[AFVetFromPC]

Would anybody care to speculate as to why Paulding County middle school sports are so different than our neighbors in other Metro Atlanta counties? Specifically, why do we not have the feeder type systems in basketball and football similar to the programs in Cobb and Cherokee County schools? Is it because we are not interested in really competing as well as we could year in and year out? Is it because we don't have as many schools and students as Cobb does? I'm really not trying to be sarcastic nor do I have all the answers but I am curious as to why we aren't following the examples of our fellow Metro ATL counties. I realize the Hornets have had success in Basketball and Football this year and are to be congratulated. But I am intersted in all of our shcools competing year in and year out. There must be some ways to improve.

[Orwell]

The middle schools compete with each other during the season and usually have play-offs leading to a championship game. What more do you want?
Unlike the Cobb schools, Paulding County Schools sponsor these activities.

[UnionMom]

I was shocked when I first found out that there is school sponsored sports at the middle school level here. I'd never heard of that before.

[Construction Teacher]

UnionMom, on 01 March 2010 - 09:51 PM, said:

I was shocked when I first found out that there is school sponsored sports at the middle school level here. I'd never heard of that before.

The school system we came from in south GA also had middle school sports: football, volleyball, basketball, baseball, and softball, which were all school district sponsored.

[AFVetFromPC]

sutler, on 01 March 2010 - 09:49 PM, said:

The middle schools compete with each other during the season and usually have play-offs leading to a championship game. What more do you want?
Unlike the Cobb schools, Paulding County Schools sponsor these activities.

Thanks for the information but I am aware of how it works now. I am also aware that in Paulding County Middle School Football this past season if a team made it all the way to the championship game they played a total of 8 games for the entire season. Yep, 8 games. If a team didn't make the playoffs they would only play 6 games. Hardly a season in my book. Prior to this past season the 7th grade teams only played 6 games with no playoffs at all. As of now there is a plan to make the PC Middle School basketball regular season only 7 games next year. Again, hardly enough competing for the hard work that goes into the practices, etc. But in spite of the short seasons what I really want to see is the high school coaches and the middle school coaches working together to develop athletes and institute systems. I would like to see some continuity as a player moves from the middle school level to the high school level in order to compete with the surrounding counties on a consistent basis. Trust me there is much more that could be done to allow our high schools to be more competitive.

[workingforaliving]

MS sports suck a lot of funding.

[AnnaC]

workingforaliving, on 02 March 2010 - 10:55 PM, said:

MS sports suck a lot of funding.

So do advanced degrees...and transportation...and teacher's salaries...and lunch programs...and plumbing and other maintenance...and band...and air conditioning...and desks...

Are you sure that MS sports require a lot of funding? Are you privy to the exact amounts?

What do you propose? Scrapping programs you don't like? What does one use for criteria? Do we axe the ones we don't like? Do we axe the ones that provide comfort for teachers? Do we get rid of the ones that are perceived to be welfare?

As far as comparing Cobb athletic programs to Paulding athletic programs, there are a lot more differences than feeder programs. If Paulding were closer on proximity to Atlanta...If Paulding did not just experience the growth it has...If my aunt had balls, she would be my...





Coach.

[K96W8]

AFVetFromPC, on 02 March 2010 - 10:36 PM, said:

Thanks for the information but I am aware of how it works now. I am also aware that in Paulding County Middle School Football this past season if a team made it all the way to the championship game they played a total of 8 games for the entire season. Yep, 8 games. If a team didn't make the playoffs they would only play 6 games. Hardly a season in my book. Prior to this past season the 7th grade teams only played 6 games with no playoffs at all. As of now there is a plan to make the PC Middle School basketball regular season only 7 games next year. Again, hardly enough competing for the hard work that goes into the practices, etc. But in spite of the short seasons what I really want to see is the high school coaches and the middle school coaches working together to develop athletes and institute systems. I would like to see some continuity as a player moves from the middle school level to the high school level in order to compete with the surrounding counties on a consistent basis. Trust me there is much more that could be done to allow our high schools to be more competitive.

Sports don't overlap in Middle School--so there is less time per sport--but kids can play several sports without missing out on anything.

At North and East Paulding the high school and middle school football coaches work together. Unless something changed recently the Middle School coach from Moses coaches with East Paulding--working together.

[Paulding Sporting Goods]

We have 8 middle schools splitting to 5 high schools. The problem is we do not have entire middle schools that feed one high school.

[smy34]

I appreciate the post and concern, but this is long, way long discussed and nothing will be done. Until the county makes a major move...yes, coaches should be involved HS and MS but it is just not done that way. Most MS coaches, just will not put the time in the summers to do this...now I did not say all, I said some. This will gone on for years...

[xmaslightguy]

Here a couple points of fact about MS sports:
1. In the large picture MS sports does not suck much funding. The district pays for gas in the buses and coaches supps. The programs pay for everything else, the drivers, gas surchargea, equipment, facility upkeep, you name it. I can tell you that if you add the coaches supps at one MS it is not enough to hire one first year teacher.
2. The schedule; this has always been an issue. I am not sure if many people realize but until the 2010-11 season the state mandated MS Sports could only play 60% of the varsity schedule. That has now gone away so the decisions now lie with the principals and district. This is with all decisions on MS sports, so if you want change let your voice be heard.
3. As for feeder programs I really don't think Paulding is ready for that. Right now kids can play anywhere they like and not for a program that feeds their HS. At least at the MS level most play at a MS that feeds their HS. Most MS feed mainly one school and some (like SMMS) feed one HS. As long as kids can choose where thay want to play in rec sports you cannot have feeder programs like Cobb and the like. Where are kids going to want to play for a program that wins or loses if they have a choice? I kow a lot of kids play for a rec program that wins and not based on the demographics as to where it feeds. And also you have the daddy ball problem.
4. MS and HS working together has alwas been a problem in PC. The problem is two fold; One, working the 2 programs together must be a two way street. Some HS coaches have no interest in working with the MS or they think you need to bow down at their greatess and live at their facility, if not they pay no attention to the MS program. Two; some MS coaches have no interest in being involved in the HS program and want to do their own thing. I know that in some feeder programs in other counties there is cooperation between the HS and 8th/7th grade teams and the HS makes every attempt to meet those coaches. That is not always the case here.

As the last poster said this discussion has gone on for years. I think having the MS sports is great. It helps keep some kids in school ad getting passing grades, it helps with discipline, and if you have a decent coach it builds character.

[RaidersRock]

AnnaC, on 02 March 2010 - 11:37 PM, said:

As far as comparing Cobb athletic programs to Paulding athletic programs, there are a lot more differences than feeder programs. If Paulding were closer on proximity to Atlanta...If Paulding did not just experience the growth it has...If my aunt had balls, she would be my...





Coach.

a monkey's uncle

This post has been edited by RaidersRock: 10 April 2010 - 10:39 AM

[workingforaliving]

Paulding has a decent parks/rec dept. Outsourcing to this program would save on stipens, gas, field maintence, athletic directors, etc. All of that x8 middle schools = a lot of money.

[MJF]

Did you read the posts?... MS sports pays for itself and in some cases and in HS, football in particular PAYS FOR ITSELF, also making money for your other programs. Making money is a good thing. AS stated before since it doesn't cost the county much if anything AND it helps the kids stay in school and keep their grades up... looks like win win. THe WHOLE school enjoys some school spirit together, EVERYBODY at the school. What else does that the lunch program?

[workingforaliving]

MJF, on 10 April 2010 - 01:40 PM, said:

Did you read the posts?... MS sports pays for itself and in some cases and in HS, football in particular PAYS FOR ITSELF, also making money for your other programs. Making money is a good thing. AS stated before since it doesn't cost the county much if anything AND it helps the kids stay in school and keep their grades up... looks like win win. THe WHOLE school enjoys some school spirit together, EVERYBODY at the school. What else does that the lunch program?

I sure did read it and my reading comprehension is quite high...and I don't believe that MIDDLE SCHOOL sports pays for itself.

[MJF]

you believe what you want... those of us who have been directly involved with MS sports know that gas for the buses and Coaches supps are the only thing the county pays. the year of the high gas prices they cancelled the buses to and from the games to save money. I do not know if that is still the case. The coaches work with what they get from parents clubs, gate fees and fundraisers. Sometimes it is good sometimes not so good and they are very poor. This is why it is a shock to parents when they hand out raggity uniforms and worn out equipment.

[workingforaliving]

MJF, on 10 April 2010 - 02:00 PM, said:

you believe what you want... those of us who have been directly involved with MS sports know that gas for the buses and Coaches supps are the only thing the county pays. the year of the high gas prices they cancelled the buses to and from the games to save money. I do not know if that is still the case. The coaches work with what they get from parents clubs, gate fees and fundraisers. Sometimes it is good sometimes not so good and they are very poor. This is why it is a shock to parents when they hand out raggity uniforms and worn out equipment.

If the county pays for these, then the program isn't paying for itself, now is it?

When the gate money is not so good, who makes up the difference? Fields still have to be maintained, equipment (I'm thinking football helments---safety first) still has to be maintained.

[overit]

MJF, on 10 April 2010 - 01:40 PM, said:

Did you read the posts?... MS sports pays for itself and in some cases and in HS, football in particular PAYS FOR ITSELF, also making money for your other programs. Making money is a good thing. AS stated before since it doesn't cost the county much if anything AND it helps the kids stay in school and keep their grades up... looks like win win. THe WHOLE school enjoys some school spirit together, EVERYBODY at the school. What else does that the lunch program?

I think they should keep middle and HS sports. Some kids count on scholarships to attend college. I agree with less trouble from the kids and higher grades.


Why not cut History club, FCA, computer teacher's, ISS teacher's, kindergardgen para's, one on one para's, CBI trip's, attendance clerks, 3 or 4 front office staff.

[workingforaliving]

overit, on 10 April 2010 - 02:41 PM, said:

I think they should keep middle and HS sports. Some kids count on scholarships to attend college. I agree with less trouble from the kids and higher grades.


Why not cut History club, FCA, computer teacher's, ISS teacher's, kindergardgen para's, one on one para's, CBI trip's, attendance clerks, 3 or 4 front office staff.

History Club---unfunded, not stipened.

FCA----unfunded, not stipened.

Computer teachers---funded as a connections course, someone will have to be hired in their place so it wouldn't make sense to cut them.

ISS teachers---cut. Position will be filled by paras.

Kindergarden paras---I stated in another thread that I'm not familiar with their purpose, so I can't weigh in on that one.

One-on-one paras---case by case situation. Cutting them depends on how much the parent will bitch if it's cut out of the IEP. Probably won't win a lawsuit if cut and parent takes school system to court. Save court costs and just keep 'em.

CBIs---I don't know if this is federally mandated, but would be worth looking into. This is a once-a-month, use a short bus, program...so gas prices would be lower than sports buses.

Attendance clerks/Office Staff----often the same people. We have 3 people in these positions. Cutting 3-4 would completely eliminate the front office of just about all schools. We would probably survive if ONE of these positions was eliminated.


One rarely mentioned: freakin' GRADUATION COACHES in the middle school! What a crapload of money spent on a make-believe job!

[overit]

workingforaliving, on 10 April 2010 - 02:56 PM, said:

History Club---unfunded, not stipened.

FCA----unfunded, not stipened.

Computer teachers---funded as a connections course, someone will have to be hired in their place so it wouldn't make sense to cut them.

ISS teachers---cut. Position will be filled by paras.

Kindergarden paras---I stated in another thread that I'm not familiar with their purpose, so I can't weigh in on that one.

One-on-one paras---case by case situation. Cutting them depends on how much the parent will bitch if it's cut out of the IEP. Probably won't win a lawsuit if cut and parent takes school system to court. Save court costs and just keep 'em.

CBIs---I don't know if this is federally mandated, but would be worth looking into. This is a once-a-month, use a short bus, program...so gas prices would be lower than sports buses.

Attendance clerks/Office Staff----often the same people. We have 3 people in these positions. Cutting 3-4 would completely eliminate the front office of just about all schools. We would probably survive if ONE of these positions was eliminated.


One rarely mentioned: freakin' GRADUATION COACHES in the middle school! What a crapload of money spent on a make-believe job!

The teachers who lead these clubs are on their on time? I didn't know that.


As far as kindergarden para, this is what my job was....making copies, filing paperwork, cutting things out, helping the kids with letters durning centers, and my 2 most important job's were taking the kids to recess and lunch. It's a pie job, compared to being an ESEP para. I actually wore skirts and heals!

[MJF]

overit, on 10 April 2010 - 06:06 PM, said:

The teachers who lead these clubs are on their on time? I didn't know that.


As far as kindergarden para, this is what my job was....making copies, filing paperwork, cutting things out, helping the kids with letters durning centers, and my 2 most important job's were taking the kids to recess and lunch. It's a pie job, compared to being an ESEP para. I actually wore skirts and heals!

CBIs? what is this?

[overit]

MJF, on 10 April 2010 - 07:02 PM, said:

CBIs? what is this?

Community Based Instruction, for example: the school takes the ESEP kids to Target and the buy things from the food court.

[xmaslightguy]

I am with working for a living about grad coaches. I don't know if media center paras are needed either or ILT's. These jobs were created when times were good, now they are not. But this is a sports thread so it should stick to that.

As far as the funding thing again, the county provides no funding, the programs do fund themselves. If the programs fall short they fall short and go without. Or sports like football and basketball help carry soccer and softball.
The fields truth be told should be upkept by the county because they are PE fields that have been converted to athletic fields. If they were just PE fields they would never be upkept, just cut. There is no county funding other than what was stated. The programs manage to sustain with the money they raise. It might be had to believe but true.

[felixfamilylights]

I have read this post about a week or so ago and almost posted, then decided not to. But the previous poster is correct about MS sports funding. They are self sustaining programs other than coaching supplements and gas for buses. To be honest if we do not have a coach then the county keeps the coaching supplement. I haven't used all of my supplement $ since I took over the program. No money magically appears in my football account or any of the other sports account unless we raise it with gate, concessions, and fundraising. I do wonder how much gas costs to drive a bus from EPMS to SPHS with the programs paying a gas surcharge.

There was a little money for facility upkeep (not enough to do the fields and the b-ball court) but there was some. But you know when my field is being rented out and there is a nice chunk being brought in from it there should be some money given for upkeep.

I am not trying to get anyone stirred up or start an argument, just want to clear up some commn misconceptions on how the MS sports run from someone who is a part of it. You would be suprised how many people think the district funds our progams.

[spunky]

our high school softball coach went many times to the ms with several of his hs girls to help develop the program.

[workingforaliving]

overit, on 10 April 2010 - 06:06 PM, said:

The teachers who lead these clubs are on their on time? I didn't know that.


As far as kindergarden para, this is what my job was....making copies, filing paperwork, cutting things out, helping the kids with letters durning centers, and my 2 most important job's were taking the kids to recess and lunch. It's a pie job, compared to being an ESEP para. I actually wore skirts and heals!

Yup. I work 10 hours days 2x a week because I am a big fan of extracurriculars....all on my own time. I get there at 7:45 (and not one minute sooner) and leave at 5:45ish if everyone is picked up on time....sometimes parents don't pick up their kids til much later, and I have to stay with them. Many times, coaches are gone before some of the extracurricular club sponsor gets to go home.

This week is my last week of clubs til next year, and I'm more than a little excited to be done

MJF, on 10 April 2010 - 07:02 PM, said:

CBIs? what is this?

overit, on 10 April 2010 - 07:14 PM, said:

Community Based Instruction, for example: the school takes the ESEP kids to Target and the buy things from the food court.

Only the MI/MO students....these students aren't learning the standards, but are learning life skills. They may spend the month working on making change and then go out and buy something in order to practice that skill. They've done ordering from menus (fast food and sit down restaurants), manners, etc. The CBI is basically "real life" for students whose IQs are usually less than 70.

[Ginger Whiteis]

I had hoped to see a middle school tennis program. All the counties surrounding us have them. Would love to know if someone put in the time if we could play out of a Paulding Rec center instead of the school. Bremen sports aren't out of the schools they are run by the rec system.

[Bizness]

it truly amazes me to see that some of the things to be discontinued to allow sports is always other clubs, i.e. the examples given FCA, History club...with that said, how about getting rid of the arts programs? I mean, they aren't necessary, right? No art class or club, no band, no chorus, no drama...and sense we see no need for these, how about we limit the academics to just half a day? Then we could use all the staff, teachers, etc...and they could just all join in and help with field maintenance, clean the concession stands, and so forth, and then they could help with training and do whatever the coaches wanted them too. Wow! What a system!

Ya think it would work? Then all the kids that wanted to do sports could...and they would only have to do a little with academics and it would be a better world, and.......

Ok, now that this has gotten a rise out of you, my point is this...although I realize and know how important a good sports program is I believe at the middle school level other things should be considered...I think that having a good/great sports program would be wonderful but I would prefer that these kids concentrate on getting prepared for the next level in their education...high school. Football will come... Let's prepare these kids for their academics on a higher level...let's get them ready to go on to college...let's help to teach them to read! to spell! and how about functioning in the real world?

Another thing to consider is that at the middle school level there are many common problems to face. A prerequisite to administering middle-school sports programs effectively is to be aware of these problems. Some of these problems are: the issue of 10-14 year olds predisposition to physical injury, the question of psychological readiness, the high attrition (sports drop out) rates, the question of proper coaching and, of course, the issues of liability.

And then there's the money thing.....since it's not 'funded' by the school (?), you've got to find the funding...i.e. (sigh) fundraisers, etc...

While I understand that there are parents out there with kids that have great expectations and high hopes for a future in sports, let's develop a good foundation of learning coupled with the possible future of 'sports' in their lives...and let's do that at the middle school level...what a great time to learn that while sports is their passion (or that of their parents) they need to learn academic skills, and learn how to 'balance' training, practicing, playing, with homework, in class work, and socialization. Also, concentrate on, that while it's wonderful and important, winning is not the only thing....learn to accept challenges and loss, victory and disappointment...

BEFORE YOU START SCREAMING AND HYPERVENTILATING, yes, I know that sports programs are frequently credited with promoting socialization skills, building character, helping with personality development and "preparing for adult life", but this is more at the high school level, where the children have matured more...the biggest question at the 10-14 years of age level is the readiness of children to cope (and cope successfully) with the pressures of experiencing instant success and failure, in very public ways, during sporting events. ...plus the burn out rate as a result of the pressure of middle school sports and not being ready for all that entails ends with a high drop out rate [participation in the sports program] for athletes at age 15.

All I am saying is this...have sports in the middle schools, but instead of worrying about how many games they play, or who they compete with, let's concentrate on combining those skills and life lessons with preparation for the next level by concentrating more on the basics...reading, writing, arithmetic....

OK, EVERYONE CAN BASH, YELL, AND SCREAM AT ME NOW.....

[TJB]

[quote name='AnnaC' date='03 March 2010 - 12:37 AM' timestamp='1267591066' post='3096342']
So do advanced degrees...and transportation...and teacher's salaries...and lunch programs...and plumbing and other maintenance...and band...and air conditioning...and desks...

Are you sure that MS sports require a lot of funding? Are you privy to the exact amounts?

What do you propose? Scrapping programs you don't like? What does one use for criteria? Do we axe the ones we don't like? Do we axe the ones that provide comfort for teachers? Do we get rid of the ones that are perceived to be welfare?

As far as comparing Cobb athletic programs to Paulding athletic programs, there are a lot more differences than feeder programs. If Paulding were closer on proximity to Atlanta...If Paulding did not just experience the growth it has...If my aunt had balls, she would be my...
.







Coaches salaries certainly don't take up a large portion of the money but transportation and equipment do.

[MJF]

Well, let me see... 6 1/2 in class, 1/2 for lunch. Then 1 1/2 hour of exercise/pracitce after school and 6 football games. seems pretty balanced to me. The number of games simply needs to equal to the amount of money you need to finance the program. 6 football games must accommodate that because that is what they have. Softball must need more games to break even cause they have 12 I think. Etc. those are just 2 examples. They stopped having buses when my kids where in MS to save the money the county had to spend.

What kills me is its the same selfish attitude I have found from being involved with all these different programs... if you don't have a child involved in the activity you think it is worthless. I disagree and am aware that PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT and have different interests. They are all good to have but if you don't have the money... its the bottom line, you haved to illiminate the ones that cost the most and produce the least.. Im talking MONEY.

Does art bring in money? Im just saying those folks protesting about the cuts... wtf If you don't have the money you HAVE to have cuts. It is simple math. Folks can rant, protest and march but unless you can donate the money to keep these things a float, how are you going to PAY for it?

This post has been edited by MJF: 11 April 2010 - 11:22 AM

[overit]

Bizness, on 11 April 2010 - 10:41 AM, said:

it truly amazes me to see that some of the things to be discontinued to allow sports is always other clubs, i.e. the examples given FCA, History club...with that said, how about getting rid of the arts programs? I mean, they aren't necessary, right? No art class or club, no band, no chorus, no drama...and sense we see no need for these, how about we limit the academics to just half a day? Then we could use all the staff, teachers, etc...and they could just all join in and help with field maintenance, clean the concession stands, and so forth, and then they could help with training and do whatever the coaches wanted them too. Wow! What a system!

Ya think it would work? Then all the kids that wanted to do sports could...and they would only have to do a little with academics and it would be a better world, and.......

Ok, now that this has gotten a rise out of you, my point is this...although I realize and know how important a good sports program is I believe at the middle school level other things should be considered...I think that having a good/great sports program would be wonderful but I would prefer that these kids concentrate on getting prepared for the next level in their education...high school. Football will come... Let's prepare these kids for their academics on a higher level...let's get them ready to go on to college...let's help to teach them to read! to spell! and how about functioning in the real world?

Another thing to consider is that at the middle school level there are many common problems to face. A prerequisite to administering middle-school sports programs effectively is to be aware of these problems. Some of these problems are: the issue of 10-14 year olds predisposition to physical injury, the question of psychological readiness, the high attrition (sports drop out) rates, the question of proper coaching and, of course, the issues of liability.

And then there's the money thing.....since it's not 'funded' by the school (?), you've got to find the funding...i.e. (sigh) fundraisers, etc...

While I understand that there are parents out there with kids that have great expectations and high hopes for a future in sports, let's develop a good foundation of learning coupled with the possible future of 'sports' in their lives...and let's do that at the middle school level...what a great time to learn that while sports is their passion (or that of their parents) they need to learn academic skills, and learn how to 'balance' training, practicing, playing, with homework, in class work, and socialization. Also, concentrate on, that while it's wonderful and important, winning is not the only thing....learn to accept challenges and loss, victory and disappointment...

BEFORE YOU START SCREAMING AND HYPERVENTILATING, yes, I know that sports programs are frequently credited with promoting socialization skills, building character, helping with personality development and "preparing for adult life", but this is more at the high school level, where the children have matured more...the biggest question at the 10-14 years of age level is the readiness of children to cope (and cope successfully) with the pressures of experiencing instant success and failure, in very public ways, during sporting events. ...plus the burn out rate as a result of the pressure of middle school sports and not being ready for all that entails ends with a high drop out rate [participation in the sports program] for athletes at age 15.

All I am saying is this...have sports in the middle schools, but instead of worrying about how many games they play, or who they compete with, let's concentrate on combining those skills and life lessons with preparation for the next level by concentrating more on the basics...reading, writing, arithmetic....

OK, EVERYONE CAN BASH, YELL, AND SCREAM AT ME NOW.....

You have to have good grades to play sports! See, I solved your problem. On a serious note: I think you are the only one with your panties in a wad!