[Greatma]

How do you feel about the way it is now in Middle School? Just wondering.

[Moonlight Motion Pictures]

Mine is in 7th grade and is in Venture. He was in it last year also, but was put in it half way through the year. He had a hard time adjusting to it at first, because a lot of the testing including things he wasn't there to learn in the beginning.

This year is a totally different story. He is LOVING it! I've been impressed with it so far.

[tripletmom2000]

all 3 of my 6th graders are in advance classes, if this is what you mean. And they are doing ok and not having any problems...we are at Scoggins

[Mom 2-2 boys]

tripletmom2000, on 07 September 2011 - 02:33 PM, said:

all 3 of my 6th graders are in advance classes, if this is what you mean. And they are doing ok and not having any problems...we are at Scoggins

We are at Scoggins as well...My son has been in Venture since he was in 1st grade- I was not sure how he was gonna do- but after looking at his grades on the parent portal I am one proud Mom! He is doing wonderful!! And with Venture in elementary only being 1 day a week- and now he is being challenged every day! Love it!!

What issues are you having?

[NewsJunky]

I thought it had changed and Venture is now part of the "Advanced Classes". Is there a class that is just Venture in middle school any longer?

[Moonlight Motion Pictures]

NewsJunky, on 07 September 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:

I thought it had changed and Venture is now part of the "Advanced Classes". Is there a class that is just Venture in middle school any longer?

I think you are right. My son is in Advanced Math, Advanced Social Studies and Spanish this year, all a part of the program. I don't think they are actually calling it Venture now.

[workingforaliving]

I personally think the county set the standard too low for these classes.

I expect that some schools are going to see a ridiculous number of student "flunk out".


I prefered the cluster model to this advanced model.

[melnsid]

Mine is in 7th grade and is in advanced math, advanced social studies, and advanced language arts and is taking the two year Spanish class that will count as a high school credit should he pass. I am surprised that he hasn't had alot of homework and it doesn't seem much different then a "regular" class.

[NewsJunky]

workingforaliving, on 07 September 2011 - 07:34 PM, said:

I personally think the county set the standard too low for these classes.

I expect that some schools are going to see a ridiculous number of student "flunk out".


I prefered the cluster model to this advanced model.

Unless the bar is lowered I think you could be right.

[workingforaliving]

NewsJunky, on 07 September 2011 - 07:47 PM, said:

Unless the bar is lowered I think you could be right.

An 830 on the CRCT and an 80 class grade the previous year is hardly advanced.....and if it is, PC has some SERIOUS academic problems.

Even exceeding on the CRCT doesn't make one advanced......nor does making an A since scores are so subjective.

[melnsid]

workingforaliving, on 07 September 2011 - 07:57 PM, said:

An 830 on the CRCT and an 80 class grade the previous year is hardly advanced.....and if it is, PC has some SERIOUS academic problems.

Even exceeding on the CRCT doesn't make one advanced......nor does making an A since scores are so subjective.

So if exceeding on the CRCT and making straight A's doesn't suggest you should be in the more advanced classes then what does?

[Moonlight Motion Pictures]

melnsid, on 07 September 2011 - 07:39 PM, said:

Mine is in 7th grade and is in advanced math, advanced social studies, and advanced language arts and is taking the two year Spanish class that will count as a high school credit should he pass. I am surprised that he hasn't had alot of homework and it doesn't seem much different then a "regular" class.

Exactly the same as mine. BTW, my child is at Moses Middle.

[workingforaliving]

melnsid, on 07 September 2011 - 08:11 PM, said:

So if exceeding on the CRCT and making straight A's doesn't suggest you should be in the more advanced classes then what does?

I meant them as seperate things. I don't believe exceeding on the CRCT or scoring an A in isolation makes a student advanced. Did you know that to PASS the CRCT, students only have to get 52% of the questions right? To exceed it's somewhere around 70ish%. In addition to that, students only had to have a B average in the class the previous year to qualify. What's advanced about being average?

I hate that this program replaced the gifted program and it wouldn't take much to convince me that it's $$ motivated.

[NewsJunky]

workingforaliving, on 07 September 2011 - 07:57 PM, said:

An 830 on the CRCT and an 80 class grade the previous year is hardly advanced.....and if it is, PC has some SERIOUS academic problems.

Even exceeding on the CRCT doesn't make one advanced......nor does making an A since scores are so subjective.

That's they way I see it too.

[NewsJunky]

workingforaliving, on 07 September 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

I meant them as seperate things. I don't believe exceeding on the CRCT or scoring an A in isolation makes a student advanced. Did you know that to PASS the CRCT, students only have to get 52% of the questions right? To exceed it's somewhere around 70ish%. In addition to that, students only had to have a B average in the class the previous year to qualify. What's advanced about being average?

I hate that this program replaced the gifted program and it wouldn't take much to convince me that it's $$ motivated.

Do you think it is just dollars and that there is no element of political correctness in it? Since there is no real Venture class any longer then there is no way to know which students are/were in the program and which are not. In some schools they don't post the honor roll anymore because some children feel bad when they don't make it.

[melnsid]

Moonlight Motion Pictures, on 07 September 2011 - 08:20 PM, said:

Exactly the same as mine. BTW, my child is at Moses Middle.

Mine too! They may be in the same classes together!

[workingforaliving]

NewsJunky, on 07 September 2011 - 08:49 PM, said:

Do you think it is just dollars and that there is no element of political correctness in it? Since there is no real Venture class any longer then there is no way to know which students are/were in the program and which are not. In some schools they don't post the honor role anymore because some children feel bad when they don't make it.

How is designating students as "advanced" different than designating them as "gifted" for the sake of political correctness? You're still singling out a group.

Gifted is something that students qualify for based on their COGAT/ITBS scores. They then have to further qualify on a handful of other categories.

Anyone can look at CRCT trends and see that students score very well in 7th grade (due to the high interest and less abstract content), but not so well in 8th grade (when the content is almost completely abstract).

I've been in these so-called advanced classes. I doubt they'll last too long. I expect a major schedule shuffle at the end of the first semester.

[melnsid]

workingforaliving, on 07 September 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

I meant them as seperate things. I don't believe exceeding on the CRCT or scoring an A in isolation makes a student advanced. Did you know that to PASS the CRCT, students only have to get 52% of the questions right? To exceed it's somewhere around 70ish%. In addition to that, students only had to have a B average in the class the previous year to qualify. What's advanced about being average?

I hate that this program replaced the gifted program and it wouldn't take much to convince me that it's $$ motivated.

I really didn't know what the requirements were. I only know what my child scored on the CRCT. He only missed 1 question on 2 sections and 2 on the other and for science he got a 850 for which he wasn't offered an advanced class. I didn't know the requirements were so low. I don't put much into the "advanced" classes. I let him choose the ones he wanted and he chose the 3 offered.

[workingforaliving]

melnsid, on 07 September 2011 - 08:57 PM, said:

I really didn't know what the requirements were. I only know what my child scored on the CRCT. He only missed 1 question on 2 sections and 2 on the other and for science he got a 850 for which he wasn't offered an advanced class. I didn't know the requirements were so low. I don't put much into the "advanced" classes. I let him choose the ones he wanted and he chose the 3 offered.

There are many kids who benefit from advanced classes, however, it has been my experience that not all students need to be there.

[melnsid]

workingforaliving, on 07 September 2011 - 09:04 PM, said:

There are many kids who benefit from advanced classes, however, it has been my experience that not all students need to be there.

I agree with you. As I stated before I had no idea that the requirements were so low. I just assumed since mine scored so high on the CRCT and had straight A's the year before, that was sort of the standard for the advanced classes.

[Moonlight Motion Pictures]

melnsid, on 07 September 2011 - 08:53 PM, said:

Mine too! They may be in the same classes together!

Mine has Collier for all of these classes. He really likes him, and so far, I do also.

[melnsid]

Moonlight Motion Pictures, on 07 September 2011 - 09:14 PM, said:

Mine has Collier for all of these classes. He really likes him, and so far, I do also.

Mine has him for math and social studies. He loves him and so do I!! He sends out emails with the information for the week and his website is always current!!

This post has been edited by melnsid: 07 September 2011 - 09:16 PM

[Moonlight Motion Pictures]

melnsid, on 07 September 2011 - 08:57 PM, said:

I really didn't know what the requirements were. I only know what my child scored on the CRCT. He only missed 1 question on 2 sections and 2 on the other and for science he got a 850 for which he wasn't offered an advanced class. I didn't know the requirements were so low. I don't put much into the "advanced" classes. I let him choose the ones he wanted and he chose the 3 offered.

My son also scored very high on those tests and got almost all A's last year. In fact, did get all A's until they moved him regular classes into venture in the middle of the year. Then his grades dropped some. Now this year, is doing amazingly well in all of his classes and is loving the advanced classes.

I also let my son choose which classes he wanted to take. I was worried about him taking on too many advanced classes. He chose the Math and Social Studies, but did not want any part of the Science. It's just not his favorite subject, even though he does so well.

[mrnn]

workingforaliving, on 07 September 2011 - 08:56 PM, said:

How is designating students as "advanced" different than designating them as "gifted" for the sake of political correctness? You're still singling out a group.

Gifted is something that students qualify for based on their COGAT/ITBS scores. They then have to further qualify on a handful of other categories.

Anyone can look at CRCT trends and see that students score very well in 7th grade (due to the high interest and less abstract content), but not so well in 8th grade (when the content is almost completely abstract).

I've been in these so-called advanced classes. I doubt they'll last too long. I expect a major schedule shuffle at the end of the first semester.

My 5th grader is in Venture and now you have my curiosity piqued about what he'll be facing next year at McClure. He went through a battery of tests to initially get into the Venture program. Will he be thrown into more of a "general population" next year based upon grades and CRCT results? If I'm reading your statement correctly, it would appear that is the case. Why in the world would they want to do that? The CRCT is a far cry from the ITBS/COGAT in evaluating intelligence and, when I was a kid, an 80% was a C. Since when are C students considered gifted? Grrr...I wish I hadn't read this. I was under the impression it was a full-time gig in middle school.

We had a similar program when I was a child. For grades 3-5, there was a full-time gifted class based upon ITBS scores, grades, and teacher input. When I moved from that program onto junior high, I was in the exact same advanced math, advanced LA, and Spanish programs being discussed here (we didn't have advanced SS) with weak entrance criteria. I hated it...my grades suffered as a result...I hate to hear my son may be facing a similar scenario.


mrnn

[Greatma]

workingforaliving, on 07 September 2011 - 07:34 PM, said:

I personally think the county set the standard too low for these classes.

I expect that some schools are going to see a ridiculous number of student "flunk out".


I prefered the cluster model to this advanced model.

Thank you

[Greatma]

workingforaliving, on 07 September 2011 - 07:34 PM, said:

I personally think the county set the standard too low for these classes.

I expect that some schools are going to see a ridiculous number of student "flunk out".


I prefered the cluster model to this advanced model.

Are your teachers Venture certified?

[Greatma]

workingforaliving, on 07 September 2011 - 08:56 PM, said:

How is designating students as "advanced" different than designating them as "gifted" for the sake of political correctness? You're still singling out a group.

Gifted is something that students qualify for based on their COGAT/ITBS scores. They then have to further qualify on a handful of other categories.

Anyone can look at CRCT trends and see that students score very well in 7th grade (due to the high interest and less abstract content), but not so well in 8th grade (when the content is almost completely abstract).

I've been in these so-called advanced classes. I doubt they'll last too long. I expect a major schedule shuffle at the end of the first semester.

I agree with you so much. I also understand these teachers are supposed to be Venture certiied.
Also I am being told they are teaching the very same thing as the other team, which is all
inclusion classes.

[footballbeerchic]

Our middle school had it all kinds of sideways this year. Kid was on team 1. She was not in Venture in elementary school. The first week was fine but then she had a class change to a different team. I emailed to ask if she would be moved to a completely different team now & by the next week she had all new classes on a new team. She has all "advanced" classes except one, but what I've learned is that the team she was on is all former Venture kids now. Kid is very happy in her classes and never has homework since she finishes in class...which I still don't understand.

[Jessica Rabbit]

Regardless of what qualifies you or not to be in these classes, being in venture from 4th to 8th grade (you moved into an Honor's type program in hs at the time) was the only thing that prepared me for success in college and in the job market. If they make any dramatic changes to it, I fear it will become just another notch on the failed programs of Paulding county's lipstick case.

The kids who qualify for these classes TRULY need them. I was so bored everyday and had a low opinion of the public education system until I was actually challenged in these classes and made to use the talents I naturally possessed that were not embraced in the "standard" classes.

Daww... I miss it. My friends who were in there with me and I are still close and talk about it all the time.


STEMS STEMS STEMS!!

[Moonlight Motion Pictures]

Jessica Rabbit, on 08 September 2011 - 08:48 AM, said:

Regardless of what qualifies you or not to be in these classes, being in venture from 4th to 8th grade (you moved into an Honor's type program in hs at the time) was the only thing that prepared me for success in college and in the job market. If they make any dramatic changes to it, I fear it will become just another notch on the failed programs of Paulding county's lipstick case.

The kids who qualify for these classes TRULY need them. I was so bored everyday and had a low opinion of the public education system until I was actually challenged in these classes and made to use the talents I naturally possessed that were not embraced in the "standard" classes.

Daww... I miss it. My friends who were in there with me and I are still close and talk about it all the time.


STEMS STEMS STEMS!!

My son is the same way. He was so bored in the regular classes, and it came to the point that the teachers would use him to tutor other kids. He loved doing that. He was really good at it from what I was told. He didn't give the other kids the answers, he explained how to get them on their own.

[NewsJunky]

mrnn, on 07 September 2011 - 11:47 PM, said:

My 5th grader is in Venture and now you have my curiosity piqued about what he'll be facing next year at McClure. He went through a battery of tests to initially get into the Venture program. Will he be thrown into more of a "general population" next year based upon grades and CRCT results? If I'm reading your statement correctly, it would appear that is the case. Why in the world would they want to do that? The CRCT is a far cry from the ITBS/COGAT in evaluating intelligence and, when I was a kid, an 80% was a C. Since when are C students considered gifted? Grrr...I wish I hadn't read this. I was under the impression it was a full-time gig in middle school.

We had a similar program when I was a child. For grades 3-5, there was a full-time gifted class based upon ITBS scores, grades, and teacher input. When I moved from that program onto junior high, I was in the exact same advanced math, advanced LA, and Spanish programs being discussed here (we didn't have advanced SS) with weak entrance criteria. I hated it...my grades suffered as a result...I hate to hear my son may be facing a similar scenario.


mrnn

Check out the Marland Report to congress in 1972. It will just upset you some more. This is a little of it.

Gifted and Talented children are, in fact, deprived and can suffer psychological damage and permanent impairment of their abilities to function well which is equal to or greater than the similar deprivation suffered by any other population with special needs served by the Office of Education.

Might read this Brookings article too:
http://www.brookings...b_loveless.aspx

Some analysts today express the concern that, by focusing attention on the education of students at the bottom of the achievement distribution, NCLB is surely encouraging schools to neglect high achievers. After all, schools face consequences for failing to move low achieving students to proficiency. Students in schools that fail to make adequate progress for two consecutive years must be offered the option of transferring to another public school. A school that continues to fall short faces possible replacement of its teaching staff, conversion to a charter school, or state takeover. Nothing, however, happens when schools fail to boost the learning of already-proficient students to higher levels. As Susan Goodkin argued in the Washington Post, “By forcing schools to focus their time and funding almost entirely on bringing low achieving students up to proficiency, NCLB sacrifices the education of the gifted students who will become our future biomedical researchers, computer engineers, and other scientific leaders."

[Greatma]

NewsJunky, on 08 September 2011 - 02:15 PM, said:

Check out the Marland Report to congress in 1972. It will just upset you some more. This is a little of it.

Gifted and Talented children are, in fact, deprived and can suffer psychological damage and permanent impairment of their abilities to function well which is equal to or greater than the similar deprivation suffered by any other population with special needs served by the Office of Education.

Might read this Brookings article too:
http://www.brookings...b_loveless.aspx

Some analysts today express the concern that, by focusing attention on the education of students at the bottom of the achievement distribution, NCLB is surely encouraging schools to neglect high achievers. After all, schools face consequences for failing to move low achieving students to proficiency. Students in schools that fail to make adequate progress for two consecutive years must be offered the option of transferring to another public school. A school that continues to fall short faces possible replacement of its teaching staff, conversion to a charter school, or state takeover. Nothing, however, happens when schools fail to boost the learning of already-proficient students to higher levels. As Susan Goodkin argued in the Washington Post, “By forcing schools to focus their time and funding almost entirely on bringing low achieving students up to proficiency, NCLB sacrifices the education of the gifted students who will become our future biomedical researchers, computer engineers, and other scientific leaders."

This is exactly what they are doing.

[workingforaliving]

BMR, on 08 September 2011 - 05:16 AM, said:

Are your teachers Venture certified?

3 of the 4 on my team are. I am, though I don't have any adv classes.

School wide I'd guess arould half......or less.

Also, I expect an audit by the state based on the amount of $ coming in for these classes.

[Greatma]

workingforaliving, on 08 September 2011 - 09:12 PM, said:

3 of the 4 on my team are. I am, though I don't have any adv classes.

School wide I'd guess arould half......or less.

Also, I expect an audit by the state based on the amount of $ coming in for these classes.

My child keeps coming home and saying one of her teachers keeps telling them after 9 weeks
there will probably only be the real venture students left in her class room. All the
advance students apparently are not making an 80 average.

This post has been edited by BMR: 09 September 2011 - 04:44 PM

[NewsJunky]

workingforaliving, on 08 September 2011 - 09:12 PM, said:

3 of the 4 on my team are. I am, though I don't have any adv classes.

School wide I'd guess arould half......or less.

Also, I expect an audit by the state based on the amount of $ coming in for these classes.

An audit? Why would they do that?

[Chelle]

I've got a 6th grader who is in advanced Language Arts, Math, Science and Social Studies. He got all A's on his last progress report. While he likes his classes, he tells me he wishes they were more challenging.

I think the bar has been set too low. I don't blame this on the teachers at all... I think the fault lies with whoever laid out the requirements and curriculum... that in an effort to have the county look good by having so many "advanced" students, the truly gifted are being shafted.

[workingforaliving]

NewsJunky, on 09 September 2011 - 05:01 PM, said:

An audit? Why would they do that?

I can only speak for the school I'm at, but we went from funding for 6 gifted classes to funding at least 15 advanced classes. Advanced kids are worth more QBE dollars. I'm sure the gooberment will notice.

[Chelle]

workingforaliving, on 11 September 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

I can only speak for the school I'm at, but we went from funding for 6 gifted classes to funding at least 15 advanced classes. Advanced kids are worth more QBE dollars. I'm sure the gooberment will notice.

If that's the case, then they need to have 2 different levels of advanced classes and group the students accordingly... and adjust the curriculums to suit each level.

[NewsJunky]

workingforaliving, on 11 September 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

I can only speak for the school I'm at, but we went from funding for 6 gifted classes to funding at least 15 advanced classes. Advanced kids are worth more QBE dollars. I'm sure the gooberment will notice.

I spoke to the State BOE a couple of days ago about this. I was speaking to Dr. Barge's office about something else and mentioned this in passing. I was assured by someone here that the plan met all requirements by the state for teaching the gifted students. I have not really gone though channels here though and I want to do that before I say much about it at any other level. I know we are broke but some things just need to be done.

[workingforaliving]

Chelle, on 11 September 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

If that's the case, then they need to have 2 different levels of advanced classes and group the students accordingly... and adjust the curriculums to suit each level.

The gifted students are in the same classroom as the advanced students. They are on two different rosters in Infinate Campus, so I'll assume the coding is different, even if the class period is not.


I don't know how this is going to play out, but I'm sure it's going to cost someone a whole lot of work to clean up this mess. I'm also certain that the person who cleans up the mess is not the same person who caused it.


Just sayin'.

NewsJunky, on 11 September 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

I spoke to the State BOE a couple of days ago about this. I was speaking to Dr. Barge's office about something else and mentioned this in passing. I was assured by someone here that the plan met all requirements by the state for teaching the gifed students. I have not really gone though channels here though and I want to do that before I say much about it at any other level. I know we are broke but some things just need to be done.

I don't believe any rules are going to be broken with this. I think everything, funding wise, is on the up and up. I just think that someone might notice that PC is suddenly pulling in a LOT more $$ from the state.