I happened to be looking for another quote ... Thomas Jefferson saying if given a choice of a government with no newspapers or no government with newspapers, he'd choose the latter ... I came across this quote from Teddy Roosevelt.
"If there is one thing we ought to be careful about, it is in regard to interfering with the liberty ofthe press. … I think it is a great deal better to err a little bit on the side of having too much discussion and having too virulent language used by the press, rather than to err on the side of having them not say what they ought to say, especially with reference to public men and measures.” Theodore Roosevelt [1858-1919]
Thought that it was good way to answer the criticism often leveled at us.
However, my absolute favorite comes from the statement of aims from the Chicago Times:
"It is a newspaper’s duty to print the news, and raise hell.” Wilbur StoreyStatement of the aims of the Chicago Times
These and several more comments regarding freedom of the press are contained in the attached PDF.
...snip...... I came across this quote from Teddy Roosevelt.
"If there is one thing we ought to be careful about, it is in regard to interfering with the liberty ofthe press. … I think it is a great deal better to err a little bit on the side of having too much discussion and having too virulent language used by the press, rather than to err on the side of having them not say what they ought to say, especially with reference to public men and measures.” Theodore Roosevelt [1858-1919]
Thought that it was good way to answer the criticism often leveled at us.
However, my absolute favorite comes from the statement of aims from the Chicago Times:
"It is a newspaper’s duty to print the news, and raise hell.” Wilbur StoreyStatement of the aims of the Chicago Times
...snip...
It is their duty to print the truth. Unfortunately, it is their directive to sell advertisements. From this, a business stratgey has evolved where it's necessary to incite controversy in order goad people into watching/reading. Nothing is news worthy that either is not already controversial, or slanted (without lying most of the time) to be controversial.
And one more thing: the more people the unabated Leftist reaches, the more good he does for the country. The last thing I'd want to do is clog the sewer by gagging the lefties. People need to be exposed to the stench and its source.
My opinions do not reflect a command of reasoning but instead, reflect that reason
Who are "us?" It is their duty to print the truth. Unfortunately, it is their directive to sell advertisements. From this, a business stratgey has evolved where it's necessary to incite controversy in order goad people into watching/reading. Nothing is news worthy that either is not already controversial, or slanted (without lying most of the time) to be controversial.
And one more thing: the more people the unabated Leftist reaches, the more good he does for the country. The last thing I'd want to do is clog the sewer by gagging the lefties. People need to be exposed to the stench and its source.
I love discussion I love debate I love me some pcom!
'It's me again, Margaret...
Hello, is this Margaret?
Margaret, I know it's you, Margaret
Are you naked?
And when I get out, Margaret
I'm going to come over there with an egg beater
And a live chicken, and some peach preserves!
We'll have a good old time, Marga
I do have one question for Pubby. What is new about the New Paulding.com? Other than a few more software do dads it sure seems pretty much the same to me. Am I missing something? I usually do.
MMMMkay. What do you do on a message board except discuss ? You are right on Smitty. While I hate the personal attacks and bigotry I have encountered in my surfing recently, it does serve to illuminate the idiots.
I *really* HOPE I DON'T HAVE TO SAY, " I TOLD YOU SO..."
Pcom tends to be much more liberal in the content it allows than some other sites, and I have said that on here before. I don't think that is being critical of Pcom, just making a statement of fact. I don't take exception to the site, but I do on occasion take exception to some people's comments, just as they do mine, I am sure.
We've had some in the business community in particular feel that we shouldn't let people 'say that' ... criticize the government, acknowledge that there is a meth problem or have the temerity to say that perfection does not exist in Paulding County Georgia.
They seem to be saying something on the order of this:
QUOTE
“Why should freedom of speech and freedom of the press be allowed? Why should a government which is doing what it believes to be right allow itself to be criticized? It would not allow opposition by lethal weapons. Ideas are much more fatal things than guns. Why should any man be allowed to buy a printing press and disseminate pernicious opinion calculated to embarrass the government?”
This quote obviously would make sense to a lot of folks. I mean those who say the press is treasonous certainy would harbor this notion and some may even be able to convince themselves that the press and the voice of the people should be silenced.
Indeed, that was exactly what the person who said that quote above.
And to answer Smitty's question of 'Who are us?" ... let me suggest the us in this case are those who believe that by engaging the community in a coversation and exposing the various points of view, we gain a greater understanding of the direction we should, as a community go. The one criticism I have of Smitty's point of view is his utter disdain of ideas that are different. Personally, while I have my opinions and I feel they are based on reason, study and intellect, I understand that others whose path in life gives them a different perspective, are due a reasonable degree of respect.
Indeed, it is that willingness to respect the views of others that allows for the formation of a civil society. Failure to accord basic respect for others and their points of view -- the my way or the highway attitude -- I find troubling on many levels as such an attitude is at its heart, the pinnacle of disrespect for others. That implies not just a conflict in ideas, but taken to its logical conclusion, will result in the breakdown of civil society.
I would much rather those who hold fast to their opinions recognize that for a society like ours to work, we must not just tolerate civil discourse, but accept that the notion that perfection not only eludes us all, but is ultimately unattainable. We may fight passionately for our opinions but at the end of the day, no one has a corner on truth and our survival depends on our ability to get along with others in our community.
pubby
PS: A mayberry to the first to identify the author of the quote recommending restrictions on the freedom of the press.
Who are "us?" It is their duty to print the truth. Unfortunately, it is their directive to sell advertisements. From this, a business stratgey has evolved where it's necessary to incite controversy in order goad people into watching/reading. Nothing is news worthy that either is not already controversial, or slanted (without lying most of the time) to be controversial.
And one more thing: the more people the unabated Leftist reaches, the more good he does for the country. The last thing I'd want to do is clog the sewer by gagging the lefties. People need to be exposed to the stench and its source.
Amazing. You do realize the subject of discussion is freedom of the press, right?
Irrelevant, and hardly what would normally be expected of someone interested in honest discussion or who is receptive to the thoughts and ideas of others.
"There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion". - Sir Francis Bacon
"The mystery of government is not how Washington works but how to make it stop". -P. J. O'Rourke
"The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced." ~Frank Zappa
"All persons ought to endeavor to follow what is right, and not what is established." -Aristotle
"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him." -Thomas Jefferson
"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority." -Noah Webster
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking". - AA Milne
Amazing. You do realize the subject of discussion is freedom of the press, right?
Irrelevant, and hardly what would normally be expected of someone interested in honest discussion or who is receptive to the thoughts and ideas of others.
Funny though. Isn't that exactly what the lefties are saying about the conservatives? Doesn't Pcom shut down threads that are informing the public of shady businesses or less than sanitary resturants? If we have free speech here shouldn't we be able to inform the public when they are being cheated or poisioned? Not if it cuts into profits, right? Isn't that the republican way.
Amazing. You do realize the subject of discussion is freedom of the press, right?
Irrelevant, and hardly what would normally be expected of someone interested in honest discussion or who is receptive to the thoughts and ideas of others.
I don't get your point...Have I been bad?
My opinions do not reflect a command of reasoning but instead, reflect that reason
Funny though. Isn't that exactly what the lefties are saying about the conservatives? Doesn't Pcom shut down threads that are informing the public of shady businesses or less than sanitary resturants? If we have free speech here shouldn't we be able to inform the public when they are being cheated or poisioned? Not if it cuts into profits, right? Isn't that the republican way.
Free speech is not completely free. The first Amendment is confined to political speech. Making specific allegations against businesses must be documented by facts. Blogging about one's political opinions, is different. Although I've seen restaurants ripped apart on pcom, some of the allegations were not based in fact, and their business was hurt. The point being, free speech is an inalienable right but one that needs to be used fairly.
...snip... The one criticism I have of Smitty's point of view is his utter disdain of ideas that are different. ...snip...
Strawman, pubby.
The truth is that I require a person's opinion TO MAKE SENSE before it matters. I don't buy into the everyone has an opinion, which implying that everyone's opinion matters. Like I've said before, if everyone's opinion matters in a discussion, then so does everyone's asshole matter.
And note that just because a lefty has the guts to explain his/her position doesn't mean that he/she passes the sensibility test.
Do you really not understand that? ...That debate runs on reason and not opinion?
My opinions do not reflect a command of reasoning but instead, reflect that reason
Funny though. Isn't that exactly what the lefties are saying about the conservatives? Doesn't Pcom shut down threads that are informing the public of shady businesses or less than sanitary resturants? If we have free speech here shouldn't we be able to inform the public when they are being cheated or poisioned? Not if it cuts into profits, right? Isn't that the republican way.
No we don't shut down topics that inform the public of shady business or less than sanitary restaurants.
we do have rules about how these topics are handled and some folks choose to ignore those rules.
Since it has arisen, lets be clear.
What we will tolerate are topics about shady businesses when the individual has: 1. not only complained but has filed a civil action in magistrate or superior court asserting the claim. 2. filed a formal complaint for fraud or other criminal activity against the business and obtained a police report we can review on that topic. 3. Makes a general reference and provides a link to another site where the actual complaint is made.
In all these cases we will not TOLERATE the posting of multiple topics making the same point or a concerted effort by the OP or others to simply 'bump' the topic. If it a topic of legitimate discussion, we will allow conversation on the topic. However, in our desire to protect our members, we will be cautious and may on our volition remove a topic or reply that, in our opinion, may skirt to close to defamation.
I should add that defamation has a different legal meaning for public office holders (politicians) than it does businesses in the public eye and private citizens who are the most protected by law from libel and slander.
As far as complaints about restaurants and businesses for that matter, the BIG RULE is that if the target of your complaint is a commerce member her, DO NOT POST YOUR COMPLAINT IN A TOPIC STARTED BY THEM. That will get you multiple bullets in short order and you may find yourself quickly suspended.
First, I would encourage you to contact the commerce member here by PM first and, if you think it will help, include me in your PM. Second, if all else fails, you may make your complaint in a topic started by you and depending on its tone and what background I have, I may let it continue as a topic of discussion, I may close it and let it remain visible or I may make it invisible. Those choices are soley at my discretion.
Comments on restaurants and their cleanliness do need to cite a health-department inspection and I don't think I've removed a one of them that includes a link to the health department inspections online.
The comment by an unknown anonymous individual (no history in the community) that is particulary venomous and is also not supported by facts may, for all I know, be an underhanded marketing effort by a competitor.
Further, a venomous post attacking anyone, whether a business or a person, immediately is suspect as defamation and is likely to be pulled. In contrast, a logically presented, low key post noting an issue (particularly if I've been given a heads up) tends to come across with the level of credibility that makes suits for libel or slander much more difficult to establish.
But no, we don't shut down topics because we want to keep the public in the dark about dangers of dealing with this or that business or person. We shut down topics that because of the hatred and emotion, are problematic in accomplishing the goal of informing others and put the poster and the site at risk of litigation.
I know that is a subtle point for you to grasp, Glassman, but in my world with its 1025 million shades of gray, it really is pretty distinct.
Further, a venomous post attacking anyone, whether a business or a person, immediately is suspect as defamation and is likely to be pulled. In contrast, a logically presented, low key post noting an issue (particularly if I've been given a heads up) tends to come across with the level of credibility that makes suits for libel or slander much more difficult to establish.
I know that is a subtle point for you to grasp, Glassman, but in my world with its 1025 million shades of gray, it really is pretty distinct.
pubby
So, it's really all about presentation and not necessarily the facts? I am sorry your world has so many shades of gray. Most things in life seems pretty damn clear to me.
The truth is that I require a person's opinion TO MAKE SENSE before it matters. I don't buy into the everyone has an opinion, which implying that everyone's opinion matters. Like I've said before, if everyone's opinion matters in a discussion, then so does everyone's asshole matter.
And note that just because a lefty has the guts to explain his/her position doesn't mean that he/she passes the sensibility test.
Do you really not understand that? ...That debate runs on reason and not opinion?
I disagree, discussion runs on opinion. Furthermore, reason is realtive to opinion.
I have a favorite quote ... coined it back in the 1980s ... it says "the genious of democracy is that it makes us responsible for each other whether we like it or not."
I'd be surprised if you share that opinion. Given the reason or logic you employ, any suggestion that society, in order to maintain its cohesiveness, should provide anything for an individual; particularly those who contribute so little (the poor), would fly in the face, not of your reason, but your opinion.
I disagree, discussion runs on opinion. Furthermore, reason is realtive to opinion.
I have a favorite quote ... coined it back in the 1980s ... it says "the genious of democracy is that it makes us responsible for each other whether we like it or not."
I'd be surprised if you share that opinion. Given the reason or logic you employ, any suggestion that society, in order to maintain its cohesiveness, should provide anything for an individual; particularly those who contribute so little (the poor), would fly in the face, not of your reason, but your opinion.
You ROCK Pubby. And does P.com, and all the wonderfully diverse OPINIONS and DISCUSSIONS we have here on P.com.
I say "PFFFFTTTTT!" to all those weenies out there who try to poo-poo the rest of us because we don't bow down to their intellectual superiority. HA! Must be lonely going through life so damn perfect. Blahhhh.
Keep on keeping on Pubby & P.Com!!!!
"The fool says in his heart: 'There is no God' (Psalm 14:1). There is, however, another type of fool, more dangerous and sure of himself, who says in his heart and proclaims to all the world: 'There is no God but mine'." ~Joseph Campbell
"Normal? Ha! There is no normal. There is only varying degrees of weird." ~ SoapMom, 2006
"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive." ~ Thomas Jefferson
You ROCK Pubby. And does P.com, and all the wonderfully diverse OPINIONS and DISCUSSIONS we have here on P.com.
I say "PFFFFTTTTT!" to all those weenies out there who try to poo-poo the rest of us because we don't bow down to their intellectual superiority. HA! Must be lonely going through life so damn perfect. Blahhhh.
Keep on keeping on Pubby & P.Com!!!!
LOL You Go Girl! :claps hands:
'It's me again, Margaret...
Hello, is this Margaret?
Margaret, I know it's you, Margaret
Are you naked?
And when I get out, Margaret
I'm going to come over there with an egg beater
And a live chicken, and some peach preserves!
We'll have a good old time, Marga
You ROCK Pubby. And does P.com, and all the wonderfully diverse OPINIONS and DISCUSSIONS we have here on P.com.
I say "PFFFFTTTTT!" to all those weenies out there who try to poo-poo the rest of us because we don't bow down to their intellectual superiority. HA! Must be lonely going through life so damn perfect. Blahhhh.
Keep on keeping on Pubby & P.Com!!!!
I agree, SoapMom. The discussions do show our diversity and do show the true intellect of the posters.
The comfort, the inexpressible comfort of feeling safe with a person; having neither to weigh thoughts nor measure words, but to pour them all out, just as they are, chaff and grain together, knowing that a faithful hand will take and sift them, keep what is worth keeping, and then, with a breath of kindness, blow the rest away.
---George Eliot
If I have earned your trust, then I am responsible for keeping that trust intact.
---JohnnyJ
Looks like I need a sharper stick these days. I just felt (and still feel) that all the digs everyone feels obligated to include in their posts toward those who hold an opposing view, including the comment I referred to, are for the most part irrelevant and tend to steer otherwise important discussions in the wrong direction. I've come to realize that the best way to avoid contributing to that misdirection is to simply disregard such off-handed comments that aren't germane to the topic of discussion whenever possible.
Uh oh. Have I posted outside the political forum? This will surely come back to haunt me someday.
"There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion". - Sir Francis Bacon
"The mystery of government is not how Washington works but how to make it stop". -P. J. O'Rourke
"The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced." ~Frank Zappa
"All persons ought to endeavor to follow what is right, and not what is established." -Aristotle
"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him." -Thomas Jefferson
"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority." -Noah Webster
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking". - AA Milne
Well, if that's in reply to my post, that's not at all what I was saying. I was referring to the unneccessary comments that are often included that are just derogatory slams against the "left" or the "right", etc.
I'm definitely not a proponent of censorship in any form.
"There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion". - Sir Francis Bacon
"The mystery of government is not how Washington works but how to make it stop". -P. J. O'Rourke
"The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced." ~Frank Zappa
"All persons ought to endeavor to follow what is right, and not what is established." -Aristotle
"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him." -Thomas Jefferson
"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority." -Noah Webster
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking". - AA Milne
Looks like I need a sharper stick these days. I just felt (and still feel) that all the digs everyone feels obligated to include in their posts toward those who hold an opposing view, including the comment I referred to, are for the most part irrelevant and tend to steer otherwise important discussions in the wrong direction. I've come to realize that the best way to avoid contributing to that misdirection is to simply disregard such off-handed comments that aren't germane to the topic of discussion whenever possible.
Uh oh. Have I posted outside the political forum? This will surely come back to haunt me someday.
Speaking of "germane", I liked the Jacksons too.... Emily
I think that's Jermaine....but I did have to check the spelling before I posted that.
For Rev - back atcha
"There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion". - Sir Francis Bacon
"The mystery of government is not how Washington works but how to make it stop". -P. J. O'Rourke
"The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced." ~Frank Zappa
"All persons ought to endeavor to follow what is right, and not what is established." -Aristotle
"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him." -Thomas Jefferson
"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority." -Noah Webster
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking". - AA Milne
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HA! Must be lonely going through life so damn perfect. Blahhhh. 
