is a big IF)
BUT I don't know what we would be sacrificing for better test scores. I don't know if actual books will be used much in the future. Would we be teaching them to use antiquated resources, because that's what we are more comfortable using? Are we hamstringing them for the real future, for the sake of test scores? Would we be better off not putting money into books and getting computers for classrooms??? (there's not much money for either right now) I don't know. I do know that most kids now will focus a lot longer on a computer screen or even a Kindle, than a paper book. (but I don't want it to be that way )
They will regret not having books if there is a major cyber attack. You may think that I need a tin foil hat for saying that but it is very possible. I know how much effort and how much time it took to get the math program changed. I think you know there will be major change within the next year or so. I know that the teachers do not control these things but it helps when they speak up for the right changes. Test scores only indicate whether the students are learning or not. We should not shoot the messenger because we do not like the message. In the mean time my family will continue to go around the public school system to give the best education to the children in my family and I will keep working for more and better choices. I think you are probably a very good teacher.
I want to know why they don't give the students little individual chalk boards like they did in the past? They were great for taking tests on, etc. I say if it was good enough 100 years ago, it should be good enough now!
Chalk can cause allergies
It would have to be mini dry erase boards and markers.
I want to know why they don't give the students little individual chalk boards like they did in the past? They were great for taking tests on, etc. I say if it was good enough 100 years ago, it should be good enough now!
Now they get dry erase boards.....and call it progress.
While I complained about the lack of books, I recognize books are extremely expensive. I remember schools using the same books for 5, 6, 7 years. That won't happen now and the cost has gone through the roof. The same people complaining about not having books would be the first squealing about taxes going up to pay for them. (And PLEASE don't start on all the resources used for sports--those are not paid for by our tax dollars. They are paid for by entry fees and booster clubs.)
I actually attended a school district back "in the day" where parents had to buy the books for their own kids. We expect it now, but it's just another entitlement......just doesn't feel like one, because we are so used to it being provided.
So.....I do believe the internet will be the "book source" of the future. Communicate with your teachers, counselors and admin and be proactive with your own kids. I'm not laying blame on either side, but at the end of the day, they are your kids.
This post has been edited by Barbed wire: 03 November 2011 - 09:15 PM
I want to know why they don't give the students little individual chalk boards like they did in the past? They were great for taking tests on, etc. I say if it was good enough 100 years ago, it should be good enough now!
Soon (very soon) they will all be given laptops. Trust me.
They will regret not having books if there is a major cyber attack. You may think that I need a tin foil hat for saying that but it is very possible. I know how much effort and how much time it took to get the math program changed. I think you know there will be major change within the next year or so. I know that the teachers do not control these things but it helps when they speak up for the right changes. Test scores only indicate whether the students are learning or not. We should not shoot the messenger because we do not like the message. In the mean time my family will continue to go around the public school system to give the best education to the children in my family and I will keep working for more and better choices. I think you are probably a very good teacher.
This is a subject I deal with EVERY day. Parents WANT to help students with their work, but they don't have books at home. They want books, and I can give them a book, but what we're doing is not in the book, so its no use to even bother. We have pretty much given up on assigning homework because of the difficulties. I WANT a book and resources that go with it. As it works out now, students have less independence in learning, because they are totally dependent on the teacher for information. I do understand the reasons why I don't have an up-to-date book, but I don't like it. I want students to know how to use a book, because they don't now. I don't care that they find books boring, because they NEED to know how to use a book!! At least I think so.
I've been told its bad teaching to have students read and answer questions from the book and I had better not be caught doing it that way. I'm not sure I agree with that, but I'm not the boss,so I do as I'm told. (I like my boss, but I don't always have to agree 100%) I think its ok to do it that way sometimes so students are able to read and answer questions from a book, and they learn some independence in doing their work, as long as its not done that way ALL of the time. I'm told to bring in resources from as many different places and types of media as I can to help students learn to use different formats. It would make it easier if we had more access to student computers.
I see where we're headed in the future, and I think we may not use books much. I see that most students are more accustomed to electronic info than the paper info that we used,and they need to be prepared for this in their future. However, I'm also a person who stockpiled for Y2K. I would buy farmland and keep seeds to grow food, if I had the money to do it, just in case the economy tanks and I have to live off the land. I am buying my niece a Kindle so she will read more, but don't want one for myself. I want books. I also wonder if we really are headed that way, or if something will happen and we'll go back to the "old way." I'm torn on the issue myself.
What I do know, whether its Paulding, State of GA, or most other systems in the US, right now most schools are moving away from old style text books and towards Ipads and ebooks. I'll take it, as long as its something I can use for my students that's up to date. I just don't see our system affording computers for each student, unless we do something drastic like going to 4 day school weeks.
Kim Cobb was elected while working for the BOE. She had to quit after she was elected. None of the above is an excuse to keep a bad program and failing to provide the proper materials for a child to learn. The Federal/State governments bear most of that responsibility.
Maybe it's more accurate to say you can run if you work for the system, but you can't serve in both if elected.
being nosey, on 03 November 2011 - 07:51 AM, said:
Speaking of math books. I was in the hallway of a high school in paulding county a couple of weeks ago listening to the AP & honors math teachers complain about not having books. They were talking about how hard it is for the students to learn with out books. We seemed to have forgotten that school is not only about football games or turning the lunchroom into a rec./lounge room...
This is a subject I deal with EVERY day. Parents WANT to help students with their work, but they don't have books at home. They want books, and I can give them a book, but what we're doing is not in the book, so its no use to even bother. We have pretty much given up on assigning homework because of the difficulties. I WANT a book and resources that go with it. As it works out now, students have less independence in learning, because they are totally dependent on the teacher for information. I do understand the reasons why I don't have an up-to-date book, but I don't like it. I want students to know how to use a book, because they don't now. I don't care that they find books boring, because they NEED to know how to use a book!! At least I think so.
I've been told its bad teaching to have students read and answer questions from the book and I had better not be caught doing it that way. I'm not sure I agree with that, but I'm not the boss,so I do as I'm told. (I like my boss, but I don't always have to agree 100%) I think its ok to do it that way sometimes so students are able to read and answer questions from a book, and they learn some independence in doing their work, as long as its not done that way ALL of the time. I'm told to bring in resources from as many different places and types of media as I can to help students learn to use different formats. It would make it easier if we had more access to student computers.
I can see the parents' frustration. My discussion with you (if you were my child's teacher) is that you have to come up with this stuff from somewhere, even if it is multiple resources. And, by coming up with your own materials, I would EXPECT you as their teacher to be able to give the students copies of this information if you wanted them to do homework about it so they would have something to look back on for an explanation. I know might sound harsh and that you "might not have time," but some of the burden lies with the teacher and the school to make sure that the kids have access to what they are learning. If the parents need to provide paper for copies, then the parents need to step up. We just have to stop making excuses and come up with a way to make it WORK, not a way to pass the blame back and forth between the school, the
I totally understand where the e-splost money can only be used for school facilities. Paulding has come a long way in getting rid of most trailer style classrooms, however, many class sizes are still over the recommended limit. Overcrowded classes and lack of books can frustrate teachers, parents and students. Many property owners don't want their taxes to go up because they see where the board of education has had Taj-Mahal style schools built. Today's new schools are much nicer today than what we were accustomed to 35 years ago.
Bottom line is the Board of Education says they need more funding, but many taxpayers see nice Taj-Mahal schools and say they've got enough of our tax money. There's a disconnect and the ESPLOST needs to be amended so books and salaries for more teachers can be funded by the one penny sales tax rather than being funded by only property taxes.
Which elected representitive can amend the ESPLOST to include salaries for teachers and books for students?
This post has been edited by Angel Eyes: 04 November 2011 - 10:32 AM
"I think we agree, the past is over."
George W. Bush
Soon (very soon) they will all be given laptops. Trust me.
I doubt very seriously they will be given laptops, but my employers kids go to a private school. They were told this year that they would no longer have books for the kids and their texts can be found online. The only problem with this is that they have to be able to have the online text during class. So he had to go out and purchase tablets for his children for school. If you want a book (and I would have to have one), check out places like textbooks.com and Chegg.com. These are places that I rent my college textbooks from and they are much, much cheaper than purchasing books. They may possibly have some of these school textbooks that some of you all are looking for. I no longer have a dog in this fight, but if my child was struggling and needed a book, I would find one somewhere.
I doubt very seriously they will be given laptops, but my employers kids go to a private school. They were told this year that they would no longer have books for the kids and their texts can be found online. The only problem with this is that they have to be able to have the online text during class. So he had to go out and purchase tablets for his children for school. If you want a book (and I would have to have one), check out places like textbooks.com and Chegg.com. These are places that I rent my college textbooks from and they are much, much cheaper than purchasing books. They may possibly have some of these school textbooks that some of you all are looking for. I no longer have a dog in this fight, but if my child was struggling and needed a book, I would find one somewhere.
Westminster (big private school in Atlanta) is giving the kids laptops this year. I expect more to follow.
I totally understand where the e-splost money can only be used for school facilities. Paulding has come a long way in getting rid of most trailer style classrooms, however, many class sizes are still over the recommended limit. Overcrowded classes and lack of books can frustrate teachers, parents and students. Many property owners don't want their taxes to go up because they see where the board of education has had Taj-Mahal style schools built. Today's new schools are much nicer today than what we were accustomed to 35 years ago.
Bottom line is the Board of Education says they need more funding, but many taxpayers see nice Taj-Mahal schools and say they've got enough of our tax money. There's a disconnect and the ESPLOST needs to be amended so books and salaries for more teachers can be funded by the one penny sales tax rather than being funded by only property taxes.
Which elected representitive can amend the ESPLOST to include salaries for teachers and books for students?
Wow, there must be some schools in this county that I have not had the pleasure of seeing because I have never seen a "Taj-Mahal" school anywhere in this county (Cobb yes, here no). When you look at the environment that your kids are learning in, if we put them in the types of schools that we had 35 years ago, that would be the next fight on PCom. I feel great about the look of our schools these days. But the whole no book thing is a completely different conversation.
I can see the parents' frustration. My discussion with you (if you were my child's teacher) is that you have to come up with this stuff from somewhere, even if it is multiple resources. And, by coming up with your own materials, I would EXPECT you as their teacher to be able to give the students copies of this information if you wanted them to do homework about it so they would have something to look back on for an explanation. I know might sound harsh and that you "might not have time," but some of the burden lies with the teacher and the school to make sure that the kids have access to what they are learning. If the parents need to provide paper for copies, then the parents need to step up. We just have to stop making excuses and come up with a way to make it WORK, not a way to pass the blame back and forth between the school, the
Limited time is a big issue in teaching, but not so much in providing copies to students, its more of an issue of limited resources. We are VERY limited in our number of copies given to us each year. When you have over 130 students, those copies go fast, so we tend to use class sets and small copies to get more than 1 per sheet. The copies don't go home with the students, but I don't assign homework based on these copies. Mostly, we work off of powerpoints, video clips, and other information presented off of LCD projectors and now Smartboards. I do post as much as possible on a website so students can access it at home, if they have access to internet, but there are glitches with posting some info on our website. I don't know how to post everything. If a student has homework, they should have their own notes (usually copied from a powerpoint) to be able to do it. As I stated before, we don't usually assign homework, because #1 it does not get done, #2 resources are an issue.
I can see the parents' frustration. My discussion with you (if you were my child's teacher) is that you have to come up with this stuff from somewhere, even if it is multiple resources. And, by coming up with your own materials, I would EXPECT you as their teacher to be able to give the students copies of this information if you wanted them to do homework about it so they would have something to look back on for an explanation. I know might sound harsh and that you "might not have time," but some of the burden lies with the teacher and the school to make sure that the kids have access to what they are learning. If the parents need to provide paper for copies, then the parents need to step up. We just have to stop making excuses and come up with a way to make it WORK, not a way to pass the blame back and forth between the school, the
I'm sure there's more to it than that. Most of the resources would be covered by copyright laws. That means the teacher can have a copy for personal classroom use, and if it's online, they can point the students to the website, but it would be illegal for them to print a copy for each student.
Who is John Gault? - He's the successful business owner who didn't want to play by the new 'Law of the Land' so he closed up shop, packed up his stuff and left. He was joined by many other successful business owners who did the same. They stayed away until the government begged them to return and repealed the law.
Pleurosigma, on 03 November 2011 - 04:57 PM, said:
NPHS has numerous leatherette couches, a big screen TV, a ping pong and foosball table, and several microwaves in the lunch room. Yet they have no Spanish 3 or 4 books. (Yes, I know some of the things are from the church that meets there, but the majority aren't.)
I was at the school last night and was told that the leather sofa's were donated by the church that uses the building and the ping pong and foosball table were made by the construction class. I was concerned at first also so I asked. I'm didn't ask about tv so I am not sure about that one and I have only seen 2 microwaves.
This post has been edited by whatzup?: 05 November 2011 - 08:07 AM
I'm sure there's more to it than that. Most of the resources would be covered by copyright laws. That means the teacher can have a copy for personal classroom use,and if it's online, they can point the students to the website, but it would be illegal for them to print a copy for each student.
Do you see that as a problem for the children and their access to materials needed to succeed in school?
I was at the school last night and was told that the leather sofa's were donated by the church that uses the building and the ping pong and foosball table were made by the construction class. I was concerned at first also so I asked. I'm didn't ask about tv so I am not sure about that one and I have only seen 2 microwaves.
At one time, EPHS had two large screen T.V.s in their cafeteria. I think all or most of the middle schools have large screen T.V.s in their cafeteria.
I assume that they are bought from a fund for such items but I am concerned that the teachers are limited on how many copies they can make and especially since some do not have books.
Teacher lounges , which you don't have much any more, used to have couches, chairs, refrigerator, microwave, etc for the teachers to use.
At one time, EPHS had two large screen T.V.s in their cafeteria. I think all or most of the middle schools have large screen T.V.s in their cafeteria.
I assume that they are bought from a fund for such items but I am concerned that the teachers are limited on how many copies they can make and especially since some do not have books.
Teacher lounges , which you don't have much any more, used to have couches, chairs, refrigerator, microwave, etc for the teachers to use.
PTA fundraisers pay for many of the "extras" and always have. Any of the schools that rent space to churches usually also get permanent improvements donated by the church. I am thinking WestRidge Church added air conditioning to the gym at EPHS when they were renting it. I know they have provided many other extras at the schools they have rented and I would expect that is the case the majority of the time. So on top of the rental income, they get to keep the improvements. Which makes me curious....what does the school system do with the rental income from churches --the amount over and above the utilities/janitorial expenses? Is there a special fund this goes into? What is it used for?
Do you see that as a problem for the children and their access to materials needed to succeed in school?
If the teacher provides a link, no.
I was just pointing out that BY LAW, some of the resources that the teachers rely on aren't available to be copied en mass for the kids.
The information is out there if the student is willing to put a little effort into it.
Paying tens of thousands for dead-tree educational material that will be useless in a year or two doesn't make sense.
Who is John Gault? - He's the successful business owner who didn't want to play by the new 'Law of the Land' so he closed up shop, packed up his stuff and left. He was joined by many other successful business owners who did the same. They stayed away until the government begged them to return and repealed the law.
First of all, SPLOST stands for Special Purpose Local-Option Sales Tax. It's an OPTIONAL tax that voters vote for.
* A Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax allows local school districts the option to ask voters to approve the levy and collection of a one-cent sales tax to help fund school improvements. It can also be used to pay for capital projects or to retire debt, but it cannot be used to pay operating expenses such as salaries.
If you want the the E-SPLOST to be amended to include teacher's salaries, when it's NOT voted for, how do you think we're going to pay for those new teachers? What about the other things the schools need? We still need to provide a safe environment and keep up with today's standards and ever-changing technology to even be competitive with surrounding Counties. If we're not competitive, people will live - and shop, taking their 1% sales tax - elsewhere.
So, if the money isn't collected, then where the Hell does the money come from to pay for your teachers that are linked to SPLOST? The BOE is banking that Paulding County is going to collect $68M over a 5-year period. Where does the money come from if we don't collect it? It's a lot easier to tell a school, "Sorry, I can't afford your new gym" vs. "Sorry, you have to terminate 5 teachers".
Right now, schools are paid for by Federal (7%), State (60%) and Local Taxes (33%) (and Community). 90% of all state allocations are for salaries. How is education funded in GA? The economy sucks. We are all dealing with it, even the gov't, which means sometimes we will not have enough books, classrooms will be filled to the max and teachers are going to be limited.
Georgia received close to $2 billion in stimulus funds for education at all levels. Georgia's k-12 public schools received the vast majority of money. Stimulus Funding for Education
I was at the school last night and was told that the leather sofa's were donated by the church that uses the building and the ping pong and foosball table were made by the construction class. I was concerned at first also so I asked. I'm didn't ask about tv so I am not sure about that one and I have only seen 2 microwaves.
I looked into it further, and apparently the senior dues from last year paid for the microwaves and TV. O.O Which, quite frankly, I find a waste of money...
Kids are struggling and all you can reply is "HERE WE GO AGAIN." Do you want Georgia to remain at rock bottom or do you want our students to excel? Just sayin'.....
Ok, you feel so strongly, then why are you not stepping up and running yourself?
Formally Jetsmom - edited to finally include the final baby's initial. ;)
At one time, EPHS had two large screen T.V.s in their cafeteria. I think all or most of the middle schools have large screen T.V.s in their cafeteria.
I assume that they are bought from a fund for such items but I am concerned that the teachers are limited on how many copies they can make and especially since some do not have books.
Teacher lounges , which you don't have much any more, used to have couches, chairs, refrigerator, microwave, etc for the teachers to use.
At the schools where I worked the teachers were given x number of copies each month. On the first day of the month the copy machines were reset. The only problem with this is that the teachers who have 5-6 full size classes daily are given the same number of copies as a teacher who teaches small group or self contained classes. Sometimes on at the end of the month the teachers with extra copies would give them to the teachers who were short for the month.
There was no such thing as a "teacher's lounge" anymore. They have teacher workrooms that have copy machines and a table or two and sometimes a computer for teachers to work. Lots of times that was the only place available to do one on one work with a student so it was never a place to lounge. Oh, some of them had microwaves, but nothing fancy.
At the schools where I worked the teachers were given x number of copies each month. On the first day of the month the copy machines were reset. The only problem with this is that the teachers who have 5-6 full size classes daily are given the same number of copies as a teacher who teaches small group or self contained classes. Sometimes on at the end of the month the teachers with extra copies would give them to the teachers who were short for the month.
There was no such thing as a "teacher's lounge" anymore. They have teacher workrooms that have copy machines and a table or two and sometimes a computer for teachers to work. Lots of times that was the only place available to do one on one work with a student so it was never a place to lounge. Oh, some of them had microwaves, but nothing fancy.
We have a small fridge (small dorm size) and old microwave. Both of these were brought in by teachers. Cabinets, counters, and a sink is all the school provides, plus a phone and a chair.
I can't believe anyone would ever find anything luxurious, for any teachers in a public school...it ain't ever gonna happen.
If there's a microwave here & there, I can almost guarantee a teacher brought it in. Also, peaceful, quiet lunches in a nicely appointed room....never think your tax $ goes toward anything close to that.
This post has been edited by ohmygosh: 10 November 2011 - 07:18 PM
I can't believe anyone would ever find anything luxurious, for any teachers in a public school...it ain't ever gonna happen.
If there's a microwave here & there, I can almost guarantee a teacher brought it in. Also, peaceful, quiet lunches in a nicely appointed room....never think your tax $ goes toward anything close to that.
People are so frustrated at "Government waste". Paulding taxpayers see where we've got a new fancy overstaffed courthouse, an airport we didn't want or need and schools that are much nicer than we had had growing up. Folks are sick of being taxed out the wazoo and they can't often get it that the Board of Education is a different government entity than the Board of Commissioners. Bottom line is taxpayers are sick of high taxes and could care less if teachers get furloughed or if kids don't have books. There really needs to be a better public relations campaign by the school board to emphasize what they can and cannot accomplish with the money they have allotted to them. I'm so glad my student will soon graduate and be done with Paulding County Schools.
This post has been edited by Angel Eyes: 11 November 2011 - 09:15 AM
"I think we agree, the past is over."
George W. Bush
People are so frustrated at "Government waste". Paulding taxpayers see where we've got a new fancy overstaffed courthouse, an airport we didn't want or need and schools that are much nicer than we had had growing up. Folks are sick of being taxed out the wazoo and they can't often get it that the Board of Education is a different government entity than the Board of Commissioners. Bottom line is taxpayers are sick of high taxes and could care less if teachers get furloughed or if kids don't have books. There really needs to be a better public relations campaign by the school board to emphasize what they can and cannot accomplish with the money they have allotted to them. I'm so glad my student will soon graduate and be done with Paulding County Schools.
I think parents with kids in Paulding County schools get it just fine. I don't know where your kids go but my kid's schools are not fancy by any means nor do I see any waste of funds. If anything, if you spend any time at all in any school, you will see fabulous and dedicated people who have learned to do more with less.
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Mariposa, on 03 November 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:
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