[D-Cinco]

My son is one of the "non-gifted" who was offered Advance Placement classes this year. He chose to take Language Arst and Social Studies and is passing both with flying colors. He loves Social Studies but not Language Arts. He said in that class he is one of few who was not a Venture student previously and feels like everyone hates him for being in there. He wants out, but it's too late and he's doing well so he will stay.

My daughter is a Junior in high school. She is not a Venture student. Every year in her Honors Lit. classes they classify everyone as gifted or non-gifted based on whether they were in Venture before. She said it really demoralizes the kids who are classified as non-gifted especially since they are working just as hard and earning the same grades as the gifted kids. I really don't think they should make a discernment between the two groups. If they want to do that then pull Venture out and give them their own class. Let Honor classes be open to anyone regardless of their "gifted" nature!

And this is not a pot shot at gifted kids by any means. My 5th grader is in the process of being tested for Venture now. I just want people to know that some kids are doing well with the opportunity to be part of these classes. Now whether they have dumbed the curriculum down or not I do not know since we are not familiar with Venuture, but my son's Lit teacher was the same one my daughter had for regular Lit her 8th grade year and he is doing a lot more work then she did when she was in there.

[Greatma]

D-Cinco, on 12 September 2011 - 03:39 PM, said:

My son is one of the "non-gifted" who was offered Advance Placement classes this year. He chose to take Language Arst and Social Studies and is passing both with flying colors. He loves Social Studies but not Language Arts. He said in that class he is one of few who was not a Venture student previously and feels like everyone hates him for being in there. He wants out, but it's too late and he's doing well so he will stay.

My daughter is a Junior in high school. She is not a Venture student. Every year in her Honors Lit. classes they classify everyone as gifted or non-gifted based on whether they were in Venture before. She said it really demoralizes the kids who are classified as non-gifted especially since they are working just as hard and earning the same grades as the gifted kids. I really don't think they should make a discernment between the two groups. If they want to do that then pull Venture out and give them their own class. Let Honor classes be open to anyone regardless of their "gifted" nature!

And this is not a pot shot at gifted kids by any means. My 5th grader is in the process of being tested for Venture now. I just want people to know that some kids are doing well with the opportunity to be part of these classes. Now whether they have dumbed the curriculum down or not I do not know since we are not familiar with Venuture, but my son's Lit teacher was the same one my daughter had for regular Lit her 8th grade year and he is doing a lot more work then she did when she was in there.

If you don't mind will you tell me what school he is going to. I am not satisfied at all with
these classes.

[Pleurosigma]

D-Cinco, on 12 September 2011 - 03:39 PM, said:

My son is one of the "non-gifted" who was offered Advance Placement classes this year. He chose to take Language Arst and Social Studies and is passing both with flying colors. He loves Social Studies but not Language Arts. He said in that class he is one of few who was not a Venture student previously and feels like everyone hates him for being in there. He wants out, but it's too late and he's doing well so he will stay.

What? They offer advance placement classes at the middle school level now? Since those earn college credit, seems pretty bizarre. Either we have some really gifted kids now, or someone is setting them up to make 2s on the exam.

This post has been edited by nphs: 13 September 2011 - 05:51 PM

[Greatma]

We have some very smart gifted kids, but at our school they are not being taught like they
are supposed to be. Makes me sad.

[NewsJunky]

BMR, on 13 September 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

We have some very smart gifted kids, but at our school they are not being taught like they
are supposed to be. Makes me sad.

PM the name of the school please.

[D-Cinco]

nphs, on 13 September 2011 - 05:49 PM, said:

What? They offer advance placement classes at the middle school level now? Since those earn college credit, seems pretty bizarre. Either we have some really gifted kids now, or someone is setting them up to make 2s on the exam.

Pardon my gross misrepresentation of the ADVANCED LANGUAGE ARTS and ADVANCED SOCIAL STUDIES classes my son is taking. I have a high school student as well and sometimes Advanced and Advanced Placement co-mingle in my mind. I hope I haven't caused too much of an uproar with my faux pas

[Pleurosigma]

D-Cinco, on 13 September 2011 - 09:16 PM, said:

Pardon my gross misrepresentation of the ADVANCED LANGUAGE ARTS and ADVANCED SOCIAL STUDIES classes my son is taking. I have a high school student as well and sometimes Advanced and Advanced Placement co-mingle in my mind. I hope I haven't caused too much of an uproar with my faux pas

I didn't mean it like that! I hadn't heard of it, and thought it would have been a good opportunity for the students who need a big challenge.

[Greatma]

nphs, on 14 September 2011 - 09:09 PM, said:

I didn't mean it like that! I hadn't heard of it, and thought it would have been a good opportunity for the students who need a big challenge.

Yea, IF they are being challenged, mine is not.

[Stuck In Traffic]

""My daughter is a Junior in high school. She is not a Venture student. Every year in her Honors Lit. classes they classify everyone as gifted or non-gifted based on whether they were in Venture before. She said it really demoralizes the kids who are classified as non-gifted especially since they are working just as hard and earning the same grades as the gifted kids. I really don't think they should make a discernment between the two groups. If they want to do that then pull Venture out and give them their own class. Let Honor classes be open to anyone regardless of their "gifted" nature!""


They do have classes for them, AP classes. Unfortunatley at my daughter's high school there is only one AP course offered for most subjects and schedule conflicts land many of those students in honors and regular classes.

This post has been edited by Stuck In Traffic: 15 September 2011 - 09:28 AM

[NewsJunky]

D-Cinco, on 12 September 2011 - 03:39 PM, said:

My son is one of the "non-gifted" who was offered Advance Placement classes this year. He chose to take Language Arst and Social Studies and is passing both with flying colors. He loves Social Studies but not Language Arts. He said in that class he is one of few who was not a Venture student previously and feels like everyone hates him for being in there. He wants out, but it's too late and he's doing well so he will stay.

My daughter is a Junior in high school. She is not a Venture student. Every year in her Honors Lit. classes they classify everyone as gifted or non-gifted based on whether they were in Venture before. She said it really demoralizes the kids who are classified as non-gifted especially since they are working just as hard and earning the same grades as the gifted kids. I really don't think they should make a discernment between the two groups. If they want to do that then pull Venture out and give them their own class. Let Honor classes be open to anyone regardless of their "gifted" nature!

And this is not a pot shot at gifted kids by any means. My 5th grader is in the process of being tested for Venture now. I just want people to know that some kids are doing well with the opportunity to be part of these classes. Now whether they have dumbed the curriculum down or not I do not know since we are not familiar with Venuture, but my son's Lit teacher was the same one my daughter had for regular Lit her 8th grade year and he is doing a lot more work then she did when she was in there.

So are you saying they should not classify students as gifted because it makes others feel bad?

[Greatma]

Stuck In Traffic, on 15 September 2011 - 09:27 AM, said:

""My daughter is a Junior in high school. She is not a Venture student. Every year in her Honors Lit. classes they classify everyone as gifted or non-gifted based on whether they were in Venture before. She said it really demoralizes the kids who are classified as non-gifted especially since they are working just as hard and earning the same grades as the gifted kids. I really don't think they should make a discernment between the two groups. If they want to do that then pull Venture out and give them their own class. Let Honor classes be open to anyone regardless of their "gifted" nature!""


They do have classes for them, AP classes. Unfortunatley at my daughter's high school there is only one AP course offered for most subjects and schedule conflicts land many of those students in honors and regular classes.

These gifted venture students bust their butts to be where they are. These advance students all they had to do was make a good grade on the CRCT. Don't get me wrong, I am a firm believer thar every child
deserves everthing that they can get and are willing to work for. So if they are gifted, yes they should be called GIFTED.

[NewsJunky]

BMR, on 15 September 2011 - 05:45 PM, said:

These gifted venture students bust their butts to be where they are. These advance students all they had to do was make a good grade on the CRCT. Don't get me wrong, I am a firm believer that every child deserves everthing that they can get and are willing to work for. So if they are gifted, yes they should be called GIFTED.

I agree with you. Home school is looking attractive again. Not happy with the current program.

[D-Cinco]

BMR, on 15 September 2011 - 05:45 PM, said:

These gifted venture students bust their butts to be where they are. These advance students all they had to do was make a good grade on the CRCT. Don't get me wrong, I am a firm believer thar every child
deserves everthing that they can get and are willing to work for. So if they are gifted, yes they should be called GIFTED.

Sorry if I sounded bitter. Didn't mean to. And you are right they should be called GIFTED, but I firmly believe if they are going to discern between the two groups then they should offer gifted classes for those who have been identified as such. I'm thrilled my children get to take honors and advanced classes even though they are not classified as gifted. The students that have tested as gifted deserve an even more challenging course load than even honors and AP classes offer.

I guess I just got a little miffed that it sounds like people are saying the advanced classes are being "dumbed down" since they are now offered to the common student. I think ALL classes, gifted and non-gifted, should offer the highest level of challenge for ALL students. Not just those who test as gifted.

[Greatma]

D-Cinco, on 26 September 2011 - 01:05 PM, said:

Sorry if I sounded bitter. Didn't mean to. And you are right they should be called GIFTED, but I firmly believe if they are going to discern between the two groups then they should offer gifted classes for those who have been identified as such. I'm thrilled my children get to take honors and advanced classes even though they are not classified as gifted. The students that have tested as gifted deserve an even more challenging course load than even honors and AP classes offer.

I guess I just got a little miffed that it sounds like people are saying the advanced classes are being "dumbed down" since they are now offered to the common student. I think ALL classes, gifted and non-gifted, should offer the highest level of challenge for ALL students. Not just those who test as gifted.

I was told by the state that they are supposed to have separate lesson plans. I don't think they are doing this. Also I think this would be hard for the teacher. I don't know what they are doing. I have been trying to get a meeting with her language arts teacher, but she is not responding. Guess I will have to go another route.

[NewsJunky]

BMR, on 26 September 2011 - 04:25 PM, said:

I was told by the state that they are supposed to have separate lesson plans. I don't think they are doing this. Also I think this would be hard for the teacher. I don't know what they are doing. I have been trying to get a meeting with her language arts teacher, but she is not responding. Guess I will have to go another route.

Have you asked for an investigation by the state into the program here?

[Just thinkin' hard]

BMR, on 26 September 2011 - 04:25 PM, said:

I was told by the state that they are supposed to have separate lesson plans. I don't think they are doing this. Also I think this would be hard for the teacher. I don't know what they are doing. I have been trying to get a meeting with her language arts teacher, but she is not responding. Guess I will have to go another route.

Not separate lesson plans - differentiated lesson plans. They don't have to keep two different sets of lesson plans - they have to have differentiation built in. And, that's usually in the expectations.

[D-Cinco]

Just thinkin, on 26 September 2011 - 06:40 PM, said:

Not separate lesson plans - differentiated lesson plans. They don't have to keep two different sets of lesson plans - they have to have differentiation built in. And, that's usually in the expectations.

Well that explains why they classify them as "gifted" and "non-gifted" in the honors classes. I didn't realize they had different assignments/expectations. I thought it was odd to classify them that way if they weren't getting any different challenges than the rest of the class. It seems as if they are so that makes sense to me now. And if the gifted students are not being offered a more challenging curriculum that should definitely be looked into.

[Just thinkin' hard]

D-Cinco, on 26 September 2011 - 09:37 PM, said:

Well that explains why they classify them as "gifted" and "non-gifted" in the honors classes. I didn't realize they had different assignments/expectations. I thought it was odd to classify them that way if they weren't getting any different challenges than the rest of the class. It seems as if they are so that makes sense to me now. And if the gifted students are not being offered a more challenging curriculum that should definitely be looked into.

Gifted cirriculum isn't necessarily more challenging. It's taught differently. Gifted kids (myself being one) see the world very differently than, for a lack of better words, normal people. It's like our brains are twisted a bit. So an advanced student might have a more logical train of thought or a more alogrithmic methodology whereas the gifted kid is seeing all the possible ways of solving problem.

It's a difference that is difficult to explain - and even more difficult to quantify. But, once you know what you're looking for, it's easy to spot. My youngest is definitely a gift thinker, but doesn't have the academic skills to keep up in most gifted classes. Oldest is definitely the smarter of the two - but he's very borderline on his gift thinking - more in math and science, definitely not in language arts.

[Greatma]

Just thinkin, on 26 September 2011 - 06:40 PM, said:

Not separate lesson plans - differentiated lesson plans. They don't have to keep two different sets of lesson plans - they have to have differentiation built in. And, that's usually in the expectations.

The person that set this up all over the state told me separate lesson plans.

[spunky]

Just thinkin, on 26 September 2011 - 10:00 PM, said:

Gifted cirriculum isn't necessarily more challenging. It's taught differently. Gifted kids (myself being one) see the world very differently than, for a lack of better words, normal people. It's like our brains are twisted a bit. So an advanced student might have a more logical train of thought or a more alogrithmic methodology whereas the gifted kid is seeing all the possible ways of solving problem.

It's a difference that is difficult to explain - and even more difficult to quantify. But, once you know what you're looking for, it's easy to spot. My youngest is definitely a gift thinker, but doesn't have the academic skills to keep up in most gifted classes. Oldest is definitely the smarter of the two - but he's very borderline on his gift thinking - more in math and science, definitely not in language arts.

Very true, my college son showed his professor a different way of getting the answer to a math problem. He thinks totally different and has changed my way of thinking on many levels. He has won most debates on issues. We knew he was gifted at 15 months age. Our youngest is not gifted and might be a bit below average but has much more common sense.

[NewsJunky]

D-Cinco, on 26 September 2011 - 09:37 PM, said:

Well that explains why they classify them as "gifted" and "non-gifted" in the honors classes. I didn't realize they had different assignments/expectations. I thought it was odd to classify them that way if they weren't getting any different challenges than the rest of the class. It seems as if they are so that makes sense to me now. And if the gifted students are not being offered a more challenging curriculum that should definitely be looked into.

They don't have different assignments if my understanding of it is correct. Teachers can be great and school can be great but if the child is not being challenged because of the curriculum they can be miserable. I think advanced classes are wonderful but if those classes don't serve the needs of the gifted children then they should change what they are doing.

[Just thinkin' hard]

Okay - I checked with two Gifted lead teachers (or whatever their title is now). There is no state requirement of two separate lesson plans. There is a requirement for separate lessons as evidence of differentiated learning. However, that can be one set of plans with differentiated segments. However, there are folks that explain the differentiated segments as being seperate lesson plans. This could be a significant semantics issue depending upon the vocabulary level of all involved.

BMR, on 27 September 2011 - 05:10 AM, said:

The person that set this up all over the state told me separate lesson plans.

See below. I missed this reply when I replied.

[Just thinkin' hard]

NewsJunky, on 27 September 2011 - 11:33 AM, said:

They don't have different assignments if my understanding of it is correct. Teachers can be great and school can be great but if the child is not being challenged because of the curriculum they can be miserable. I think advanced classes are wonderful but if those classes don't serve the needs of the gifted children then they should change what they are doing.

They can have different assignments - though it's difficult to pull off. An example would be giving the advanced part of the class book work on the basic concepts of the class because that's where they are academically. And, the gifted part of the class having discussions using the Socratic method because that's were they are academically.

Today I saw an excellent example of differentiated learning in one assignment. Half of the assignment was fill in the blank and true false. Some of each were relatively easy to figure out, and some you had to use more critical thinking skills. Some referenced the exact langauge out of the textbook - and some required the student to get out of their box a bit.

The second half of the assignment was a series of short answer questions. Most of these were definitely critical thinking questions that required the student to put multiple concepts together and then give and support their opinion.

The range of question difficulty was very, very broad. And, it challenged all of the students, gifted and advanced. The advanced students needed more guidance on how to think through the short answer questions, but with some work, they got it. The gifted students, in general, really didn't need any help.

[NewsJunky]

Just thinkin, on 27 September 2011 - 08:38 PM, said:

They can have different assignments - though it's difficult to pull off. An example would be giving the advanced part of the class book work on the basic concepts of the class because that's where they are academically. And, the gifted part of the class having discussions using the Socratic method because that's were they are academically.

Today I saw an excellent example of differentiated learning in one assignment. Half of the assignment was fill in the blank and true false. Some of each were relatively easy to figure out, and some you had to use more critical thinking skills. Some referenced the exact langauge out of the textbook - and some required the student to get out of their box a bit.

The second half of the assignment was a series of short answer questions. Most of these were definitely critical thinking questions that required the student to put multiple concepts together and then give and support their opinion.

The range of question difficulty was very, very broad. And, it challenged all of the students, gifted and advanced. The advanced students needed more guidance on how to think through the short answer questions, but with some work, they got it. The gifted students, in general, really didn't need any help.

Not good enough in my opinion. Not even close.

[Just thinkin' hard]

NewsJunky, on 27 September 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

Not good enough in my opinion. Not even close.

NewJunky - I'll be honest with you - over the last few days of posts regarding the schools, it's becoming obvious to me that you aren't pleaseable. There is never enough for you to be pleased. I've been the school system many years now. Not everyday is going to be the stellar learning day - it's also not that way at any private school or at any home classroom. They wouldn't be stellar if they were the norm. Not every teacher is going to teach the same way. Not every subject is taught the same way. Not every student is dealt with the same way. Over the years, I've seen some very, very creative teaching - both to the ESEP students, the on grade level students, and to the advanced and gifted students. I've also seen teachers not on their absolute best day.

But, if you're not willing to even walk down the path with them, then it just doesn't matter what your opinion is. It's not going to change. There is nothing that anyone can do that's going to make you happy. And, quite frankly, that's okay. There are other options out there for your family - and you have every right and you are enabled to go pursue them. I can tell you this though - I've got very high academic standards. I expect my child's best each and every time (I don't always get it, but I do expect it). I expect my teachers' best each and every time. But, I will tell anyone that listens - your best may not be the best. And, that's okay. And, both of my kids have had amazing teachers along the way. There are only two teachers over the years that I can really sit back and say that I was disappointed at the end of the year. And, that's not much to sneeze at considering I have a 10 grader with seven teachers at a time. I have nominated 9 teachers over the years for teacher of the year - because I believe in them. Four have won that distinction.

Now, that doesn't say that I think they've pushed as hard as I would have liked. We do alot of at home work - scouts, adventures on our own, just asking them questions - I can only find the 1/4 cup measurer - how many do I need for 3 cups of flour? Wow - look at that pallet of M&Ms - wonder how many are on there? On and on over the years.

But, back to my original point, if you aren't happy - that's okay. Feel free to exercise your other options. But, please realize - you aren't always going to be happy with anyone all of the time anywhere.

[NewsJunky]

Just thinkin, on 27 September 2011 - 09:10 PM, said:

NewJunky - I'll be honest with you - over the last few days of posts regarding the schools, it's becoming obvious to me that you aren't pleaseable. There is never enough for you to be pleased. I've been the school system many years now. Not everyday is going to be the stellar learning day - it's also not that way at any private school or at any home classroom. They wouldn't be stellar if they were the norm. Not every teacher is going to teach the same way. Not every subject is taught the same way. Not every student is dealt with the same way. Over the years, I've seen some very, very creative teaching - both to the ESEP students, the on grade level students, and to the advanced and gifted students. I've also seen teachers not on their absolute best day.

But, if you're not willing to even walk down the path with them, then it just doesn't matter what your opinion is. It's not going to change. There is nothing that anyone can do that's going to make you happy. And, quite frankly, that's okay. There are other options out there for your family - and you have every right and you are enabled to go pursue them. I can tell you this though - I've got very high academic standards. I expect my child's best each and every time (I don't always get it, but I do expect it). I expect my teachers' best each and every time. But, I will tell anyone that listens - your best may not be the best. And, that's okay. And, both of my kids have had amazing teachers along the way. There are only two teachers over the years that I can really sit back and say that I was disappointed at the end of the year. And, that's not much to sneeze at considering I have a 10 grader with seven teachers at a time. I have nominated 9 teachers over the years for teacher of the year - because I believe in them. Four have won that distinction.

Now, that doesn't say that I think they've pushed as hard as I would have liked. We do alot of at home work - scouts, adventures on our own, just asking them questions - I can only find the 1/4 cup measurer - how many do I need for 3 cups of flour? Wow - look at that pallet of M&Ms - wonder how many are on there? On and on over the years.

But, back to my original point, if you aren't happy - that's okay. Feel free to exercise your other options. But, please realize - you aren't always going to be happy with anyone all of the time anywhere.

Wrong again. I have seen two kids through school and am now watching two grandkids go through the system I have been pleased with the system but I am concerned more each day. Any parent or for that matter anybody who cares about education should be concerned with the way Georgia (and Paulding) is performing when compared to other states and other nations. I think I managed to say that without being insulting which is more than I can say for you. I will keep working for a better education for the students in Georgia. If that bothers you, tough.

[Greatma]

Just thinkin, on 27 September 2011 - 08:33 PM, said:

Okay - I checked with two Gifted lead teachers (or whatever their title is now). There is no state requirement of two separate lesson plans. There is a requirement for separate lessons as evidence of differentiated learning. However, that can be one set of plans with differentiated segments. However, there are folks that explain the differentiated segments as being seperate lesson plans. This could be a significant semantics issue depending upon the vocabulary level of all involved.



See below. I missed this reply when I replied.

Well I guess I need to call the lady at the state and tell her Paulding said this was not true?????

[NewsJunky]

BMR, on 28 September 2011 - 05:06 AM, said:

Well I guess I need to call the lady at the state and tell her Paulding said this was not true?????

Please let us know what she says. I will be very interested in her answer.

[D-Cinco]

Just thinkin, on 26 September 2011 - 10:00 PM, said:

Gifted cirriculum isn't necessarily more challenging. It's taught differently. Gifted kids (myself being one) see the world very differently than, for a lack of better words, normal people. It's like our brains are twisted a bit. So an advanced student might have a more logical train of thought or a more alogrithmic methodology whereas the gifted kid is seeing all the possible ways of solving problem.

It's a difference that is difficult to explain - and even more difficult to quantify. But, once you know what you're looking for, it's easy to spot. My youngest is definitely a gift thinker, but doesn't have the academic skills to keep up in most gifted classes. Oldest is definitely the smarter of the two - but he's very borderline on his gift thinking - more in math and science, definitely not in language arts.

Thanks for explaining that to me! My youngest is being tested for Venture now and he's definitely a different sort of thinker He was making traps to catch our cat when he was four! But as far as keeping up with the extra workload I have a fear he won't be able to. My older two are very smart, but tend to be more gifted in music and sports. The youngest is also athletically talented, but can't focus long enough to make anything out of it.

[D-Cinco]

spunky, on 27 September 2011 - 11:05 AM, said:

Very true, my college son showed his professor a different way of getting the answer to a math problem. He thinks totally different and has changed my way of thinking on many levels. He has won most debates on issues. We knew he was gifted at 15 months age. Our youngest is not gifted and might be a bit below average but has much more common sense.

This too reminds me of my youngest! Very creative, thinks outside of the box, but can't keep up with his I-Pod or remember to bring his folder home on Monday's. He lacks common sense and constantly gets into things he shouldn't. He's all boy and then some. Definitely gives me a run for my money